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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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Wasn't it established that Jake thought something more was going on with the case?
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shippersdreamer wrote:
Wasn't it established that Jake thought something more was going on with the case?


Yeah, at the trial of Joe Darke.

Spoiler: Blood Missing
In 1-5, how come there is no blood reaction with Luminol when you spray it all over the stupid suit of armor and its piercing schlong spear? After all, Neil Marshall was impaled on it. There's overall no hint of blood on Gant's side of the office.


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CatMuto wrote:
Spoiler: Blood Missing
In 1-5, how come there is no blood reaction with Luminol when you spray it all over the stupid suit of armor and its piercing schlong spear? After all, Neil Marshall was impaled on it. There's overall no hint of blood on Gant's side of the office.

Spoiler: We're discussing contradictions in the plot, why is this thread not tagged for spoilers?
Of course there's no blood on the spear. Neil was impaled on a sword.
It was cleaned up. Yes, it's possible.

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@sumguy:
Spoiler: Except that...
...the whole point of luminol is to reveal blood that has been cleaned up. That's exactly what it does. ;)
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Pessimistic_Fool wrote:
@sumguy:
Spoiler: Except that...
...the whole point of luminol is to reveal blood that has been cleaned up. That's exactly what it does. ;)

Spoiler:
Did you look at the link?
it wrote:
A murderer can dispose of the victim's body and mop up the pools of blood, but without some heavy-duty cleaning chemicals, some evidence will remain.

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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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sumguy28 wrote:
Pessimistic_Fool wrote:
@sumguy:
Spoiler: Except that...
...the whole point of luminol is to reveal blood that has been cleaned up. That's exactly what it does. ;)

Spoiler:
Did you look at the link?
it wrote:
A murderer can dispose of the victim's body and mop up the pools of blood, but without some heavy-duty cleaning chemicals, some evidence will remain.


Question, this heavy duty chemical... wouldn't it STINK? And that stained glass thing didn't look like it would open (unless, as Phoenix himself said so nicely Gumshoe someone would throw their bodies through it)

Then again, I pointed out some of the larger problems I had with the last part of 1-5 in the vent thread... but I will ask here again. Why did Lana think Ema was the murderer? She says it was too dark to really see what was written on the jar. So there's no way she could've really read "Ema" on it. Especially since the Jar was in shards at that point, so even less chance of reading anything on that. And... what the hell? If I come across a scene of a dead guy, a known murderer and my sister, the latter two uncocious, my money would be on the known murderer at first.

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Some bleach would do the job. It would stink for a day but nobody would think much of it. Gant had two years to clean it up. I doubt he did it on the day of the murder

As for your second question, maybe she inspected the room with a flashlight? And she probably still had a little light to go by to see the message. I actually remember first playing the case and being confused as to why Neil would write the message. A little girl accidentally pushes him over so he decides to implicate her of murder? What an asshole. Yes, I know Gant wrote the message
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But if she had had a flashlight on her, she could've read or semi-made out what the jar shards might've said. And again, it's overall weird to encounter your unconscious sister and a known murderer in a room with a dead person. I don't think your mind would immediately tell you that your sister was the one who committed murder.

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CatMuto wrote:
Then again, I pointed out some of the larger problems I had with the last part of 1-5 in the vent thread... but I will ask here again. Why did Lana think Ema was the murderer? She says it was too dark to really see what was written on the jar. So there's no way she could've really read "Ema" on it. Especially since the Jar was in shards at that point, so even less chance of reading anything on that. And... what the hell? If I come across a scene of a dead guy, a known murderer and my sister, the latter two uncocious, my money would be on the known murderer at first.

C-A

I was expecting this to come up.
First of all, did you really think that Lana was telling the whole truth when she said, "it was dark in the room and I didn't have time to check it out"? At this point she was still lying to protect Ema. Hell, she even said "I always carry a pocket light and a camera with me." How would she have not noticed it?
Second, have you ever thought about the method of murder and the position of the bodies upon discovery? If you walked in, you saw a dead guy impaled on a sword, your sister in front of the body, and a known murderer off to the side, the latter two uncocious unconscious, you can't exactly dismiss the possibility that your sister did it. And no, Lana never said anything that amounts to "I looked at the room and instantly suspected my sister".
Third, how exactly do you interpret this:
Image
as anything but "EMA"? That's why she wiped the blood off. And that blood was on two fragments. It wouldn't have been that hard to notice it.

And while we're talking about stupid actions between sisters, Serah full well admitted to herself and Snow that she was "a l'Cie, enemy of Cocoon"; that's why she tried to break up with him. She had no reason to not take off the bandage, and Lightning's flashback within the flashback showed Snow holding Serah with her bandage off. So I find it difficult to believe that Serah "didn't quite want to believe it herself yet."
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sumguy28 wrote:
Third, how exactly do you interpret this:
Image
as anything but "EMA"? That's why she wiped the blood off. And that blood was on two fragments. It wouldn't have been that hard to notice it.

And while we're talking about stupid actions between sisters, Serah full well admitted to herself and Snow that she was "a l'Cie, enemy of Cocoon"; that's why she tried to break up with him. She had no reason to not take off the bandage, and Lightning's flashback within the flashback showed Snow holding Serah with her bandage off. So I find it difficult to believe that Serah "didn't quite want to believe it herself yet."


First of all, to me that looks like ETA, but that's beside the point.
Second, I kept reading that the jar was "in shards" when Lana entered the room. To me, that means several shards, not just ONE broken piece off of the entire jar. If that was how it was, and what she meant and said, they should've translated it better.

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CatMuto wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:
Third, how exactly do you interpret this:
Image
as anything but "EMA"? That's why she wiped the blood off. And that blood was on two fragments. It wouldn't have been that hard to notice it.

And while we're talking about stupid actions between sisters, Serah full well admitted to herself and Snow that she was "a l'Cie, enemy of Cocoon"; that's why she tried to break up with him. She had no reason to not take off the bandage, and Lightning's flashback within the flashback showed Snow holding Serah with her bandage off. So I find it difficult to believe that Serah "didn't quite want to believe it herself yet."


First of all, to me that looks like ETA, but that's beside the point.
Second, I kept reading that the jar was "in shards" when Lana entered the room. To me, that means several shards, not just ONE broken piece off of the entire jar. If that was how it was, and what she meant and said, they should've translated it better.

C-A

I said there was blood on two fragments. It's not that hard to put two shards of a jar with blood on them together.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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How did Grossberg find out about Misty's involvement in DL-6? Even if Hammond, the defense attorney on the case, told him, that raises the question of how Hammond found out. If he was the prosecutor, then sure, that makes sense, since it was the police who requested the channeling, but he was the defense attorney. And if Hammond did know about it, you'd think he would've brought up the highly questionable actions of the police. "The only reason the prosecution believes that my client killed the victim is because the police used a spirit medium who claims to have contacted the deceased!" Seems like that would have worked wonders for Yogi's case...
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I think the channeling was done in-court? At least, the flashbacks made it sound like that...

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The channeling wasn't done in court and I'm assuming Grossberg knew because Mia told him

Did they ever explain why Gregory said the killer was Yogi? I know he was unconscious, but did he assume Yogi was the killer or did he think it was Miles but he accused Yogi to avert suspicion
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Did they ever explain why Gregory said the killer was Yogi? I know he was unconscious, but did he assume Yogi was the killer or did he think it was Miles but he accused Yogi to avert suspicion

von Karma: In his last moments, Gregory Edgeworth was still unconscious.
He died, never knowing who had shot him.
Later, he spoke through a medium, blaming Mr. Yogi.
He was fooled!
It was the perfect crime!

perfect my ass
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JesusMonroe wrote:
The channeling wasn't done in court and I'm assuming Grossberg knew because Mia told him


Mia was still a child when Grossberg sold out Misty; the only reason she worked for him or ever came in contact with him was because he betrayed her. Mia only left Kurain Village after Misty had already disappeared.
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Well, Hammond worked for Grossberg, maybe he witnessed the channeling? Or he found out about the channeling and simply talked to Grossberg about it.

Case 2-1 About the phonecalls

According to Maya, she called you - Phoenix/his cellphone - dozens of times. Since the big twist is that the killer has Phoenix' cellphone and it was turned on since the call during the trial went through, I fail to see how he didn't notice earlier. After all, simply deleting the numbers off of a phone doesn't mean nobody can call said phone anymore. So, if Maya called dozens of times, shouldn't the killer have noticed much earlier that he had the wrong phone?

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CatMuto wrote:
Well, Hammond worked for Grossberg, maybe he witnessed the channeling? Or he found out about the channeling and simply talked to Grossberg about it.

Case 2-1 About the phonecalls

According to Maya, she called you - Phoenix/his cellphone - dozens of times. Since the big twist is that the killer has Phoenix' cellphone and it was turned on since the call during the trial went through, I fail to see how he didn't notice earlier. After all, simply deleting the numbers off of a phone doesn't mean nobody can call said phone anymore. So, if Maya called dozens of times, shouldn't the killer have noticed much earlier that he had the wrong phone?

C-A

He may have been more pre-occupied with the fact that he had to prepare a lie on the stand and go through a cross-ex.
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You'd still think a nervous guy like him would notice the phone that's maybe in his pocket (or whever he kept it on his person), with a ringtone he doesn't know, going off again and again.

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Case: 2-4
Name: Mislabeled Evidence
Evidence: That fucking Knife!

Spoiler: Case 2-4, Trial Day 1
Okay, we first see a photo of the crime scene and it looks like Juan Corrida was killed by stabbing him in the chest. During the briefing with Gumshoe, though, we learn that the cause of death was strangulation and that the knife was put in post-mortem.
...and yet they continue to call the fucking knife the Murder Weapon! Again and again, they called that fucking thing the Murder Weapon. Did you not listen to Gumshoe, Judge!? CoD was STRANGULATION. With the bandana (technically a neckerchief, whatever). NOT the FUCKING KNIFE.
How come nobody seems to think, "Well that's stupid, why stab him with a knife when he already strangled him? What, he wants to kill him more?" Everybody keeps going on that the knife is the murder weapon when ti isn't. Who fucking wrote this case!?


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CatMuto wrote:
Well, Hammond worked for Grossberg, maybe he witnessed the channeling? Or he found out about the channeling and simply talked to Grossberg about it.


I don't see how Hammond, the defense attorney, would've been present for the channeling, which was requested by the police. The prosecutor, maybe, but the defense attorney? And even if Hammond did somehow find out about it, why didn't he bring up that angle in court?
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Superfield wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Well, Hammond worked for Grossberg, maybe he witnessed the channeling? Or he found out about the channeling and simply talked to Grossberg about it.


I don't see how Hammond, the defense attorney, would've been present for the channeling, which was requested by the police. The prosecutor, maybe, but the defense attorney? And even if Hammond did somehow find out about it, why didn't he bring up that angle in court?


"I demand an acquittal of my client due to mental incapatiation. Furthermore, we have prove of the police using a medium to channel the spirit of the dead victi-what are you doing with that strait jacket?"

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Case 1-5
Problem Inconsistencies and contradictions about SL-9 EVERYWHERE!

They were working on the SL-9/Joe Darke Killings case and say they had no evidence. Then suddenly they had evidence on him, but not enough to hold him. They became desperate for evidence. Oopsie, suddenly they had a ton of evidence, but half of it went missing - how the hell can they be missing evidence if they had no evidence to begin with?

Joe Darke's killings and investigation apparently took 6 months, but when they recount what the killings consisted of, it sounded like he killed them all within a span of a few hours - car accident, wittnes, murder witness, murder witness, jogger who finds him trying to bury bodies - so then he decided to stay out of place for 6 months? What?

Eventually they had the evidence to call him in and he came. Nope, Joe Darke came in on his own free will... after apparently six months of not having been traced at all for the murders he committed. (Well, 4 murders + 1 fatal accident) By the way, when Joe Darke ran away from interrogation - which, again, he totally came to on his own free will - he burst into Gant's office-Oh wait, NO, turns out Ema heard noise and opened the door and that's when he just... pushed himself inside when he saw her, I guess.

Oh and don't forget that Edgeworth says that, before Neil Marshall was killed, they were desperate for evidence on Joe Darke... Edgeworth says about a case when he wasn't the damn prosecutor at that case! AND Jake became obsessed with finding Joe Darke after his brother was killed... which makes no sense since Joe Darke was already caught and SL-9 was hastily "closed" AFTER Neil died. By the way, Neil's death is what made Lana such a cold ice-queen bitch, but she was still a totally warm person who comforted Jake over his brother's death, although she was supposedly such a cold bitch...

Who wrote this damn case?

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About time.
CatMuto wrote:
They were working on the SL-9/Joe Darke Killings case and say they had no evidence. Then suddenly they had evidence on him, but not enough to hold him. They became desperate for evidence. Oopsie, suddenly they had a ton of evidence, but half of it went missing - how the hell can they be missing evidence if they had no evidence to begin with?

The evidence they found was the evidence after Neil died. How many times must I repeat this before you get it in your thick skull?
CatMuto wrote:
Joe Darke's killings and investigation apparently took 6 months, but when they recount what the killings consisted of, it sounded like he killed them all within a span of a few hours - car accident, wittnes, murder witness, murder witness, jogger who finds him trying to bury bodies - so then he decided to stay out of place for 6 months? What?

Eventually they had the evidence to call him in and he came. Nope, Joe Darke came in on his own free will... after apparently six months of not having been traced at all for the murders he committed. (Well, 4 murders + 1 fatal accident) By the way, when Joe Darke ran away from interrogation - which, again, he totally came to on his own free will - he burst into Gant's office-Oh wait, NO, turns out Ema heard noise and opened the door and that's when he just... pushed himself inside when he saw her, I guess.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make here.
CatMuto wrote:
Oh and don't forget that Edgeworth says that, before Neil Marshall was killed, they were desperate for evidence on Joe Darke... Edgeworth says about a case when he wasn't the damn prosecutor at that case! AND Jake became obsessed with finding Joe Darke after his brother was killed... which makes no sense since Joe Darke was already caught and SL-9 was hastily "closed" AFTER Neil died. By the way, Neil's death is what made Lana such a cold ice-queen bitch, but she was still a totally warm person who comforted Jake over his brother's death, although she was supposedly such a cold bitch...

I can't forget because everything you said is just a bunch of assumptions without any ground to stand on. Jake became obsessed with the case because of the inconsistencies that were glossed over during the investigation, leading him to believe that something was covered up. And never was it said that Lana comforted Jake over his brother's death. You played this case recently, so I'm assuming you have evidence to back up your bluffs, seeing how you're complaining about this again.

"Ice-queen bitch"? What a perfect description for Lightning Farron. Now if only she acted as a parental substitute for her younger sister after their parents died, made an ill-informed decision which only served to alienate her sister from her, experienced character development akin to the typical defrosting ice queen, and reconciled with her sister in a manner of "I'm sorry." "It's okay" *hug*
Wait...

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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Who wrote this damn case?

Shu Takumi, of course. It's possible he had help from a different scenario team, but I doubt it. It was the art department for this case that had a change of directors.

sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Joe Darke's killings and investigation apparently took 6 months, but when they recount what the killings consisted of, it sounded like he killed them all within a span of a few hours - car accident, wittnes, murder witness, murder witness, jogger who finds him trying to bury bodies - so then he decided to stay out of place for 6 months? What?

Eventually they had the evidence to call him in and he came. Nope, Joe Darke came in on his own free will... after apparently six months of not having been traced at all for the murders he committed. (Well, 4 murders + 1 fatal accident) By the way, when Joe Darke ran away from interrogation - which, again, he totally came to on his own free will - he burst into Gant's office-Oh wait, NO, turns out Ema heard noise and opened the door and that's when he just... pushed himself inside when he saw her, I guess.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make here.

I think she's mistaking the context of some of the stuff she read.

Cat, if investigations took six months, there could have been a number of reasons not mentioned. He was a wealthy businessman with presumably plenty of backup; he could easily have avoided interrogation for a long time, so the investigation would stall.
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Quote:
The evidence they found was the evidence after Neil died. How many times must I repeat this before you get it in your thick skull?


But they talk of having evidence BEFORE Neil died. Shortly after mentioning they never had evidence.
Also, they had ONE KNIFE and some Jar shards. That is not enough to merit a long evidence list, let alone a second half with supposedly "removed" evidence.

Quote:
Cat, if investigations took six months, there could have been a number of reasons not mentioned. He was a wealthy businessman with presumably plenty of backup; he could easily have avoided interrogation for a long time, so the investigation would stall.


But if he repeatedly killed people who saw his previous crime and buried them, along with the jogger, how did they know people were killed? Did he not bury them after all? Was there any evidence that pointed towards him, leading them to call it Joe Darke killings?

And here, snippets of talking to Angel shortly before the last Trial day.
"That's why she was so concerned for Jake. When Jake's brother was murdered, she felt as if she had lost her own brother. If it wasn't for her, I don't think Jake would ever have recovered from his shock."
"That's what makes it all the more infuriating. That's why...I'll never be able to forgive her. Why did she have to turn so cold after that...?"
And that referring to Neil's murder.

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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
The evidence they found was the evidence after Neil died. How many times must I repeat this before you get it in your thick skull?


But they talk of having evidence BEFORE Neil died. Shortly after mentioning they never had evidence.
Also, they had ONE KNIFE and some Jar shards. That is not enough to merit a long evidence list, let alone a second half with supposedly "removed" evidence.
I request a quote. And they only had one knife and some jar shards because the rest of the evidence was removed.
CatMuto wrote:
But if he repeatedly killed people who saw his previous crime and buried them, along with the jogger, how did they know people were killed? Did he not bury them after all? Was there any evidence that pointed towards him, leading them to call it Joe Darke killings?

Remember when I said this:
Quote:
Well, if you hit someone with a car while driving fast enough, that would leave a dent, wouldn't it? Leading to a convenient auto-repair afterwards, which would have records of it. Of course, that's hardly decisive evidence, but that would be the only lead the investigation team had. The "items that disappeared" would be the evidence they found after Neil was killed.
You could at least acknowledge that I made a counterargument. And the case wasn't known as "the Joe Darke killings" until after the trial ended, when the information was released to the media.
CatMuto wrote:
And here, snippets of talking to Angel shortly before the last Trial day.
"That's why she was so concerned for Jake. When Jake's brother was murdered, she felt as if she had lost her own brother. If it wasn't for her, I don't think Jake would ever have recovered from his shock."
"That's what makes it all the more infuriating. That's why...I'll never be able to forgive her. Why did she have to turn so cold after that...?"
And that referring to Neil's murder.

At least now you're giving evidence. Well here's the only thing something you learn in College Writing. When you examine a text, you have to keep interpreting it until it works. She resisted turning cold only until after 1. Jake could pick himself up, and 2. after Ema had recovered from her acute stress disorder (it's like PTSD, but lasts less than 30 days).
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Quote:
I request a quote. And they only had one knife and some jar shards because the rest of the evidence was removed.


Well then, I demand to know what the OTHER evidence is that they supposedly had that got removed. Cause if it was removed, it wouldn't be found in Goodman's locker. Remember that stupid glove that had the SL-9 tag on it? What was the point of that? That was never mentioned to be actually important to the case - yes, it was there to be an insulator for that stupid makes-no-sense locker - but it seems to serve no purpose for SL-9 itself.
And again. Even according to Lana, the only damn evidence in the office where Neil died were the stupid shards (minus 1 that she didn't know about) and the damn switchblade knife. What other evidence could possibly have been there that had been removed?

Quote:
Well, if you hit someone with a car while driving fast enough, that would leave a dent, wouldn't it? Leading to a convenient auto-repair afterwards, which would have records of it. Of course, that's hardly decisive evidence, but that would be the only lead the investigation team had. The "items that disappeared" would be the evidence they found after Neil was killed.


Well if Joe Darke was such a great, high businessman and what not, able to refuse being interrogated for 6 months, you'd THINK he could get his car repaired and then bribe someone to keep their damn mouth shut. So really, there is a chance that there would be no record.

And don't even get me started on the complete stupid PARADOX that is Meekins running around after supposedly having murdered someone AND where exactly he woke up. (was it in the Detention Center as he first said, or was it by someone IN the evidence room shortly after the "attack", as he says on the witness stand?)

And who the hell can clean up that pool of blood from the actual murder within 20 minutes? Or did people think that Meekins attacked Goodman, with blood evidence, and then there was no actual blood found at the scene and he cleaned it up in his comatose state?

AND WHY THE HELL DID JAKE THINK DRESSING UP AS GOODMAN ON CAMERA WAS A GOOD IDEA WHEN HE KNEW GOODMAN WAS DEAD AT THAT POINT? Look, whoever wrote this thing - be it Takumi or whatever - they need to learn some damn consistency.

C-A

PS: Wow, someone thinks ice-queen explains Light's entire character. Obviously, you never played the later sections of XIII where you notice her warming up.
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
I request a quote. And they only had one knife and some jar shards because the rest of the evidence was removed.


Well then, I demand to know what the OTHER evidence is that they supposedly had that got removed. Cause if it was removed, it wouldn't be found in Goodman's locker. Remember that stupid glove that had the SL-9 tag on it? What was the point of that? That was never mentioned to be actually important to the case - yes, it was there to be an insulator for that stupid makes-no-sense locker - but it seems to serve no purpose for SL-9 itself.
And again. Even according to Lana, the only damn evidence in the office where Neil died were the stupid shards (minus 1 that she didn't know about) and the damn switchblade knife. What other evidence could possibly have been there that had been removed?

Quote:
Well, if you hit someone with a car while driving fast enough, that would leave a dent, wouldn't it? Leading to a convenient auto-repair afterwards, which would have records of it. Of course, that's hardly decisive evidence, but that would be the only lead the investigation team had. The "items that disappeared" would be the evidence they found after Neil was killed.


Well if Joe Darke was such a great, high businessman and what not, able to refuse being interrogated for 6 months, you'd THINK he could get his car repaired and then bribe someone to keep their damn mouth shut. So really, there is a chance that there would be no record.

And don't even get me started on the complete stupid PARADOX that is Meekins running around after supposedly having murdered someone AND where exactly he woke up. (was it in the Detention Center as he first said, or was it by someone IN the evidence room shortly after the "attack", as he says on the witness stand?)

And who the hell can clean up that pool of blood from the actual murder within 20 minutes? Or did people think that Meekins attacked Goodman, with blood evidence, and then there was no actual blood found at the scene and he cleaned it up in his comatose state?

AND WHY THE HELL DID JAKE THINK DRESSING UP AS GOODMAN ON CAMERA WAS A GOOD IDEA WHEN HE KNEW GOODMAN WAS DEAD AT THAT POINT? Look, whoever wrote this thing - be it Takumi or whatever - they need to learn some damn consistency.

C-A

PS: Wow, someone thinks ice-queen explains Light's entire character. Obviously, you never played the later sections of XIII where you notice her warming up.


Sorry for butting in like this but when did Jake figure out Goodman was dead? Wasn't he impersonating him so it wouldn't look suspicious if he was getting evidence from SL-9?
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
I request a quote. And they only had one knife and some jar shards because the rest of the evidence was removed.


Well then, I demand to know what the OTHER evidence is that they supposedly had that got removed. Cause if it was removed, it wouldn't be found in Goodman's locker. Remember that stupid glove that had the SL-9 tag on it? What was the point of that? That was never mentioned to be actually important to the case - yes, it was there to be an insulator for that stupid makes-no-sense locker - but it seems to serve no purpose for SL-9 itself.
And again. Even according to Lana, the only damn evidence in the office where Neil died were the stupid shards (minus 1 that she didn't know about) and the damn switchblade knife. What other evidence could possibly have been there that had been removed?

Quote:
Well, if you hit someone with a car while driving fast enough, that would leave a dent, wouldn't it? Leading to a convenient auto-repair afterwards, which would have records of it. Of course, that's hardly decisive evidence, but that would be the only lead the investigation team had. The "items that disappeared" would be the evidence they found after Neil was killed.


Well if Joe Darke was such a great, high businessman and what not, able to refuse being interrogated for 6 months, you'd THINK he could get his car repaired and then bribe someone to keep their damn mouth shut. So really, there is a chance that there would be no record.

And don't even get me started on the complete stupid PARADOX that is Meekins running around after supposedly having murdered someone AND where exactly he woke up. (was it in the Detention Center as he first said, or was it by someone IN the evidence room shortly after the "attack", as he says on the witness stand?)

And who the hell can clean up that pool of blood from the actual murder within 20 minutes? Or did people think that Meekins attacked Goodman, with blood evidence, and then there was no actual blood found at the scene and he cleaned it up in his comatose state?

AND WHY THE HELL DID JAKE THINK DRESSING UP AS GOODMAN ON CAMERA WAS A GOOD IDEA WHEN HE KNEW GOODMAN WAS DEAD AT THAT POINT? Look, whoever wrote this thing - be it Takumi or whatever - they need to learn some damn consistency.

C-A

PS: Wow, someone thinks ice-queen explains Light's entire character. Obviously, you never played the later sections of XIII where you notice her warming up.

Jake didn't know Goodman was dead. Right? :ron: I honestly don't remember much from this case.
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Klonoahedgehog wrote:
Jake didn't know Goodman was dead. Right? :ron: I honestly don't remember much from this case.


He did. When talking to Lana in the Detention Center, after finding the Strip of Cloth and Ema being pulled in by Gant for questioning, Lana reveals that she called Marshall before she called Ema. And Lana told him that Goodman was dead. Which is when Marshall decided to go through with his plan of going into the evidence room with Goodman's ID and get the SL-9 Stuff.

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
Well, if you hit someone with a car while driving fast enough, that would leave a dent, wouldn't it? Leading to a convenient auto-repair afterwards, which would have records of it. Of course, that's hardly decisive evidence, but that would be the only lead the investigation team had. The "items that disappeared" would be the evidence they found after Neil was killed.


Well if Joe Darke was such a great, high businessman and what not, able to refuse being interrogated for 6 months, you'd THINK he could get his car repaired and then bribe someone to keep their damn mouth shut. So really, there is a chance that there would be no record.

Except he wasn't such a great, high businessman. Dammit, Rubia!
Quote:
Gumshoe: He was just your run-of-the-mill businessman.

And if investigation team had tried to accuse him of the murder during those six months, Darke would have gotten off scot-free due to lack of evidence.
Quote:
And don't even get me started on the complete stupid PARADOX that is Meekins running around after supposedly having murdered someone AND where exactly he woke up. (was it in the Detention Center as he first said, or was it by someone IN the evidence room shortly after the "attack", as he says on the witness stand?)

It's Meekins. He's the physical manifestation of everything wrong with the police department in this series.
Quote:
And who the hell can clean up that pool of blood from the actual murder within 20 minutes? Or did people think that Meekins attacked Goodman, with blood evidence, and then there was no actual blood found at the scene and he cleaned it up in his comatose state?

You mean the same police department that thought that a broken samurai spear prop could be used as a murder weapon? The police that assumed that a man who broke his neck left a dying message? The police who arrest people with a philosophy of "we can't trust anything the suspect says, even if the only evidence we have against the suspect is entirely circumstantial"? By now, I'd think you'd realize that the police just don't give a damn about finding the truth.
Quote:
AND WHY THE HELL DID JAKE THINK DRESSING UP AS GOODMAN ON CAMERA WAS A GOOD IDEA WHEN HE KNEW GOODMAN WAS DEAD AT THAT POINT?

So what? He should just go in, not dressed as Goodman?
CatMuto wrote:
PS: Wow, someone thinks ice-queen explains Light's entire character. Obviously, you never played the later sections of XIII where you notice her warming up.

I said defrosting Ice queen. And that's a trope that's been done to death. So who in their right mind would think it would be a good idea to make a defrosting ice queen a protagonist? Even if she's not annoying like Tidus, Lightning is a boring character.
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Quote:
It's Meekins. He's the physical manifestation of everything wrong with the police department in this series.


I am absolutely willing to overlook the idiocy of Meekins demanding to see somebody's ID in a room where you can't get into unless you have a law enforcement Identification Card. But allowing him to wander around after having supposedly murdered someone, said 'murder' being caught on tape (although the tape shows nothing, especially since we hear there was no goddamn BODY - I guess he teleported that away in his coma, too?), and then allowing him to deliver his own 'murder file' to the investigating prosecutor?

That is not just manifestion of everything wrong with the AA-verse's police department, I don't think they'd usually be that dumb, and it's not even a funny "Look at meeee~ I'm so whackyyyy~" type of character. That is just plain BAD. WRITING.

Quote:
You mean the same police department that thought that a broken samurai spear prop could be used as a murder weapon? The police that assumed that a man who broke his neck left a dying message? The police who arrest people with a philosophy of "we can't trust anything the suspect says, even if the only evidence we have against the suspect is entirely circumstantial"? By now, I'd think you'd realize that the police just don't give a damn about finding the truth.


1) the Spear COULD'VE been used if it was still broken. Just cause Oldbag says she taped it together doesn't mean it would hold. So technically, yeah, even Cody could've stabbed with it. Overall, you can stab with a broken Spear, if you hold it above the break and put all your force behind that.
2) That was stupid, but that thing with Meekins is dumber.
3) Oh please, the entire reason the MURDERER is caught by Phoenix is because of circumstantial evidence. If they kept their mouth shut and didn't confess, they probably would get off scot-free. So really, this is a problem on Phoenix' side, too, not just the police's.
4) But they have such a Deep And Thrusting Bond Of Trust with the Prosecutors! ('ccording to Gumshoe the poor deprived boy)

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
Cat, if investigations took six months, there could have been a number of reasons not mentioned. He was a wealthy businessman with presumably plenty of backup; he could easily have avoided interrogation for a long time, so the investigation would stall.


But if he repeatedly killed people who saw his previous crime and buried them, along with the jogger, how did they know people were killed? Did he not bury them after all? Was there any evidence that pointed towards him, leading them to call it Joe Darke killings?

Well, the script said he buried them. It didn't say where or when or how he buried them or if he had any help, but that he just did. Maybe the cemetery groundskeeper who he tried to bribe ratted him out anyway.

I also found it odd that they suddenly obtained some evidence pointing to him, so they could interrogate him in the first place. Still, the investigations went on nonstop for 6 months; there's bound to be something, especially that the precinct's "best" detective team was on the case. I always figured that one of them ended up stalking Darke for 6 months and somehow found something obscure that was apparently enough to suspect him.

sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
Well, if you hit someone with a car while driving fast enough, that would leave a dent, wouldn't it? Leading to a convenient auto-repair afterwards, which would have records of it. Of course, that's hardly decisive evidence, but that would be the only lead the investigation team had. The "items that disappeared" would be the evidence they found after Neil was killed.


Well if Joe Darke was such a great, high businessman and what not, able to refuse being interrogated for 6 months, you'd THINK he could get his car repaired and then bribe someone to keep their damn mouth shut. So really, there is a chance that there would be no record.

Except he wasn't such a great, high businessman. Dammit, Rubia!

I am accountable for nothing! Nothing, I say! ...Ok, maybe something...
Quote:
Quote:
Gumshoe: He was just your run-of-the-mill businessman.

And if investigation team had tried to accuse him of the murder during those six months, Darke would have gotten off scot-free due to lack of evidence.

Honestly, I don't usually take what Gumshoe tells me unless it's obvious - as in, someone more trustworthy says the same thing or there's direct evidence to suggest it.

Quote:
By now, I'd think you'd realize that the police just don't give a damn about finding the truth.

Aw, don't say that about Gumshoe and his buddies. Of course they care. They just need someone like Phoenix to barge in on their investigations and rub them the wrong way by finding evidence they themselves could have found. Works every time too.
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CatMuto wrote:
the Spear COULD'VE been used if it was still broken. Just cause Oldbag says she taped it together doesn't mean it would hold. So technically, yeah, even Cody could've stabbed with it. Overall, you can stab with a broken Spear, if you hold it above the break and put all your force behind that.

That spear was a PROP fixed with duct tape. Or are you telling me that Global Studios used a real spear for filming? In which case, why the hell were they using a real spear for filming?

You want bad writing? Fal'Cie can speak English, yet they give a vision that was made to be as vague as possible for their l'Cie to follow. Hello? If you want me to do something, ACTUALLY TELL ME WHAT IT IS INSTEAD OF GIVING ME THE MOST VAGUE VISION POSSIBLE!
Hope's rage against Snow? It's been done in FFIV with Cecil and Rydia, and there, it didn't overstay its welcome.
And that "twist" at the end? That's nothing more than an Ass Pull that should have killed everyone on Cocoon, but they all somehow survived being encased in crystal.

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sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
the Spear COULD'VE been used if it was still broken. Just cause Oldbag says she taped it together doesn't mean it would hold. So technically, yeah, even Cody could've stabbed with it. Overall, you can stab with a broken Spear, if you hold it above the break and put all your force behind that.

That spear was a PROP fixed with duct tape. Or are you telling me that Global Studios used a real spear for filming? In which case, why the hell were they using a real spear for filming?


It's the AA-verse. They think that shooting with one hand, wiping your prints and then proceeding to hold the gun in your other hand is actually a legitimate explanation for the 'wrong' hand prints on the gun.

Also, why the hell can't I object to Ema's drawing, saying that it's obviously wrong from the start cause the polygon person A was preparing to stab polygon person B in the front. (Also, she says she fainted before the actual murder, why does she also say she saw the very moment of the murder?)

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
the Spear COULD'VE been used if it was still broken. Just cause Oldbag says she taped it together doesn't mean it would hold. So technically, yeah, even Cody could've stabbed with it. Overall, you can stab with a broken Spear, if you hold it above the break and put all your force behind that.

That spear was a PROP fixed with duct tape. Or are you telling me that Global Studios used a real spear for filming? In which case, why the hell were they using a real spear for filming?


It's the AA-verse. They think that shooting with one hand, wiping your prints and then proceeding to hold the gun in your other hand is actually a legitimate explanation for the 'wrong' hand prints on the gun.

Also, why the hell can't I object to Ema's drawing, saying that it's obviously wrong from the start cause the polygon person A was preparing to stab polygon person B in the front. (Also, she says she fainted before the actual murder, why does she also say she saw the very moment of the murder?)

C-A

1. Ex-freaking-actly.
2. And that's a major criticism with this series in general. It only lets the audience follow the path the game wants you to follow, while preventing the audience from "thinking outside the box." Just like every JRPG in existence.
Plus, even if Phoenix did follow through with that contradiction, what is he supposed to say after that?

Phoenix: The witness claims the victim was stabbed in the chest, but in reality, he was stabbed in his back!
Ema: What!? B-but...
OBJECTION!
Edgeworth: The flash of lightning only drove off the darkness for a split second. Whatever she must have seen obviously didn't occur one second before Mr. Marshall was stabbed.
Phoenix: Exactly. *slams desk* It is the defense's belief that after the witness passed out, something else happened!
*crowd starts mumbling*
Judge: Order! Mr. Wright, what do you assume happened?
Phoenix: ...
...Well, I still haven't figured that out yet.
Edgeworth: ...
Ema: ...
.........
Judge: Penalty.

3. There are three times when the "moment" Ema saw was brought up.
Day 3 Investigation:
Quote:
Ema: I don't remember the moment when Darke stabbed Mr. Marshall.

Day 4 Trial Former Testimony 1:
Quote:
Ema: Mr. Marshall jumped on Darke. I was thrown aside and the two began wrestling each other.
I'm pretty sure I was watching them.

and Testimony 2:
Quote:
Phoenix: You mean, you didn't see the actual murder take place?
Ema: No. I-I'm sorry...

Tell me, where does she ever say she saw the exact moment the knife entered the victim's body?
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sumguy28 wrote:
Plus, even if Phoenix did follow through with that contradiction, what is he supposed to say after that?

Phoenix: The witness claims the victim was stabbed in the chest, but in reality, he was stabbed in his back!
Ema: What!? B-but...
OBJECTION!
Edgeworth: The flash of lightning only drove off the darkness for a split second. Whatever she must have seen obviously didn't occur one second before Mr. Marshall was stabbed.
Phoenix: Exactly. *slams desk* It is the defense's belief that after the witness passed out, something else happened!
*crowd starts mumbling*
Judge: Order! Mr. Wright, what do you assume happened?
Phoenix: ...
...Well, I still haven't figured that out yet.
Edgeworth: ...
Ema: ...
.........
Judge: Penalty.

Technically, the judge wouldn't give him a penalty there. He made a legitimate objection, but just couldn't keep it going. Besides, Edgeworth could later point out that whether or not he was stabbed in the front or back, it wouldn't matter. At that moment, they didn't figure out anyone else was there. And since Ema fell unconscious, who else could it be?

:judge: All in favor of penalty, say 'Aye!'.
:edgeworth: Aye.
:ema: Aye.
:lana: Aye.
:gs4-people: Aye. Aye! Aye, Aye? Aye; Yay!
:ack: What the heck is thiiiis!?
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
:gs4-people:


Shut up, Peanut Gallery! I have totally rational hatred for you and if I hear you explode over a tiny contradiction again, I will come in there with a flamethrower and burn you all to the ground!
I hate the peanut gallery so much, they react to everything...! "What, the defendant is in a relationship with this girl? Oh my dear Lord~!" It's so bad that I actually want an option to demand the trial be blocked to all people who are not directly related to the case or working on it...

C-A
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Wow, that's some intense hate for a smilie image.
It wouldn't be Ace Attorney without the gallery. The courthouse is more like a drama theater, and all sorts of people are invited, including little kids... to a murder trial. This system must be desperate for business if they'd sell their dignities for an audience.

Actually, the gallery gets into it so much that they might as well be part of the play...

It's all a conspiracy! :maggey:
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Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.
Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

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