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Characters/Cases analysisTopic%20Title
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A conversation in a different thread made me realize that in this franchise there's usually more to everything than it meets the eye, and sometimes we fail to see the deep in characters or cases because we get stuck in merely liking them because they're fun or cool or hating them because they're boring or annoying.

So this is the place for thinking and overthinking about characters and cases you think are more interesting than they get credit for, either in-universe, or in meta-sense(analyzing what the mean for the game they appear in) and maybe helping other fans gain a newfound appreciation for them.

So I'll start this by sharing my thoughts on a certain character and a certain case.

Spoiler: 5-5
Let's talk about the phantom. There are two things I find really interesting about him. First, the lack of identity that defines his character. This is emphasized in many ways in the game, from never capitalizing the word "phantom" and always referring to him as "the phantom from seven years ago" and not just "the phantom" as if it were a nickname (so he isn't really "the" phantom, but just "a" phantom.) to covering his face in shadows in his breakdown. It's not just that we don't know his identity, he simply doesn't have one. Even the man himself doesn't remember who he is, how he looks like or his personality. And that's the irony here: by h¡ding his identity at all times to protect it, he ended up losing it.
And this leads to the other thing I want to talk about, his motive, which is protecting his identity for fear of what would happen if he's discovered. That's the only reason he killed Metis(to get back his psych profile) and Clay(to get back the moon rock with the blood on it) and bombed a courtroom full of people. Now, this kind of paranoia is pretty common as far as AA villains go, since otherwise we wouldn't have crazy cover-up plans to expose, but the phantom is a special case. We're told many times during the case that he doesn't experience emotions normally and we see that for ourselves in the Mood Matrix. And yet, it's that fear, the little bit of emotion he does really feel, what drives him to kill. And I think that's what the game is trying to say here, that even someone almost completely emotionless as the phantom can't escape his feelings. After all, that's what Athena had been saying the whole game: that you can't run away from your emotions.


Spoiler: 5-3
I know that many people like Turnabout Academy for its wacky characters and crazy twists (I do, too) and others hate for its cheesy morals and high school drama(which are definitely there), but I really think there's other themes going on here in a more subtle way. So the case basically throws two aesops at us, friendship is very important and the end doesn't justify the means. But what if they contradict each other? What if you have to hide the truth to protect a friend? Does the end justify the means in that case? This a real conflict that's presented in the case. At the end of the first trial all three friends falsely confess to the crime to protect each other, and both Robin and Hugh use "the end justify the means" as an excuse for lying. But was that really a right thing to do? The game is clear on this one: No.
Juniper has to go through this conflict herself: She has to decide between hiding what she knows and going against her morals, or exposing Hugh and going against her friend. Since she values both her friends and Courte's philosophy above all else, this is almost an unmovable object vs unstoppable force problem and she's really torn by it, but in the end she decides to tell what she knows and begs Athena to find the truth no matter what it is, because hiding it wouldn't really help Hugh. And that's the moral here, that you shouldn't hide the truth to help your friends because hiding the truth doesn't really help anyone.
This message is present in most AA games in some way, since they're based in finding the truth, but this case is particularly insistent about it. Robin literally embodies the idea that "the truth will set you free". It's no coincidence that she's frowning in all of her pre-reveal sprites and there's an anger overload in her Mood Matrix segment. She's clearly much happier afterwards. But all other characters go through something similar: Myriam gets inside the group the moment she's open about it, the conflict between Hugh and Junie only exists because they hid things from each other, Hugh's Mood Matrix segment ends with Athena convincing him not to lie for Junie's sake even if that's damaging to her case, and it's the only thing he was telling the truth about (that Means wasn't in his seat during the mock trial) what allows to implicate the real killer. And of course the villain (who by the way killed Courte to keep the truth hidden) is the only one who refuses to admit the truth and can't even write he's guilty on the blackboard without fainting.

So this case is not only about friendship and Machiavellian philosophy, it's also about the importance of the truth. Edgeworth would be proud. All this will tie with 5-5, in which Apollo goes through a similar problem to Junie's and applies a relatively similar philosophy.
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Oh joy! This is fun. I was thinking only yesterday about
Spoiler: 6-4
Uendo. His DID may have been oversimplified and displayed in an unrealistic way, but nevertheless I highly appreciated the inclusion of Owen, not only as a twist since I (and, I guess, many players with me) expected some creepy killer-personality and not a frightened child, but also because it made it a bit more realistic - people with DID will often have one child-personality. It does, however come with some tragic implications since DID is commonly caused by traumatic experiences in the childhood,hence the "leftover" kid personality. And with that in mind, Uendo (the personality referred to as Uendo, not the entire... body? Cluster?) seems to me to have some sort of sadness about him. Also, keeping with the trauma-thing, different personalities will often have different functions, and, at least with my limited knowledge about DID, I think that it could apply to the personalities (aside from representing rakugo-archetypes). Owen, as mentioned, is the kid or "inner child", Uendo is, of course, the "host" or "core" personality. Patches, "the friendly jester" might then be the optimistic personality that encourages Uendo to move forwards and find happiness. Kisegawa is a courtesan, and it seems at least fairly common for persons with DID to have one personality that is sexually active, but I think her main objective, unfazed and sarcastic as she is, would be to deal with shit, be mentally strong, bite back when needed. Last but not least, I think it was very heartwarming to see how the three main personalities co-operated to protect Owen, both in court and at the crimescene.

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The best and most sympathethic character to me in 2-3 is...Moe. Not even kidding here.

He has an estranged wife and daughter whom he can't see,this giving him parallels to the Rng,aster. He only wants good things for the people in the circus,and tries to help. His whole first testimony is taken like a joke,but it's actually just him trying to give out his feelings. He even brings Regina to the trial to show her the troth. And after the case is over,he doesn't whine. He takes up the mantle of ringmaster,starts a friendship with Max,and hopes to make the Berry Big Circus great one day.


What an amazing and underrated character.
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I read a blogpost that I thought was pretty neat and interesting.
Spoiler: 5-3
http://androgynousanime.blogspot.se/2014/03/robin-newman-ace-attorney-and-bipolar.html
It's pretty easy to brush off Robin as a shallow sterotype of both male and female, respectively (and sometimes simultaneously). That was kinda my first impression of her. But, as the author of the linked post argues, Robin in a sense showcases the "performativeness" of gender, and gender expression, and the traditional notion that it's something inherent and comes naturally. As a "male", Robin is angry, exagerrated and pretty much overcompensating her masculinity, so when she's outed as female and thus set free (although the outing in itself was highly insensitive and unprofessional by Athena) she's not only free to be her joyful and cheeky self (which she probably toned down while acting as male in case it would draw unwanted attention to her supposed maleness) but also explore traditional femininity in itself, and having a blast doing so. I love her animation with the sparkling shoe, both because it's so nonsensical with her randomly pulling a shoe from hammerspace just to stare at it, but also because it seems very symbolic. And, also important, and which the author of the blogpost mentioned: Robin as a character is more than the concept of two gender sterotypes slapped onto each other. She has a consistent personality (loud, outgoing, emotional), along with some traits (cheeky, playful) that she seems to have supressed as a "boy". I'm also glad she still keeps some of the roaring and pottery throwing she did as a male, as they, too are (have become?) part of her personality and not just a male act.

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SC: Yeah, I like him too. I find him rather annoying, but he has a really good heart and it shows.

GfM: Neat, yes! And I agree. :)
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(Disclaimer: it's closing in on 2 am, I'm writing from the top off my head and therefore there might be typos or flimsy writing. Also, spoilers for 4-3 and 4-4)
I've read many complaints with different aspects of Klavier's character, but one particular I never understood is that a lot of people seem to find his reactions to his friend and his brother being killers as understated, and that it is a problem for his character.
First of all, I'd argue that his reactions aren't, in my opinion, too little or unrealistic. During the game, we do see him struggle. In a rather stern and low-key way, sure, but it's definitely showing. For instance:

Spoiler: 4-3 and saving space
Klavier:
He... Daryan was the first
detective I ever worked with.

Klavier:
We stopped working together
when he moved to Criminal
Affairs, Division 3...

Klavier:
But his guitar playing...
it fires my imagination!

Apollo:
That's nice, but it has
nothing to do with the
matter at hand.

Apollo:
...Correct?

Klavier:
Oh, I know.
...Herr Forehead.

He's clearly feeling bad about the situation. Right before this dialogue, he starts by saying he doesn't believe any of it, and, as seen in the quoted dialogue, goes on to talk about Daryan's capability as a guitarist, and is seemingly nostalgic about their time working together in the past. If anything, this behaviour is pretty out of character for someone like him, and Apollo even calls him out on its irrelevancy, to which Klavier has no other reply than to say that he knows... and throw in a belated "Her Forehead" for good measure. It continues:
Spoiler: also4-3 and saving space
Daryan:
What I don't understand...
is how you let this happen,
"partner".

Klavier:
......

Daryan:
You gave me your word I
wouldn't be standing here.

Klavier:
The situation's changed,
Daryan...

Klavier:
And don't call me "partner".

Daryan:
Feh. So much for old friends.

Klavier:
......

Apollo:
(I see what you're doing,
Daryan. You're "pressing" the
prosecution!)

... But Klavier is pragmatic and wants the truth of the case, no matter what, and doesn't fall for Daryan trying to guilt trip him over it. He tells Daryan not to call him "partner", and perhaps this is the point where he's starting to distance himself from Daryan. Why? Maybe, despite what he said earlier, he is getting suspicious. Or he simply wants to avoid getting to personally affected until it's clear he can trust Daryan again, if the latter would prove to be innocent after all. According to himself, he "tries to remain simple inside" to pursue "a simple goal - the truth". According to Daryan he's "straight as an arrow" ("'cept when he's depressed").
By the time the trial ends and Daryan is proven not to be innocent, Klavier acts rather unfazed ("though, personally, this comes as a terrible disappointment"). But rather than finding this a fault with the writing, I'd suggest it tells us something about him. We don't know how he feels inside, but we know he acts stoic seen from the outside. Perhaps he simply hides him emotions well. Why? We can tell he's someone rather preoccupied with how he's percieved by other people, wanting to woo and impress them, and has different personas for different situations - "Klavier, lead vocalist for the Gavinners", and "Prosecutor Gavin, scourge of the courtroom", and being famous, he might want to lay low with his reactions to avoid being picked apart by media after the trial. It could of course have deeper lying and more troubling reasons than him being concerned about his public image, but that's going entirely into speculation. It could of course also be that it's simply how he works, as a person. Many people have a more muted way of expressing their reactions and emotions in terms of body language et cetera. And from what we have seen by him, Klavier seems to be a generally laid-back and calm person.

In 4-4 his struggles are even more obvious. He's going through a lot of emotions and actions, from snarking Apollo, and seemingly doubting Kristoph's guilt ("...You're being accused again. By him. Again.") and doing his darndest to prove Apollo wrong, to serious conflict ("Just... prove it! Clear up these doubts now, or I swear I'm off this case!"). He's seriously considering just up and leaving mid-trial. And Kristoph takes advantage of his struggles in a manipulating way that suggests that he holds great psychological power over him, which is very creepy but a discussion for another time. In any case, Apollo notes that Klavier seems to be in physical pain during all of this, until he eventually seems to catch up on it himself and stands up against his brother ("Spinning out of whose control? Mine? ...Or yours?") and finally, tells him off bluntly ("You're not needed anymore"), not to mention the sprite where he has his gaze towards the ceiling while talking, making it seem like he's trying to hold back or hide tears. The tension within him, and between him and Kristoph, are apparent, but not exaggerated. It's drama, but not melodrama. I don't see the problem with this.

... And in the credits, he seems happy and back to his usual self. I don't see a problem with that either. But let's for argument's sake say that his reactions to everything that happened to him were understated. In that case, again, the question is why they are, and what that means to his character (other than "it's poorly written"). I already went through the argument that he may feel a lot inside but for various reasons chooses not to, or simply doesn't, show it. Reasons I think are plausible and goes with the kind of person he has proven to be at other points in the game. It may make his character's presence less poignant and memorable for people, I could get that, but I very much disagree with the notion that it's bad writing or that he's personality-less, because that is his personality and how he handles situations, and it's definitely not an unrealistic or even uncommon way to do so.
The other option would be that he's not hiding/muting anything, and simply doesn't give a shit about the fate of his brother and his buddy. Which would also point to his personality, although in a vastly different way. Either that would make him an icecold bitch, or it would be a sign of perfectionism (a trait he certainly does seem to have canonically), that he puts other people to certain standards and then cuts off completely when they disappoint him.
Whatever the case, my point is that Klavier's behaviour during these trials, both very personal to him, is showing his personality and not a lack thereof, although what exactly it means can be interpreted differently.
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Oh, that was a really nice read. And I agree with you!
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The reason I feel that Klavier is sorta the weak spot of AJ's cast is because he's...honestly rather out of character all the time. He claims to be all for the truth,yet helps Alita with her alibi in the second day of 4-2; he gets angry at a missed note more than his best friend and brother going to jail...you could say of course that he's concealing it,but THAT'S NOT VERY GOOD. Good characters are those whom you get to see properly at one point. No facade, just who they really are. Even Maya had her breaking point in 3-5. So in comparison Klavier is rather weak and so so. Not as bad as Nahyuta,but down there.


The ending too was really weak. I don't know why,but I felt there was something quintessential lacking there. The Gavinners broke up? Okay,is that the only relevant thing you have to say? Meh.
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Quote:
he's...honestly rather out of character all the time.

Then wouldn't that mean that him being out of character is in character? ;)

Quote:
he gets angry at a missed note more than his best friend and brother going to jail...

But how is that out of character? About that, though, yeah, he does react more strongly... I'd argue it chalks up to him being a perfectionist, so he gets annoyed and it shows. I'd hope he reacts more strongly to the other two things but we can't notice from an outside perspective. Whether that is good or bad is up to the observer. Also, this is another point where those "personas" of his comes into play. "Klavier, lead singer of the Gavinners" and "Prosecutor Gavin, scourge of the courtroom", that is (I, at least, consider them to be personas rather than just his professional roles as he outright asks Apollo which one he wants to talk to in case 4-3). When he's in court mode, he's level-headed and easygoing, but backstage he's like a whiny kid at times. Speaking of which...

Quote:
Good characters are those whom you get to see properly at one point. No facade, just who they really are.


Maybe... that whiny kid is when he's his true self as opposed to the courtroom and the stage. xD Seriously though, I think Klavier is in general being true to himself. He's just not a very complicated person. He is that laid-back, easygoing, stoic person. Does he hide his emotions in order to come across less vulnerable than he is? Maybe not, as I said, maybe that genuinely is how he expresses himself, with a bit of involuntary stoneface (not really stoneface, but that he could seem less shocked or upset than he really is, without him doing anything to put on a facade). Especially when compared to his rather flamboyant manners when he feels confident (and, supposedly, deliberately hams it up true to his showmanship).
But I guess Klavier is not for everyone, although I personally think he's more interesting and multifaceted than people usually give him credit for. I don't know, I just feel drawn to his character in a sense (and not only because of that sweet smile), like I want to figure him out and really get to understand him. Some may interpret it as him being a weaker character; I'm just intrigued.
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Honestly though,here it felt that the devs were trying to make another Edgeworth,but it felt very stale and shallow. You could interpret all that I argued against as interesting,but for me it's dull and drab. His 'personas',as you put it,seem more like excuses to not develop the character to me while making it seem lazily three dimensional. It sadly doesn't work for me.

At least his air guitar was cool.
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Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
Honestly though,here it felt that the devs were trying to make another Edgeworth,but it felt very stale and shallow. You could interpret all that I argued against as interesting,but for me it's dull and drab. His 'personas',as you put it,seem more like excuses to not develop the character to me while making it seem lazily three dimensional. It sadly doesn't work for me.

At least his air guitar was cool.


Spoiler: All main games
I, on the other hand, feels like he's the prosecutor they tried to make an Edgeworth the least of xD(and no, I didn't know in what order to place the words in that sentence).
And I think personas suit him, being a performer and all. But I guess this is the point where we simply have to agree to differ :) (And gosh, now I really wanna replay AJ soon)
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Going for Miles wrote:
(Disclaimer: it's closing in on 2 am, I'm writing from the top off my head and therefore there might be typos or flimsy writing. Also, spoilers for 4-3 and 4-4)
I've read many complaints with different aspects of Klavier's character, but one particular I never understood is that a lot of people seem to find his reactions to his friend and his brother being killers as understated, and that it is a problem for his character.
First of all, I'd argue that his reactions aren't, in my opinion, too little or unrealistic. During the game, we do see him struggle. In a rather stern and low-key way, sure, but it's definitely showing.


Oh absolutely. I'm in too much pain right now and it looks like the bad weather may knock our power out soon for me to do a really long post about this right now, but I did do this post for Tumblr for an Ace Attorney meme that asked about 'favourite sprite' which I think is relevant here:-

Spoiler: Case 4-4
(The below text is talking about this sprite: http://www.court-records.net/animation4 ... 28b%29.gif )

Yup. This is an extremely simple sprite but let me explain. I’ve often heard complaints levelled at Klavier for not having more of a reaction to the end of case 4-4… but here’s the thing… as far as I’m concerned this reaction speaks volumes more than him losing it would have done.

Look at Klavier’s other sprites. My eyes are always drawn to his when he has them open, and even when he is playing air guitar or snapping his fingers with them half lidded or completely closed they are still there and you can clearly see his smile.

Here though… here they are completely masked by his hair. By looking up too it’s a lot harder to tell just exactly what the expression his mouth is making is. You have to remember that Klavier’s rockband skyrocketed to fame after that trial 7 years ago that has haunted him for reasons ever since. He must be used to media focus. All the time he’s telling Kristoph it is over… he isn’t looking at him. But he isn’t looking at anyone else either. He doesn’t want anyone to have an insight into what is really going through his head at that moment. Making eye contact with Kristoph would probably have made this even harder.

Of course eventually he does look back down, once the Judge chimes in in agreement with what he is saying, but I think this sprite was well used in a way which showed that there was a lot of thought going through his mind during these few minutes.

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Oh, that was nicely written. I too think that sprite is really good and serves its purpose well.
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Thirded!
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Not really fourthed sadly. But you DO know an underrated character from AJ? Freaking Valant.

Really,Valant was the scapegoat in the Gramarye story. The poor guy never got what he wanted,and yet was the one who admitted defeat the most gracefully. Seriously,the scene where he realises what he truly did and turns himself in was so powerful to me.
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Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
Not really fourthed sadly. But you DO know an underrated character from AJ? Freaking Valant.

Really,Valant was the scapegoat in the Gramarye story. The poor guy never got what he wanted,and yet was the one who admitted defeat the most gracefully. Seriously,the scene where he realises what he truly did and turns himself in was so powerful to me.


It's weird....

Spoiler: case 4-4
Even though Valant is the one who framed Zak for murder when it was really a suicide, he still comes across more likeable than Zak himself. And I've just jogged my memory by looking on the AA-Wiki that it is him who implies to Phoenix that there's a chance Thalassa may still be alive.

Then there's him admitting defeat after realising the rights of the magic had passed to Trucy - other people in the franchise wouldn't have let that stop them.

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Spoiler: 4-4
While it's true he did do that,it's because he was screwed from the beginning. Think about it. Even if Zak didn't shoot the clown,he probably wouldn't have killed Magnifi. Valant was to come last. Even if he did get the rights somehow,Magnifi would've still shot himself,thus framing Valant. So really,he had no choice but to frame Zak.

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Valant is the only one of the male Gramaryes with any redeeming qualities - AKA I'm actually agreeing with your original post.
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I know,I'm just elaborating on your first point
Spoiler:
on him framing Zak.

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Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
While it's true he did do that,it's because he was screwed from the beginning. Think about it. Even if Zak didn't shoot the clown,he probably wouldn't have killed Magnifi. Valant was to come last. Even if he did get the rights somehow,Magnifi would've still shot himself,thus framing Valant. So really,he had no choice but to frame Zak.

Spoiler:
He could have called the police and tell them it was a suicide, which would be extremely easy to prove with the fingerprints on the weapon. So yeah, he did have the choice not to do anything wrong. I love Valant, don't get me wrong, but he's indirectly responsible for a lot of the crap in AJ, and I think people tend to ignore that. I know that Magnifi and Zak were both pretty big jerks, but Valant's motivation was basically jealousy. He might be better than the others, but I still think he fits the bill for magician obsessed with magic to the point of caring more about it than about people, at least until that moment of realization with Phoenix. One has to wonder if it wasn't required to be like that to enter Troupe Gramarye.


Also, I was under the impression that Valant is a pretty popular character.
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luck wrote:
Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
While it's true he did do that,it's because he was screwed from the beginning. Think about it. Even if Zak didn't shoot the clown,he probably wouldn't have killed Magnifi. Valant was to come last. Even if he did get the rights somehow,Magnifi would've still shot himself,thus framing Valant. So really,he had no choice but to frame Zak.

Spoiler:
He could have called the police and tell them it was a suicide, which would be extremely easy to prove with the fingerprints on the weapon. So yeah, he did have the choice not to do anything wrong. I love Valant, don't get me wrong, but he's indirectly responsible for a lot of the crud in AJ, and I think people tend to ignore that. I know that Magnifi and Zak were both pretty big jerks, but Valant's motivation was basically jealousy. He might be better than the others, but I still think he fits the bill for magician obsessed with magic to the point of caring more about it than about people, at least until that moment of realization with Phoenix. One has to wonder if it wasn't required to be like that to enter Troupe Gramarye.


Spoiler: 4-4
While you do bring up a good point,I still say that he's a good grey area character for the most part,but still, he's the most sympathetic Gramarye by far,as he actually atones for his crimes in the end.


And I think Valant is the least discussed Gramarye,actually. All everyone really says about him is that his animations were cool,but I wanted to discuss how good his character actually was. He's also a great red herring in both cases he appears in.
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Last edited by Southern Corn on Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spoiler: 6-5
People say this case is cluttered and I agree, but there's so much more good stuff than meets the eye that this case isn't recognized for

Let's talk about Jove Justice. We learn a bit about him--he was a musician, passionate, had a loud voice, and loved his son. It's a pretty nice amount of depth that can be inferred, despite that he didn't need to be a character with anything beyond a blank slate

Anyway, Jove Justice dies unable to save his son and presumably his last thoughts are regret of that. However, his death is what gave Apollo the chance to fight for his life 20 years later. It's very sweet and it actually gives Jove Justice an arc, despite him being dead the entire duration of the game

And there's another character whose arc closed after his death: Tahrust, as Maya said he left the channeling feeling no regrets. Both Jove and Tahrust show that life still has meaning after death, which feels like a nice theme for SOJ

But wait, there's more!

Tahrust's arc was completed using Maya's spirit channeling and Jove's was completed using Rayfa's Divination Seance. So both abilities were once again shown to be separate but neither decidedly superior to the other
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Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
The best and most sympathethic character to me in 2-3 is...Moe. Not even kidding here.

He has an estranged wife and daughter whom he can't see,this giving him parallels to the Rng,aster. He only wants good things for the people in the circus,and tries to help. His whole first testimony is taken like a joke,but it's actually just him trying to give out his feelings. He even brings Regina to the trial to show her the troth. And after the case is over,he doesn't whine. He takes up the mantle of ringmaster,starts a friendship with Max,and hopes to make the Berry Big Circus great one day.


What an amazing and underrated character.


Is that bit about his real family true? Haven't played JFA in forever.
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Yes,it's only found out through optional dialogue though.
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Going for Miles wrote:
Oh joy! This is fun. I was thinking only yesterday about
Spoiler: 6-4
Uendo. His DID may have been oversimplified and displayed in an unrealistic way, but nevertheless I highly appreciated the inclusion of Owen, not only as a twist since I (and, I guess, many players with me) expected some creepy killer-personality and not a frightened child, but also because it made it a bit more realistic - people with DID will often have one child-personality. It does, however come with some tragic implications since DID is commonly caused by traumatic experiences in the childhood,hence the "leftover" kid personality. And with that in mind, Uendo (the personality referred to as Uendo, not the entire... body? Cluster?) seems to me to have some sort of sadness about him. Also, keeping with the trauma-thing, different personalities will often have different functions, and, at least with my limited knowledge about DID, I think that it could apply to the personalities (aside from representing rakugo-archetypes). Owen, as mentioned, is the kid or "inner child", Uendo is, of course, the "host" or "core" personality. Patches, "the friendly jester" might then be the optimistic personality that encourages Uendo to move forwards and find happiness. Kisegawa is a courtesan, and it seems at least fairly common for persons with DID to have one personality that is sexually active, but I think her main objective, unfazed and sarcastic as she is, would be to deal with shit, be mentally strong, bite back when needed. Last but not least, I think it was very heartwarming to see how the three main personalities co-operated to protect Owen, both in court and at the crimescene.

Heh. I thought pretty much the same thing.
Spoiler: 6-4
The Owen-thing was a bit of a "fridge horror"-moment for me, what with the implications and all.

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Spoiler: 6-4
But it makes it feel as if they were going for a truer portrayal of DID rather than a fictionalized "split personality"-thing.

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I agree, I liked that.
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Spoiler: 6-4
Especially since it's fairly hard to portray in fiction without some smartass coming to say "that's not realistiiic". Had the case been longer and with investigations and such, it would have been interesting to see how it could have been fleshed out and played with even more, perhaps taking into account memory loss between the different identities, but what we got I think is a nice condensed and hammed up (on the other hand, what in AA is not hammed up?) version. One could compare it to Matt Engarde (some people think of him as having a split personality, others that he is simply acting; I believe the former) which is more of a Jekyll/Hyde-thing. I thought it was interesting to have an innocent witness that nevertheless messed up the crime scene and created a false alibi because he might be guilty. Had he actually been guilty (or rather, one of the personalities within that body) it would have produced an interesting dilemma for the court, although I don't think that would suit this case in particular.

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There are two quotes at the end of T&T that I think do a good job of summing up the series. The first is from the judge when he says each case takes place in its own little world and should be viewed separately. The second is from Phoenix at the end when he says that what makes us human is to fight for others, which is what he constantly does as a lawyer

Every single villain in T&T is looking out for themselves. Contrast this to PW which had Dee Vasquez's murder in self-defense, and JFA which had two sympathetic culprits. Dahlia primarily acts on emotion and just wants what she wants, Luke Atmey is so full of pride and wants to be recognized for someone he isn't, and Furio Tigre wants to survive at the cost of others. It's a very nice way for the game to show the contrast between the good guys and bad guys

What about Godot? Wasn't he fighting for Maya? Not quite, he even admits that it was out of revenge for himself and Mia. He was a defense attorney, just like Phoenix, and dedicated his life to saving people. Yet he couldn't save the person who mattered most in the end and it just absolutely twisted him. He's not as evil as the aforementioned others, but his motive essentially stems from resentment towards himself at not doing his job

T&T is the only game whose theme doesn't seem to connect to the legal system in any way. Not bad for working around that
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I'm not done with Klavier. :klavier: Having replayed AJ not too long ago, I got to revise my impression of him slightly and wanted to put down some of it into words. Mainly, his courtroom sprites in cases 4-2, 4-3 and 4-4 and how they relate to the level of personal investment he has in the respective cases.

First of all, as we know the prosecutors/rivals in AA tend to have some kind of "basic" damagesprite, not too shocked but flinching, drawing back etc. for when the player character surprises them with blowing a hole in their argument. This is Klavi's:
Image
Klavier:
...

That's it. When Apollo manages to shut him up, he simply... shuts up. Not very interesting, but in character. From the very start he's explicitly more interested in finding the truth and pursuing Justice (I swear that capital J was by mistake) than winning, so there would be no point in getting upset or try to deny the defense's argument when he knows it makes sense. Still, he doesn't exactly acknowledge anything, or agree with the defense's claim, he just goes silent. Maybe due to some hurt pride, maybe because he just has nothing to say.
What is more interesting is that this exact thing, that is, that sprite and the "..." comes up in other situations as well. That is, when, respectively, his friend and his brother, both people close to him that ended up being killers, says something that gets to him, for instance:
Daryan:
What I don't understand...
is how you let this happen,
"partner".
Klavier:
......
(And, just a few seconds later:)
Daryan:
Feh. So much for old friends.
Klavier:
......
---
Kristoph:
...Well, Klavier?
Klavier:
...!
(...)
Klavier:
You're being accused again.
...By him. Again.
Kristoph:
Ahh. And? You agree with his
accusation, do you?
Klavier:
......
---
Kristoph:
...Really, Klavier.
Kristoph:
You should be seeing through
these weak-spined bluffs
by now.
Klavier:
......

Yes, Klavier is all for justice, and when push comes to shove, even if the guilty party happens to be someone close to him, if the facts point to them he becomes pretty ruthless. But initially, as we can see, he's not like that. He doesn't unconditionally believe people he knows just because he likes them, but he can't really say to their faces that he suspects them either, or even that we'll see whether or not he'll suspect them when the facts have been laid out in court. He just withdraws and says nothing, with that calm expression that he has probably practiced so well he can zone out or have all sorts of thoughts with it still plastered on.

Image Image
Aceattorneywiki calls these "annoyed" and "angry sweating". There is also an annoyed sweating and an angry without the sweating. If I recall correctly, neither of these appear in case 4-2, so the first time we see any of them is in case 4-3, a case Klavier is personally connected to. His facial expression is kind of funny - he almost looks disgusted. He usually has great posture, but here he's leaning forward in some half-angled way that looks pretty uncomfortable and tense. You can really tell he's on edge. They are both expressive, maybe not in the comically exaggerated way that a lot of courtroom sprites are, and in that sense it might come across as underwhelming, especially as this is basically on the same level as how Edgeworth behaves if Phoenix so much as says "I think you're wrong", but I think it's very believable, and I especially find the second one interesting. Rather than "angry", I would call it "frustrated", and you can basically see the turmoil going on inside. He's usually stoic and has a calm exterior, a controlled way of expressing himself, and here he seems so frustrated and beside himself he hardly knows what to do with his body, his face is scrunched together and the tenseness goes straight into his clenched fists to the point where they're shaking (if he'd have a coffee mug in his hand at that moment, it'd definitely break Diego-style). And, as Apollo points out at one point where he does this sprite (the second) in 4-4, he almost looks like he's physically in pain.
Another thing to note is that the annoyed version appears quite a few times in the relatively short flashback segment. It shows he was way more rash and emotionally invested in the trial back then, as a seventeen year old. He probably felt more was at stake for him personally, too, since that was his first time prosecuting in court and his chance to really make a mark.

Image
Aceattorneywiki labels this one as "disbelief". This is probably the most damage-spritey sprite with Klavier. Some sort of tipping point has been reached, it's moving, it's dynamic, something is happening (and he still looks like he's in pain). He covers his ears and shakes his entire torso back and forth as if he doesn't want to hear, doesn't want to believe, what he's hearing and what's happening ("lalala I can't hear yooou", as Catmuto put it in a post years ago). It appears a few times in 4-3 at the point where everything really starts to point towards Daryan, and he has to accept there's a high possibility he did it, but he doesn't want to accept that possible truth. Now here's something interesting. This is, as I said, perhaps the most dramatic damage-sprite he has, yet it never appears in 4-4, which arguably took the biggest toll on him emotionally. And the reason, I assume, is that it's, as the wiki put it, his "disbelief"-sprite. Daryan being a killer took him off guard, it came completely out of the blue, while Kristoph being a suspect in the Drew Misham-case didn't shock him. Shook him, yes, shocked him, no. Of course, at that point, Kristoph was already in jail for another murder, but still, that one was knocking someone out with a bottle, not a premediated poisoning, not attempting to kill a 12-year-old because of a forgery, a forgery that Klavier himself proved had taken place in court, stripping Phoenix of his badge. My point is, even though Klavier already knew Kristoph had killed, he would have had all the reason to be shocked by this. But he wasn't - he had felt for seven years that something was off regarding the forgery, and he probably knew some of Kristoph's darkness already.
Another thing I've thought about regarding this sprite is the wonky guitar soundeffect that accompanies it in the game. It could be metaphorical, but I've also thought of the possibility of Klavier having tinnitus that gets worse when he's under a lot of stress.

Image
And this, by far my favourite. One thing with Klavier is that he has a certain gaze, and he hardly ever breaks eye contact (and I'll come back to that topic in a bit). But here he doesn't just avert his gaze from the player/Apollo, his eyes doesn't show at all. He looks sad, a bit defeated, but a bit relieved, too. A calm kind of sadness. It's worth noting his body language is completely relaxed, if anything his jaw might be slightly tensed, his posture is as it usually is. He looks upwards, as if musing over something, a little in his own head, but also as if trying to keep tears from falling (his possibly tense jaw suggests that, too). It's vulnerable, but calm and somehow in control with how he chooses to hide his eyes, and that, all things considered, feels very Klavier. This sprite is keeping its distance but it also feels very honest, especially in combination with what he says when he's doing it, and how he says it. Because we know Klavier - he's flashy and showy, he's a glimmerous fop: I think I used the word "personas" in regards to this:
Klavier:
So, who have you come to see?
Trucy:
Huh?
Klavier:
Klavier, lead vocalist for the
Gavinners?
Klavier:
Or Prosecutor Gavin, scourge
of the courtroom?
But I kind of want to take that back and say that rather than personas, it's he, used to be on stage and a celebrity, has learnt to control what he consciously puts out there of himself than the average person. The thing being, I think he's always being himself, and being true to himself. He doesn't act flashy and showy, he is flashy and showy. But right here is probably the most unguarded we see him, which might come across as more genuine (although I wouldn't completely put "guarded" and "not genuine" as equals - Klavier has a certain self awareness but also some sense of genuineness in his straightfowardness). Not Klavier, lead vocalist of the Gavinners, not Prosecutor Gavin, scourge of the courtroom, but Klavier Gavin, pure and simple.
Klavier:
Kristoph... It's over.
Kristoph:
K-Klavier!!!
Klavier:
The law is "absolute"...?
You can't be serious.
Kristoph:
Wh-What...?
Klavier:
Odd. I thought you spent your
life looking for loopholes?
Klavier:
The law isn't absolute. It's
filled with contradictions.
(...)

Image
To end with something less serious, and pretty irrelevant since it's not a courtroom sprite, I think this is pretty interesting, because I've always thought of it as looking cocky and arrogant, then I read some blogpost saying the person writing thought of it as nervous-looking, and since then I do, too, with (as the blogger pointed out) he looks away, and fiddles with his hair. And that smile... it looks rather forced and unnatural. Re-playing AJ with this in mind, I noticed that yes, the instances in which this sprite is used are situations where it would make sense for him to be nervous/unsure, but trying to hide it with an arrogant grin.
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The last one I always thought was his usual persona towards his fangirls,and he show some it quite a lot in 4-2. So maybe that's why he's so nervous
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Ahaha. The thought of him being nervous because of fangirls is pretty sweet. "Little me inspires this sort of frothing desire from the Fräulein masses...? Oh, golly gosh!"
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Neat, GfM. :kristoph: You should be a professor in Klavier Gavin-studies.
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Hee hee. Thankya. Yes yes. And the study object may jam cram knowledge into my head with his tongue, as he said he would (in a dream).
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Haha, yes, keep your promise, Gavin! xD
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Major spoilers for GS6

Why is Nahyuta a bitch in Japanifornia?
I’ve seen a lot of criticism about Nahyuta’s character, but one that comes up quite a lot and that I simply don’t get is the question why he acts a jerk in Japanifornia, where he’s supposedly not monitored by Ga’ran and the regime. My understanding of this argument is that it’s based on the premise that his behaviour is nothing more than a façade. From this perspective, learning about his situation appears to make his character up to that point fall apart and stop making sense, even though some explanations have been offered, such as the panopticon-effect, him being paranoid and so on. Which could make sense, if the assumption that he’s acting the way he does due to the blackmailing and nothing else was true, but I argue it’s not. Not only because of my own interpretation, but because Nahyuta himself says so:

“Even as you used my sister against me… …I still believed you. I believed that protecting your secrets was in the best interest of this kingdom. But you…! You have been deceiving me all the while…!”

Nahyuta feels deceived by Ga’ran. He acknowledges Rayfa was used against him, but that wasn’t what his loyalty stood and fell by, he truly did believe that what he was doing was the right thing in the grand scheme of things. Therefore, my take on him is that his ruthless attitude and stern beliefs represents what he really thinks at the time. Under influence, surely, but still genuine, more genuine than he might come across as at first glance. For instance, in case 2 he seems quite intent to keep Apollo from going astray and claims that harsh words are often necessary to awaken the foolish and so on, and replaying that case knowing everything from case 5, I can’t help but think that maybe, just maybe, he does try to express some actual concern, severely misplaced, but still, about the possibility of his putrid brother going to hell.

In any case, I believe that Rayfa and Amara might have been what got him under Ga’ran’s influence in the first place, and the last hook to keep him from turning against her once he started getting away from her mentally and learning the truth, but most of all she managed to make him do her bidding on his own account, because he was so entangled in her web he actually believed what she was feeding him.

Therefore I think it is interesting how Nahyuta himself describes Ga’ran as having developed a “cult of personality”, because his situation seems to have a lot in common with cult members. Especially with the religion aspect – I don’t recall any mention of whether Nahyuta already was a monk prior to Ga’ran getting to him, or if that happened afterwards, but seeing as Khura’in is a very religious place in general it’s easy to see how the highest religious authority in the country could have used his faith against him (especially since said authority also happens to be related to him, I presume), as all his talking about the will of the Holy mother, the pits of hell and so on reflects.

Reading about the “brainwashing” techniques cult leaders might practice, this one reminded me of Nahyuta: “The agent introduces a new belief system as the path to "good."” (http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/i ... shing1.htm), as well as the part about being forced to condemn and keeping distance from friends and family with the “wrong” beliefs - he seems to have barely spoken to Dhurke since getting caught up with Ga’ran, and is ready to prosecute him (at least in theory; he does seem very torn but trying to convince himself it’s the right thing to do), and after the trial in case 2 he says that him and Apollo are “once again strangers”, with no “further need to interact”. But as far as his convictions go, case five insinuates that Dhurke’s teachings has remained within him as an unshakable core belief, one that starts to resurface once everything else goes shaking. I think he was always at least partially aware of it, and I think he loathed himself for it. With that in mind I started to think about defense mechanisms, and was curious to refresh my memory from the high school psychology classes and see if any could apply to him.

Nahyuta and defense mechanisms
I’m gonna start with intellectualization, simply because it fits the moment that made me want to analyze Nahyuta in the first place, the moment where he truly started to resonate with me. Specifically, it was this frame:
Image
For context, Apollo is confronting Nahyuta about prosecuting Dhurke and asks him whether he’s really prepared to do it:

Apollo: “Be honest. You really don’t want to do this, do you?”
Nahyuta: “…Ahh. You speak of love and sentiment. (…) I do not deny such human emotions. But… the law is the law. And placing personal feelings above it is beyond reprieve. …Do you disagree?”
Apollo: “W-well… I don’t disagree, but…”
Nahyuta: “Civilizations only exist due to the confines of the law. Without them, love and sentiment would lack the fertile soil they need to flourish. Do you disagree?”
Apollo: “No, but…”
Nahyuta: “The law must be obeyed. This truth sits above all else, including personal feelings. Therefore, whether or not I am the son of the accused is of no consequence.”
(…)
Apollo: “(I know I’m right, but… did he have to be so eloquent about his point? It’s like he’s trying to cover something up with his pretty words.)”

“When a person is attached emotionally to an issue, they may be tempted to consider it in intellectual terms. This often involves standing back from the situation and attempting to take a cold, neutral view of it.” (https://www.psychologistworld.com/freud ... nisms-list) “Rather than deal with the painful associated emotions, a person might employ intellectualization to distance themselves from the impulse, event or behavior.” (https://psychcentral.com/lib/15-common- ... hanisms/2/) So basically, yeah, what Apollo says. What I find interesting about this scene is that not only does Nahyuta try to intellectualize the matter to himself (obviously, since we wouldn’t get to see it if he did it in his own head), he also seems to be seeking Apollo’s approval of his arguments. “Do you disagree?” The first time he says it, it starts with “…”, as if it were an afterthought following his line of reasoning, the second time it looks more direct, and coupled with the face he’s making, almost desperate. And it makes me feel his pain right through the screen.

The second defense mechanism I recognize in Nahyuta, although that one is more speculation than the first, starts with a p and rhymes with “objection”. “This involves individuals attributing their own thoughts, feeling and motives to another person. Thoughts most commonly projected onto another are the ones that would cause guilt …” (https://www.simplypsychology.org/defens ... nisms.html). My interpretation is that this is partly what causes his rude behaviour (other than that he is, pure and simple, a bitch). He’s having thoughts he can’t accept, he’s still holding out for Dhurke to save the day, this all goes against his current world-view so let’s deal with it by saying that everyone else is putrid, low-life, foolish, sentimental, straying from the right path and so on, not him.

This anger could also potentially be attributed to displacement, “the redirecting of thoughts feelings and impulses directed at one person or object, but taken out upon another person or object. People often use displacement when they cannot express their feelings in a safe manner to the person they are directed at. The classic example is the man who gets angry at his boss, but can’t express his anger to his boss for fear of being fired. He instead comes home and kicks the dog or starts an argument with his wife. The man is redirecting his anger from his boss to his dog or wife” (https://psychcentral.com/lib/15-common- ... hanisms/2/). In his case, maybe it could be anger towards his entire situation that can’t be expressed, so he goes to court and kicks the defense attorney… figuratively. This, of course, assumes some kind of awareness of his circumstances on a level I personally don’t really think he’s on during most of the game, unless you can displace subconsciously, anyhow I think it’s interesting to consider.

Acceptance, or as Nahyuta likes to put it, “resignation”, and introjection, i.e making other’s viewpoints and ideas your own, are two other defense mechanisms I think applies to him, in fact, introjection, at least if I understand it correctly, is pretty much the foundation of his situation when it comes to believing what Ga’ran is feeding him. In regards to that, there is also “identification with the aggressor”, which definitely sounds like what could have happened when he dealt with Ga’ran’s threats by becoming, as… Datz (I think?) put it, her “lapdog”.
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Ah, that was really good! Makes a lot of sense I think. :butzthumbs:

Quote:
which definitely sounds like what could have happened when he dealt with Ga’ran’s threats by becoming, as… Datz


I thought the sentence ended there, though, and I'm a bit too amused.
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Thankya! I'm not done with his character yet... I liked him from the start but when I was replaying the game a while ago, he grew on me even more. :edgey:

Quote:
I thought the sentence ended there, though, and I'm a bit too amused.

It's as they say: if you can't beat 'em, become as Datz.
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Haha, I guess I'm doomed to disagree with you on prosecutors who face Apolllo or something, GfM.

While I might have been rather harsh on the guy, I will say he's...well, no. He's my least favourite character in the whole series. But that doesn't make him completely bad.

I really do like his design, his theme and just everything about him as long as he doesn't speak honestly. His character in Japanifornia had a lot of good moments too. The rakugo thing in case four, the little conversations that come up about the Burger Barn and such in case 2...honestly, if they had focused on that part of that personality a little more, I would've liked him. I do understand that he has a reason for keeping quiet, but balancing his character like this wouldn't hurt IMO. He has potential to improve in AA7 for sure. I hope the writers use this opportunity well.

....Rereading this, I realise that might be the most backhanded compliment I've ever given, so I'm just gonna become as Datz and get outta here.

Alley-oop! running noises
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Wassup, witchy baby!

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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

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Quote:
Haha, I guess I'm doomed to disagree with you on prosecutors who face Apolllo or something, GfM.

Indeed. xD Him and Klavi both get their fair share of disapproval from the community in general, but I love them! :D

Quote:
His character in Japanifornia had a lot of good moments too. The rakugo thing in case four, the little conversations that come up about the Burger Barn and such in case 2...honestly, if they had focused on that part of that personality a little more, I would've liked him.

Agreed, I appreciate those little flashes of humour and excitement he shows from time to time. I hope he can let that through more in the future, whether or not we as players are there to see it or not =)
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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