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Re: First thought on hobo Phoenix?Topic%20Title

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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
Tick Tick Boom... wrote:
Felt sorry for him as he is now an alcoholic (let's not pretend we don't know what 'grape juice' means) bum, but he seems to really care for Trucy...and god damn he's cute. :hobohodo:

Really? Because I still think it's grape juice. XP
It'll surely sadden Trucy if his life span gets cut shorter so I don't think he's the type to drink. Well, just my opinion, anyway. :yuusaku:

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I think it is. His life was chucked into the gutter and he'd have to deal with it somehow. I think maybe they made it grape juice to tone the extremeness of it down, but I think Phoenix was hurting pretty bad over it. Using Apollo to change the court system. He had his own values, but the way he talks- you can feel he doesn't want this to happen to others. That's how I see it.
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Of course, that's the more logical way it went down. But I can dream. So, now, "grape juice" becomes a euphemism for "wine."
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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
Tick Tick Boom... wrote:
Felt sorry for him as he is now an alcoholic (let's not pretend we don't know what 'grape juice' means) bum, but he seems to really care for Trucy...and god damn he's cute. :hobohodo:

Really? Because I still think it's grape juice. XP
It'll surely sadden Trucy if his life span gets cut shorter so I don't think he's the type to drink. Well, just my opinion, anyway. :yuusaku:

Hello, Perma Stubble! XDD


Even Edgy drinks "Grape Juice" ;D

When I first played AJ.....(reminiscence theme starts playing) I kept thinking "Oh gosh, that hobo looks like Phoenix...No!...The hobo can't be Phoenix!" (And then I crawled under my desk and started hating Apollo because I had no one else to blame back then)

Good old times.
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i may be a newbie but ive finished EVERY game and ive just got to say DON'T DISS THE HOBO NICK, HE IS EPIC, :hobohodo: especially at poker :seeds: :seeds: :seeds:
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Re: First thought on hobo Phoenix?Topic%20Title

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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
Of course, that's the more logical way it went down. But I can dream. So, now, "grape juice" becomes a euphemism for "wine."


Wine is grape juice ^^; I don't know if the Japanese have a word for wine, and the Americans likely kept it as grape juice for the rating. What does the Japanese version call it? Not Sake I hope. That's rice wine.
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I screamed, and threw my DS against the wall. This broke both the DS and the game inside. No shit. Fortunately, I'm rich and collect DSes, and it was just a bland green one, so I didn't feel remorse. I bought another copy of the game.

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You know, I wasn't that upset at what Capcom decided to do with Phoenix. I was just happy to know that he would still be in the series. I think its hilarious that he now has an important job with the judiciary, yet he still walks around in a hoodie and sweat-pants :hobohodo:.
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I still can't fully grasp the once sarcastic, clueless lawyer Mr. Wright is now an even poorer, vague hobo
Spoiler:
with a daughter who isn't really his daughter.

Although, Nick did go through really drastic changes. Maybe he could have changed differently, but he definitely had to change some way.
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:wellington-crazy:

But then that awesome hobo grew on to me...
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Before playing AJ, I had no idea Nick was even gonna be in it. My reaction:

"Oh hi, it's my client, he looks a little roughed-up. What's with the beanie, and why is he looking at like that? .... "
*his name shows up on the convo box*
"HOLY #^@#^%$&% THAT'S PHOENIX?!?!?!?!"

And then he smiled. And I melted. Why is that he's 33 and dresses like a Hobo, but is now 10x hotter? >__<

My heart was breaking apart as I played 4-4, and I just felt so sad for him. It still breaks when I hear the "Reminisce - Forgotten Legend" theme =( What concerned me was that he seemed to be all alone 'cept Trucy afterwards.. where were his friends? =(

But his personality got more awesome (Chessmaster ftw! XD) People complain he changed, but we're not playing as him, so we don't know his inner thoughts anymore, but his sarcasm and determination for the truth is still there. Plus, after that trial, he seemed more concerned about his client than his own well-being (he felt like he failed his client more than "omg I'm gonna lose my job"), just like the old Nick we know and love.

But he's Phoenix, now that he's been cleared of the suspicions, he'll rise from the ashes, right? (even though his Japanese name isn't phoenix-themed, the dragon is immortal and powerful too, right?)

I think he is probably drinking grape juice, since I don't think he can afford wine >__<
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MapleRose wrote:
I think he is probably drinking grape juice, since I don't think he can afford wine >__<

For some reason, I can't help but quote your posts. :P
Even if it is wine, I refuse to think he drinks alcohol. Not only he wouldn't be able to afford it (he drinks a ton of grape juice), he doesn't seem drunk at all. After drinking some, he goes to play Poker and still wins EVERY TIME. But... do you think the Borscht Bowl Club just gives all the grape juice to him for free, so he doesn't have to pay?

Does the Japanese version even call it wine?

(Wait, in 4-2, Trucy got mad at Phoenix for bringing in grape juice to the Hickfield Clinic. Hospitals don't allow grape juice?)
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Alice wrote:
MapleRose wrote:
I think he is probably drinking grape juice, since I don't think he can afford wine >__<

For some reason, I can't help but quote your posts. :P
Even if it is wine, I refuse to think he drinks alcohol. Not only he wouldn't be able to afford it (he drinks a ton of grape juice), he doesn't seem drunk at all. After drinking some, he goes to play Poker and still wins EVERY TIME. But... do you think the Borscht Bowl Club just gives all the grape juice to him for free, so he doesn't have to pay?

Does the Japanese version even call it wine?

(Wait, in 4-2, Trucy got mad at Phoenix for bringing in grape juice to the Hickfield Clinic. Hospitals don't allow grape juice?)

Same sentiments there. Though Trucy may've gotten angry with him because it is grape juice. >.> But yeah, I can't see him being wasted and stuff. I'm hoping it's a really good joke, at best. Like, Capcom makes you think it's wine when it's not.
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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
Alice wrote:
MapleRose wrote:
I think he is probably drinking grape juice, since I don't think he can afford wine >__<

For some reason, I can't help but quote your posts. :P
Even if it is wine, I refuse to think he drinks alcohol. Not only he wouldn't be able to afford it (he drinks a ton of grape juice), he doesn't seem drunk at all. After drinking some, he goes to play Poker and still wins EVERY TIME. But... do you think the Borscht Bowl Club just gives all the grape juice to him for free, so he doesn't have to pay?

Does the Japanese version even call it wine?

(Wait, in 4-2, Trucy got mad at Phoenix for bringing in grape juice to the Hickfield Clinic. Hospitals don't allow grape juice?)

Same sentiments there. Though Trucy may've gotten angry with him because it is grape juice. >.> But yeah, I can't see him being wasted and stuff. I'm hoping it's a really good joke, at best. Like, Capcom makes you think it's wine when it's not.

Apparently it is "grape juice" in the original Japanese as well according to some fans. But yeah, other than not being able to afford it, if he was drinking alcohol, then they'd have to question his logic during the trial (even if he does have a high alcohol tolerance, nobody drinks a crate of wine like that and not get drunk).

Haha, I'm not sure if he buys the juice or gets them for free... maybe they give him a discount?

As for why Trucy got mad at him for bringing grape juice, maybe it's not all that healthy (sugar and all that)? Like some parents don't allow their kids to drink too much soda or eat too much candy?

-----

I just finished replaying 4-1, and I shed tears of happiness when I heard Nick shout "Objection", and then his Objection theme from AA started playing... I forgot how epic that was *tear* :acro:
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My first thought was... WTF?

THat was the shocker that made made me want to slap the game..honestly, who thinks of that?

Then again... he was always poor as an attorney...
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@MapleRose: True on so many levels--the very reasons why I never thought it would be alcohol. As you guys said, if anything, Trucy adopted him. I'd see this as an adorable part of their relationship. Trucy needs to watch over her daddy, after all.
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I knew it was him prior to playing AJ because of Objection. I would never have believed he would play poker for a living. It was totally Phoenix for him to fly 30 ft, hit a telephone pole and then walk off. :hobohodo: You can't stop Phoenix.
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When I first played AJ, I had mixed feelings about hobo!Phoenix but that was probably because I read a spoiler about it before I got the game...

At the very beginning, I was like "Nooo! Why, Capcom, WHY?!" :beef:
In the middle of 4-1, when Phoenix decided to be completely AMAZING and shout his "Objection!" (complete with his signature point), I thought that hobo!Nick was a pretty cool guy. :hobohodo:
But now, after completing the game multiple times, I kinda think hobo!Phoenix is a really big jerk... please don't hate me!
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I never really though of him as a "hobo" and frankly... he isn't


He does seem much wiser though, and I like that
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Before I played Apollo Justice, I read a few spoilers on Wikipedia. So I knew that Phoenix was Apollo's first client, that he had been disbarred, and that he was now a pianist. But I didn't know what he looked like (I had seen some AJ artwork, but I never imagined that the guy with a hoodie was Phoenix). Because I knew he was a pianist, I actually expected him to look classy.
So when I saw him in the game... my first thoughts were something like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!".
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I found out Phoenix went hobo..

AFTER PLAYING THE FIRST GAME OF ACE ATTORNEY! CAN YOU IMAGINE?! URGH
i felt pretty sad and fucked up..I tortured my sister(who doesn't play ace attorney) by saying "NUUU WHYYY"..and she was like "T_T"

knowing the spoiler..I still went on and finished both jfa and t&t then went through aj, well actually I hesitated for a long time to play the flashback because i knew i was gonna cry and my heart would be heavy. The break lasted more than months!
He didn't change..but he changed...he is such a great character, he does not deserve it.
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So a prosecutor submitting forged evidence = penalty, while a defense attorney submitting forged evidence = disbarment.

That's real fair....

Oh well, at least in 4-1 Phoenix got to ruin the career of the same person who ruined HIS.
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I knew that Phoenix was the first client and knew about his disbarrment, but I hesitated playing AJ for a while, because he looked like he did. Also, AJ didn't really appeal to me. But when I did, the following ensued...

"Oh god, Hobohodo... facial hair, how I hate it... bleagh..." and I finished the first Case, wondered what so great was about this perceive system that wasn't properly explained, then I got to the post-trial conversation and Phoenix smiled. "Hey, up close you're kinda cute!"
Hobo Phoenix made me realize how hot a 30 year old father can be.

C-A
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My first impression when I played the first case was like "Whoa, THAT's Phoenix wright? I had no idea until Payne/Judge mentioned his name :X"

He sounded pretty cooler/mature.

And then when he nonchalantly used "forged evidence" as a means to jail Kristoph I was like "This seems pretty OOC of Wright...But I LIKE this direction they took on him".


And then when we got to know through the mason system why he ended up the way he was, I didn't feel any sympathy for him because he deserved what was coming to him by not seeing the obvious/being so lightly trustworthy of a random person giving him evidence out of nowhere...

And then it clicked: Phoenix is one nice anti-hero who planned for 7 years to get revenge against kristoph...He can sugarcoat it all he wants "I'm just pointing justice in the right direction", but at the end of the day, he completely changed the justice system/simply manipulated Apollo to get at Kristoph at the end of the game, all in the name of revenge. He was rather cold and calculated about the whole thing.

It's why I'm hoping, for GS5, we see him as a villain; a tragic-hero to take down.
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Huddini wrote:

And then it clicked: Phoenix is one nice anti-hero who planned for 7 years to get revenge against kristoph...He can sugarcoat it all he wants "I'm just pointing justice in the right direction", but at the end of the day, he completely changed the justice system/simply manipulated Apollo to get at Kristoph at the end of the game, all in the name of revenge. He was rather cold and calculated about the whole thing.

It's why I'm hoping, for GS5, we see him as a villain; a tragic-hero to take down.



It would be interesting but he's hardly viable for conviction based on his actions in the game. A civilian in court produced a card with a trace of blood on it and as he said it was Kristoph's reaction that gave him away even if it wasn't the real card anyone could see he was guilty or that there was more to the case after his reaction. He was pointing out that the system is flawed when it can be blatantly obvious someone is guilty but they lack crucial evidence (something he probably experienced in the Engarde case).

While maybe he fell somewhat to Kristoph's level in terms of revenge it was a necessary change he had made and I think it was implied Edgeworth or Franziska helped him do it so it's hardly like he's went totally renegade on the law system.
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Pierre wrote:
I think it was implied Edgeworth or Franziska helped him do it

Really? I haven't played in a while, so I don't remember that. Can you elaborate?
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Jozerick wrote:
Pierre wrote:
I think it was implied Edgeworth or Franziska helped him do it

Really? I haven't played in a while, so I don't remember that. Can you elaborate?


He makes an offhand comment about an 'overseas friend' who helped him set it up.

Just that and I think I recall Edgeworth mentioning something about how the German legal system has some advantages over the American courts at one point.
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Pierre wrote:
He makes an offhand comment about an 'overseas friend' who helped him set it up.

Just that and I think I recall Edgeworth mentioning something about how the German legal system has some advantages over the American courts at one point.


Like how german courts pretty much obligate a lawyer to present evidence that the defendant is innocent, unlike in some american laws?

Or that the defendant is always the first person to be asked to testify - even if they have a right to not do so?

Hey, was it ever mentioned in PW, that witnesses can refuse to answer single question because it would implicate themselves to a crime?

Then again, I always found that to be like a confession that you did do something, so I can understand why some people would rather lie at that point and get thrown into jail for a year for false testimony.

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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
He makes an offhand comment about an 'overseas friend' who helped him set it up.

Just that and I think I recall Edgeworth mentioning something about how the German legal system has some advantages over the American courts at one point.


Like how german courts pretty much obligate a lawyer to present evidence that the defendant is innocent, unlike in some american laws?

Or that the defendant is always the first person to be asked to testify - even if they have a right to not do so?

Hey, was it ever mentioned in PW, that witnesses can refuse to answer single question because it would implicate themselves to a crime?

Then again, I always found that to be like a confession that you did do something, so I can understand why some people would rather lie at that point and get thrown into jail for a year for false testimony.

C-A


Err...Edgeworth doesn't go into detail in the quote I'm thinking of. Though the trickiest the series actually gets with law is during the Engarde case with Adrian Andrews, doesn't she refuse to testify? I think they do more or less treat it like an admission of guilt in that scenario.
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Well, Phoenix also refuses to testify from a certain point onwards in Case 1 of AJ. Nothing is ever really said about it, but it is finally mentioned by Phoenix that there is such a thing as refusing to testify. At least for him as a defendant, never really mentioned for a witness in any other situation.

But then the PW court system, wether it's a take on the Japanese law system or a different one, always struck me as strange. Even if you committed justified self-defense, you are basically at fault for murdering someone - rather true, but in real world court, it would be treated as self-defense or homicide at the most.

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My first thoughts: "Nick, you're soooooo boring."
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Clearly he felt and looked like a different person entirely. For me, I felt hints of derangement and just disappointment, but he also felt much larger and more important than he ever did despite his attire.

To me there is a clear attitude change that removes him 500% from his previous demeanor which I actually didn't enjoy. In the first three games he was never actually sharp - he had his moments but he always pathetically stumbled to get to them. The only reason he became an attorney was to...you know...TALK TO EDGEWORTH, so that explains that.

So when I saw hobo Phoenix I was like c'moooooonnn this is not Feenie. He's not supposed to be this wised-up father figure, like 'ahhhh I know a thing or two...' NO YOU DON'T! Even in the Mason system I felt severely like I was witnessing two different characters when acting as him and when listening to hobo Feenie.

I dunno, he seemed way too removed and way unlike himself to a fault. I assumed he'd eventually don the suit again by the end of the game, but was further disappointed when that wasn't the case.
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Did anyone else here pick up on the irony of Phoenix using forged evidence to ruin Kristoph?
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Kinda D'uh moment. Of course. As they say, Payback's a bitch. And nothing's better than the sidedish of irony with it.

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CatMuto wrote:
Kinda D'uh moment. Of course. As they say, Payback's a bitch. And nothing's better than the sidedish of irony with it.

C-A


And that's probably why "Turnabout Trump" is my favorite tutorial-case of the entire series.
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Smithee wrote:
Did anyone else here pick up on the irony of Phoenix using forged evidence to ruin Kristoph?

I actually thought it was kind of jerkish. Phoenix was basically using Trucy the same way she had been used by Kristoph. And Apollo could have been disbarred because of the forged evidence.
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Jozerick wrote:
Smithee wrote:
Did anyone else here pick up on the irony of Phoenix using forged evidence to ruin Kristoph?

I actually thought it was kind of jerkish. Phoenix was basically using Trucy the same way she had been used by Kristoph. And Apollo could have been disbarred because of the forged evidence.


Of course it was jerkish. But it was a good point to show - the Law is written in a way with so many loopholes, it really gives criminals a lot of ways to get off. A reason why I don't blame certain people to commit "self justice" in certain situations.

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I played Apollo first, so I didn't have a situation where a reaction would be had. I do, however, think it was the right thing to do with the character.

If you play Apollo first and then play the trilogy, knowing he eventually gets disbarred adds to the plot a bunch. And after T&T it makes thematic sense. How interesting would it have been to have Phoenix just be a successful lawyer during AJ? If you're going to have him in at all, he needs some sort of development that interesting and adds to the character. And the disbarment story is that development. And the fact that he doesn't give up and instead takes on the whole freaking Legal system that's accused so many of his innocent clients makes total sense from a narrative standpoint.

Hopefully the creators of GS5 realize how big a change this was for Phoenix and how much more complex and wonderful his character became and honor that by not regressing to T&T Phoenix. A Phoenix with the profession and passion of the original with the calmness and confidence of the disbarred one will be an awesome character.
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Quote:
And the fact that he doesn't give up and instead takes on the whole freaking Legal system that's accused so many of his innocent clients makes total sense from a narrative standpoint.


I'm pretty sure they'll keep shoving Innocent Clients onto us in GS5, too. I mean, aside from 2-4, all the clients were innocent - well, some did do Accessory to Murder (which was the actual "crime" in 2-4) or Tampering With Crimescenes (3-5, 4-4) but nobody did anything really, really bad.

Although it would be fun to play as Phoenix, learn that your client is absolutely, 100% Guilty and then you get various options on what to do - my personal favorite would be "Tell Client Off And Break Contract".

C-A
Re: First thought on hobo Phoenix?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
And the fact that he doesn't give up and instead takes on the whole freaking Legal system that's accused so many of his innocent clients makes total sense from a narrative standpoint.


I'm pretty sure they'll keep shoving Innocent Clients onto us in GS5, too. I mean, aside from 2-4, all the clients were innocent - well, some did do Accessory to Murder (which was the actual "crime" in 2-4) or Tampering With Crimescenes (3-5, 4-4) but nobody did anything really, really bad.

Although it would be fun to play as Phoenix, learn that your client is absolutely, 100% Guilty and then you get various options on what to do - my personal favorite would be "Tell Client Off And Break Contract".

C-A


Yeah I was mainly speaking from a pre-GS5 announcement standpoint. If you think about it, GS4 is kind of a good end to the series from an external conflict perspective, although its not from an internal, character-driven conflict.

I think some of the impact of GS4 will be gone with GS5. But that was bound to happen no matter who or what was going to be in the game.
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Re: First thought on hobo Phoenix?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Although it would be fun to play as Phoenix, learn that your client is absolutely, 100% Guilty and then you get various options on what to do - my personal favorite would be "Tell Client Off And Break Contract"


Eh, that's sort of what happened with the Engarde case, wasn't it? Well, except for the part where you kind of had to keep defending him...

ADA McCoy wrote:
If you play Apollo first and then play the trilogy, knowing he eventually gets disbarred adds to the plot a bunch. And after T&T it makes thematic sense. How interesting would it have been to have Phoenix just be a successful lawyer during AJ? If you're going to have him in at all, he needs some sort of development that interesting and adds to the character. And the disbarment story is that development. And the fact that he doesn't give up and instead takes on the whole freaking Legal system that's accused so many of his innocent clients makes total sense from a narrative standpoint.

Hopefully the creators of GS5 realize how big a change this was for Phoenix and how much more complex and wonderful his character became and honor that by not regressing to T&T Phoenix. A Phoenix with the profession and passion of the original with the calmness and confidence of the disbarred one will be an awesome character.


This sums up a lot of my feelings about Hobodo.

About Hobodo, personally, I loved it. I loved that they gave him a chance to develop past being just the derpy, self-monologuing, wins-trials-by-a-hair defense lawyer that we knew him as for GS1 all the way to GS3. That's not to say that he didn't have any development during his time as a lawyer, because I mean, just think of the finale cases. But Hobodo developed in a very different way, but in my opinion, still fairly true to character.

I mean, the sarcasm? That's nothing new, Phoenix was always pretty dry and sarcastic, it's just that we've always ever only seen it from his view, which diminishes the bite a bit. Bitter? Well, yeah, he DID lose the badge that he worked so hard for. Laidback and hobo-like? We see very clearly in the last case how he spent the past seven years researching the Gramarye trial and everyone linked to it. He's just as determined as he ever was to find the truth. So I also hope that GS5 won't just revert him back to his derpy self, although by the look of his new wardrobe, it looks unlikely. Fingers crossed.

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