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Author: | Going for Miles [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Major spoilers for GS6 Nahyuta’s character arc and relation to Apollo seen through Perl’s layer theory, part 1 (This got waaaay longer than expected, and it's about Nahyuta, but I'm writing this for my own amusement anyway, so if anyone besides myself actually reads it I'll consider it a bonus xD) One of the first things Ema says about Nahyuta in case 2, before we have met him ourselves, is that he’s “hard to read” and “doesn’t really share his thoughts”. He is indeed a bit of a tough nut to crack(-a-lack) and reach through, though I think there is a lot to find, if one is willing to look for it. I definitely was when replaying SoJ, especially during case five from “Do you disagree?” and forward I found myself focusing a lot on him, and I personally think Nahyuta delivers as a character who may not have the kind of capturing presence as prosecutors before him such as Edgeworth or Simon, but is fascinating and intriguing in his own way. I think Turnabout Revolution is without a doubt the case where he’s at his best, for various reasons, but I always liked him, because he’s a total bitch for one. It defied my expectations – judging from his fairytale prince-like appearance and the floating shawl and gorgeous smile, his profession as a monk and him being called “the last rites prosecutor”, I was expecting some well-mannered, calm, holier-than-thou-kind of character, then he comes along and is rude as shit, gives people stupid nicknames, makes threats about getting tickled for five million years in the afterlife and getting reborn as a reverse panda or a stinkbug, and gets attacked by his own beads resulting in him falling on his arse in every case he appears in. That’s not to say he doesn’t get “way over the top as far as verbal abuse goes”, as Athena put it in case two, and speaking of Athena, his treatment of her in case four was definitely his lowest point – not only was he rude, but downright cruel at times. Still, there’s something about the very concept of a bitchy monk that I can’t not love although it certainly wouldn’t have been enough to keep my interest in him up to the end (or to case five). I recently stumbled upon Fritz Perl’s five-level structure of neurosis and thought that it reminded me of a certain someone, so I thought I’d try to view Nahyuta’s arc with that theory, including his relationship with Apollo – because we mainly get to know him through Apollo’s eyes, plus his arc is mainly set in motion with the help of Apollo. It is also nice to see how it changes throughout the game. But first of all, what was he like before this “neurosis”, or crisis? From flashbacks and how other characters – Apollo and Dhurke – talk about him (and in Apollo’s case, think about him), the child Nahyuta is described as “kind and cheerful” and “very smart”, but Apollo also complains to himself that Nahyuta has always been really stubborn about his beliefs. He also took Dhurke’s teachings to heart and had a strong sense of justice and determination. At first glance, he seems to have made a complete 180 from his child-personality, but later, it becomes apparent that a lot of this has seemingly remained in his very core, and re-surfaces throughout the game. Spoiler: The cliché layer Spoiler: The role layer Spoiler: Personality leakage |
Author: | WaitingforGodot [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Ah, neat-o, I like the idea to use Perl's (wrote "Pearl's" at first) layer (now I wrote "lawyer") theory. :D You're dedicated! Nahyuta would be proud. |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Thankya. Yeah, it felt like it gave it more substance. :) I'm curious about Pearl's lawyer theory. Haha, great. I get easily immersed in prosecutors I find interesting ![]() |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Major spoilers for GS6 Nahyuta’s character arc and relation to Apollo seen through Perl’s layer theory, part 2 Spoiler: The impasse layer Going into the trial, Nahyuta is clearly (still) not his usual self. He’s quiet, zoned out, stutters when asked a question – even the judge feels that he has to raise his concern. The gallery starts gossiping until Dhurke shuts them down because his son is perfectly capable of prosecuting his own father without personal feelings getting in the way, thank you very much. To which Nahyuta answers that “I will not stop until my work here is done”. While supporting his son even for his own prosecution feels like a very Dhurke thing to do, Nahyuta’s reply is pretty ambiguous. Since Dhurke seems to have grasped the basics of Nahyuta’s situation, it’s possible to imagine that the conversation, at least from Nahyuta’s part, was more about protecting the rest of the family, and Dhurke encouraging him to do so. Which is pretty grand from a guy that is already dead, but still. Or something else was this “work” he was referring to… in any case, we never get to know more about that, because right then, Ga’ran steps in and declares Nahyuta unfit to prosecute. Hearing this, Nahyuta protests and acts very upset for someone who clearly didn’t want to prosecute in the first place. Surely, nothing good will come from the queen herself stepping in in his place, but even so, I can’t help but get the feeling that Nahyuta had something in mind that Ga’ran effectively stopped him from doing… like losing the trial on purpose (he’s a smart guy, he could probably find a way to do it without it being too obvious). Spoiler: The implosive layer Other than gritting his teeth, we don’t see much of Nahyuta’s reaction when the theory of Dhurke’s death is ultimately proven true, since the focus is on Apollo, but it’s a breaking point. Especially after Apollo manages to pull himself together and carry on, and seeing Apollo’s newfound determination Nahyuta says, clutching his beads: “…A…pol…lo……?”. This is important. It’s very important, because up until this very point, Nahyuta has only called Apollo, his brother, “Mr. Justice”, and that’s when he’s being nice. But while Apollo finds hope in the situation, Nahyuta finds the opposite. “Hmph. So ultimately, it was all for naught. (…) Those dreams of revolution Dhurke was always spouting… They placed nothing but false hope in the minds of the people. And in the end, they were simply fantasies. (…) Satorha! Karma has spoken. The dream of revolution has withered on its vine. Its fate is sealed. The other insurgents will soon wake from their shattered dreams.” In some way, he almost comes across as relieved: the flames of revolution have died down, or so he thinks, nothing more can happen. And then, to add salt to the wounds, his own mother claims that she was the one who killed Inga. Spoiler: The explosive/authentic layer One last thing I find sweet about him is, when he wants something from people he appreciates, he approaches them in a very direct way that comes across as almost childlike. It’s especially noticeable after the last trial of case 5, where he simply takes Apollo to Dhurke’s old office and says: “I want you… to stay in Khura’in”, without any forewarning. “I cannot do this without you”. Not surprisingly, Apollo is taken aback by the sudden request, which Nahyuta later acknowledges and just asks him to “please give it some thought”, and although it was a bit too abrupt and put Apollo on the spot, it was endearing in how very earnest it seemed. All in all, the set-free Nahyuta is very direct, and can be a bit forceful. We can see this in the very last scene as well, where Apollo complains about all the cases he’s got on his table, with Nahyuta telling him off because they have a lot to do, and is he gonna help him reforming the court system or not? But he also has humour, and a just heart, even though he needs a bit of encouragement (or a lot) to get to action, but when he does, he’s absolutely ruthless, to the point of being extremely stubborn and even reckless when it concerns something, or someone, he cares deeply about. And cares deeply he does, in his own Nahyuta-way, and when set free once and for all, his language and entire behaviour subtly changes, and he does have something alluring about him, an unfeigned kind of charisma, both firm and charming. |
Author: | WaitingforGodot [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Oh Yuty! ![]() This was a really nice and emotional read! ![]() |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Hee hee. Thanks! And thanks for reading it! ![]() |
Author: | WaitingforGodot [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
![]() ...and I want to revisit the game, haha. I must admit that this helped even more since I thought, earlier today, that I wanted to revisit case 5 because of the atmosphere and all, and here I read a long essay about Yuty. ![]() |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Do it. And then write your own super-long Nahyuta-essay, and we'll clog this thread with Nahyuta. |
Author: | WaitingforGodot [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Mwahaha. >:D |
Author: | Southern Corn [ Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:50 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Going for Miles wrote: Do it. And then write your own super-long Nahyuta-essay, and we'll clog this thread with Nahyuta. Not if I can help it! >:D I think this is the right thread for this, so correct me if I'm wrong. I really like Casting Magic as a name over Spellbreaker. Sure, at first it may sound pretty straightforward, but it's actually pretty subtle. Spellbreaker obviously refers to the 'spell' of Labyrinthia being broken, but I actually think it's too direct. Casting Magic is much more subtle. The Magic being referred to in the song's title is not a spell from a witch's staff. It's Logic! I think it actually works well because that's basically what happens when the pursuit theme plays. You're casting magic on the people of Labyrinthia- the magic of logic. Hence, I think Casting Magic works better as a name for the PLvsAA pursuit theme. |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
It's the Nahyuta agenda! Good points, I prefer Casting magic too. |
Author: | Southern Corn [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
After replaying 4-1 recently, I just have to gush on this case as a certain somene in it. This is going to be mostly on 4-1, but I'm also going to add a little on 4-4. Right, 4-1. Where do I start? This is one of the best first cases in the series, and maybe cases, period. This was a bloody amazing introduction to the game in general. You start off as somene you don't know with some mentor you don't know. Let me talk about Kristoph's sprites for a moment. ![]() ![]() ![]() He appears very pleasant initially, and you can definitely see the resemblance to Mia's sprites here. He acts very much like the normal mentor figure to Apollo and helps ease him in. Then the trial starts, you see the good old judge and Payne's new hairdo (which actually looks great btw) and then the defendant is pulled in. Oh, and he's also Phoenix Wright. This is one of my favourite parts about AJ, just the general dissonance created with the player. Just the way he looks and acts is so weird, so uncharacteristic of him but yet so intriguing. Then the testimony starts. Can I just say I love the cross examination theme of this game? It perfectly sets the mood of the game, especially this case, which takes place in a dark room deep underground with a shady past where a man was killing during a game of cards. I think it's perfect to play this in a cold air conditioned room to perfectly recreate the general atmosphere of this case. Another thing I really love are the contradictions here. You really have to keep your eyes out for them, especially in this case. The first one is admittedly simple, but the second one needs you to point out two things in quick succession for the game to progress. Olga Orly is also a good witness and an even better red herring. She pretty much fits the bill of the average first killer, too. But yes, the contradictions. The second one is also neat since it's math-involved and needs you to look at the chips carefully. The later ones are great though. Things like 'Wait, how did you see the blood on the victim's forehead if his hat was on?', and the contradiction involving the victim's hand. My personal favourite is the one involving the fingerprints on the grape juice bottle just because of how subtle it is. The reasoning with the bloody ace is also great because of just how much you could deduce from that. Plus, it was never really presented as evidence in the first place so its legality is certainly never brought up again. I think this case really elevates itself at its second half, when the fourth person is revealed and Orly's innocence is established. Then when Kristoph is accused, all hell breaks loose. It's something you'd never expect, since you'd think he would just be Apollo's Mia the whole way through. Heck, he's even on the cover art. You'd never suspect him of being the tutorial villain. I like Phoenix's second testimony just because of the Look at how Kristoph's expressions have changed, too. ![]() ![]() ![]() No longer the nice and wise mentor from the first part of the case, eh? But when he breaks down, you can really tell that he's stifling a lot of anger within. And when he just admits it and is escorted out, we're just left wondering what his motive was, who the victim was to him, what the locket means, and why Phoenix is as he is. It's absolutely jarring to the player and I love it. And yeah, those are my feelings on the case, but I have to speak on Kristoph more. The popular consensus is that he's a terrible villain because his motive for everything is just because he lost at poker. I vehemently disagree with that sentiment. Hell, I think that's what cements him as a solid villain in the first place. It's no more petty. to him than the penalty to Manfred was in DL-6. Think about it from his perspective. It all really started when Zak fired him as his Defense Attorney because he lost at poker. The game tries pretty hard to justify this, but I think we all can agree that playing poker to determine who your lawyer will be is a pretty crappy idea, and you probably shouldn't do it if you want to have a chance at living. But then instead Zak- a world famous, extremely popular magician- instead foregoes Kristoph- who is seen as one of the best DAs of his time- for Phoenix Wright- who is seen as someone who uses just bluffs and guesses to win by many. In light of this, Kristoph (who had already forged some evidence, determined to win the case at first) goes to his brother and warns him not to trust Phoenix. Then he spends years and years in paranoia that his forgery could be revealed, which really fits his character. At the end of it, Kristoph is- as Vera describes him- a devil. It's damn startling how his tone changes throughout the trial. ![]() ![]() ![]() These are his initial expressions, similar to those from 4-1. ![]() ![]() ![]() These are his later expressions, where he starts to get annoyed. ![]() ![]() ![]() And these are what I've eloquently termed the 'loosing his shit' expressions. Name says it all, really. It's wonderful how you slowly but surely manage to break his façade to reveal the monster he truly is inside. Look at this: ![]() This is his 'confident' expression according to AA wiki, which he uses a bit in 4-1. But add a few lighting effects and KABOOM! ![]() It's downright frightening how such subtle a change can change his overall demeanour so much. Admittedly, I will say that the final trial in 4-4 was a little bit short, but I don't think it really needed to be any longer, since a good deal of the plot was made pretty clear on the MASON system segment. But I love the way he's caught in the end- by the Jury System, something Phoenix orchestrated to catch him, as sweet sweet payback. But yeah, that's all. I've rambled on a lot here, admittedly, but I really do love this case as well as its villain so ****ing much that I had to just gush about it. This game as well. AJ might as well be one of the best games in the series and it is a goddamn shame how underappreciated it is within the community. Maybe I should talk about it's later cases Moreno too, because I think they're also great. But that's really all that I have to say here, so…g'day! |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
I agree about his motive. It's not so much about the poker game, which was merely the catalyst, but rather about the underlying values like Kristoph's extreme sense of pride and self-importance that was hurt, and how he clearly sees Phoenix, who got to take over the defending, as "below" him. Just like Manfred killing Gregory wasn't so much "over a penalty" but because that penalty shattered his perfect score he'd been working so hard to achieve and valued so highly. I also find it worthy of mention that the pokergame cost him the case where he'd gone to extreme lengths to ensure winning over the 17-year-old overly confident rookie who just so happens to be his brother. Looking at his sprites I noticed he always seems to have his arms folded or at least one arm covering his upper body (except for when he's standing in court, which might be where he's in his element the most) and depending on context, facial expression etc it either can come across as confident, or like he's hiding/protecting himself or just losing it (his shit). ![]() ![]() His body language and facial expressions are also quite interesting to compare to his brother's. They both have sweet smiles, and really pouty sour expressions when things don't go their way. They both have animations where they look away and flip their hair, but Kristoph does it when he's distressed and Klavier looks cocky (but also slightly nervous, at least to me). They both have a confident posture, but while Kristoph, as mentioned, has his arms folded in front of him, Klavier's body language is usually very open and relaxed, which suits their personalities - Kristoph distances himself from others and has secrets to hide, Klavier is open and laid-back (and a bit of a show-off). This is also seen in how Klavier usually looks straight ahead, making eye contact with the person he's talking or listening to (notable exception being the one where he tells off Kristoph and looks up instead, his hair covering his eyes), while Kristoph often has his glasses dimming his gaze, or his eyes closed, or looking away, or making eye contact but from below or above the players "eye-level". When Kristoph is at his cockiest, he looks at you from above (with or without creepy shadowing) - he looks down on you. Compare this to Klavier's sprite where he's bending himself over to keep eye contact - which might come across as a bit condescending to, but in a more playful/teasing way where he goes out of his way to -not- look down on you and instead confront you straight ahead. (I was just going to reply to some points about the last post... instead I ended up going on a tangent of my own xD Somehow I always end up talking about Klavier ![]() |
Author: | Southern Corn [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Frigging Klavier, man :p But yeah, it's kind of become tradition at this point for him to be the focus of this thread. But yeah, I noticed that too. He seems to really like folding his hands a lot, and often tightens his grip on himself when he loses it. In his final breakdown, his hands also freak out a lot: ![]() ![]() ![]() Especially in that last one, geez. It's like they're trying to curl into a fist but just not quite getting there. Oh, and this one also gets me: ![]() As you mentioned with Klavier, he's very open about himself and makes eye contact with whomever he talks to. But as we can see with Kristoph, he tries very hard not to make eye contact with anyone and in this sprite hides his face while laughing evilly. It's pretty interesting to speculate just what exactly he's laughing about here. Is it about the jurist system? Is it about getting caught? Who knows. I've actually read a theory somewhere that his breakdown and everything is actually his black Psyche Locks getting forcibly broken by Apollo, hence leading to him going insane, which would actually seemingly fit with DD's half-assed explanation. Interesting to think about, at least. |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
Quote: Frigging Klavier, man :p Ehehe~ Quote: But yeah, it's kind of become tradition at this point for him to be the focus of this thread. Indeed. ![]() Quote: In his final breakdown, his hands also freak out a lot: Such monster hands :o And so he loses his grip of himself and clutches at thin air... how deep. Quote: Especially in that last one, geez. It's like they're trying to curl into a fist but just not quite getting there. Imagine the cramps he must have in the hands after that. Quote: It's pretty interesting to speculate just what exactly he's laughing about here. Is it about the jurist system? Is it about getting caught? Who knows. Mm. I've always interpreted it as being about the jurist system because he seemed to think it was a fraud and a disgrace. Quote: I've actually read a theory somewhere that his breakdown and everything is actually his black Psyche Locks getting forcibly broken by Apollo, hence leading to him going insane, which would actually seemingly fit with DD's half-assed explanation. Interesting to think about, at least. I like that theory too. And the one that at some point he started thinking he was completely justified in his actions. What I'm curious about is how he fared after all of this. I once started reading a fanfiction about his life in prison but I never really bought that he'd still be so calm and calculated and... himself. I can't see how he'd ever go back to that after this breakdown. |
Author: | Southern Corn [ Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
I was discussing this with someone yesterday, but Furio Tigre is a surprisingly intricate character. He's extremely ridiculous, but also pretty neat. He has a lot of parallels with Phoenix, but also some huge differences. They're both named after large beasts, both have spiky hair, and both have female sidekicks. They're also both pretty smart despite how dumb they look at first, if not a bit ridiculous. Phoenix comes up with reasonable scenarios while bluffing the hell out, while Furio comes up with an extremely intricate plan to frame Maggey using Kudo as a witness…but also goes to court wearing a cardboard badge pretending to be Phoenix. And that's where the similarities end, surprisingly. In terms of design, Furio's contrasts Phoenix completely, and he's much more brutish. But when he's cornered, he goes all wimp and just pleads with the judge. For Phoenix, it's totally the other way around. He's totally meek normally, but when cornered he becomes much more courageous and goes for it. This is actually quite an interesting part of Furio's character. He uses brute force to achieve his goals, such as coercing Armstrong into his plan. But he's actually quite cowardly when it comes to the meat of it. For example, he poisoned Elg. He didn't stab him or shoot him in an alleyway, but discreetly poisoned him. I find that fascinating, really, since it shows that despite his strong persona, he's quite cowardly in reality. That's also another parallel to Phoenix. He poisoned Glen Elg, just like Dahlia attempted to poison Phoenix. That's also why Phoenix hates him so much. Because he poisoned and betrayed two people, something he can never forgive. So yeah, the Tiger's quite interesting. |
Author: | Going for Miles [ Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
I agree. He's a really absurd character and it would've been easy to leave him at that and he'd still be an entertaining villain, but even though he's one of the more "cartoonish" characters he's still not one-dimensional and I appreciate that. I also like that he rides a pink little scooter. |
Author: | Southern Corn [ Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Characters/Cases analysis |
The pink little scooter is the best. It doesn't complement him in the slightest and I love that. It's like Phoenix's ringtone, actually. |
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