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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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If you're hinting at something, I'm not seeing it, but I do oddly agree that it's a likely scenario. It just seems like it would happen.
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Yeah, that was what I was aiming at. It's "obvious" to me the same way Apollo being gay is obvious - I don't have any basis for it, I just can't picture it not being that way.
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...Wait, what? Apollo being gay is somehow obvious too? <.< Uhh, okay.
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Like I said- " I don't have any basis for it, I just can't picture it not being that way."
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Given the canon material... Uh, I can, I think.
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Like I said- " I don't have any basis for it, I just can't picture it not being that way."

Given the cannon material he shows absolutely no signs of being gay whatsoever. And in fact there is WAY more evidence toward him being strait. Especially in Dual Destinies.

Spoiler:
And before you say anything about Clay, I have a friend like that who is my own gender. Does that make me gay with her? HELL NO! It REALLY bugs me when people turn same-sexed-friendships into actual relationships when their not. Now, this is assuming you were going to bring up Clay. If you weren't then never-mind what I just said.

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Ucha Nekome wrote:
GoingforMiles wrote:
Like I said- " I don't have any basis for it, I just can't picture it not being that way."

Given the cannon material he shows absolutely no signs of being gay whatsoever. And in fact there is WAY more evidence toward him being strait. Especially in Dual Destinies.

Spoiler:
And before you say anything about Clay, I have a friend like that who is my own gender. Does that make me gay with her? HELL NO! It REALLY bugs me when people turn same-sexed-friendships into actual relationships when their not. Now, this is assuming you were going to bring up Clay. If you weren't then never-mind what I just said.


Well... technically there's no evidence either way, so either opinions are just as valid.
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Ucha!
First of all, I said I didn't have any basis for it, that was the whole reason I even brought it up. And honestly I've never seen any evidence of him being straight. The closest thing I can think of is when he chomps the lotus root Juniper gve him just like that to show his gratitude, and the fact that he saved her, but no... I don't see it.

And now I'm gonna contradict my own words and say I see hints of him liking men or rather a man. Because it's like this: my headcanon of Apollo being gay came without any particular reason while I was playing AJ because I'd heard people ship him with Klavier and I thought "Well, I don't think he likes Klavier like that but he might be gay" and then the thought just stuck. However as I progressed in the game I saw hints of him being, perhaps not in love but attracted to Klavier; the reason I don't say I have any basis for Apollo liking men is because I don't feel like discussing it as it's mainly a gut feeling for me and not based on said basis.

However, what I can think of now is: Apollo, in Klavier's words "inspecting" him (but that may just as well be because he reminded him of Kristoph), the "what's 'hard'?!" comment, "even more dazzling to look at now" and in Turnabout Quiz when he sai only Klavier was allowed to call him "Herr Forehead", then he was quick to say that he didn't like Klavier calling him that either, to which Phoenix, amused, responded something along the lines of ok, calm down.

Then again, I don't feel like discussing hints, "evidence" or whatever of his sexuality, even though I guess I already am, becaus it's mainly gut feeling for me. A strong gut feeling, but still. :apollo: (And yes, I will ignore what was in the spoiler tag because I definitely don't think of him and Clay like that.)
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Ucha!
First of all, I said I didn't have any basis for it, that was the whole reason I even brought it up. And honestly I've never seen any evidence of him being straight. The closest thing I can think of is when he chomps the lotus root Juniper gve him just like that to show his gratitude, and the fact that he saved her, but no... I don't see it.

And now I'm gonna contradict my own words and say I see hints of him liking men or rather a man. Because it's like this: my headcanon of Apollo being gay came without any particular reason while I was playing AJ because I'd heard people ship him with Klavier and I thought "Well, I don't think he likes Klavier like that but he might be gay" and then the thought just stuck. However as I progressed in the game I saw hints of him being, perhaps not in love but attracted to Klavier; the reason I don't say I have any basis for Apollo liking men is because I don't feel like discussing it as it's mainly a gut feeling for me and not based on said basis.

However, what I can think of now is: Apollo, in Klavier's words "inspecting" him (but that may just as well be because he reminded him of Kristoph), the "what's 'hard'?!" comment, "even more dazzling to look at now" and in Turnabout Quiz when he sai only Klavier was allowed to call him "Herr Forehead", then he was quick to say that he didn't like Klavier calling him that either, to which Phoenix, amused, responded something along the lines of ok, calm down.

Then again, I don't feel like discussing hints, "evidence" or whatever of his sexuality, even though I guess I already am, becaus it's mainly gut feeling for me. A strong gut feeling, but still. :apollo: (And yes, I will ignore what was in the spoiler tag because I definitely don't think of him and Clay like that.)


Umm...Other than the spoiler post, I said two sentences...I got back a paragraph. Well I'm gonna say this much the reason I'm so quick to knock down any "gay theories" is because most of them are done for the self satisfaction of yaoi fangirls and as a fan it makes me sick to see all the fanart and stuff forcing characters into relationships that could never happen. Now it'd be one thing if Apollo said he was gay or, I don't know...Kissed a guy...But he hasn't, so he isn't. And until he does no one will convince me otherwise.
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry for writing a lengthy post. So very sorry. Actually, you got back three sentences for your two, that is the first part, the rest of it was just me drifting away in my own thoughts about the matter. And I can assure you I'm not a yaoi fangirl, nor do I want Apollo to be gay for my own pleasure, I just really think he is.
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is gay.
One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is straight.
Why is that even worth debating? (And I'm biased, because I'm rather ticked off that, as soon as someone imagines a character being anything but straight, it always comes down to "yaoi fangirls" and "self satisfaction", but imagining someone being straight doesn't even make people raise a brow because apparetly that's the natural order of things. Everyone is straight until proven otherwise. That's not how real life works.

And, a disclaimer or several; I'm not into "yaoi". I'm not a girl. I do a lot of things for my own self-satisfaction, but having gut feelings about characters isn't one of them. This isn't about Apollo. I won't even mention what orientation I think he has. I'm just tired of the fact that it has to become one whole rigmarole as soon as someone thinks someone is queer.)
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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I started a fuss stressing the fact that it's my gut feeling because that's kind of what pretty much all of this thread comes down to. However I thought it was worth pointing out that there are in fact lines of dialogue that could support my claim because basically all hints of attraction/sexuality in this game, pointing to one conclusion or another, are so vague that the ones you see are mostly the ones supporting your own view. I just don't want people to think that I'm yaoi-ifying AA-characters and think of them in the shower or anything. :meekins:

Anyway, I think there's one thing we can all agree on, and that is that Juniper sure seems to be POLLYAMOROUS. Aha! aha! aha! Image
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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Why the word yaoi anyway? (Not as a reply to you, Miles.) Fetishizing gay men... Hell yeah. Lovely. :sadshoe: Straight is straight. Gay is yaoi (when it comes to men). As a word for either ridicule or fetishishsishshizing (not only did I buy a riding crop yesterday, I also bought wine, and apparently one little glass screwed up my sense of wording).

Also; quit it, Miles. People will wonder why Juniper would be polyamorous and say "it's spelled POLYAMOROUS". I NEED CANON PROOF!
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Last edited by WaitingforGodot on Tue May 05, 2015 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WaitingforGodot wrote:
One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is gay.
One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is straight.
Why is that even worth debating?


To be fair, a good chunk of this thread appears to be based on gut feelings ("list format" replies with little to no explanation or evidence).

Though I understand some of the replies are meant as jokes as well.
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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Adrian in black wrote:
WaitingforGodot wrote:
One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is gay.
One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is straight.
Why is that even worth debating?


To be fair, a good chunk of this thread appears to be based on gut feelings ("list format" replies with little to no explanation or evidence).

Though I understand some of the replies are meant as jokes as well.


My point exactly! It's based on gut feelings, why bashing one another's gut feelings and crave "evidence"?

Yes, that's true!
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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WaitingforGodot wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
WaitingforGodot wrote:
One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is gay.
One person's gut feeling is that Apollo is straight.
Why is that even worth debating?


To be fair, a good chunk of this thread appears to be based on gut feelings ("list format" replies with little to no explanation or evidence).

Though I understand some of the replies are meant as jokes as well.


My point exactly! It's based on gut feelings, why bashing one another's gut feelings and crave "evidence"?

Yes, that's true!


I guess that's the problem with threads like these, where "debate rules" (or lack of) aren't clearly established.

You're right though, no point in jumping all over a gut feeling. Circumstantial evidence and hints you can work with. Someone's gut feeling, you just kind of have to shrug and move on.
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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Spot on.
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Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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Hm. I, myself, think it feels a little bit forced, to make characters like Phoenix or Apollo homosexual... or like I saw earlier, almost half of the cast =.=' (even the ones that had confirmed heterosexual relationships!)
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Nearavex wrote:
Hm. I, myself, think it feels a little bit forced, to make characters like Phoenix or Apollo homosexual... or like I saw earlier, almost half of the cast =.=' (even the ones that had confirmed heterosexual relationships!)


If there are no canon evidence it's just as forced as making him (Apollo, because Phoenix is clearly attracted to women) heterosexual. But I don't feel like discussing this and tossing points and get points tossed at me because Miles and that other person who's name I forgot already did that. Shalom. Bye.
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I need to stop getting into these arguments, but I still don't get why this is such a contentious topic. If you are straight: 98% of media representation is already yours. You can turn on the TV, open a book, play any games you want, and you are almost guaranteed to find someone like you. Gay and bisexual people do not have that, and so, a lot of the time, people will project their own sexualities onto characters they relate to.

So what if someone thinks Apollo is gay? So what if someone thinks Phoenix is closeted/bisexual? How does that affect your life, or your enjoyment of the games? If the insinuation that a character you like may not be straight, especially if that insinuation is only the headcanon of someone on the internet, offends you... that says more about your over-investment and insecurities than it does theirs, I think.

There are actual gay people in the world that identify with characters that aren't skinny, camp gay boys. Sexuality headcanons are not intrinsically out of character, because personality and sexual preference have nothing to do with eachother. Sexuality headcanons serve more of a purpose than fetishistic straight women wanting to think about two hot men, or skeevy straight men wanting to think about two hot women. Gay and bisexual people exist, and they aren't all obvious stereotypes.

Ace Attorney isn't even highly romance-focused to begin with; the only living, canon couple is the DeLites. Almost everything else is extrapolation. Let it go. It doesn't affect you, and it helps some people feel better about themselves. Let it go.
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Coyote wrote:
the only living, canon couple is the DeLites.

Though I agree with the rest of your post, Winfred and Plum Kitaki are still alive, you know.
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Coyote wrote:
I need to stop getting into these arguments, but I still don't get why this is such a contentious topic. If you are straight: 98% of media representation is already yours. You can turn on the TV, open a book, play any games you want, and you are almost guaranteed to find someone like you. Gay and bisexual people do not have that, and so, a lot of the time, people will project their own sexualities onto characters they relate to.

So what if someone thinks Apollo is gay? So what if someone thinks Phoenix is closeted/bisexual? How does that affect your life, or your enjoyment of the games? If the insinuation that a character you like may not be straight, especially if that insinuation is only the headcanon of someone on the internet, offends you... that says more about your over-investment and insecurities than it does theirs, I think.

There are actual gay people in the world that identify with characters that aren't skinny, camp gay boys. Sexuality headcanons are not intrinsically out of character, because personality and sexual preference have nothing to do with eachother. Sexuality headcanons serve more of a purpose than fetishistic straight women wanting to think about two hot men, or skeevy straight men wanting to think about two hot women. Gay and bisexual people exist, and they aren't all obvious stereotypes.

Ace Attorney isn't even highly romance-focused to begin with; the only living, canon couple is the DeLites. Almost everything else is extrapolation. Let it go. It doesn't affect you, and it helps some people feel better about themselves. Let it go.


I feel you, Coyote, I feel you. I've made those points several times and so have you... And still we continue to go into those arguments.
It's like, I can't resist it. It ticks me off so bad I just can't let it go if I see something like that.
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry for writing a lengthy post. So very sorry. Actually, you got back three sentences for your two, that is the first part, the rest of it was just me drifting away in my own thoughts about the matter. And I can assure you I'm not a yaoi fangirl, nor do I want Apollo to be gay for my own pleasure, I just really think he is.


I didn't mean to offend. I was stating were my frustrations stemmed from. That part about the Yaoi fangirls really had nothing to do with you. I just can't stand them that's all. And trust me they're there...They're always there... :larry:
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Ucha! I can imagine. :larry:

Nearavex! This whole thread is based on intuition and probably, in some cases, prejudice. No one is "making" anyone anything.

Coyote! I love you and worship you. :pearl-blush:
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Ucha! I can imagine. :larry:

Nearavex! This whole thread is based on intuition and probably, in some cases, prejudice. No one is "making" anyone anything.

Coyote! I love you and worship you. :pearl-blush:


...I was about to tell Coyote that I liked him but I was afraid that was going to come off as odd - now I can safely say that I should have said it. At least I didn't talk about worshipping. :redd:
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WaitingforGodot wrote:
If there are no canon evidence it's just as forced as making him (Apollo, because Phoenix is clearly attracted to women) heterosexual. But I don't feel like discussing this and tossing points and get points tossed at me because Miles and that other person who's name I forgot already did that. Shalom. Bye.

Why do you react this way to the way I feel about these headcanons? I just don't like them and that's all, I don't see why you should react so defensively. :ron:

GoingforMiles wrote:
Nearavex! This whole thread is based on intuition and probably, in some cases, prejudice. No one is "making" anyone anything.

Which is exactly the reason why I find it so surprising that there's such a reaction to how I feel about that...


Last edited by Nearavex on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Nearavex wrote:
WaitingforGodot wrote:
If there are no canon evidence it's just as forced as making him (Apollo, because Phoenix is clearly attracted to women) heterosexual. But I don't feel like discussing this and tossing points and get points tossed at me because Miles and that other person who's name I forgot already did that. Shalom. Bye.

Why do you react this way to the way I feel about these headcanons? I just don't like them and that's all, I don't see why you should react so defensively. :ron:


No, you misunderstood. The "feeling forced"-thingie was directed at you. The rest was mostly me being weary of the climate of this thread when those people started throwing points going nowhere. (Or something of the sorts.)
I have no problem with you whatsoever disliking those kinds of headcanons, I just thought "feeling forced" sounded... Eh, I already explained. I didn't actually think you would start a fuss and say you needed canon evidence (but since some discussions already esclated I kinda sorta safeguarded so to speak) and I'm sorry for sounding defensive and rude. I was tired (literally and figuratively). So; pardon.
My point was just: Apollo is, for now, neither canon gay, bi, straight or anything. So everything would be "making him" things if they had a headcansofdsnfdgdsfasd.
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Last edited by WaitingforGodot on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WaitingforGodot If I'm odd for expressing my Affection! *desk slam* and admiration for the eloquence of people I don't know - the hell I'll be odd. No harm in that. :jake:

Nearavex I think the reaction wasn't as much about your opinion as how you expressed it. Then again, I think that's the reason why 90% of all discussions get screwed up or even happen in the first place. :pearl:
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Last edited by Going for Miles on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GoingforMiles wrote:
If I'm odd for expressing my Affection! *desk slam* and admiration for the eloquence of people I don't know - the hell I'll be odd. No harm in that. :jake:


Alright alright alright alright, you're damn right about that. I probably shouldn't worry about seeming odd anyway, judging by the posts I've made on this forum... Eheh.
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Coyote wrote:
I need to stop getting into these arguments, but I still don't get why this is such a contentious topic. If you are straight: 98% of media representation is already yours. You can turn on the TV, open a book, play any games you want, and you are almost guaranteed to find someone like you. Gay and bisexual people do not have that, and so, a lot of the time, people will project their own sexualities onto characters they relate to.

So what if someone thinks Apollo is gay? So what if someone thinks Phoenix is closeted/bisexual? How does that affect your life, or your enjoyment of the games? If the insinuation that a character you like may not be straight, especially if that insinuation is only the headcanon of someone on the internet, offends you... that says more about your over-investment and insecurities than it does theirs, I think.

There are actual gay people in the world that identify with characters that aren't skinny, camp gay boys. Sexuality headcanons are not intrinsically out of character, because personality and sexual preference have nothing to do with eachother. Sexuality headcanons serve more of a purpose than fetishistic straight women wanting to think about two hot men, or skeevy straight men wanting to think about two hot women. Gay and bisexual people exist, and they aren't all obvious stereotypes.

Ace Attorney isn't even highly romance-focused to begin with; the only living, canon couple is the DeLites. Almost everything else is extrapolation. Let it go. It doesn't affect you, and it helps some people feel better about themselves. Let it go.


I just agree with this. I don't think Edgeworth is gay but if people headcanon that? So what? As long as they don't force it down your throats. I ship Apollo and Klavier together. I'm not going to hate people who don't like that pairing. And you shouldn't hate on me either.

And yeah, personality and sexual preference have nothing to do with each other. I don't like using Seth MacFarlane as an example because some of his work is pointlessly offensive. However, he identifies himself as straight and loves musicals. And loving musicals is associated with a gay stereotype.

Can't we just get along with each other and not rain on people's parades?

btw, er....I have straight privilege and if I am speaking over or for LGBT people, please let me know because I don't want to do that.
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Oh my dearest dear, looking at this thread from the outside it has become such hits-and-misses in every direction it wasn't even fun anymore but now it's almost getting fun again because of it. And this entire charade has its origins in a stupid post (made by me nonetheless) about Ron and Dessie being swingers. And my bad yet wonderful pun about Juniper eing pollyamorous nearly got wasted between it all. :cards:
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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[Whip the cream!]

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GoingforMiles wrote:
Oh my dearest dear, looking at this thread from the outside it has become such hits-and-misses in every direction it wasn't even fun anymore but now it's almost getting fun again because of it. And this entire charade has its origins in a stupid post (made by me nonetheless) about Ron and Dessie being swingers. And my bad yet wonderful pun about Juniper eing pollyamorous nearly got wasted between it all. :cards:


Oh, Max, I fully agree with you! Since I share the headcanon about them being swingers I'm... rather glad it wasn't me who started this whole rigmarole... Oh! Hoh! Ho!

And, a shame, such a grand shame, because it was a delightfully bad pun!


Double-also:
Emmy19 wrote:
btw, er....I have straight privilege and if I am speaking over or for LGBT people, please let me know because I don't want to do that.


I actually find it grand that you realize that you have privilege and that you write that. Not everyone even grasp their privilege and whatnot.
Gimme a "P"! Gimme an "I"! Give me a "P" and an "E"! What's that spell?! Pipe!


Last edited by WaitingforGodot on Tue May 05, 2015 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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Wassup, witchy baby!

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And now for something completely different... Tyrell Badd! My guess for Badd is that he once had a sexual orientation, but during the years his disinterest for sex and romance has set so deeply within him that now even he himself has forgotten what it was.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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[Whip the cream!]

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GoingforMiles wrote:
And now for something completely different... Tyrell Badd! My guess for Badd is that he once had a sexual orientation, but during the years his disinterest for sex and romance has set so deeply within him that now even he himself has forgotten what it was.


This is absolutely perfect! I was going for asexual, but this is even better.
Gimme a "P"! Gimme an "I"! Give me a "P" and an "E"! What's that spell?! Pipe!
Re: The PW Sexuality ThreadTopic%20Title
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Y'know

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This whole thread is really just something weird... I mean regardless of whether they are straight or gay, making up character's sexual preference feels just awkward when talking about Ace Attorney which was really never about that. xD
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I guess that's somehow what makes speculating in it fun, but yup, sure is. :klavier: And on that note, I'm really glad that romance and stuff is pretty non-present in AA (canonically, i.e excluding all the fanfiction and shippings and well... this thread). It's so up-played in almost every other bit of media, so it feels nice to get off it once in a while.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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GoingforMiles wrote:
And now for something completely different... Tyrell Badd! My guess for Badd is that he once had a sexual orientation, but during the years his disinterest for sex and romance has set so deeply within him that now even he himself has forgotten what it was.


Bulletsexual?

Mirrorsexual?

...Lollysexual?
"Descole? You don't mean Mr. I-Like-to-Wreck-Things-with-Mechanical-Monsters-and-Dress-Up-as-Posh-Ladies Descole?" -Emmy Altava

Image
...NAILED IT
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Y'know

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Lolisexual!

...Byrne wouldn't approve.
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Oooh no! Not cool! :redd:
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I’ve been replaying the original trilogy and AJ, maybe for the fifth time, so let me update my list:

1. I think :apollo:, :eh?:, :lana:, :doodle:, :trucy:, :franny: and maybe :ron: are one of those “I like the person, not the gender” kinds of people. Meaning, I could see them with both genders, if the person has specific features/a personality that attracts them.

2. I think :javado:, :maya:, :larry:, :mia:, :april:, :ema:, :mike-salute:, :desiree: :iris:, :terry:, :gipsy: and :karate: are exclusively straight. I may be forgetting someone.

I think :phoenix: is bi with a preference for women, but I could see him with Edgeworth.
I think :edgeworth: is somewhere on the asexual spectrum, but I could see him romantically into Phoenix.

I think :kristoph: is mostly asexual. Just a feeling.
I think :wellington: is gay.
:karma: is 100% aromantic and will only have sex to procreate his perfect children.
I have a feeling :klavier-pull: isn’t straight, but isn’t gay, either. So probably somewhere on the bi spectrum?
I think :adrian: is bi with a preference for women... I could see her as lesbian too, but I think I see her as bi because it is easy for me to pic her in a romantic relationship with some males from the series.
I think :lunches: is bi with a preference for dudes.

I have no idea about the rest of the characters. I may be forgetting someone, but the rest is probably mostly straight.

Damn, speculating the sexuality of fictional characters is fun.
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