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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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The Father of Death

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*Reads part 5*
Now I REALLY sympathize with Kristoph.

Mr. Bear wrote:
Allan's Aokage wrote:
Mr. Bear wrote:
It's more "true" than "funny", really.

Going into editing quotes, I see?

I've done it quite a few times, as have others, but this is the first anyone's ever raised a voice.


...Idiot.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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*insert quote tree here*

If you wanted to say you didn't find it funny, why didn't you just say it yourself instead of editing someone else's quote?

And oh my gawd the bonus comic. XD I shouldn't laugh at things that make Trucy cry, but that was painfully hilarious.
Spoiler: 4-4
Kristoph's angry!hand in the fifth comic was also made of win.

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xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Hahahahaahah i laught so hard with the comics
They are freakin' awesome xDDD

I don't think that Zak is as bad as you look him like, but there are a few things about him actions that disappoint me a bit.
Spoiler: 4-4
However, what can he do?
He is accused of shooting magnifi, and he didn't knew about the page that trucy gave Phoenix.
And if he gives the real page to him, to present it as evidence, he would look even more suspicious.
But even so, it is a bit jerk. There are some stupidities that made had no effect, and that, surely, things got worse.

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Thanx Elriel! ^,^ ¡Los españoles dominaremos el mundo! XD
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Spoiler: 4-4
Didn't know about the page. Trucy gave it to Phoenix right in front of Zak before the trial began. Plus Zak still should have shown Phoenix the page at the very least. It would help a lot concerning the fact that he was the last person that Magnifi supposedly spoke to. As for looking for suspicious there are handwriting analysis that can be done. They could prove that Magnifi wrote it. And Phoenix presented it in court and Klavier called him out then Drew could have quickly find out that it wasn't his daughter that made the page.

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Spoiler: 4-4
Remember what game are we talking about, right?
An ace Attorney Game. In every game of the saga, the so-bad prosecutor always use the defense's evidences to make the suspect look guilty.
Indeed, what would happen if the court knows that Zak will have the magic when magnifi dies? Instantly, Klavier could make the theory that Zak killed magnifi to get his magic as soon as possible.
And if he has a motive, he is guilty.
Phoenix could have stretched a little more with the view that Valant was who shoot Magnifi? Yeah, but the fate of Zak was to be found guilty. As long as Valant not testify on the suicide of magnifi.

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I dislike Zak but I love the comic! :3
You can call me whatever you want:3
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title

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The comic is definitely hilarious. Now a pic.
Spoiler: possible spoiler

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Ooh 8O~ -spots a certain someone behind him-
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: Link to the past
The comic features Val like an innocent boy, but he was on framing Zak for the "murder" of Valant, therefore he was going to kill him, but Magnifi killed Himself instead. I think everyone was jerk in this troupr, except thasala.

*reads apollo kick gag* AWESOME

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One K, one R, two V's. Gawd.

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XD Oh my god, these are great. Still love Zak, though.
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WhiteElephant wrote:
Mia_Fey wrote:
WhiteElephant wrote:
But in relevance to the discussion- not even Olga thought highly of Shadi Smith.

Spoiler: 4-1
I'm surprised she didn't reveal that he hit her with the bottle. She had nothing to lose really to begin with and telling the court she was attacked right from the start would establish an alibi for herself and she couldn't be suspected for murdering Zak.

Then again she was probably pissed off at Phoenix for finding the card she sneaked into his pocket so she probably wanted to get them to pin the murder on him using her little, but relevant testimony. Not that it worked out in the end though.


Spoiler: 4-1, 4-4
To be fair, even if she could have proven that Zak had hit her (I assume she had bruises but she may not have), it doesn't prove that she was unconscious at the time or that she stayed unconscious. If anything it would have made it very clear that she had a motive to kill. He's going to ruin her career and on top of that he hit her, so she killed him (besides it does come out that he hit her in court and Kristoph is quick to try and discredit it by calling her a liar. Had Phoenix not intervened, she could have been in serious trouble). Certainly sounds like a stronger motive then what they had for Phoenix at the time which was simply that he lost the game.I think she says something along those lines when Apollo has finally cornered her.


Spoiler: 4-1, 4-4
True, true. But Phoenix's testimony could have cleared that out. Remember, he came back and saw Zak dead and her still unconscious. Not to mention she probably had some kind of bruise/scar on her neck if she kept touching it during her testimony. A medical examination could have determined if she suffered a concussion from the blow (she was touching near her upper neck/bottom head. A blow around that area is near the skull itself, so there's probably a 50% probability that she would have blacked out) thus clearing out doubts of her being conscious or not.
Spoiler: 4-1, 4-4
But what if she woke up earlier from the concussion and then killed him? They may prove a concussion, but she could have still woken up from it and then killed Zak.

Jesus is Lord.

Death Note is awesome.

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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title

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Angelux wrote:
Spoiler: Link to the past
The comic features Val like an innocent boy, but he was on framing Zak for the "murder" of Valant, therefore he was going to kill him, but Magnifi killed Himself instead. I think everyone was jerk in this troupr, except thasala.

*reads apollo kick gag* AWESOME

Spoiler:
But Thalassa made Apollo without family by leaving him behind when he was just a little baby.

But I'm sure there's a good explanation.... There better be.
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chazooma wrote:
Angelux wrote:
Spoiler: Link to the past
The comic features Val like an innocent boy, but he was on framing Zak for the "murder" of Valant, therefore he was going to kill him, but Magnifi killed Himself instead. I think everyone was jerk in this troupr, except thasala.

*reads apollo kick gag* AWESOME

Spoiler:
But Thalassa made Apollo without family by leaving him behind when he was just a little baby.

But I'm sure there's a good explanation.... There better be.


Probably after the
Spoiler:
accident
He was
Spoiler:
lost in action

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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title

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Saw these on gamefaqs, best video game related comic ever.
Brawl number is : 2578 3028 6741
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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Putting Smiles on those Faces.

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Put me down in the 'Zak is a jerk' crowd. While you could make justifications for much of what he did, based on his situation and circumstances, these don't really soften his jerkiness. Also, he does one thing that it utterly unforgivable in my eyes.

Spoiler: The ultimate sin, also a spoiler for 4-1
He hit Olga with a bottle. Because she did what she was told and it didn't work, which was because Phoenix found it in the place it was supposed ot be found.

But he hit Olga. And for that, he must die by tentacles :gant:

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There are no words on how much a total JERK this guy is. His actions make no sense. WTF, dismissing an attorney based on a poker game?!
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dreamwhisperer wrote:
There are no words on how much a total JERK this guy is. His actions make no sense. WTF, dismissing an attorney based on a poker game?!


Because he was EEEEEEVVVVVIIIIIIIILLLLLLL!!!!! :accordion-head:

....yeah, that was pretty damn stupid. If it had made any difference, then maybe, but he didn't change anything about it except to fire the guy who had already worked at it. :gant:
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It's because you can judge what kind of person someone is THROUGH POKER! :butzthumbs:

Of course, then Zak challenges Phoenix again seven years later and tries to cheat him. Not hypocritical in the slightest. :yuusaku:
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oh my god XDDD freaking AMAZING
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Yay there's more XD I'm somewhat excited to return to school tomorrow after 2 weeks because I'll get to stare at the comics for two blocks :D

Oh Zak, we love it when you're a jerk.
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Mia_Fey wrote:
I really don't see your point about Phoenix's attitude hurting Zak. If he didn't present that page, the judge was going to accept that journal as decisive evidence against Zak and come down with a guilty verdict.


Hmm... I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that point. To be honest, (in my opinion) nothing about that diary was decisive due to the fact that the next page was ripped and due to Phoenix's great job at making Valant look suspicious). In fact, the very fact that a page was even torn would only benefit Zak's case (my opinion) because Valant was proven to be at the crime scene after him.
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Ringman wrote:
Hmm... I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that point. To be honest, (in my opinion) nothing about that diary was decisive due to the fact that the next page was ripped and due to Phoenix's great job at making Valant look suspicious). In fact, the very fact that a page was even torn would only benefit Zak's case (my opinion) because Valant was proven to be at the crime scene after him.


The game tells us that if Phoenix didn't present that page, then the trial was over. More then that, the journal was decisive evidence because the last page stated that if Magnifi didn't die by Zak's hand then he would continue writing in it. Klavier warns Phoenix that simply presenting the journal won't be enough and that he better have some evidence of his own that was more decisive if he wished to counter the journal. Phoenix had no choice, but to present the journal if he wished to save Zak.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Ringman wrote:
Hmm... I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that point. To be honest, (in my opinion) nothing about that diary was decisive due to the fact that the next page was ripped and due to Phoenix's great job at making Valant look suspicious). In fact, the very fact that a page was even torn would only benefit Zak's case (my opinion) because Valant was proven to be at the crime scene after him.


The game tells us that if Phoenix didn't present that page, then the trial was over. More then that, the journal was decisive evidence because the last page stated that if Magnifi didn't die by Zak's hand then he would continue writing in it. Klavier warns Phoenix that simply presenting the journal won't be enough and that he better have some evidence of his own that was more decisive if he wished to counter the journal. Phoenix had no choice, but to present the journal if he wished to save Zak.

That part drove me absolutely nuts.

:kyouya: - Let's see some evidence if you don't want your client found guilty! Oh, and you can't just present the diary to show there was clearly a page torn out!

Me - ...*sighs, presents page*

:kyouya: - Haha, I knew you couldn't resist presenting that forged evidence!

Me - Yeah, you definately didn't force me into it, jackass. :butz:


Klavier is also a jerk.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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Mehh, If Phoenix pointed out there was a page missing, Klavier would pull some shit along the lines of "Ohh yeah, well, the missing page could be blank. Do you have proof that the missing page is important." and the Judge, biased towards prosecutors, would then go "Show me evidence, you spiky haired fuck."

And then...we know what happens. All I can say is.

Zak, you fucking jerk...
I yell "OBJECTION!" in the court sometimes!
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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BSTCloud wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
Remember what game are we talking about, right?
An ace Attorney Game. In every game of the saga, the so-bad prosecutor always use the defense's evidences to make the suspect look guilty.
Indeed, what would happen if the court knows that Zak will have the magic when magnifi dies? Instantly, Klavier could make the theory that Zak killed magnifi to get his magic as soon as possible.
And if he has a motive, he is guilty.
Phoenix could have stretched a little more with the view that Valant was who shoot Magnifi? Yeah, but the fate of Zak was to be found guilty. As long as Valant not testify on the suicide of magnifi.


Spoiler: 4-4 Spoilers
But Magnifi had liver cancer and acute diabetes. There would be no point in killing the man, considering that would only be a couple months before he was dead anyway. Klavier points this out at the beginning of the trial, offering the letter as an explanation as to why he was killed. In addition, this gives Valant an extremely solid motive, in addition to the letter. After Zak had gotten everything else, Valant couldn't even have the rights to Magnifi's magic, and was basicially told to either
1. Be Zak's "lovely assistant" (THE IMAGES. DEAR GOD.)
2. Quit magic.

Therefore it would be simple to put pressure on Valant from there, and get him to talk about how the oldest Gramarye killed himself. If everything went well from there, Valant would get a lesser sentence due to his tampering with the evidence, and Zak would be a free man.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Zak Gramarye: Jerk or JERK (Spoilers lol)Topic%20Title

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Mia_Fey wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
Zak could have stopped everything by simply telling Phoenix what happened that night instead of all the secrets and showing him the real page from the journal. I assume had he been found not guilty that paper wouldn't have stayed a secret, so why continue to hide it? Besides, showing up to ruin the guy who has been taking care of his kid for seven years (despite the fact that he had lost his only source of income at least partly because of Zak who proceeded to abandon him) which would have hurt Trucy as much as Phoenix since they relied on the money he made at the club and that money came from Phoenix's undefeated reputation. On top of that, he could have killed Olga! Hitting someone on the head with a bottle is not a minor thing... as Zak discovered. Honestly though, Trucy is probably better off with Phoenix then she would be with Zak. Phoenix is a sweet daddy. :) Zak's a jerk, but a fun jerk although he screwed Phoenix and Trucy over and that annoys me more than a little.


Spoiler: 4-4
Actually, if you examine the piano in the background, Zak says something, prompting Phoenix to ask him to make it dissapear. Zak gives him a blank stare, before laughing, thinking him to be joking. It seems he didn't know that Phoenix relies on poker to make a living. While yes he was sort of responsable for Phoenix's disbarring, he didn't know about the forgery, so he didn't think he had to show that note.

He's not entirely bad, either. Remember how he reacted when Phoenix told him about Valant's situation? Though I have to admit that hitting Olga was completely unjustified.
Re: Zak Gramarye: Jerk or JERK (Spoilers lol)Topic%20Title

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UserShadow7989 wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
Actually, if you examine the piano in the background, Zak says something, prompting Phoenix to ask him to make it dissapear. Zak gives him a blank stare, before laughing, thinking him to be joking. It seems he didn't know that Phoenix relies on poker to make a living. While yes he was sort of responsable for Phoenix's disbarring, he didn't know about the forgery, so he didn't think he had to show that note.

He's not entirely bad, either. Remember how he reacted when Phoenix told him about Valant's situation? Though I have to admit that hitting Olga was completely unjustified.


Spoiler: 4-4
He clearly does know how Phoenix makes a living. He comes back with secondary purpose of engaging Phoenix in a game of poker. He tells him that he's heard that the Borsct Bowl Club is the place to go for a good competition and now he could see that it was true. I think he even knows the name of the room that he usually plays in. That he had heard that Phoenix never lost. They talk about how Trucy helps him with poker. After a joking response about a taking song request (which Phoenix precedes to tell him was a joke because he didn't take song request, Zak responds that he has a different sort of request because he plays cards. Phoenix then references him a "customer" aloud and mentions that he was hoping someone would come and save him from a night on the keys (Which makes it pretty clear that this was not a hobby, but a job. If this was just his pastime he would not reference Zak as a customer or be obligated to do anything he didn't wish to do, but since he's clearly working, he must do his job). Zak puts Olga there as a plant (acting as a waitress) a couple days before they meet so that he could cheat against Phoenix in a game of poker. Olga states that she had been put there to destroy Phoenix's legend (Implying that he was very well know and did this as more then a minor pastime. You don't become a legend by playing every once in a while). It's rather clearly not a hobby and neither man treats it as such. He's more surprised to find the piano there then he is about the poker. He already knew that Phoenix made a living through poker, but he hadn't realized Phoenix played piano (which he doesn't really <_<).

Also, he may not have known about the forgery, but I have trouble understanding why hide the note in the first place. It may not have proven that he didn't shoot Magnifi, but it does show that the meeting ended on good terms and backs up Zak's story (particularly since Phoenix was begging for information to help with the case). Why he hired Phoenix at the last minute like that (or waited until all hell had broken lose to run off, particularly since he had at least a hint about what Kristoph was like considering his later comment about Kristoph's true nature, he probably suspected something might happen) when he was only going to run away anyway. He could have done that just as well with Kristoph or any other attorney. Why he insisted on hiding these things from someone who was trying desperately to save him and had been given almost no warning before taking the case. I agree that writing that confession was a non-jerky thing to do and I believe I defended him at some point in this thread or Valant's thread. I can't remember now.

I'm not saying he isn't a fun jerk, but he is a jerk. :P
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
Why he hired Phoenix at the last minute like that (or waited until all hell had broken lose to run off, particularly since he had at least a hint about what Kristoph was like considering his later comment about Kristoph's true nature, he probably suspected something might happen) when he was only going to run away anyway. He could have done that just as well with Kristoph or any other attorney.

Zak needed somebody to take care of Trucy while he was in hiding. If he stuck with Kristoph, he probably wouldn't have taken Trucy in, or worse, twisted her a la von Karma and Edgeworth. Still, he could have picked a much less jerky way of getting someone to adopt his daughter. :yuusaku:
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I completely agree with you, Franzise, about that being Zak's reasoning. :) And as you also point out, it doesn't change the fact that Zak chose a very jerky way of getting him to adopt Trucy. I'll let Zak's jerkiness go on this one though because :hobohodo: is a sweet daddy.
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Spoiler: 4-4
Really? I don't remember that part- I'll have to look up a youtube video and refresh my memory. Also, you said Apollo when you meant Phoenix.

EDIT:Nevermind, it's just the April Fools Censor again.
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Spoiler: 4-4
The only thing I never understood about the relationship was why did John have to be left behind by Thalassa?
Zak was totally swinging with the idea of having Trucy Justice...

UNLESS SHE WAS AN ACCIDENT. THAT DICK D:<
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Zak needed somebody to take care of Trucy while he was in hiding. If he stuck with Kristoph, he probably wouldn't have taken Trucy in, or worse, twisted her a la von Hustle and La Li Lu Le Lo. Still, he could have picked a much less jerky way of getting someone to adopt his daughter. :yuusaku:


Unfortunatly, there's a contradiction in that regard. How would Zak know Nicky-boy would adopt Trucy for sure? He could had easily taken her to the police, who would help her find a foster family. Also consider the events of case 4-1, where Zak tried to ruin Nicky's only source of income to support his daughter. Dosen't say much good about him.

Seriously, the man was a downright jerk who's responsible for ruining the lives of many innocent people and cost our hero his calling in life. Frankly I'm glad he's dead.
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Re: Zak Gramarye: Jerk or JERK (Spoilers lol)Topic%20Title

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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Unfortunatly, there's a contradiction in that regard. How would Zak know Nicky-boy would adopt Trucy for sure? He could had easily taken her to the police, who would help her find a foster family.


Zak used PW/AJ logic. :P Nicky is good, so he would at least make sure that Trucy was taken care of in some way and Kristoph is evil, so he would have abandoned Trucy or worse. I do recall Trucy mentioning that Zak had told her that she could trust Nicky, so Zak does appear to have been setting something along those lines up. Doesn't excuse his jerkiness of course. <_<
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Re: Zak Gramarye: Jerk or JERK (Spoilers lol)Topic%20Title
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Seriously, the man was a downright jerk who's responsible for ruining the lives of many innocent people and cost our hero his calling in life. Frankly I'm glad he's dead.


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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: 4-4
I wonder if Kristoph gave it to Trucy all by himself, or did he pay/ask someone to do it for him... and why didn't Phoenix ask about the person? I would be suspicious if "some guy" asked the little girl to give me a decisive piece of evidence that he shouldn't really have.
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Hiroshi wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
I wonder if Kristoph gave it to Trucy all by himself, or did he pay/ask someone to do it for him... and why didn't Apollo ask about the person? I would be suspicious if "some guy" asked the little girl to give me a decisive piece of da proofs that he shouldn't really have.

Spoiler: 4-4
It is fan-belief that it was Kristoph who gave Trucy the page. Trucy back then didn't know it could have hurt her father's case (I mean- she was eight). And asking someone to deliver it for him would mean he would have to watch yet another person after the incident to make sure they would never tell about what he did. Plus we all know how Phoenix is. If it's somewhere on the ground or if someone he can trust gives it to him: he'll probably use it in court.

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Re: Zak Gramarye: Jerk or JERK (Spoilers lol)Topic%20Title
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Seriously, the man was a downright jerk who's responsible for ruining the lives of many innocent people and cost our hero his calling in life. Frankly I'm glad he's dead.


If by 'jerk' you mean 'short-sighted idiot', then I agree (also to the 'jerk' in and of itself).

Spoiler: Insurance
The way I see it, he tried to diffuse and eliminate a sticky situation for himself in the most ham-fisted way possible, which lead to excessive collateral damage and, eventually, his own death.

I have no doubt he thought what he was doing was in the best interest of Trucy; however, 'thought' is used ironically, as his lack of thought for anyone other than himself and his daughter resulted in a seven-year clusterfuck that further ended with his death.

What catapults him into the 'jerk' level, is, as I said, is his quick temper and selfishness, particularly where he decided that the best way to respond to things not going as he wants them is to use violence, such as hitting a woman on the head with a bottle.

Look what he does to Spark, too. He's not just a jerk, he's downright abusive.

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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title

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So Zak is definitely a jerk, but this pic is adorable... of course he looks like more of a jerk when you consider what he's clearly setting up. :P
Spoiler: 4-4
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Source here
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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That is a cute picture Mia. Though I still wanna join Phoenix, Valant, Olga and Kristoph in a session of Zak-beating-with grape-juice-bottles. =.='

And I still fail to understand why if he intended on Phoenix adopting Trucy, that he would allow Phoenix to get disbarred as a lawyer, then seven years later, try to ruin his poker playing gig, which would get him fired from that job as well. If a parent is going to let someone else adopt their child, you should make sure they have a means of income.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: 4-4
I don't think Zak believed Phoenix would adopt Trucy. I think he just abandoned her and didn't care. It's only because Phoenix is so excessively kind-hearted that he did so. Most people definitely would not.

And it's obvious he's totally ungrateful, 'thanking' Phoenix by trying to destroy his new career by again falsely framing him as a fraud. I don't think he cares about Trucy at all. He only gave her the rights out of spite so Valant wouldn't get them.

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