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What pissed you off in Apollo Justice? SpoilersTopic%20Title

Mystic Lawyer

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Zak ran away in court, used his daughter as a decoy, he abandoned her with his lawyer for seven years, came back to solely talk to Phoenix for a few minutes, then he challenged him to a rigged game of poker so he can ruin his new career (which he's using to support the daughter he abandoned) and refused to see.

And of course my favorite...Motive is not mentioned unless the actual murder is on the stand... (Wouldn't you wonder why an agoraphobic would kill her father?)

What about you guys?
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Spoiler: 4-4
The fact that in 4-4 Phoenix's sprite looks like crap compared to Klavier's.. .D:
Image vs Image


Also there were a lot of black and white flashbacks... like I don't already know the stuff that JUST HAPPENED in court YESTERDAY.
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4-4 Seemed kind of rushed at the last trial. There were a lot of loose ends. I didn't really have the same satisfying feeling when I beat it was I did previous ones.

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Ty': Ace Attorney wrote:
Brushel Image


Really, what else is there to say?

...Actually, there is something that kind of irked me about the ending:

Spoiler: Epilogue/Credits
When Thalassa was going on and on about Apollo and Trucy, about how she was so proud of them and how she was thrilled to find out she had two children... uh, what about Machi? I know he's not her flesh and blood, and that he's probably serving time for the whole smuggling business, but hasn't she been caring for him like a mother since they started composing music together? It's like he completely dropped out of the picture.

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Ty': Ace Attorney wrote:
I didn't really have the same satisfying feeling when I beat it was I did previous ones.


I'll second that one. I was left feeling quite empty and unsatisfied with Apollo Justice compared to the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction I had after beating 1, 2 and 3.

My biggest gripe with Apollo Justice? Good game with a good plot and good characters dragged down by poorly thought out and sloppyly executed pacing and presentation.
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Kiero wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
The fact that in 4-4 Phoenix's sprite looks like crap compared to Klavier's.. .D:
Image vs Image


Spoiler:
Regarding this, I didn't really mind seeing the old sprites again, but it kind of bothered me since the GBA sprites are a bit smaller than the DS ones. Payne, Hotti/Hickfield, Phoenix and Gumshoe all looked disproportionate compared to everyone else (the judge too, but he doesn't count because he's supposed to be further away). :S

Re: What pissed you off in Apollo Justice? SpoilersTopic%20Title

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Quote:
Also there were a lot of black and white flashbacks... like I don't already know the stuff that JUST HAPPENED in court YESTERDAY.


It's not nearly as bad in AJ as it was in some of the other installments in the series. And at least in AJ, every black and white flashback that I recall was immediately after a suggested save point. So it makes sense, as you would stop playing at the save point, and then come back to a quick little refresher as to where you were located in the story. Whereas, in the earlier versions, the flashbacks were just thrown in willy-nilly, it seemed.
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It pissed me off how it didn't feel like I deserved Kristoph's breakdown in the end. Klavier kind of did most of the hard deducing work for Apollo.

:kyouya: Herr Forehead, didn't you notice anything weird about that trial?
:odoroki: Um, you seemed VERY prepared....?
:kyouya: And...? *hint hint*
:odoroki: Ummmm... oh oh!! I know! You knew about the forgery beforehand!
:kyouya: *gives cookie* :cookie:

The fact that you only heard one testimony from Kristoph made the battle feel very short-lived too. Lots of dialogue in between but they pretty much led you from testimony to *present the final piece of evidence that will screw him over* right away. No sense of victory whatsoever. :sadshoe:
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Spoiler: Epilouge Spoilers
I just really wanted Lamiroir to tell Apollo and Trucy that they're her children. I really wanted that. But I'll guess I'll just have to wait until GS5


Spoiler: Phoenix's Flashback
And I HATED that Phoenix, as a hobo, was such an ASS, and that in his flashback, he's just SO COCKY. Phoenix never underestimates the power of a prosecutor. He always treads lightly when it comes to someone new. Heck, he even feared Godot, who had NO track record as a prosecutor!

I miss my old Phoenix.

Although HoboHodo's personality just stuck to me. I think he's cool, but he's still an ass. :hobohodo:


EDITED for clarity.
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Re: What pissed you off in Apollo Justice? SpoilersTopic%20Title

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[quote="xfma_addictx"]
Spoiler: Epilouge Spoilers
I just really wanted Lamiroir to tell Apollo and Trucy that they're her children. I really wanted that. But I'll guess I'll just have to wait until GS5


This too. Considering how people just randomly get bumped off, and considering she just had her personal bodyguard killed, had some deep secrets revealed to her, you'd think she'd want to tell *THEM* about *THAT* as quickly as possible. Wait for the time is right? Uhhh, I think NOW is the right time. Sheesh.
Re: What pissed you off in Apollo Justice? SpoilersTopic%20Title

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xfma_addictx wrote:
Spoiler: Epilouge Spoilers
I just really wanted Lamiroir to tell Apollo and Trucy that they're her children. I really wanted that. But I'll guess I'll just have to wait until GS5


Spoiler: Phoenix's Flashback
And I HATED that Phoenix, as a hobo, was such an ASS, and that in his flashback, he's just SO COCKY. Phoenix never underestimates the power of a prosecutor. He always treads lightly when it comes to someone new. Heck, he even feared Godot, who had NO track record as a prosecutor!

I miss my old Phoenix.

Although HoboHodo's personality just stuck to me. I think he's cool, but he's still an ass. :hobohodo:


EDITED for clarity.



After all he went through he thought he could take a punk rock wannabe.
Spoiler:
And if his big brother, hadn't set up the case we would owned Klavier totally.
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You know what pissed me off?

Don't get me wrong, I like Hobo Phoenix, but he hogged ALL THE DAMN SCREEN TIME!

Spoiler: 4-1 and 4-4
Just look at Case 4-1 and 4-4. Phoenix basically does most of the talking during 4-1 and all Polly does is present evidence. Also, Phoenix was all up in your grill during Case 4-4, even to the point where you spent half the time playing as him. He was more generous in 4-2 and 4-3, but damn, let someone else take the spotlight for a change.

Also, he seemed too cocky during his last case...

I yell "OBJECTION!" in the court sometimes!
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The perceive system pissed me off, as half the time I didn't even know what I was looking for, and when I knew which statement to look at, the nervous bits would be something as weird as armpit sweat.

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Ty': Ace Attorney wrote:
Brushel
Spoiler: Epilogue/Credits
When Thalassa was going on and on about Apollo and Trucy, about how she was so proud of them and how she was thrilled to find out she had two children... uh, what about Machi? I know he's not her flesh and blood, and that he's probably serving time for the whole smuggling business, but hasn't she been caring for him like a mother since they started composing music together? It's like he completely dropped out of the picture.

lmao, I totally forgot about Machi. I think since his case was over and proved to be innocent, Thalassa wasn't too worried.
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Re: What pissed you off in Apollo Justice? SpoilersTopic%20Title

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Kiero wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
The fact that in 4-4 Phoenix's sprite looks like crap compared to Klavier's.. .D:
Image vs Image


Haha, fist time I saw that I thought Gavin looked far out of place, still cool though.

Spoiler: 4-4
As for the topic, the only thing that really annoyed me was Phoenix during the flashbacks refered to Mia as 'My Mentor' Considering how close the two were back then it just seemed odd he wouldn't name her as he remembered things about her, seems kinda cold.

Could be aruged after she left him to meet again sometime, he wanted to live on his own without constantly turning or thinking about her. But once again, I think he would probably look up more to her once he had lost his badge..

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I also felt disappointed with the ending. I wanted something epic, not a couple testimonies. :/

I also thought that the Percieve system was underused. It was like what? 4 times through the entire game?
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I was quite annoyed that the game wasn't about Apollo at all.

Phoenix in PW:AA had a story which revolved around him and the people he meets. AA:AJ had a story which revolved around Hobo's seven year quest.

You could remove Apollo and invent a whole new character in a matter of seconds, and it wouldn't make a jot of difference. In the investigation phases, he seems to have Phoenix's old personality, just with a different haircut. You could replace him with a spiky haired sandwich and still have the same game.
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Rookie wrote:
Quote:
Also there were a lot of black and white flashbacks... like I don't already know the stuff that JUST HAPPENED in court YESTERDAY.


It's not nearly as bad in AJ as it was in some of the other installments in the series. And at least in AJ, every black and white flashback that I recall was immediately after a suggested save point. So it makes sense, as you would stop playing at the save point, and then come back to a quick little refresher as to where you were located in the story. Whereas, in the earlier versions, the flashbacks were just thrown in willy-nilly, it seemed.


Oh, it's MUCH worse in AJ than it is in all three of the games. Or at least, it's much more obtrusive.

How many goddamn times do we need to see LeTouse die or watch the video of the concert?
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Oh my god that video! I couldn't stand it at all by the end of that case! I have to agree though that Apollo seemed fairly unimportant for a titicular character. Also, it didn't really piss me off so much as I just thought it was wierd how often Apollo brought up Trucy's panties. :odoroki:
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Lot of things bugged me about it, but it was still enjoyable (it's GS, it had to be at least somewhat enjoyable). I have to say, the cases failed to grip me and draw me into the game like in the other 3 games. I did get really excited when I realized that I had figured out 4-3, but outside of that one moment, I disliked the cases, save 4-1. Also, the characters were awful, IMHO. This ties directly into the trouble with the cases; I didn't find myself caring for my defendants like in the other games (I felt an irresistible urge to "cap" Wokki. And Machi, ARGH! I hated that little twerp.).

The final case was probably the biggest let down in the series. In all the other games, the final trial is the "showdown", the final battle with the evil prosecutor who's been taunting you throughout the game. It's also usually the hardest case in the game. Apollo Justice, however, completely deviates from this formula. The final case was incredibly easy, and the prosecutor was hardly evil; more annoying than anything else (though he did get "taunt" down perfectly). And the showdown with the murderer....! Present one piece of easy evidence, and you're done. The other games had crazy Objection Battles, and were incredibly intense (I'm thinking 3-5 here).

I've got a lot more that could be said, but it's mostly nitpicking and complaints about specific characters. Apollo Justice had a lot of potential, but failed to live up to most of it. Hopefully GS5 will remedy this.


PS Does anyone else find it annoying how many performers are in the Phoenix Wright world?! (Steel Samurai, that friggin' circus in JFA, 2-4, and now these damn magicians.) Give me something different!
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*cough*Vera*cough*

*Leaves*
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Mysticgamer wrote:
Zak ran away in court, used his daughter as a decoy, he abandoned her with his lawyer for seven years, came back to solely talk to Phoenix for a few minutes, then he challenged him to a rigged game of poker so he can ruin his new career (which he's using to support the daughter he abandoned) and refused to see.

And of course my favorite...Motive is not mentioned unless the actual murder is on the stand... (Wouldn't you wonder why an agoraphobic would kill her father?)

What about you guys?



not only that, but then he went and hit the person he hired with a wine bottle! how violent, zak!
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I was kind of annoyed at how badly Klavier's 3D model in the 4-3 video was done =\. You can kind of hide bad modeling behind a cloak and dress like Lamiroir, but Klavier's was blatantly obvious. Animated well (probably because of motion-capturing), but built quite.. badly. :sadshoe: When they made you watch it over and over again I cringed every time I saw him.
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Wocky Kitaki wrote:
*cough*Vera*cough*

*Leaves*
What?! How can you not like Vera? Vera was awesome, probably the best thing about 4-4. And speaking of which...

4-4 was the biggest disappointment in the game. 4-2 and 4-3 were great (even if it involved seeing that movie so many times) and I can forgive 4-1's flaws because it was a tutorial, but 4-4? There were, appropriately, four things wrong with it.
1) It's the last case. The first two GBA games had only four cases. But this is the DS. It can hold a lot more. The fact Rise from the Ashes was added (which was the longest case in the game) to the first game for the DS released proves that. We should've had at least five cases here.

2) No hook until well into the case. There's nothing that separates it from the previous cases, that makes it stand out at the start. Let's review: 1-4 had one of the coolest "teasers" (the video you see before you start) in the game. It really makes you want to play. 2-4 took the longest of the first three games, but having a kidnapper kidnap Maya (okay, so Maya in trouble was done to death, but still...) and require you to get someone a Not Guilty verdict in exchange for letting her go free was an amazing hook. All kinds of questions come to you...can you manage to do this in one day? Is the client guilty? If he isn't guilty, why is the assassin trying to get him of the hook? 3-5 got you hooked the instant you saw that magazine's picture. But 4-4? Nothing until you find out that Vera was the forger, which is pretty far in.

3) Length. I could handle there being only four cases if this case was longer than Rise From The Ashes. But it was possibly the shortest final case.

4) A lame climax. I was geared up for a long, tricky showdown with Kristoph at the end. And then...er...it doesn't exactly happen. It's too short, and when his breakdown occurs it doesn't feel like you did anything to cause it. Redd White was more challenging to bring down, even if Deus Ex Mia had to help you out at the last minute. Just to add insult to injury, the last question they ask you is literally, "Do you want to win this game? Yes or no."

Those are the big ones. There were a few smaller problems, like the lack of those cool pictures on the case select screen (remember how in the first three games, when you selected cases, there would be a cool background showing stuff from it?) And the Mason system? Couldn't they have at least explained what that blasted thing was?

There were good things, of course. I loved the characters (they made the game) and I did like how the lifebar recovers a little more often.
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Spoiler:
THE FACT I NEED TO CHECK SOME OLD MAN'S ARMPITS. UGH SO GROSS DDDDDDD8!!!!!!

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I hated how they carelessly changed the name of the local clinic (where :hotti: is). IT'S HOTTI NOT HICKFIELD! :edgeworth:
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Maksie99 wrote:
I hated how they carelessly changed the name of the local clinic (where :hotti: is). IT'S HOTTI NOT HICKFIELD! :edgeworth:
Okay...one more time...

THEY CHANGED IT IN THE ENGLISH VERSION BECAUSE IT WAS CHANGED IN THE ORIGINAL JAPANESE VERSION. IT WAS INTENTIONAL!
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You know with all the lack of what would have made the game great, they're gonna have a hard time making GS5 awesome without confusing/disappointing the heck out of people.

Back on topic:

Spoiler:
Last evidence presented in 4-4 + 5 minutes of "Oh I knew this....and this......and this" = crumbled climax.
Also, I agree the lack of Apollo back story/involvement/presence hindered the idea of the game "Apollo Justice". (which is one of the reasons it'll be hard to make a good second/final AJ aka GS5/6/9000)
I won't say much about the Mason System other than it's confusing to everyone.
I'll think of more later.


Don't get me wrong though. Despite it all, I still thoroughly enjoyed the game.
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Klavier making fun of Apollo's forehead constantly annoyed me because it ensured that when I look at Apollo, it's all I can think of.
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The fact that you barely get to know any of the defendants kinda irked me.

Also speaking of which we never find out why Machi (or Daryan for that matter) needed money.
Spoiler:
Or what even happened to Machi after the trial (but I think that was mentioned already). I still think Lamiroir should cared a bit more about it. ("I'm sorry Machi's on trial for the cocoon, Lamiroir!" "...Oh, he'll be fine."

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Salutation Here wrote:
Klavier making fun of Apollo's forehead constantly annoyed me because it ensured that when I look at Apollo, it's all I can think of.

I think somebody told Apollo that when he's making things up, his forehead lights up, and that's how his parents knew when he lied. This manifested itself as an unstoppable urge to poke his own forehead all the time.
I really am the guy from the Objection! website, y'know! :(
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Aevitas wrote:
It pissed me off how it didn't feel like I deserved Kristoph's breakdown in the end. Klavier kind of did most of the hard deducing work for Apollo.

:kyouya: Herr Forehead, didn't you notice anything weird about that trial?
:odoroki: Um, you seemed VERY prepared....?
:kyouya: And...? *hint hint*
:odoroki: Ummmm... oh oh!! I know! You knew about the forgery beforehand!
:kyouya: *gives cookie* :cookie:

The fact that you only heard one testimony from Kristoph made the battle feel very short-lived too. Lots of dialogue in between but they pretty much led you from testimony to *present the final piece of evidence that will screw him over* right away. No sense of victory whatsoever. :sadshoe:



Yeah, Apollo was just there for the ride. Phoenix got the evidence over the course of seven years if the Mason system is correct and Klavier held Apollo's hand in the trial to help him solve the case. Lame!

Last edited by Mysticgamer on Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Spoiler: What do you think?
The whole Trucy and Polly are Lamirior's kids thing was cool, but please, tell me: WHO THE HELL'S APOLLO'S DAD? They better clear it up in GS5...
Also, MASON system is just... I'm not even gonna start.
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Well, of course it's not all about Apollo, they only name the game after him in the American/global version. In actuality, it's about the courtroom trials and the people involved in them. Plus, it's the first game after Phoenix was disbarred, so I'm betting the programming team felt obliged to clue in on why and how.
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The only thing that I didn't like about this game was the complete lack of chemistry between Apollo and Klavier, and I don't mean that in a sexual way. Honestly, Klavier and Apollo are good characters and all, but it felt like I was accomplishing nothing in the court room. There was no "spark".To be perfectly honest, it felt more satisfying beating Payne in the first case than any of the times I beat Klavier.
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Lack of Mike Meekins!! NEEDS MOAR!

Ok, now seriously, I really was annoyed with a bit of case 3 and 4

Case 3:
Spoiler: 4-3
Daryan gave no exact reason why he killed LeTouse nor did he give one for the cocoon theft, you really didn't get to know him as a character, so it was truly unclear as to how he was a suspect.


4-4:
Spoiler: 4-4
Now two things really bugged me about this case.

1. Vera was never established as having a motive, sure she was the only one found with the victim, but he was her father for God's sake!

2. The crime photo for the past case also bugged me. I mean when shot in the head, isn't there supposed ALOT of blood? I mean there was not one drop of blood at the scene of the crime.


Oh and in 4-4 having Klaiver air-guitar every 5 seconds got real annoying!
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I thought of something else. I was annoyed when Apollo presented the wrong evidence and he says the EXACT SAME THING that Phoenix says when he presents wrong evidence, and the judge replies in the EXACT SAME WAY. They even changed the dialogue for Edgey when you play as him in T&T (and it was awesome)! Apollo doesn't even have his own penalty dialogue in his own game.. wow.
Re: What pissed you off in Apollo Justice? SpoilersTopic%20Title

Lazy

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:16 am

Posts: 3

There were a few unresolved things that I really, really want to know. Like, why Machi wanted the money. I'm almost 100% certain he wanted it for Lamiroir's eye surgery, but that last 1% is driving me crazy.

The last case was also a bust. There wasn't the final 'aha' moment I've always loved about these games, just 'lolownt by jury'. I didn't feel like I did anything, that I was just reading off of a script Phoenix had written for me beforehand. Can't believe that I ended up liking the first case the most.
Re: What pissed you off in Apollo Justice? SpoilersTopic%20Title
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Lolwut?

Gender: Female

Location: Florida

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:30 pm

Posts: 826

Aevitas wrote:
I thought of something else. I was annoyed when Apollo presented the wrong evidence and he says the EXACT SAME THING that Phoenix says when he presents wrong evidence, and the judge replies in the EXACT SAME WAY. They even changed the dialogue for Edgey when you play as him in T&T (and it was awesome)! Apollo doesn't even have his own penalty dialogue in his own game.. wow.

It is a sad day when the supposed main character can't have his own unique dialogue... probably just more subtle hinting of Nick taking over Apollo's game.
Too lazy... hur hur.
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