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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)Topic%20Title
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Oh lol
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I think I might have figured out :beard: naming :gipsy: as a witness...

Spoiler: 4-3, of course
If he was actually naming :gipsy:, why not say "Lamiroir witnessed the murder"? That's because he wasn't naming the Siren of the Ballad. He was naming the actual siren - the backstage speaker. Clearly, the bleeding had messed with his head, and he'd convinced himself that the speaker recorded the crime.

Fortunately for :Maki:, :gipsy: really did "witness" the crime - it was just luck that :odoroki: thought that :beard: meant :gipsy:... Or I could just be making stuff up. It makes more sense than just about every other theory on this contradiction.


And about the footprints in People Park?

Spoiler: 4-2
Remember that there was a pathway right next to the scene of the crime. Pathways don't usually hold footprints.

:mina: left one print upon leaving the stand, then stepped onto the pathway after that.

:takita: was just in front of the path (it was L-shaped, I believe), and only left one print for each foot.

:study:, however, is puzzling. If he really entered from the south, he walked across the whole area, including all the mud. Perhaps he was rushing, having snatched Plum's bloomers, and didn't stand still long enough to leave many prints? Not to mention, he'd rushed right past :takita: and Meraktis in their standoff... Hmm..
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00Davo wrote:
I think I might have figured out :beard: naming :gipsy: as a witness...

Spoiler: 4-3, of course
If he was actually naming :gipsy:, why not say "Lamiroir witnessed the murder"? That's because he wasn't naming the Siren of the Ballad. He was naming the actual siren - the backstage speaker. Clearly, the bleeding had messed with his head, and he'd convinced himself that the speaker recorded the crime.

Fortunately for :Maki:, :gipsy: really did "witness" the crime - it was just luck that :odoroki: thought that :beard: meant :gipsy:... Or I could just be making stuff up. It makes more sense than just about every other theory on this contradiction.


I seriously hope you're joking...
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00Davo wrote:
I think I might have figured out :beard: naming :gipsy: as a witness...

Spoiler: 4-3, of course
If he was actually naming :gipsy:, why not say "Lamiroir witnessed the murder"? That's because he wasn't naming the Siren of the Ballad. He was naming the actual siren - the backstage speaker. Clearly, the bleeding had messed with his head, and he'd convinced himself that the speaker recorded the crime.

Fortunately for :Maki:, :gipsy: really did "witness" the crime - it was just luck that :odoroki: thought that :beard: meant :gipsy:... Or I could just be making stuff up. It makes more sense than just about every other theory on this contradiction.


That's... quite... complicated... My head tells me to believe that LeTouse meant Lamiroir with "Siren" to avoid headaches.

And that theory would only work if the GS series was dead on with the realism (writing "Maggie" with a broken neck?), as thinking that bleeding messes with the vic's head requires a certain amount of general realism to make realistic theories plausible.

That sentence probably doesn't make sense, but I hope others can follow my train of thought.

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I actually think that could be an idea, as he wasn't from an English speaking country, so he could have made the lamroir window mistake, with the siren being the speaker. A bit overly complicated though...
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Are you guys talking about how :beard: saw Lamirior's jewel thingy fall WHEN IT WAS BEHIND A WALL?! My brother keeps on pointing this out...again...and again...and again.

Also, I found another contradiction.
Spoiler:
If Thalassa is Lamirior, and Thalassa was born, raised, and lived in America, why isn't Lamiroir all that good at speaking English?

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Magatama Maya wrote:
Also, I found another contradiction.
Spoiler:
If Thalassa is Lamirior, and Thalassa was born, raised, and lived in America, why isn't Lamiroir all that good at speaking English?

She had amnesia, and thus couldn't remember living in America or most of the English she might have learned there. She clearly regains her grasp on the English language at the end of the game, when her memory is returned.
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There's no reason to come up with a huge THING for why Romaine would call the witness 'Siren'.

There's two perfectly logical explanations -

1) The most obvious - it's her nickname. 'The Siren of the Ballad.' It's only slightly odd that he'd go to her nickname instead of her real name - MOST people are as familiar with her as the Siren of the Ballad as they are as Lamiroir. Depending how hard they're pushing that particular bit of promotion, it might not be odd at all - he could easily assume that that's the name most would know her by.

2) It IS her name - remember, Lamiroir translates from the Borgonian as 'Siren'. This is a little stranger - why would he translate her name? But, given the idea that he's not thinking straight because of the blood loss, it's a lot easier to believe he'd not think to stop translating when he got to her name, than it is to think he'd call the loudspeaker a siren. Or, more likely, there is the fact that it's not really her name, per se, but a descriptor given her because she couldn't actually remember her real name - so it's a matter of forgetting under a rather stressful situation that they don't usually translate it.
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Also, when you get down to it, 'Siren' is two syllables and 'Lamiroir' is three. LeTouse wasn't an idiot; if he needed to say something he was going to say it as to the point and in as few words as possible. I'm not buying into the 'siren actually meant loudspeaker' idea; it's just not plausible. The definition of 'siren' used to describe Lamiroir was likely the sirens of myth, that had famously beautiful voices. The other definition of 'siren' that's likely to be known by someone who wasn't fluent would be warning sirens. It's an awfully long stretch to go from an air raid siren or a police siren to a loudspeaker.

That does however, beg the question as to why he didn't just say that Daryan murdered him, or why he didn't write it in the carpet in his blood like he did with his ID number. I agree with you, Kamino, though; whatever LeTouse did or did not do was highly affected by the amount of blood he had lost. It also goes with what I've said before: Just because a situation didn't happen in the most logical way doesn't make it a contradiction. The case would hardly have been any different if LeTouse had something else, and what he did say was not contrary to anything previously presented in the series.
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Letoise might not have known Darian's name, seeing as that had (as presented by the game) the first time they had met, and he couldn't exactly say... "The killer is the man with dick.... hair.....
(Actually, that would be damn hilarious.) So he named a witness who would be able to describe him.
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[quote="00Davo"]I think I might have figured out :beard: naming :gipsy: as a witness...

Spoiler: 4-3, of course
If he was actually naming :gipsy:, why not say "Lamiroir witnessed the murder"? That's because he wasn't naming the Siren of the Ballad. He was naming the actual siren - the backstage speaker. Clearly, the bleeding had messed with his head, and he'd convinced himself that the speaker recorded the crime.

Fortunately for :Maki:, :gipsy: really did "witness" the crime - it was just luck that :odoroki: thought that :beard: meant :gipsy:... Or I could just be making stuff up. It makes more sense than just about every other theory on this contradiction.


Right... having played the AA games, i'd think you know what "conjecture" means by know.
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Meh... I just got shot down...
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Uhm... Just a random interjection here... But in 4-3...

Before you ask whos and whys of LeTouse's last words first you should look to the hows. Such as, how was he aware that Lemiroir was a witness? She was running through a crawl space in the middle of a performance, her voice blended with the speaker blaring in the room. All part of a highly secretive magic stunt, it's mechanics told only on a need to know basis. While yes, they were aware of the crawl space above the dressing rooms, there was no way from LeTouse to know she'd be running past at that precise moment. The second and third questions are how did LeTouse even manage to survive that long with a gaping ragged wound from a .45 bullet ripping through his torso in roughly the location of his heart. It's amazing he held on long enough to write out his Interpol serial, even more amazing he was allowed to write it out before anyone attempted to wipe it away. Unless Machi did it in the brief time he was in the room before Apollo and Ema burst in, but I think it would have been mentioned if the victims blood had been found on Machi, or a rag or something found having been covered in blood. As it is, no evidence points to that.

But the Detective had plenty of time, confident in his alibi and that no one would accuse a detective he had more leeway in doctoring the crime scene. Though he was distracted no doubt by the pain from firing such a high calibur weapon.

At any rate... I wonder why being in an 'underground' tunnel didn't affect the audio of Lemioir's singing. You'd think it'd case an echo or hir mic would pick up foot steps. Maybe noise cancellation was the one and only area of technology that had advanced in the last 10-15 years.
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Spoiler: 4-3
How is it that lamroir's headset picked up the gunshot, but not the words "it's over! press the switch! now!"

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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Spoiler: 4-3
How is it that lamroir's headset picked up the gunshot, but not the words "it's over! press the switch! now!"


Spoiler: My reply
Probably because one's a gunshot and the other's a voice talking over a headset!

... Okay, that was a bit cruel... although it's a lot better than "PW Characters don't use voice actors unless they're prosecutors or attorneys... or Lamiroir, if you consider "HURRRRRRRRRR" a voice" as being the reply... a Gunshot is a lot louder, and even that was barely heard in the recording...

What I want to know is, after the fireworks went off, why didn't the band stop playing and rush to the back!? I thought Klavier said everyone on stage had one on, and in court, it is said that the headset was put there so that you could hear the "Gunshots", even if you were on stage...

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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)Topic%20Title
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Something I've been wondering for a while about 4-4:

Through out most of the cases in the whole series, you had one day to investigate before the trial. How, then, does this give Kristoph time to arrange everything, as well as giving Zak time to hire a lawyer, fire him, and hire another? I don't get this one.
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Spoiler: 4-3
How is it that lamroir's headset picked up the gunshot, but not the words "it's over! press the switch! now!"


Spoiler: My reply
Probably because one's a gunshot and the other's a voice talking over a headset!

... Okay, that was a bit cruel... although it's a lot better than "PW Characters don't use voice actors unless they're prosecutors or attorneys... or Lamiroir, if you consider "HURRRRRRRRRR" a voice" as being the reply... a Gunshot is a lot louder, and even that was barely heard in the recording...

What I want to know is, after the fireworks went off, why didn't the band stop playing and rush to the back!? I thought Klavier said everyone on stage had one on, and in court, it is said that the headset was put there so that you could hear the "Gunshots", even if you were on stage...

:larry: ...and klavier thought he got burned
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Wrestlemania wrote:
What I want to know is, after the fireworks went off, why didn't the band stop playing and rush to the back!? I thought Klavier said everyone on stage had one on, and in court, it is said that the headset was put there so that you could hear the "Gunshots", even if you were on stage...


I think the headpiece was there so that Daryan could set off the fireworks when he knew there were people in the hallway that would be able to hear the shots, not so that the headset would broadcast the fireworks to everyone on stage.
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OK...
Two 4-3 ones for :Maki: and :gipsy:
SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah it's not working right now...











:odo-objection: You're hiding something!
:machi surprised: !!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^obviously doesn't understand english
:odoroki: *percieving* SOMERANDOMCRUD!
:gipsy: You're eyes! They're so fierce all of a sudden!
^^^^^^^^^ Is blind
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YoungWright wrote:
OK...
Two 4-3 ones for :Maki: and :gipsy:
Spoiler: HMMM...I WONDER???
:odo-objection: You're hiding something!
:agent-Smith: !!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^obviously doesn't understand english
:odoroki: *percieving* SOMERANDOMCRUD!
:gipsy: You're eyes! They're so fierce all of a sudden!
^^^^^^^^^ Is blind


Hmm. Interesting.
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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Spoiler: 4-3
How is it that lamroir's headset picked up the gunshot, but not the words "it's over! press the switch! now!"


Spoiler: My reply
Probably because one's a gunshot and the other's a voice talking over a headset!

... Okay, that was a bit cruel... although it's a lot better than "PW Characters don't use voice actors unless they're prosecutors or attorneys... or Lamiroir, if you consider "HURRRRRRRRRR" a voice" as being the reply... a Gunshot is a lot louder, and even that was barely heard in the recording...

What I want to know is, after the fireworks went off, why didn't the band stop playing and rush to the back!? I thought Klavier said everyone on stage had one on, and in court, it is said that the headset was put there so that you could hear the "Gunshots", even if you were on stage...

:larry: ...and klavier thought he got burned


... Sorry, ese... I was out of line with how I replied... Sorry again... :sadshoe:

YoungWright wrote:
Spoiler: Spoilers
:odo-objection: You're hiding something!
:machi surprised: !!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^obviously doesn't understand english
:odoroki: *percieving* SOMERANDOMCRUD!
:gipsy: You're eyes! They're so fierce all of a sudden!
^^^^^^^^^ Is blind


Spoiler: My Replies
For the first, you'd be startled if someone yelled something loudly at you, even if you didn't understand it!

For the second, she "Felt" his gaze... In fact, that's one of the reasons she considers eye surgery at the end of the case... Phoenix explains it a lot more specifically though...

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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while about 4-4:

Through out most of the cases in the whole series, you had one day to investigate before the trial. How, then, does this give Kristoph time to arrange everything, as well as giving Zak time to hire a lawyer, fire him, and hire another? I don't get this one.


Spoiler:
Well, Phoenix is pretty well known. Zak could easily have fired Kristoph and called Phoenix the same day as an attorney request. After all, Phoenix didn't even HAVE an investigation day, he just got a night to look over the case.
As for Kristoph's preparation--there are sometimes a few days before the trial actually starts, I think. (Or even just one day). It could have been that Kristoph, being the guy he is, knew about the Mishams and requested the forged evidence after hearing about the trial or asking Zak about it. He then already had the forged evidence in hand....before he was fired.

I dunno, I might be remembering some of the case badly...but it does kinda make sense to me. :phoenix:
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The biggest contradiction of all is how all of his friends simply abandoned phoenix when he lost his badge.

Of course, if GS4 was in an alt. timeline, connecting to GS1 without GS2/GS3's development, it would make sense.
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Who says that they abandoned him? He was still in contact with Maya, at the very least, but just because no one makes a cameo doesn't mean that they all cut ties.
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Handren wrote:
The biggest contradiction of all is how all of his friends simply abandoned phoenix when he lost his badge.

Of course, if GS4 was in an alt. timeline, connecting to GS1 without GS2/GS3's development, it would make sense.


Jeebus give it a rest already. Not everyone sees every one of their friends every day and introduces them to strangers that have nothing to do with them. This is not the thread for your butthurt. :gregory:
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XD Agreed.
Spoiler: Possibly Unnecessary Spoiler Tag
Besides, remember: usually with some characters, *cough*Edgeworth*cough*, you don't see/hear anything about them until they actually appear to do something in the case. Edgeworth and Franziska were in Europe and probably still are, Maya is busy being the Kurain Master, Pearl is making up for Maya's probable incompetence, and Larry is...off doing whatever he does. No one said they abandoned him...
How's that? :odoroki:


And to keep this on track...somewhat...
Wrestlemania wrote:
YoungWright wrote:
Spoiler: Spoilers
:odo-objection: You're hiding something!
:machi surprised: !!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^obviously doesn't understand english
:odoroki: *percieving* SOMERANDOMCRUD!
:gipsy: You're eyes! They're so fierce all of a sudden!
^^^^^^^^^ Is blind


Spoiler: My Replies
For the first, you'd be startled if someone yelled something loudly at you, even if you didn't understand it!

For the second, she "Felt" his gaze... In fact, that's one of the reasons she considers eye surgery at the end of the case... Phoenix explains it a lot more specifically though...

Spoiler:
Just to add: It is also perfectly reasonable for Lamiroir to "feel" his gaze too, as she is Thlassa and she would/should have the ability to pick up on and respond to tension in others (plus she apparently still has her bracelet). I'd think Apollo perceiving would count as "tension".
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Handren wrote:
The biggest contradiction of all is how all of his friends simply abandoned phoenix when he lost his badge.

Of course, if GS4 was in an alt. timeline, connecting to GS1 without GS2/GS3's development, it would make sense.


would you care to explain why that's a contradiction? that's utterly possible. why couldn't they?

but honestly, if i had to guess, i think it'll probably get further explanation in GS5. :yuusaku:


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:phoenix: :Objection! if you ask me, gs4 is just one big contradiction itself. it would've been better if they just kept me as the main character

:judge: :sustained.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA fo shiz. :hobohodo:
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Handren wrote:
The biggest contradiction of all is how all of his friends simply abandoned phoenix when he lost his badge.

Of course, if GS4 was in an alt. timeline, connecting to GS1 without GS2/GS3's development, it would make sense.


1. One of the Fey's, "Maya" or "Pearl", was mentioned already in the game.

2. A "Contradiction" is something that goes against the facts... NO FACTS SUPPORT PHOENIX'S FRIENDS ALL HAVING BEEN REQUIRED TO STAY WITH HIM!

3. Incidentally, no facts say they left him! They could have still visited him, and such moments were unexplored in-game. I don't have to PROVE that argument, though, I only had to state it's possibility... :godot:

4. You didn't create the game, don't try to explain away the logic behind the GS Timeline... It has NO flaws that pertain to the subject at hand.

YuBeenOverruled2010 wrote:
:phoenix: :Objection! if you ask me, gs4 is just one big contradiction itself. it would've been better if they just kept me as the main character

:judge: :sust-

Image Overruled... Heh...


Fix'd... Why?

You're just a fool... A glaring, ridiculous fool. :franny:

They had a large set of goals in mind while creating the fourth installment of the Gyakuten Saiban series... If you don't know what they are, go on Google and look them up, or wait for someone to PM you. Until then, stop stating how much fail you think Apollo Justice was.
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YuBeenOverruled2010 wrote:
:phoenix: :Objection! if you ask me, gs4 is just one big contradiction itself. it would've been better if they just kept me as the main character

:judge: :sust- .

:darke:
:udgy: denied. VERY denied.

seriously, i think it's much better that they canned phoenix BEFORE it became stale and repetitive (the simpsons, i'm looking at you...). and to all who disagree, a very firm :kikzou: to you all.
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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
YuBeenOverruled2010 wrote:
:phoenix: :Objection! if you ask me, gs4 is just one big contradiction itself. it would've been better if they just kept me as the main character

:judge: :sust- .

:darke:
:udgy: denied. VERY denied.

seriously, i think it's much better that they canned phoenix BEFORE it became stale and repetitive (the simpsons, i'm looking at you...). and to all who disagree, a very firm :kikzou: to you all.


*Hands him a bottle of Flavoured Water*
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i feel pretty

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Wrestlemania wrote:
*Hands him a bottle of Flavoured Water*


huh?
as for this,
[
well, this might be a bit of a longshot, but remember Lamroir saying machi would signal stuff to her on her palm? that could explain it.
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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
*Hands him a bottle of Flavoured Water*


huh?
as for this,
[
well, this might be a bit of a longshot, but remember Lamroir saying machi would signal stuff to her on her palm? that could explain it.


I'm not fully sure what the second part of the message is for, but the first part was basically another way to say "I completely agree".
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i feel pretty

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Sorry, i misquoted. the palm thing was referring to this -

YoungWright wrote:
OK...
Two 4-3 ones for :Maki: and :gipsy:
SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah it's not working right now...











:odo-objection: You're hiding something!
:machi surprised: !!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^obviously doesn't understand english
:odoroki: *percieving* SOMERANDOMCRUD!
:gipsy: You're eyes! They're so fierce all of a sudden!
^^^^^^^^^ Is blind

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Geez, so since I belioeve in an alt timeline and that Phoenix's friends would have helped him, that means I hate AJ/GS4?

I guess I played it twice and support Vera/Apollo because I`m a mashochist.

Seriously.
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Love is Patient, Love is faith, Love is everlasting
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Handren wrote:
Geez, so since I belioeve in an alt timeline and that Phoenix's friends would have helped him, that means I hate AJ/GS4?

I guess I played it twice and support Vera/Apollo because I`m a mashochist.

Seriously.


You've made Vera cry. i hope you're happy.
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i feel pretty

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Here's one for 4-3 - this is set in 2025/2026, right? then why is it they are STILL using videotapes? seriously, get a DVD player already!
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Handren wrote:
Geez, so since I belioeve in an alt timeline and that Phoenix's friends would have helped him, that means I hate AJ/GS4?

I guess I played it twice and support Vera/Apollo because I`m a mashochist.

Seriously.


That's not what you said. What you said, was the following:

Handren wrote:
The biggest contradiction of all is how all of his friends simply abandoned phoenix when he lost his badge.


You called the fact that Phoenix's Friends "Abandoned" him, a Contradiction, in other words, it goes "Against The Known Facts"... But it DOESN'T! First of all, we already know that either Maya or Pearl continue to contact him, even 7 years later. This is made evident by examining the stack of DVDs in the Hickfield Clinic when Phoenix is in the room.

Also, we don't know if nobody contacted Phoenix Pre-7-Years-Ago... Who knows, they could've contacted Phoenix multiple times that were not shown in the MASON System Records.

If you want a contradiction, the CLOSEST you can get is "Maya wasn't in the courtroom with Phoenix as his Aide during his final trial", but that can be explained away with numerous examples, so it doesn't really count...

Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Here's one for 4-3 - this is set in 2025/2026, right? then why is it they are STILL using videotapes? seriously, get a DVD player already!


At least it's in colour by this point!

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Last edited by Wrestlemania on Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sorry for the DP.
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nuuuuu, stoooooop

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There is no "contradiction" in the fact that Maya etc don't appear in the game. This is a thread for contradictions. I.E this is not the thread for discussing Maya not being in the game.

Moving on~

Quote:
:odo-objection: You're hiding something!
:machi surprised: !!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^obviously doesn't understand english


Except that he does, and was trying to hide it. Regardless, I would be surprised if people started yelling at me too.
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