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What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)
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Author:  chcoman123 [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

I recently replayed Apollo Justice, and I realized that the game never really explained what the Mason system was, or did, or how Phoenix got it. It's important because it gets Apollo crucial evidence for the last case, but it's never explained how he got it, especially when you play as phoenix while in the Mason system! With that being said, I think it's open for speculation. Anybody got any ideas about the Mason system?

Author:  Cravat of Doom [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

It's a system that lets you watch footage from the past and from the present, perhaps? Phoenix wasn't ACTUALLY time traveling, he had recorded stuff with his beanie-camera. I don't think Capcom thought it through very much, they just wanted a way to let you see the past and the present so my guess is that it's just something that lets you view footage.

Author:  Percei [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

My best impression of it was that it was the software used to present a case to the Jury, by cataloging evidence (including video) and allowing the jury to interact with the evidence and the investigation as they view the case.

Author:  CatMuto [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

I felt like it was a hologram program... I can't help but call it a click-and-view adventure game. You know, where you click on something and you watch a scene happening... can't think of any examples right now...

C-A

Author:  Thelema [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

Percei wrote:
My best impression of it was that it was the software used to present a case to the Jury, by cataloging evidence (including video) and allowing the jury to interact with the evidence and the investigation as they view the case.


I agree. After all, in the 4-4 ending..

Spoiler:
You realize that you've been watching everything from Laminoir's point of view (one of the jurists).

Author:  davech1987 [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

but how are you able to use evidence gained in the present to then show it in the past :S

Author:  Nearavex [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

Stylistic choice. They added it as a part of the MASON System's gameplay, it's rather obvious Phoenix didn't actually bring evidence from the future. Rather, he just got the same evidence from different source.

Author:  AnastasiaGavin [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

I Think its a hologram programm that let phoenix review his past and gather new evidence

Author:  davech1987 [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

when does it say that Laminoir is Tassala ?

Author:  CatMuto [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

davech1987 wrote:
when does it say that Laminoir is Tassala ?


I think it's more mentioned post-case in the small scenes during the credits.

C-A

Author:  Jozerick [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

And at the end of the game, when you play as Jury member #6, when you choose either "guilty" or "not guilty", you see that the person pressing the button has the same sleeve as Lamiroir, and just after that you see that she is wearing the same bracelet as Apollo.

Author:  icer [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

dangerousoffender wrote:

I agree. After all, in the 4-4 ending..

Spoiler:
You realize that you've been watching everything from Laminoir's point of view (one of the jurists).


I disagree with this, we are certainly roleplaying
Spoiler:
Thalassa
right at the end of the case to input the verdict but the start of 4-4 onwards it's totally ambiguous. It's more like Phoenix is addressing some weird external audience of players.
I think Takumi was trying to do something more artistically profound. Although due to various reasons it didn't quite work out.

Spoiler: Mason system speculations
BEGIN MASON SYSTEM [...]

Phoenix:
...Well now.
Shall we begin?

Phoenix:
Touch the arrow to switch
between past and present.

Phoenix:
But let's begin seven years
ago... in the past.

Phoenix:
It is right after my last
trial came to an abrupt end.

Phoenix:
...Now that you know the game,
let's play.


What is the MASON System? Is it a 'virtual reality system'? The game never says so. For example, Kay's simulations (which were less elaborate) came straight out of some magical 'object' but there's no such 'justification' here.

Is it what was shown to the in-world jurists? If the game is examined more closely, it shows it was not. Nor are we 'role-playing Thalassa', except right at the end.

It's ambiguous, but there's a clear dichotomy between the sequences where Phoenix addresses the in-world jury, and the ones where he's seeming to addressing the player directly. Aka US.

For example the end jury sequence there is no Matrix-type background, but the parts at the beginning where Phoenix speaks to 'us' there is. And all this stuff about a 'game', over and over. This sequence would surely never be said to the in-world jury:

============================
Episode 4
Turnabout Succession
MASON System -40M01-
============================

...That trial seven years ago
was the beginning of it all.

This I know beyond a doubt.

The mysteries of the past work
their magic on the present.

But you'll soon be finding
all of this out for yourself.

Which of Magnifi Gramarye's
disciples pulled that trigger?

Where did the vanishing
defendant, Zak Gramarye, go?

What dark truth lurks behind
the forged diary page?

And what about the girl who
was left behind...?

...The past left us these four
"keys" to unlocking the truth.

But that's not all.

There are four "keys" in the
present, as well.

And when all the questions
have found their answers...

...the final trial will
begin.


[See,. you really think in the in-world jury would hold up trial date till they finished? As for US PLAYING well of course this is logical.]


But first, you must chase the
truth through then and now.

Think of it... as a game.

Phoenix:
I, Phoenix Wright, will be
your guide through this game.

Phoenix:
That terrible trial saw me
present forged evidence.

Phoenix:
...It ended, half-finished,
when the defendant vanished.

Phoenix:
What became of me after
that...?

Phoenix:
As your investigation proceeds
the answer will become clear.

Phoenix:
...Oh, and one more thing.

Phoenix:
There is something I must
tell you.

Phoenix:
As Apollo Justice has his
bracelet...

[Would the jury know this? I don't think so!]

Phoenix:
...so, too, do I have my
own "weapon" of sorts.

Phoenix:
...My Magatama.

Phoenix:
What does it do, you ask?

Phoenix:
That I would have you see
for yourself.

Phoenix:
...Well now.
Shall we begin?

Phoenix:
Touch the arrow to switch
between past and present.

Phoenix:
But let's begin seven years
ago... in the past.

Phoenix:
It is right after my last
trial came to an abrupt end.

Phoenix:
...Now that you know the game,
let's play.


And would the in-world jury really have played Phoenix's Flashback Trial too? And that happens AFTER the MASON screen boots up, so it's clearly part of 'the MASON'.

In the Flashback Trial it's like the game throws the irony in our face. We can't choose to NOT present the forged evidence. The two options lead to the same thing. If we don't present it we never progress. We know exactly what's going to happen. The limitations of the game's options affecting our possible input are emphasised. The game and its writing is in control not the players.

So I think it's breaking the 4th wall. Maybe this is Phoenix's magical supernatural mentor power analogous to Mia. Instead of the spiritual plane, we get him able to manipulate the 'game' logic in the same weird old game travel/narrative sequences of GS1-3+ etc. which it's no 'accident' the MASON is fairly identical to. Because, hey people, this IS a videogame! Of course this was never explicitly said either. And since we'll probably never get to ask Takumi about his intentions for MASON (if indeed he is the one who came up with it.)

But it matches up with Hobo!Phoenix's character. He's not just forging cards, he's exploiting everything at his disposal, even the game's 'investigation-engine' things, and we're the targets here, the ones playing the game, not the people in-world. The in-world jury was shown something else, not literally what we played. Whatever WE see though, is some kind of weird spin (artistic comment? certainly a deconstruction) on the investigation-engine underpinning the game.

The MASON boot screen loads before the start of 4-4 and its Flashback trial, way before we actually 'play the game'. In the intro video for 4-4, Vera collapses in it. The 'time sequence' is an utter mess, and this intro can't be taken literally.

The only part where the player is 'Thalassa' is right at the end. Right at the end Phoenix talks to the actual jurists "Choose wisely. Choose well." But in a lot of other times in 4-4 he's addressing the player. It's only his final speech before the verdict that's to the in-game jurists.

The final verdict has no Matrix-syle background behind Phoenix - it's just black, and UNLIKE the MASON intro, has a location:
October 9, 12:48 PM
Jurists' Chambers

Author:  D.A. McCoy [ Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

I look at it on two levels - in-universe, it is a computer system set up so the jurors like Thalassa can view the footage from both periods. out-of-universe, I look at it as that with a few shortcuts for gameplay's sake.

For instance, regarding the using future evidence in past, in-universe I think of that as much more tiresome of an activity. Thalassa is looking at two pieces of footage. For example (and I might get something wrong because I haven't played this case in two years): with the nail polish, in-universe I imagine Phoenix (and Thalassa, looking at the footage) noticing the bottle. Thalassa then compares it with the footage 7 years later of Phoenix in Kristoph's cell, and Thalassa makes the connection that Kristoph must have given her the bottle. So Thalassa is basically comparing video tapes for hours and hours.

But that wouldn't really lend itself to an AA game - at least for the whole thing. (Imagine playing a whole case in which all you do is the footage analysis from 1-5). So the developers took some liberties in order to let you do the normal present evidence thing.

It's a little like how when I think of what I consider the in-universe "story" of Zelda games I don't really imagine Link is actually getting a big key to go fight a boss that's just waiting for him, but it's what makes the game what it is.

Author:  Scent [ Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

I think the MASON System was part of Phoenix's plan to insure revenge on Kristoph. Wright spent seven long years investigating the "darkness" behind the case that deprived him of his attorney's badge. How do you summarize seven years worth of investigation so that a jury can reach a verdict? On a virtual simulation. It's meant to be separated in Past and Present so that the jurors can witness key moments and reach at their own conclusions. It's like when you're doing an oral presentation on give your audience a copy of your PowerPoint presentation: it's a summary of the info you're gonna talk about, but it's up to you on how you efficiently deliver the information to your audience.

At least, those are my two cents.

Author:  Mister Gruel [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the Mason system? (SPOILERS)

i thought it was just bad game design

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