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AA Theories *Possible SpoilersTopic%20Title
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Post theories or headcanons for Ace Attorney here. It has to be inside ACE ATTONREY (or PLvsAA). Nothing about fanworks or AUs (Alternate Universes).

For example:
- Where the events of Ace Attorney took place
- The identity of the Phantom or the person who shot him/her.

Here are some ideas:
Tumblr Ace Attorney Headcanons
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YOU JUST MESSED WITH THE WRONG PERSON!!!

Hydrophyl the Feraligatr is going to rearrange the Phantom's kneecaps! You never know, I used him, and only him - to defeat the entire E4 and all of Kanto's Gym leaders, believe it or not!

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We already have a headcanon thread.
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That head canon page speculates Apollo is a cyborg but not that Athena is an android?

Amateurs.
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sumguy28 wrote:


This is mostly for discussing theories. Theories are mostly explanations of plot holes and are more complex and real and can be debated and proved or disproved, whereas headcanons are simple, mostly just implied ideas and probably aren't real but instead rather what you choose to believe or add to a character or universe.

A theory is an explanation and would usually have facts to back it up while a headcanon is an idea just to add character or something and doesn't need proof.

The Tumblr Ace Attorney Headcanons link I provided you with is to give you ideas of what things you would want to be debating and then you could choose something and start a discussion if you wanted. The title is "AA Theories" which means that it's mostly theories. This is mostly a discuss and debate thread.
To all the creepypastas, Romans, etc.
http://pa1.narvii.com/5806/85074bd75bdf ... 9d1_hq.gif
YOU JUST MESSED WITH THE WRONG PERSON!!!

Hydrophyl the Feraligatr is going to rearrange the Phantom's kneecaps! You never know, I used him, and only him - to defeat the entire E4 and all of Kanto's Gym leaders, believe it or not!

I've become a DeviantArt member! Link to my DeviantArt Here:
http://articuno32.deviantart.com/
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Student678 wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:


This is mostly for discussing theories. Theories are mostly explanations of plot holes and are more complex and real and can be debated and proved or disproved, whereas headcanons are simple, mostly just implied ideas and probably aren't real but instead rather what you choose to believe or add to a character or universe.

A theory is an explanation and would usually have facts to back it up while a headcanon is an idea just to add character or something and doesn't need proof.

The Tumblr Ace Attorney Headcanons link I provided you with is to give you ideas of what things you would want to be debating and then you could choose something and start a discussion if you wanted. The title is "AA Theories" which means that it's mostly theories. This is mostly a discuss and debate thread.



I think you cut a very vague definition of theory there. Theories don't necessarily need facts to back them up. In fact if they were factual then they'd go from being theories to being natural laws right?
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I think the original headcanon topic was meant to be broad, and include this concept of theory. But eh, ok, I don't really see a problem.

Pierre wrote:
I think you cut a very vague definition of theory there. Theories don't necessarily need facts to back them up. In fact if they were factual then they'd go from being theories to being natural laws right?


Not exactly. The Theory of Relativity has plenty of observations/facts to back it up and it is still a theory, not natural law. But then we are using the scientifical definition of theory, which is different from what is intended here.
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Here's a theory: Is Clay Terran still alive?

Here's what happened:
- We never got to see Clay Terran, even though he was Apollo's friend.
- His autopsy report said he'd been stabbed in the chest with a knife. However, the space suit was thick and would have had to have been taken into account, which meant he could have just gotten a small but serious flesh wound.
- Clay may have been taken hostage, since there was a good time frame in the darkness before he and Starbuck were discovered... which leads to:
- The Phantom is a master of disguise, which means he may have impersonated Clay Terran after capturing him and hiding him, which means he could have done all that's needed to do to make everyone believe that Clay Terran was dead. Then, when Bobby Fulbright was called, The Phantom could have just dragged Clay out, knocked him unconscious and then used him as evidence... which brings me to:
- Falsified Evidence: It's the Dark Age of the Law and lots of people are falsifying evidence and it is very likely The Phantom would have falsified more evidence than that lighter. Also, with the technology and computers there would have been in 2027, photoshopping that crime scene photo would be a piece of cake for The Phantom, since he would have to have been skilled in ICT. He would have a fake autopsy report and a fake photo to make Apollo believe his best mate was dead while Clay was either being held hostage somewhere, or had escaped and trying to find his way back home, having gotten lost.

So? There is a good chance Clay Terran may still be alive!
To all the creepypastas, Romans, etc.
http://pa1.narvii.com/5806/85074bd75bdf ... 9d1_hq.gif
YOU JUST MESSED WITH THE WRONG PERSON!!!

Hydrophyl the Feraligatr is going to rearrange the Phantom's kneecaps! You never know, I used him, and only him - to defeat the entire E4 and all of Kanto's Gym leaders, believe it or not!

I've become a DeviantArt member! Link to my DeviantArt Here:
http://articuno32.deviantart.com/
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That's missing a very important thing: Motive. Why would he?
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And there's also the very glaring issue that Cosmos saw Clay and Starbuck on the ground and moved the launch pad immediately after....which means the Phantom had no time to get to the launch pad and make his jump and he would also have no reason to even place a ladder beforehand. And before you say that Clay was left there and moved after, remember that Detective Arme and Yuri Cosmos were at the crime scene the whole time, meaning that the police would arrive to "Clay" and Starbuck, which means there is no chance for Fulbright to show up. A piece of evidence supporting this is the intro to Cosmic Turnabout, which shows a person in a space suit with a knife in their chest, who would have to be Clay, something the Phantom wouldn't do if his intention was to capture Clay.
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Objection: Autopsies require slicing people open with little regard for their life considering they are dead.

Its not just "hmm this man has a knife wound" and that's that. Gotta examine for that internal bleeding and all!

Yeah he's dead.
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What if...Clay had a TWIN BROTHER?!

...or nah.
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What if the Ace Attorney series was just one big giant stage play that we've all been suckered into believing is canon? Takumi went with a theme when he made Ghost Trick. It's very noticeable. I think the same applies with AA. Hence, no one is actually dead because we never saw the autopsy ever being performed. The red stuff is just beet juice.
Say, is this thread supposed to be serious?
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I suppose I should pose a theory. My theory is this:
Spoiler: Games 4-5
Kristoph Gavin is the real identity of the Phantom. To prove this point, let's take a look at what we know about the Phantom.
-He was stabbed in his right hand.
-He's been a spy for a decent amount of time to be considered dangerous.
-His presumed goal is to stop the Hat space missions and to prevent the truth of the past being revealed through the moon rock.
-His identity could be practically anything.
Now, let's go onto what we know of Kristoph.
-He has a wound on his right hand.
-We know very little about him and his past.
-He's practically a perfect defense attorney.
-He seeks revenge on Phoenix, even going insane over this.
-He is so skilled at suppressing his stress and emotiin that he's even nicknamed "the coolest defense in the West".
Now, let's connect these dots. We can definitely draw a connection between the scar and stabbing. But everything else is a bit more complicated. As such, I will provide a timeline of events for you.
-Kristoph becomes a spy for a reason that can be interpreted in many ways.
-He then goes on to be a perfect defense attorney, which can't be due to forging evidence, as he never met the Mishams up until this point. However, he has the help of a spy organisation, who can help him with this, most likely under the same pretense Calisto used.
-Kristoph is then given an assignment to kill Metis Cykes and dispose of the psychological analysis that could point towards his identity. By this point, Kristoph has already received his nickname and reputation, which doesn't help him hide his identity.
-He runs into Athena and gets stabbed in his right hand, which splatters blood on the moon rock. He cleans up the scene later, framing Blackquill.
-Fast-forward to the year of Zak Gramarye's trial. He enlists the help of the Mishams to forge a piece of evidence, as the spy agency was the reason he almost became suspected in the past. Therefore, he decides to use another source. This is when Vera notices his scar and the "devil" in it. He places the nail polish trap and sends the letter with the stamp as well, for insurance.
-He plays a game of poker with Zak and loses.
-Phoenix becomes Zak's attorney and Kristoh decides to frame him for the forgery. This works out very well for him, because if forgery ever came to light, he has a tangible
source to point to. A soy agency won't cut it in a court of law.
-Kristoph votes against the disbarment of Phoenix, to keep suspicion off him.
-Kristoph keeps an eye on everyone involved in the case and we jump seven years later.
-(For the sake of keeping this relevant to the Phantom, I'll assume you all know what happens in Apollo Justice)
-Kristoph breaks down in court and is taken away.
-His spy buddys break him out and keep this from being noticed because he IS a renowned spy who they need.
-His next assignment is to stall Blackquill until his execution date and find that moon rock.
-He then come across Apollo Justice, the man he had once mentored but was taken from his by Phoenix.
-He now realizes that he can pull the perfect revenge and complete his mission at the same time.
-He waits until the perfect opportunity to hit Phoenix in the personal spot, his friends.
-The opportunity presents itself at the Hat-2 launching. He proceed with his mission and murders Terran to retrieve the moon rock. But in his escape, he notices Athena in the Space Museum.
-To take revenge on her and Phoenix at the same time, he forges her prints on the lighter and waits for the perfect moment to use it.
-At the initial trial, he disposes of the rock through a bombing, to give an explanation for its disappearance.
-Phoenix takes on the case and Kristoph waits until the end to bring Phoenix's hopes up, only to present forged evidence (ironic, isn't it?)
-Fast-forward to the end of the investigation, day 2. He gets worried for a bit, because a trial is going to be forced to happen due to the hostage situation. He searches for any excuse to stop the trial and uses the "all the courtrooms are full" one.
-Phoenix surprises him by using the exploded one, which backfired on Kristoph.
-He then realizes that he can use this chance to get Athena convicted and hurt Phoenix much harder than convicting Blackquill would. He also had a personal issue with Athena, since her stabbing his hand started a series of events that ultimately made him lose to Phoenix twice, bringing him where he was now.
-This plan backfires and he's accused of being the Phantom. He hides behind his arguments, like his vast array of emotions. This, too, fails him.
-It eventually becomes too much for him and he loses his cool as he did a year prior, only this time, he's shot for it.
And that is my theory! Sorry if it's a bit long or horribly done, I haven't really presented theories in full before. :oops:

Edit: Spoiler tag, just in case someone makes a big deal out of it. :basil:
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!


Last edited by Apollo4Justice on Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By the way, about the whole Clay Terran thing, in the picture of the body, we can very clearly see a fatal blood stain so there's that as well.
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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Nurio wrote:
That's missing a very important thing: Motive. Why would he?

No one knows anything about the Phantom or his organisation or what they want. They could want to use Clay Terran for another goal. Why they would want to make everyone believe Clay was dead? To cover up their intentions.
It's just as Apollo Justice said in 5-4: "Some people do things for reasons we can't possibly imagine."

Apollo4Justice wrote:
And there's also the very glaring issue that Cosmos saw Clay and Starbuck on the ground and moved the launch pad immediately after....which means the Phantom had no time to get to the launch pad and make his jump and he would also have no reason to even place a ladder beforehand. And before you say that Clay was left there and moved after, remember that Detective Arme and Yuri Cosmos were at the crime scene the whole time, meaning that the police would arrive to "Clay" and Starbuck, which means there is no chance for Fulbright to show up. A piece of evidence supporting this is the intro to Cosmic Turnabout, which shows a person in a space suit with a knife in their chest, who would have to be Clay, something the Phantom wouldn't do if his intention was to capture Clay.

I had mentioned about falsifying evidence. Perhaps the Phantom had a mannequin that looked just like Clay and put it there in his place before quickly moving him. And if Cosmos and Arme were at the scene the whole time, surely they would have done something. The intro did not show the initial murder, and it didn't look as though Clay tried to defend himself.

Pierre wrote:
Objection: Autopsies require slicing people open with little regard for their life considering they are dead.

Its not just "hmm this man has a knife wound" and that's that. Gotta examine for that internal bleeding and all!

Yeah he's dead.

Remember what I had said about falsified evidence. The Autopsy Report could all have been the work of the Phantom.

Apollo4Justice wrote:
By the way, about the whole Clay Terran thing, in the picture of the body, we can very clearly see a fatal blood stain so there's that as well.

Again. It could possibly be falsified evidence.

We know nothing about the Phantom or the organisation, which means practically anything could have happened.
To all the creepypastas, Romans, etc.
http://pa1.narvii.com/5806/85074bd75bdf ... 9d1_hq.gif
YOU JUST MESSED WITH THE WRONG PERSON!!!

Hydrophyl the Feraligatr is going to rearrange the Phantom's kneecaps! You never know, I used him, and only him - to defeat the entire E4 and all of Kanto's Gym leaders, believe it or not!

I've become a DeviantArt member! Link to my DeviantArt Here:
http://articuno32.deviantart.com/
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It's not that it doesn't show the initial murder, it's just that we see a person who is most likely dead from a knife in their chest, which, again, is something the Phantom wouldn't do if he wanted to capture Clay instead.
Edit: But I also don't understand what you mean by "surely, they would have done something". Even if you meant something along the lines of helping out the victim, we must remember that the fact that they entered and staying in the room until police arrived at the crime scene was established by testimony.
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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Very well,this is what I wrote in the headcanon thread,and I think it'd fit here:
Spoiler: 1-5 huuuuuge man if you haven't played it then don't look or get spooked m8
I think the reason that Meekins appeared at Edgey's even though he should've been in jail at the time was possibly because they didn't quite have enough proof,so they let him go. Then Gant used him to screw Edgey over,knowing that he wouldn't accept the report. Then the video tape was found,and THEN,in the midst of the first trial,they arrested him.

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Student678 wrote:
"Some people do things for reasons we can't possibly imagine."
The Autopsy Report could all have been the work of the Phantom.
We know nothing about the Phantom or the organisation, which means practically anything could have happened.

This reasoning is as strong as "It's magic".
"How did that happen?" "Magic"
"Why did that happen?" "Magic"
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I suddenly have a flashback to the 'Aliens' macro image thingy
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Apollo4Justice wrote:
It's not that it doesn't show the initial murder, it's just that we see a person who is most likely dead from a knife in their chest, which, again, is something the Phantom wouldn't do if he wanted to capture Clay instead.
Edit: But I also don't understand what you mean by "surely, they would have done something". Even if you meant something along the lines of helping out the victim, we must remember that the fact that they entered and staying in the room until police arrived at the crime scene was established by testimony.


But when did they enter? Because before the time they entered, the Phantom could have done some weird tricks. And the person with the knife in their chest may, for all you know, not have been Clay, but rather a well-constructed mannequin decoy so that there would have been no trace of the real Clay, who had been captured.

Nurio wrote:
Student678 wrote:
"Some people do things for reasons we can't possibly imagine."
The Autopsy Report could all have been the work of the Phantom.
We know nothing about the Phantom or the organisation, which means practically anything could have happened.

This reasoning is as strong as "It's magic".
"How did that happen?" "Magic"
"Why did that happen?" "Magic"


We have not much idea of what the Phantom is really like, or the organisation, as they are both shrouded in total mystery. That's why the motive for capture is totally unknown, and the range of possibility is quite broad. Also, the Autopsy Report could actually all have been the work of the Phantom, or them blackmailing the coroner to protect the falsified evidence from discovery.
To all the creepypastas, Romans, etc.
http://pa1.narvii.com/5806/85074bd75bdf ... 9d1_hq.gif
YOU JUST MESSED WITH THE WRONG PERSON!!!

Hydrophyl the Feraligatr is going to rearrange the Phantom's kneecaps! You never know, I used him, and only him - to defeat the entire E4 and all of Kanto's Gym leaders, believe it or not!

I've become a DeviantArt member! Link to my DeviantArt Here:
http://articuno32.deviantart.com/
Re: AA Theories *Possible SpoilersTopic%20Title

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The Phantom fired at Cosmos, who hid behind the door, and ran to the Space Museum. Cosmos entered very soon after. Then Arme showed up and shot at Cosmos, who ran back around to meet up with Arme, There's hardly any time for the Phantom to do anything to the crime scene.

Speaking of the Phantom, no one has anything to say about my theory? :sadshoe:
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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Something I forgot to mention. Cosmos entered the room around the same time Aura saw the Phantom holding the lighter and knife, which is before the murder. This also proves the very little time he has to use.
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
What if the Ace Attorney series was just one big giant stage play that we've all been suckered into believing is canon? Takumi went with a theme when he made Ghost Trick. It's very noticeable. I think the same applies with AA. Hence, no one is actually dead because we never saw the autopsy ever being performed. The red stuff is just beet juice.
Say, is this thread supposed to be serious?

That sounds pretty serious to me. The entire AA series as we've known it would be a lie if this were canon.

How about this for a theory: the Phantom is in the Illuminati/Anonymous-esque secret society.
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Or what if it's all just a game??! :beef:
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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Apollo4Justice wrote:
The Phantom fired at Cosmos, who hid behind the door, and ran to the Space Museum. Cosmos entered very soon after. Then Arme showed up and shot at Cosmos, who ran back around to meet up with Arme, There's hardly any time for the Phantom to do anything to the crime scene.

Speaking of the Phantom, no one has anything to say about my theory? :sadshoe:


Apollo4Justice wrote:
Something I forgot to mention. Cosmos entered the room around the same time Aura saw the Phantom holding the lighter and knife, which is before the murder. This also proves the very little time he has to use.


What if... he had swapped Clay with the mannequin before all that happened, so the mannequin was already there, then he stabbed it to make it look as if he had killed Clay Terran.

Also, GfM, that theory of yours, it does seem pretty neat.
To all the creepypastas, Romans, etc.
http://pa1.narvii.com/5806/85074bd75bdf ... 9d1_hq.gif
YOU JUST MESSED WITH THE WRONG PERSON!!!

Hydrophyl the Feraligatr is going to rearrange the Phantom's kneecaps! You never know, I used him, and only him - to defeat the entire E4 and all of Kanto's Gym leaders, believe it or not!

I've become a DeviantArt member! Link to my DeviantArt Here:
http://articuno32.deviantart.com/
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There's still the issue with how the Phantom managed to move the body after that whole ordeal. A mannequin could be mistaken for a real body in the dark, that I must admit. However, under police investigation, it would be discovered very quickly to be fake, since a mannequin, no matter how realistic it looks, would move differently than a human corpse, since their structures are very different. Not to mention how hard it would be to move the "body" with the crime scene under such scrutiny. Remember, the Phantom couldn't have done it before the police arrived, since Cosmos and Arme were there the whole time.
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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Apollo4Justice wrote:
Speaking of the Phantom, no one has anything to say about my theory? :sadshoe:

Sorry, I've been meaning to reply to it but I plum forgot!
I do think it's interesting and it holds... some water, I suppose. I do like that it explains why The Phantom would present evidence that could indict him when he was in the clear, only to be able to accuse Athena for some reason. (I'm talking about the lighter.) I always thought that was nonsensical in the games. The reason you provided here wasn't particularly strong, but at least it was a reason
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Nurio wrote:
Apollo4Justice wrote:
Speaking of the Phantom, no one has anything to say about my theory? :sadshoe:

Sorry, I've been meaning to reply to it but I plum forgot!
I do think it's interesting and it holds... some water, I suppose. I do like that it explains why The Phantom would present evidence that could indict him when he was in the clear, only to be able to accuse Athena for some reason. (I'm talking about the lighter.) I always thought that was nonsensical in the games. The reason you provided here wasn't particularly strong, but at least it was a reason

What would you propose as a stronger reason, if you don't mind me asking? And no, I am not trying to be passive-aggressive with that, I'm genuinely curious.
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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Going for Miles wrote:
Or what if it's all just a game??! :beef:

That's almost as cheap as "it was just a dream".
Gimme a "P"! Gimme an "I"! Give me a "P" and an "E"! What's that spell?! Pipe!
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Apollo4Justice wrote:
What would you propose as a stronger reason, if you don't mind me asking? And no, I am not trying to be passive-aggressive with that, I'm genuinely curious.

Maybe him having a direct grudge against Athena. It's difficult, because it was pretty nonsensical what he did.
But maybe Athena could've wronged him in some way during or before the crime. Or maybe during all the cases, he just hated her guts? ...But then again, he doesn't really have emotions, so... I dunno
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Nurio wrote:
Apollo4Justice wrote:
What would you propose as a stronger reason, if you don't mind me asking? And no, I am not trying to be passive-aggressive with that, I'm genuinely curious.

Maybe him having a direct grudge against Athena. It's difficult, because it was pretty nonsensical what he did.
But maybe Athena could've wronged him in some way during or before the crime. Or maybe during all the cases, he just hated her guts? ...But then again, he doesn't really have emotions, so... I dunno

Maybe because since she stabbed him, his scar became a thing, resulting in Vera noticing it, which resulted in Apollo drawing the connection and ultimately convicting Kristoph in a second incident? Therefore, he found Athena at fault? That's how Manfred felt about Edgeworth, after all.
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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Theory- Zinc Leblanc was threatened for the Alif Red.

To prove this, let's review on three main figures: the Alif Red, Zinc, and Cammy.

Alif Red-very valuable (marked at 2.4 million at black market), stolen by smuggling ring presumably because of value, was switched with a fake during the Zeng Fa refueling.

Zinc Leblanc-loves/protective of his money and art. Horrible at detecting forgeries.

Cammy Meele-member of smuggling ring, deals with Borginian materials, member of iFly, leader behind Alif Red switch.

Now that we know the basics, let's make a timeline of events.

-Cammy threatens Zinc for the Alif Red, uses his money/art for said threat. (supported by precedent of Phantom, Cammy's knowledge of Borginian materials, and Zinc's compulsive protection of his items)
-Zinc refuses to believe her and places the Alif under protection of iFly. (supported by Zinc's compulsive protection and the fact that Cammy couldn't use the smuggling ring as a threat, as Zinc would definitely not hand over the Alif)
-Cammy is in iFly and manages to pull off a switch of statues. (supported by everything known about the case)
-During the Zeng Fa refueling, Zinc demands a certificate of authenticity of his statue, which Cammy hands over. (supported by Cammy's Borginian knowledge, Zinc's compulsive protection, and Cammy's presumably anonymous threat, as she wasn't recognized)

Now, time for the miscellaneous item. Zinc didn't tell anyone about this because he was worried about the threat and because he clearly disliked nearly everyone he met on the plane, which gives him a reason not to tell anyone.

And that is my theory, or rather the condensed version, since my other one got deleted by the page refreshing...:sadshoe: Any comments, questions, concerns?
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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