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Replaying AJ, something struck me. SPOILERS!Topic%20Title
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So, as the title states, I was replaying case 4-4, when something struck me. Not a bottle of grapejuce, but a possibiliby.

Warning: Unmarked Spoilers! Don't read if you haven't finnished AJ!

I've heard the Mason system be targeted by a lot of people for having "messy time travel". But the Mason system, as far as I understood, is just a simulation system the jurors use to examine the available information (with Phoenix loading up his entire investigation probably being an exception). But, what about those moments when you use information gathered in the present for things that, chronologicly, would be in the past?
While replaying, I noticed that there are really only two moments where this would absolutely be necessary: Vera's Psyche-Locks, and Zak's Psyche-Locks. Now, Vera's could be explained. Phoenix could have already suspected Kristoph, and known about the nailpolish from being "friends" with him.
But with Zak, the real problems arise, and this is where I got my realization. Some of the information you use on him you only get during investigations that take place after his death. Talking to him would be impossible without time travel... or a spirit chaneling.

My theory is that Phoenix did not break Zak's Psyche-Lock that night in the Borscht Bowl club, like it shows in the simulation, but sometime later, after his death, and that he edited the simulation to hide this from the jurors. After all, we know what kind of people Phoenix has in his social circle. It wouldn't be such a stretch to think that he could arange to have his spirit called in order to question him when he had enough information.
That's my theory. I don't know if anyone has brought this up before, but if not, discuss. Please.
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Re: Replaying AJ, something struck me. SPOILERS!Topic%20Title
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beterbomen wrote:
My theory is that Phoenix did not break Zak's Psyche-Lock that night in the Borscht Bowl club, like it shows in the simulation, but sometime later, after his death, and that he edited the simulation to hide this from the jurors. After all, we know what kind of people Phoenix has in his social circle. It wouldn't be such a stretch to think that he could arange to have his spirit called in order to question him when he had enough information.


That's all well and good, but honestly, would that really faze the jurors? They already were forced to accept that Phoenix has a magic pendant that allows him to see when people are hiding secrets from him. If they can accept that, why not spirit channeling?

It's not a bad theory per se, but I feel it might need some refining, if only to answer this quandary.
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Re: Replaying AJ, something struck me. SPOILERS!Topic%20Title
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Little_Thief wrote:
beterbomen wrote:
My theory is that Phoenix did not break Zak's Psyche-Lock that night in the Borscht Bowl club, like it shows in the simulation, but sometime later, after his death, and that he edited the simulation to hide this from the jurors. After all, we know what kind of people Phoenix has in his social circle. It wouldn't be such a stretch to think that he could arange to have his spirit called in order to question him when he had enough information.


That's all well and good, but honestly, would that really faze the jurors? They already were forced to accept that Phoenix has a magic pendant that allows him to see when people are hiding secrets from him. If they can accept that, why not spirit channeling?

It's not a bad theory per se, but I feel it might need some refining, if only to answer this quandary.



My hypothesis is that the entire MASON that WE play is breaking the 4th wall, and what precisely was shown to the in-world jury, and for that matter told to Apollo by Phoenix, was different (except the part right at the end where you're in Thalassa's body)
This sounds strange, but it's no different to Mentor Mia having Ghost Powers.

(You notice MASON begins at the start of 4-4 and there's all that Matrix-type binary. I think Phoenix is talking to the players here, not the in-world jury. We alone get to see the Flashback Trial. That's no different to us role-playing 3-4 as Mia when all PHOENIX is doing is reading the report or something, not being transplanted into replaying Mia's body (unless the case report technology of the near future is very different to how we assumed.) Then we get to play MASON with more of that binary. Then RIGHT AT THE END the verdict Phoenix is not addressing us, but the in-world jury and the background is all plain black. When we give the verdict input our hand is Thalassa's. It sure as heck isn't when we played MASON earlier. People will rebut here well that was only not to spoil the 'surprise'. I say no it isn't, it's also because there was no real evidence that we were playing the in-world jury at all (let alone in Thalassa's body) while we did MASON ourselves. When we're IN Thalassa or anyone else's body, they always have a dialogue both externally or internally, as Thalassa does in the end when we are temporarily 'her'.)

In THAT case, the in-world jury didn't have to see the Magatama and all that.
However, the players hadn't necessarily have played GS1-3 so they weren't necessarily going to know about spirit channelling either.

How did Phoenix know about things like that to construct the MASON 'game' in the first place? Well maybe spirit channelling is how he obtained the info in the first place. Also why he'd bother to look for Trucy's 'dead' mother?
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Re: Replaying AJ, something struck me. SPOILERS!Topic%20Title
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I figured the MASON system was nothing more than a simulation "game" sort of thing. That it was all created via computer and the explanation of "why things from the present work in the past, vice-versa" is simply because that's the way it ended up making sense to Phoenix and so he created these simulated scenarios, including psyche-locks and all.

Maybe Phoenix Wright jumped onto the Phoenix Wrong carriage and decided to use it for non-hilarious purposes.

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Re: Replaying AJ, something struck me. SPOILERS!Topic%20Title
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@Icer - Heheheh........"in Thalassa's body"........
Re: Replaying AJ, something struck me. SPOILERS!Topic%20Title
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I always really liked the MASON system, (and case 4-4) but there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency as to what it is and "who" we are when we're using it. Sometimes it's actually us the players and sometimes it's the jury.

As a first time PW player playing through it, they were good about explaining what the Magatama was and why he had it. One thing that was especially helpful was that they put it where Apollo's bracelet was in the touchscreen, and it did a similar animation when you clicked it. This helped emphasize that it was another, similar paranormal device that had a similar purpose.
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