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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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As much as I'd like to see Mia, I really hope she doesn't help out in court. Phoenix is well beyond the need for that by now.


Yeah, I hope that if there is a Mia appearance it's just a one time cameo. Like maybe she says Hi to Phoenix at the end or something. Because it's unfair to Phoenix AND Maya. The whole point of Mia 'leaving' at the end of 3-5 is both Phoenix no longer needs a mentor, but also Maya should have finally gotten some amazing new power from all her training, not just be some kind of hotline to Mia as all she's 'for'.

Also I think Mia 'leaving' meant maybe she was hanging around closer to the mundane world because she had unfinished business, but now she's in the ghost afterlife or whatever happens in GS Reality.


Anyway in this thread some people are complaining Maya hasn't changed enough (which I don't agree with at all) and she shouldn't still be training to 'become Master'.

Yeah perhaps Maya looks about 20 not 28 but I don't care. But yeah if she really STILL isn't Master of Kurain Village/Japanese America it sounds like the plot that 'should' have happened when she was 20-21 not now? Becoming Kurain Master was by inheritance not meeting a power level aside of being the stronger 'sister'. Since Misty officially died in 3-5 she stopped being Master so Maya should have officially gotten the title or maybe when she was 21 or something. Hopefully this thing that still hasn't happened is some kind of external recognition by the Kurain Country, like a higher qualification. Since Maya supposedly hasn't been working for Phoenix since the 'disbarring' there's no reason it'd take this long to train.
I guess we just have to wait.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title

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icer wrote:
Anyway in this thread some people are complaining Maya hasn't changed enough (which I don't agree with at all) and she shouldn't still be training to 'become Master'.

Yeah perhaps Maya looks about 20 not 28 but I don't care. But yeah if she really STILL isn't Master of Kurain Village/Japanese America it sounds like the plot that 'should' have happened when she was 20-21 not now? Becoming Kurain Master was by inheritance not meeting a power level aside of being the stronger 'sister'. Since Misty officially died in 3-5 she stopped being Master so Maya should have officially gotten the title or maybe when she was 21 or something. Hopefully this thing that still hasn't happened is some kind of external recognition by the Kurain Country, like a higher qualification. Since Maya supposedly hasn't been working for Phoenix since the 'disbarring' there's no reason it'd take this long to train.
I guess we just have to wait.


Here's the thing about Maya "changing". We haven't seen her interacting with anyone but Phoenix and of course she's going to revert a little with Phoenix. She's comfortable with him and just excited to see him again. Phoenix is going to turn into a big kid with Maya around too. In fact, while Phoenix's stunned bug eyes upon seeing Maya were nice, the giant, crushing hug wasn't there and I'm left disappointed.

As far as her design, the only thing I might have changed would be her hair style to a bun or maybe just down and loose. Even so, the top knot is iconic. It's her distinct silhouette so I can forgive it. Maya's always looked young, too. Maybe that's just from them using the same sprite from 17-19, but she just has a youthful appearance. Now that she's 28, that's working to her benefit.

I'm waiting to see how they handle the title of Master of Kurain. She should already be Master even if she's still "in training". Maybe there's some debacle over the whole thing and that's why Phoenix is there. He's defending his girl's honor as usual. It's too early to say.

Based on what little we've seen, Maya has changed pretty much exactly enough. I don't know what people were expecting. It's been a long time, but she isn't going to transform into a different person. Well, no more than she already does.
Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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If Maya can pull off a sexy Mia voice when she was 17, she can pull off a sexy Maya look now that she's 28. That is all I have to say on that.

That Maya has yet to become officially pledged in as the Master may suggest it's a conscious decision on her own or the clan's part. She's been abroad training a different kind of training than what she's gone through at Hazakura, and I think it already shows improvement. Sure, the standing-in-a-freezing-waterfall kind of training seems to be similar between cultures, but in that footage we've gotten of Maya, she mentions it's just one step and that she's completed enough to be ready for the next level... whatever that may entail.

I highly doubt Mia will show, unless Pearl is confirmed for the main game and she channels Mia for Apollo and Athena's sakes. As I said, she won't be able to offer much to Phoenix since he can figure out things for himself, and even if he doesn't, Maya can even lend a few words of advice. She's done so before and isn't afraid to rub it in his face again.

So, that leaves me to wonder. What other things can she do with spirit channeling besides simply channeling a spirit? Perhaps channeling an audience? I seem to recall Mia was capable of such a thing before she passed. Whether or not that means only hearing those people or actually seeing them... is getting me psyched up!

Finally, there will be a reason to use dated popculture references to the Sixth Sense!
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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I still think it'd be alright to channel Mia. I mean...just because you grow up doesn't mean you aren't faced with new challenges. They'd just be different in nature, Phoenix has never really had to mentor people before and Mia is someone with experience in that that he knows.

It would be more of a supportive role rather than someone who just shows up to tell Phoenix the answer in court. If Apollo of Athena have another trial of faith or confidence its Phoenix's job to try and fix that and Mia is someone he could believably turn to for solutions.

Plus there's the actual reason many people turn to seances and mediums: to see their loved ones.

He might simply ask Maya if he could talk to her just to catch up, just for comfort to talk to another old friend. Honestly I could see them using it for a lot of nice quiet moments. Even if its only to have Mia say how far Phoenix has come I still think I'd like to see it.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Pierre wrote:
He might simply ask Maya if he could talk to her just to catch up, just for comfort to talk to another old friend. Honestly I could see them using it for a lot of nice quiet moments. Even if its only to have Mia say how far Phoenix has come I still think I'd like to see it.


:mia-maya: "good job phoenix you wasted seven years of your life failing at playing the piano while countless innocent people were condemned by our crappy court system"
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Is it just me, or did her... um... "chest area" grow a bit? Either that's the product of 3D animation, or just late-blooming.

Either way, I'm not going to complain. :oops:

That aside (*cough), people don't really change THAT much as they age. Her "looking 18 instead of 28" is just the result of her personality. I'm GLAD they didn't mellow out her character just to show that she got older like they did with Pearl.

In other words... she looks just fine.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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This is...!
This is such good news!! Welcome back Maya!*he says like she's a real person*

But seriously, wow. After 8 years or so, just the fact that "where is Maya!?" will become less of an "all-consuming" question is a huge shift.
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nevertalk wrote:
icer wrote:
Anyway in this thread some people are complaining Maya hasn't changed enough (which I don't agree with at all) and she shouldn't still be training to 'become Master'.

Yeah perhaps Maya looks about 20 not 28 but I don't care. But yeah if she really STILL isn't Master of Kurain Village/Japanese America it sounds like the plot that 'should' have happened when she was 20-21 not now? Becoming Kurain Master was by inheritance not meeting a power level aside of being the stronger 'sister'. Since Misty officially died in 3-5 she stopped being Master so Maya should have officially gotten the title or maybe when she was 21 or something. Hopefully this thing that still hasn't happened is some kind of external recognition by the Kurain Country, like a higher qualification. Since Maya supposedly hasn't been working for Phoenix since the 'disbarring' there's no reason it'd take this long to train.
I guess we just have to wait.


Here's the thing about Maya "changing". We haven't seen her interacting with anyone but Phoenix and of course she's going to revert a little with Phoenix. She's comfortable with him and just excited to see him again. Phoenix is going to turn into a big kid with Maya around too. In fact, while Phoenix's stunned bug eyes upon seeing Maya were nice, the giant, crushing hug wasn't there and I'm left disappointed.

As far as her design, the only thing I might have changed would be her hair style to a bun or maybe just down and loose. Even so, the top knot is iconic. It's her distinct silhouette so I can forgive it. Maya's always looked young, too. Maybe that's just from them using the same sprite from 17-19, but she just has a youthful appearance. Now that she's 28, that's working to her benefit.

I'm waiting to see how they handle the title of Master of Kurain. She should already be Master even if she's still "in training". Maybe there's some debacle over the whole thing and that's why Phoenix is there. He's defending his girl's honor as usual. It's too early to say.

Based on what little we've seen, Maya has changed pretty much exactly enough. I don't know what people were expecting. It's been a long time, but she isn't going to transform into a different person. Well, no more than she already does.


Personally, I always took Maya to be one of those Alyson Hannigan types that always look kind of young. Other than that, yeah, I'm not sure what else they could've done with her design other than what they did. She's matured just enough in the face, but if they tried to make her look more like Mia, she could end up looking too sharp and unrecognizable. There are plenty of women over 28 that look like Maya, and this is a softer-kind of character to begin with, so I don't think Maya needs to conform to a specific image of womanhood.

I don't know about everyone else, but as a Maya fan, I don't a super-serious, humorous version of this character. Actually, the trailers kind of play with that concept a bit. I don't know Japanese, but when you watch these new videos of Maya, they start dramatically with Maya cloaked or in shadows, speaking very softly. Like they're trying to scare fans into thinking: "Oh no, she's super-masterly, she's not fun anymore!" Then later, she starts joking around and the "Turnabout Sisters" music kicks in, inviting everyone to sigh in relief that she hasn't lost her pep. Maybe my opinion will change as more info comes out, but for now, I think they're headed in the right direction.
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RisanF wrote:
Personally, I always took Maya to be one of those Alyson Hannigan types that always look kind of young. Other than that, yeah, I'm not sure what else they could've done with her design other than what they did. She's matured just enough in the face, but if they tried to make her look more like Mia, she could end up looking too sharp and unrecognizable. There are plenty of women over 28 that look like Maya, and this is a softer-kind of character to begin with, so I don't think Maya needs to conform to a specific image of womanhood.

I don't know about everyone else, but as a Maya fan, I don't a super-serious, humorous version of this character. Actually, the trailers kind of play with that concept a bit. I don't know Japanese, but when you watch these new videos of Maya, they start dramatically with Maya cloaked or in shadows, speaking very softly. Like they're trying to scare fans into thinking: "Oh no, she's super-masterly, she's not fun anymore!" Then later, she starts joking around and the "Turnabout Sisters" music kicks in, inviting everyone to sigh in relief that she hasn't lost her pep. Maybe my opinion will change as more info comes out, but for now, I think they're headed in the right direction.


Maya was never going to look like Mia, I'm glad they didn't decide the only way she's 'allowed' back is to look like Mia in Maya's Body.
The other route could have been her being super creepy and mystical for a cameo at the end.
But no, this is about the same level of 'change' we see on Pearl (who aged to look about 12?) so it's kind of what we'd expect from these writers. And personality changes don't do a 360 during adulthood unless something drastic happens (i.e. Phoenix being disbarred, Ema failing the science exam...) so I don't know why people think there 'should' be one, particularly relating to her, um, best friend. I hope they let her be a bit more confident and competent in her powers though, canon Maya (GS1-3) seemed really insecure with regard to the Kurain Master thing away from Phoenix. That's the kind of personal growth we'd hope would have occurred if they are respecting her character.

As for the 'reveal' though, I think at least in the anime scene we are supposed to not know it's Maya at all and then lovellly surprise. Maybe it's the first appearance during the game? vs Oh hi Maya I didn't expect to see you here whatever. Aren't they replicating that picture of Ami Fey from the original games?

Anyway in that 3DS theme that we probably won't get with the dot sprites, both Maya and Phoenix are holding up their magatamas but they are both green (ie. not the goldish one around Maya's neck). Does this mean during the game Maya has another magatama and their powers will fuse and implode the universe? Or make two halves of a love heart. But it probably doesn't mean anything....
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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icer wrote:
Anyway in that 3DS theme that we probably won't get with the dot sprites, both Maya and Phoenix are holding up their magatamas but they are both green (ie. not the goldish one around Maya's neck). Does this mean during the game Maya has another magatama and their powers will fuse and implode the universe? Or make two halves of a love heart. But it probably doesn't mean anything....

I recall a single split second from the spring trailer where it shows an instance of Bokuto presenting a plate with a large green magatama cake (at least it looks like a bun) on it to Nick. Based on that dull green color, I can assume from the 3DS theme pic the two are enjoying the exact type of cake.

It's certainly a nod to their sweet relationship as friends who go on dates maybe, nonetheless.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
I recall a single split second from the spring trailer where it shows an instance of Bokuto presenting a plate with a large green magatama cake (at least it looks like a bun) on it to Nick. Based on that dull green color, I can assume from the 3DS theme pic the two are enjoying the exact type of cake.

It's certainly a nod to their sweet relationship as friends who go on dates maybe, nonetheless.


I didn't know about the Magatama Cake, but yeah that does sound like a reasonable explanation doesn't it? Especially Maya and food. Oh well, no awesome new power.
Also why they're huge.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Not sure. Guessing that it's a symbol of blessing one with luck, fortune, and prosperity. It is a charm that wards off ill spirits, after all. I wonder if the blessing only works if you offer it up to someone else, instead of munching away on one's own. That may explain why they both got some cake - from each other.

Plenty of east Asian customs are like this. Tibetan-like Kurain should be no exception.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
icer wrote:
Anyway in that 3DS theme that we probably won't get with the dot sprites, both Maya and Phoenix are holding up their magatamas but they are both green (ie. not the goldish one around Maya's neck). Does this mean during the game Maya has another magatama and their powers will fuse and implode the universe? Or make two halves of a love heart. But it probably doesn't mean anything....

I recall a single split second from the spring trailer where it shows an instance of Bokuto presenting a plate with a large green magatama cake (at least it looks like a bun) on it to Nick. Based on that dull green color, I can assume from the 3DS theme pic the two are enjoying the exact type of cake.

It's certainly a nod to their sweet relationship as friends who go on dates maybe, nonetheless.


Found it. It's in the demo trailer.

Image

Still, they're holding those Magatamas aloft in the 3DS theme and cake doesn't work that way. I choose to believe they're presenting Magatamas together like the nerds they are.

Unrelated question, any translation of Maya's introduction footage?
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nevertalk wrote:
Still, they're holding those Magatamas aloft in the 3DS theme and cake doesn't work that way. I choose to believe they're presenting Magatamas together like the nerds they are.

It's 2D pixel art, man. Of course they're gonna hold them upright. :-P

Quote:
Unrelated question, any translation of Maya's introduction footage?

;)
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title

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So that confirms it. It's been two years since they've last seen each other. I honestly wasn't expecting them to address that or try and convince us that they hadn't seen eacth other since the disbarment. I'm glad they made it something relatively reasonable.

It still doesn't explain why Pearl asked if Phoenix had seen Maya recently, though. If Maya's out of the country, of course he hasn't. Unless Maya's known for sneaking out of an entire nation to see Nick for the weekend or something. :maya:
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I swear, if they do to Maya and burgers/noodles what they did to Trucy and panties in Dual Destinies, I think I just might hurt someone.
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You'd be offended if Maya pulled a burger out of her panties?
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Jean Descole wrote:
You'd be offended if Maya pulled a burger out of her panties?


I mean if they just have her repeat "burgers" every other line.....
Thanks for the imagery, though! :nick-sweat:
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Jean Descole wrote:
You'd be offended if Maya pulled a burger out of her panties?

not if she lets me eat it afterwards
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AceAssistant wrote:
Jean Descole wrote:
You'd be offended if Maya pulled a burger out of her panties?


I mean if they just have her repeat "burgers" every other line.....
Thanks for the imagery, though! :nick-sweat:


I know, I'm just messing with you :-P

I'd probably be annoyed, too, if they portrayed her with no hint that she was an actual human outside of her love of burgers. (And the panty cookies in DD were just wrong.)
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Jean Descole wrote:

I'd probably be annoyed, too, if they portrayed her with no hint that she was an actual human outside of her love of burgers. (And the panty cookies in DD were just wrong.)



Yeah these writers do have a problem with presenting characters as just bad caricatures don't they? We can hope since Maya is back as a 'main' they tried a bit harder?
But put it this way, the game is more likely to be something that can be easily fixed with fanfiction even if it's not our dream game. Vs that we're supposed to believe Maya just happens to be too busy training in a cave 2 hours away for the last 10 years to ever see Phoenix again.

Quote:
It still doesn't explain why Pearl asked if Phoenix had seen Maya recently, though. If Maya's out of the country, of course he hasn't. Unless Maya's known for sneaking out of an entire nation to see Nick for the weekend or something. :maya:


I think this confirms though they they sure weren't planning GS6 when they made that. They just decided they had to throw us some garbage likely as an afterthought since they couldn't get by another game without mentioning Maya's name. But since GS5 was successful enough that GS6 was commissioned, and there was that poll of JP fans where Maya scored highly despite not even being in a game for 10 years or something, the fans didn't forget about her even with some new Athena and some older Pearl, so there are only so many ideas one can have for new games in this franchise. So a ret-con had to be made up :will: I don't expect them to cover the disbarring though. GS5 avoided most of the really important stuff from GS4 to start with, it's not a proper sequel.

In this light though, it explains GS4 Hobo!Phoenix's character a bit better. Look what happens when Maya leaves him all alone. He turns into a decrepit hobo and forges cards and corrupts a jury trial! This is good for shipping, right?

LateSummer wrote:
Hi everyone, I'm back for a bit because it's a public holiday (yayy) :edgey:

Just a heads-up because I thought you guys should know, there's been a big blow-up in the Narumayo tags on tumblr and not in a good way. :larry: It seems that a group of people --I highly suspect that this particular group of people is young and new to the fandom-- have decided that the Narumayo ship is disgusting (they have the mistaken idea that it's pedophilic--they clearly don't understand what the term means), ergo any Narumayo shippper is also disgusting. So disgusting that it warrants tumblr vigilantism which has culminated in anon hate telling shippers that they are poisonous and a danger to kids, outing, singling out and shaming etc. You know how it is.(what is with the black and white mentality of some tumblr users?!) I'm not too sure about the extent of damage caused, but I do know that people like minouze-drawings (mod for asknarumayo) has left the fandom and Jesidres has deleted her sideblog (it was a nice sideblog, too :( ) And to make things worse, these people have twitter accounts, too. I'll let you guess what they're doing with those.

(God, I hope to high heaven they never find this place :sad-maya: :sad-maya: :sad-maya: )


Oh yeah, maybe this isn't a good idea, but can anyone explain this to me? I only started looking at Tumblr on my phone recently because I have some time at the moment...
There are all these posts referencing it without what anybody is actually referring to...

So far as I can tell though nobody is really 'triggered' by P/M thought. They are just little trolls. They have heard of this trigger thing and are mocking it. Which is doubly insulting because some people have legitimate problems, that's why it's polite to write trigger warnings on fanfic and soforth when people do like to write non-canon stories about characters being abused.
Spoiler:
Like on the PW Kink Meme people might write a story about Apollo being raped by Kristoph or something, and that needs a trigger warning, because someone who'd been raped and wasn't expecting the story to be like that might actually have that horrible memory return to them and get an attack of PTSD like they're back in that situation.

Nobody is going to be triggered by pictures or stories about a nice consensual relationship between consenting adults. The games only start any shipping hints in GS2 when they make a big deal that Maya has become an adult in words of one syllable. And by now they're practically middle aged? Here the age of 'consent' is 16 anyway (no idea about the USA) so it's not pedophilia even in the 1st game. ( I wouldn't ship it then though, I don't think anyone does!)
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Hey so regarding the database that we were talking about a few pages ago...
I'm currently going through a career change, which entails learning about such things as databases and web development. There are still some things I have to learn, but I think I've picked up the skill set necessary to put together something that we can use. I can't give an ETA due to other things going on, but I'm just posting here to let you all know that there is something in the works (and mentioning it here means that I'll be motivated to actually do it, haha...)
So yeah, if anyone here knows this stuff, I'd definitely appreciate the advice too...

I'm willing to pay for hosting btw: I'll need to for my other projects anyway and it's not like a database of this scale is going to take up all that much space.

As for requirements, something like this I guess? :
Spoiler:
- Registered users will be able to submit entries to the database with fields for
source, url, title, author, genre(s), rating, summary (any others?)
- When something is submitted it is seen in a separate “awaiting approval” table where contributors can review it.
- Should it be fanart too or just fanfics?
- Database will be searchable based on fields

Having an account system (role names pending):
- Guest: only be able to search
- Contributor: above + can submit new entries for moderation
- Moderator: above + can approve/disapprove submitted entries
- Editor: above + can edit existing entries + can promote contributors to moderator status
- Others?
• Maybe have some additional way of promoting users so that this can be somewhat self-sustaining.

- Have a “comments” function where users can leave comments about a particular story
- Personally I’m against having a straight up “vote” system for fic recs, for the reasons icer mentioned earlier.
- Anything else?
Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Yayy the prologue video for GS6 has been released!

I'm relieved Maya doesn't seem to be on trial for murder yet
In another context I'd complain this was very convoluted, but hey this is how Phoenix acts with Maya. ship ship ship.

Still annoyed she still doesn't seem to be Kurain Master though. Geez what has she been doing during the 7 years? Not 'being Kurain Master' apparently. It'd make sense if Phoenix hadn't been disbarred.... or if she stayed around to look after him, which was never alluded to at all. Maybe they will give us a desirable ret-con to explain this, but they seem to act like gaps between games don't happen. This is why Maya wasn't in GS4 and 5 forget whatever else [?]

Quote:
Hey so regarding the database that we were talking about a few pages ago...
I'm currently going through a career change, which entails learning about such things as databases and web development. There are still some things I have to learn, but I think I've picked up the skill set necessary to put together something that we can use. I can't give an ETA due to other things going on, but I'm just posting here to let you all know that there is something in the works (and mentioning it here means that I'll be motivated to actually do it, haha...)
So yeah, if anyone here knows this stuff, I'd definitely appreciate the advice too...

I'm willing to pay for hosting btw: I'll need to for my other projects anyway and it's not like a database of this scale is going to take up all that much space.


This is excellent news. I only know front end web development so I wouldn't want to do it by myself but I can help you out (if you want).

The only issue I can think of is that there is a Tumblr blog that more recently has been archiving P/M stories (tumblr does have tags so there is some sort of categories, searching possible) . But I don't think there's a problem with having more than one site about this kind of thing. There could even by like cross-linking to the tumblr site or something (?)

And we can also link/archive notable things like fanart sites (for example those JP ones which are about the pairing), writings about the pairing, whatever. (I would have said so to start with but this also means it's not merely unnecessary replication of that tumblr site.) Of course not every fanart in existence or something but maybe a few notable things or ones people submit themselves. This makes it easier to find P/M content/shippers etc, more than just searching Tumblr.
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Did Misty have to go through all of this to become Master, too? I suppose that will be revealed in this game, but it makes me wonder exactly where she was in her training when she did the DL-6 channeling.
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icer wrote:
Maya was never going to look like Mia, I'm glad they didn't decide the only way she's 'allowed' back is to look like Mia in Maya's Body.
The other route could have been her being super creepy and mystical for a cameo at the end.
But no, this is about the same level of 'change' we see on Pearl (who aged to look about 12?) so it's kind of what we'd expect from these writers. And personality changes don't do a 360 during adulthood unless something drastic happens (i.e. Phoenix being disbarred, Ema failing the science exam...) so I don't know why people think there 'should' be one, particularly relating to her, um, best friend. I hope they let her be a bit more confident and competent in her powers though, canon Maya (GS1-3) seemed really insecure with regard to the Kurain Master thing away from Phoenix. That's the kind of personal growth we'd hope would have occurred if they are respecting her character.

As for the 'reveal' though, I think at least in the anime scene we are supposed to not know it's Maya at all and then lovellly surprise. Maybe it's the first appearance during the game? vs Oh hi Maya I didn't expect to see you here whatever. Aren't they replicating that picture of Ami Fey from the original games?

Anyway in that 3DS theme that we probably won't get with the dot sprites, both Maya and Phoenix are holding up their magatamas but they are both green (ie. not the goldish one around Maya's neck). Does this mean during the game Maya has another magatama and their powers will fuse and implode the universe? Or make two halves of a love heart. But it probably doesn't mean anything....


I also wonder if some people think 28 is, like, really old or something. It's not, really. I think maybe this line of thinking is encouraged by Apollo Justice!Phoenix becoming a shady, mysterious mentor at the grand old age of 33. I mean, I know RPG characters are usually about 15 or so, but Phoenix and Maya are still in the prime of their lives.

Anyway, Maya from the prologue seems to be the right mix of poise (waterfall training) and goofball (talking with her mouth full on the phone). And honestly, the heartfelt way they talk to each other makes them look even more like a couple, so much so that sinking this ship would be a lot more effort than its worth.
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So... about that animated prologue... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIGHgrDOZiI
It's like Bridge to a Turnabout all over again, huh? :pearl-blush:
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Just popped in the express my pure joy!

Also I'm very confused about this tumblr stuff. Why is it happening?

Personal note, I had a boyfriend 7 years older and it wasn't abusive! We met at university it was totally normal!
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Quote:
I also wonder if some people think 28 is, like, really old or something.

i once saw someone try to justify edgeworth's crappy DD voice by saying that he's old and doesn't have much longer to live
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Maya wrote:
Just popped in the express my pure joy!

Also I'm very confused about this tumblr stuff. Why is it happening?

Personal note, I had a boyfriend 7 years older and it wasn't abusive! We met at university it was totally normal!



Yes well I have to some extent answered my own question by searching Tumblr, as far as I can tell these ship hate trolls don't always post publicly but send anonymous messages (asks) to people's blogs. Along with the NaruMayo haters (some of which do post on their public accounts voicing their disgust over this supposed age 'problem') some idiot has recently opened a blog called downwithnarumitsu and is possibly the same one supposedly sending Asks to P/E blogs saying 'Narumayo is canon.' (no further justification).

It's crossed my mind these people aren't necessarily very invested in either ship but just think it's fun to try and goad shippers into some shipping war.
It's not like this is 'debate' based on reasons or even personal opinions. There's just some false moralising that us shippers are disgusting to like this pairing. I'm pretty sure they know it isn't really a valid argument concerning this pairing and don't care, they just want something to complain about to criticise us shippers ourselves. I do wonder if they think it's some equivalent to those people who claim to hate yaoi and thus P/E, like fake 'retaliation'.

As for the genuine cases for P/E and P/M reading of the games I can't see that they're any different from ever. They've stopped forgetting about Maya existing but I don't really expect an elevation over the case we got for P/M at the end of 3-5 (I expect the happy sunset ending of 3-5 was as good as it gets for P/M unfortunately). But fanfic will hopefully be easier to write the pairing now.
As for P/E there's definitely a friendship which has a lot of emotions involved in either party, if people desperately WANT to reframe it as romantic I doubt P/M will be formalised to supposedly 'sink' their ship.
But this hate started way before Maya was announced so it's not sparked by some worry that P/M might be made explicitly canon. I know there are some people around who just don't like Maya as a character too...
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Mister Gruel wrote:
Quote:
I also wonder if some people think 28 is, like, really old or something.

i once saw someone try to justify edgeworth's crappy DD voice by saying that he's old and doesn't have much longer to live


I think this is just something that happens when people are young, that they think being in your late twenties is really old. I'd heard people say that they thought 50 was elderly, when RDJ is still Iron Man at 51, along with Tom Cruise's Ethan Hunt. Honestly, it makes me feel like Phoenix in the first Ace Attorney game, when Maya is giving him a hard time about being 24. So decrepit! So crotchety!
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The fact is, the relationship between Phoenix and Maya are far from just a normal friendship. I'm not into shipping or anything, but they are so important to each other, as we can see in the previous games and just now in the prologue for AA6, that it wouldn't be a surprise if they stay together in the end.

Also, I don't know why there are some people complaining about Maya not changing much, 28 is definitely not old. I'm 23 now and look almost the same as when I was 17. Am I Apollo or what?
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It's not as much the age gap that the anti-shippers have a problem with, but that Maya is 17 in the first game and that she assists Phoenix, so with him being her boss (in a way) he can abuse his power over her. I'm not making that up.

The only hints that Phoenix and Maya could be more than friends are in the second and third games, so there's no issue with this pairing.
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MBr wrote:
It's not as much the age gap that the anti-shippers have a problem with, but that Maya is 17 in the first game and that she assists Phoenix, so with him being her boss (in a way) he can abuse his power over her. I'm not making that up.

The only hints that Phoenix and Maya could be more than friends are in the second and third games, so there's no issue with this pairing.

Well now there is no problem. She's older than Mia was when she died. If Phoenix and Maya decide to take their relationship to the next level it's their decision as adults. I never thought that they should have gotten together in the first game. I thought what they had was a deep respect and cherishing for one another. But like you said it was too early for love. Now it's very possible Maya had a secret CRUSH on Phoenix. This might have started Pearl's point of view. With Maya gushing over what an awesome guy Nick is (something she would never say to him after all she's too young for him at this point and she'd aware of that.) Pearl being an idealistic child could EASILY mistaken a crush for love. Crushes can be easy to hide. But even early on you can see signs of it from Maya. But again that's a harmless crush. On Phoenix's end, it's harder to tell, with his hot and cold dialogue and even more extreme actions. One moment he's laid back and sarcastic, the next he's passionately running across burning bridges and busting down steel doors. The man is both emotional and aloof. But while he's shown extreme's for some people like becoming a lawyer to save Edgeworth, or adopting a former clients daughter. There is no doubt that he has shown to go to the most extremes for the people he loves, such as eating a glass bottle that used to house poison to save Dahlia. (The fucking She-Devil...) Not only that but he has shown to be almost completely mindless when it comes to the girls he loves being pinned for murder. In T&T both Dahlia and Maya were put in the position of being blamed for murder. In both cases Phoenix (instead of using his usual "crap it can't be!" or "no that's not right" and having to remind himself "I just got to keep trusting my client" to reassure himself) outright denies it as if the very notion is the most absurd thing. But unlike Dahlia he wasn't deluded or blinded with puppy love. Yet even so he was denying all evidence as if it were a personal attack. That's because it was personal, even if it could have been an accident, Maya was being blamed for murder and at this point he's so worried and scared for her the very notion only made him blind to anything else but what he in his heart believed. This above anything else to me tells me he was in love with Maya by the final case of T&T but as a man who has gone years without truly loving someone romantically, (after what happened the last time I don't blame him) noticing his own feelings would be difficult maybe even impossible at that time. However after years of being pen pals and phone buddies you'd think his feelings would falter right. Wrong. When Phoenix got a letter from Maya in DD he acted as if her short few words were a godsend. As if after all the pain he goes through at least Maya is still there even if only in spirit. This little letter was all he needed. I bet you any money every time he gets a message from her, every time he gets a package full of Steel Samurai merch, every time he gets a letter from her, it just brings joy to his life no matter how bad it gets. He still loves her, maybe even more than ever. But he's yet to act. But someone is CERTAINLY picking up vibes from him. Someone who knows the heart better than anyone. :athena:
"Follow Your heart out of the darkness! Stand up and rise from the ashes! Back to the start, far from the madness. Come alive again! Break off the chains of hesitation! Your voice will be your salvation! Look to the light of liberation waiting at the end!"
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Also this entire scene is adorable! Spoilers for episode 2 of the anime.
Spoiler:

"Follow Your heart out of the darkness! Stand up and rise from the ashes! Back to the start, far from the madness. Come alive again! Break off the chains of hesitation! Your voice will be your salvation! Look to the light of liberation waiting at the end!"
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Ucha Nekome wrote:
Also this entire scene is adorable! Spoilers for episode 2 of the anime.


Well now, that's a cute take on the hiring scene.
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MBr wrote:
It's not as much the age gap that the anti-shippers have a problem with, but that Maya is 17 in the first game and that she assists Phoenix, so with him being her boss (in a way) he can abuse his power over her. I'm not making that up.

The only hints that Phoenix and Maya could be more than friends are in the second and third games, so there's no issue with this pairing.


I don't take that as an argument for these ship haters though because aside from some weird hentai doujins actually about Mia, how many of us P/M fans even ship it then as more than maybe a one sided crush that Maya gets by the end?
I haven't seen us writing fanfics about some messed up boss/subordinate relationship. Almost any pairing can have some weird scenario in which case it 'would have been a problem' in the past or in some variation.
In my view it's part of the attraction of this pairing that they'd be friends for a while first, if it becomes romantic it's because they became attached over time. (And it's canon they became attached anyway, even if it's not explicitly 'romantic'). There was a connection even in 1-2 but it wasn't 'lust at first sight'.

And there isn't even proper evidence that Phoenix is Maya's boss. Mia is still around [when channelled] so for all we know her will left Maya the office too. I don't think Maya gets paid or anything. It's not a proper employee thing. And especially in the first game it's like Mia is still the Chief, not Phoenix.

Ucha Nekome wrote:
Also this entire scene is adorable! Spoilers for episode 2 of the anime.


Now I do like this, maybe even better than the game.
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As far as I'm concerned at this point it's stupid to even bring up the age difference. Maya is 28 now. She's an adult and perfectly capable of choosing for herself whether or not to take their relationship to the next step. (Hell the woman's older than I am.)
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The Maya and Phoenix coupling makes the most sense as they hold a very special place in each others heart.
I hope AA6 will deliver at least some supportive evidence for our ships. Not to mention Maya is over 28 and Nick is over 35 and if they are thinking of getting offsprings to keep the bloodline going on, they need to do something about it as soon as possible; especially on Maya's part as her eggs are already past of their prime times.
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knight210 wrote:
The Maya and Phoenix coupling makes the most sense as they hold a very special place in each others heart.
I hope AA6 will deliver at least some supportive evidence for our ships. Not to mention Maya is over 28 and Nick is over 35 and if they are thinking of getting offsprings to keep the bloodline going on, they need to do something about it as soon as possible; especially on Maya's part as her eggs are already past of their prime times.


LMAO

No. Just... no.

While it's true that risks with pregnancy will increase with age, 28 is hardly too old to have a healthy child.

Hell, Morgan was at least 40 when she had Pearl. The window is still very much open for Maya.
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To be honest, I hope that the upcoming game doesn't do anything definitive with the relationship. Maybe "definitive" isn't the right word, so I'll explain. It's a complex relationship (but then again, everyone has complex relationships in this series), so I think it's best to keep it in a way that allows for different interpretations. The trilogy and Layton vs. Wright handled their relationship in a way so you could interpret it as romantic or close friendship.
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