Board index » Phoenix Wright » Prosecutor's Lobby » Gourdzilla's Lair (GK2)

Page 1 of 3[ 94 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 


Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

Now that the beta is released, you can discuss up to Case 5 in this thread. What did you think of it?
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

A Seeker of Truth

Gender: Male

Location: Canada

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:04 pm

Posts: 328

This case honestly just blew me away, really.

-It featured pretty much every major character from the game, introduced a couple of new ones brought them together in a meaningful and believable way.
-I also appreciated how they went on to develop some of the characters even further, with Sebastian's in particular really striking a chord with me (I'll admit a shed a few tears when dealing with him during his breakdown).
-It wrapped up the over-arching storyline and loose ends quite nicely (there was actually a REASON this time around why all these murders were happening one day after the other, and that 2 of them were of major characters).
-Finally, this case had an AWESOME final villain; I mean Simon Keyes was likable enough in case 2, but when he turned out to be the mastermind behind everything, even though I felt like he stabbed me in the heart with his betrayal, he just became that much cooler as a character with all that added depth.

Long story short, my favorite case in the game by far :trucy:
"No one can change the past. The only thing we can do is strive to make up for our mistakes. Why must we make up for our mistakes, you ask? Because in so doing... we can find the way back to our path. And once we've found our path, we can move on from our past mistakes toward a brighter future."- Phoenix Wright
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7724

Gentlemangamer wrote:
-Finally, this case had an AWESOME final villain; I mean Simon Keyes was likable enough in case 2, but when he turned out to be the mastermind behind everything, even though I felt like he stabbed me in the heart with his betrayal, he just became that much cooler as a character with all that added depth


Agreed; such a great twist. Also, even when the initial surprise had run out, he wasn't just a bitch in sheep's clothing but also a very interesting character in his own right.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:59 am

Posts: 4

Case 5 is a awesome wrapped up for the whole game, I really feel sorry for Simon Keyes, to me he is not a completely villain , he is just a guy want to accomplish something for his vengeance but in a very bad way, no one is a born villain, he had a terrible childhood, things went wrong, then he become the guy he don't want to be. and i love his villain music theme!

Another character i want to mention is Yumihiko Ichiyanagi(Not sure his transition name, i mean the villain prosecutor's son in the blue school uniform), i had a really strong feeling while Miles Edgeworth had a logic chess with him in Case 4, the motivation that Miles Edgeworth gives him is so great, and so relatable!(To me) Coz we all have stumble moments in our live, those speech Miles Edgeworth gave him is so inspirational.

And i glad to see how they develop Miles Edgeworth's Character in this game, you can actually see Miles Edgeworth is growing, from Ace Attorney 1 to Now. And this episode also mention that Phoenix Wright :phoenix: is a big influence to Miles Edgeworth, so glad to see how Edgeworth :edgeworth: grown as a prosecutor, the way that he try to find the path of his job and life.

I am so glad i played to game, i enjoy this game very much.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

-The victim of the case starts off as one of the more intriguing ones. Immediately, I wanted to know why he was killed. I think the game delivered on that front. It was such an amazing twist that it was the body double the entire time. I actually felt pretty bad for the real Ou. He was a good guy

-I'm shocked nobody has mentioned this yet. Shi. Long. Lang. This is by far his best case and I think it cements him as one of the best characters in the entire series. One of my disappointments with AAI2 was the lack of Lang (I thought his cameo in Case 2 was ok but I wanted more). Bringing him back in Case 5 (where he has a very strong reason to want to find the murderer) was a brilliant move and his relationship with Edgeworth developed nicely. His suspicions were also not unreasonable like usual and he put a pretty good fight. You couldn't help but see his side. We know Mikagami and Aizawa can't be the murderers because it's AA, but I really couldn't think of another explanation for Ou not leaving the tower by the elevator. Shi-Long Lang was amazing in this case and I squeaked like a little girl when I saw him. It was also nice to get some backstory about the Fall of the House of Lang and the after credits scene with him makes me feel like he might come back if there's ever an AAI3, but I'd be fine if they left things as is

-Yumihiko was an amazing character. He felt believable, he was hilarious, and a clever parody of the "perfect" Prosecutor. However, he ended up becoming a three-dimensional character and I like that Edgeworth allowed him to choose his own path at the end. He was definitely one of my favorite characters and I hope he returns. I wish he was in the final case more (but at the same time, I don't, because pretty much everybody was there at the end and barely anyone got lines besides Edgeworth and the Mastermind)

-Shimon was another great character and one of the more underrated characters in the series. He was pretty likable, despite his personality, and he was a bit tragic. I thought the last moment with him choosing not to kill Houinbou was really well done

-The setup for this case was really intriguing. I think the mystery element is at its peak for the series here with all of the different clues like the footprints, the President being crushed, the President not taking the elevator, Kay not taking the elevator, the eyeball outside of the window, etc. I had no clue what was going on but it was tied together really well in the end (it was also a nice touch how Lotta witnessed a monster again). The only part of the case that seemed really unnecessary was Penny thinking she saw Gourdy

-Besides the DLC for Dual Destinies, I think this is the only case that ends with a relatively happy ending for everyone. Sota got the revenge against the people who hurt him and now he gets to spend the rest of his days in prison with the man he worships. Speaking of...

-Sota is one of the best villains in the series. He was absolutely despicable but also immensely sympathetic. I also think he has the best motive in the entire series and I could see where he was coming from in his decisions. I did actually feel like he had no way out but to fight back. I also liked how his distrust of the system ultimately helped Edgeworth in making his decision

-Edgeworth's final decision was perfect and I think it does show considerable growth with his character

I do have some minor nitpicks with the case and I might mention them later but I think overall this was a 10/10 case
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Location: Dominican Republic

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:06 pm

Posts: 692

I loved this case! The story was amazing,the characters were great,Souta is probably the most surprising villain of the series and the only one with a tragic backstory that makes him the most sympathetic villain of the series,Edgeworth got great character development and it's probably the most mysterious case so far.

Needless to say,this is my favorite case in the series,and one of the reasons I think GK2 is even better than the games of the original trilogy.
Signature loading, please wait...
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:59 am

Posts: 4

Just want to share a great fan art!

Image
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6930

Eh, the more time passes, the less I like this case. GK2's story and characters are amazing, don't get me wrong, but Case 5 itself, was... a lot less awesome than the initial impact leads you to believe, I think. The biggest sticking point for me is that so much of the case hinges on crazy coincidences, and the crime on things Souta couldn't possibly have known/predicted. (For example--the security camera capturing Ou's corpse floating in the air at the perfect angle to make it look like it was going upstairs at the perfect moment to coincidence with the Shimon-killer theory.) Most/all mysteries, especially AA, depend on that, but this case did it in a way and to an extent that I just don't really like.

JesusMonroe wrote:
-The victim of the case starts off as one of the more intriguing ones. Immediately, I wanted to know why he was killed. I think the game delivered on that front.

Really? I think the "how" is a lot more compelling than the "why" in this case, cuz of GOURDZILLAAAAAAAA

Quote:
It was such an amazing twist that it was the body double the entire time.

I don't think it's a bad twist per se, but... I didn't really like the execution. Who the heck was this body double? Ou was the president of a country--how the heck was this guy able to fool THE WORLD? (After all, he'd need to fool both his country and other international leaders/ambassadors/whatever.) I really wish they had gone into more depth about this than "lolbodydouble"

Quote:
-I'm shocked nobody has mentioned this yet. Shi. Long. Lang.

yes. Awesome speech style, great voice clip, and sexiest cleavage in the franchise. Yes pls. :hotti:
...Personality? Character development? What are those?

(But actually, I really like how they went into detail about the house of Lang; I think this is the first time a character has ever gotten that much fleshing out outside their debut game. And he didn't even have a role in Case 2, that was only so that Case 5 wouldn't be the first time he appeared in the game--notice how the only new character was Shimon?)

Quote:
-Yumihiko was an amazing character.

Yeah, Yumihiko was a smartly done subversion and deconstruction of the "genius lawyer" trope the franchise has relied upon for so long. (And the expert handling of the trope in this game is what made the utterly incompetent use of it for Athena so disappointing for me...)

Quote:
I thought the last moment with him choosing not to kill Houinbou was really well done

I personally thought that scene was really silly. Not one, but two wanted assassins (one of whom is blind and somehow escaped from jail) pop out of nowhere, in front of several police officers? uh...

Quote:
-The setup for this case was really intriguing. I think the mystery element is at its peak for the series here

eh... I already talked about this at the beginning of my post
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

Deception&&contradiction

Gender: None specified

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:32 pm

Posts: 161

Bad Player wrote:
Eh, the more time passes, the less I like this case. GK2's story and characters are amazing, don't get me wrong, but Case 5 itself, was... a lot less awesome than the initial impact leads you to believe, I think. The biggest sticking point for me is that so much of the case hinges on crazy coincidences, and the crime on things Souta couldn't possibly have known/predicted. (For example--the security camera capturing Ou's corpse floating in the air at the perfect angle to make it look like it was going upstairs at the perfect moment to coincidence with the Shimon-killer theory.) Most/all mysteries, especially AA, depend on that, but this case did it in a way and to an extent that I just don't really like.


Yeah this kinda did'nt feel like a case per say but more of a clean-up of all the loose ends left and the continuation of the story. I am GLAD that an Ace Attorney game did bother to this in a way that I'd say covers up all of the loose ends more or less. But now I get why a lotta people said Case 4 felt more like the Final one than this. Plus, Bansai is more of the aristocratic final villain we usually get..which makes Souta..a bit more different and unique I feel. And I agree with what you said..as I found out more and more...I was like seriously? Souta not manage to manipulate people but seems like even Fate itself. I think the hardest thing to swallow was that Case 4 and Case 5's murder was happening simultaneously and he got away with that with nobody even having a remote sense of alertedness or suspicion..


Quote:
I don't think it's a bad twist per se, but... I didn't really like the execution. Who the heck was this body double? Ou was the president of a country--how the heck was this guy able to fool THE WORLD? (After all, he'd need to fool both his country and other international leaders/ambassadors/whatever.) I really wish they had gone into more depth about this than "lolbodydouble"


They do go into a bit of his motivations and thoughts in-game..he was the official body double of the president but he was sick of serving him and being looked at as the "President" but not the actual one. So he wanted to be the real one.

.......Kinda reminds me of Metal Sonic and other clone tropes..(Kingdom Hearts)
Still much better handled than Shih-na..we got jack about her..

Quote:
-Yumihiko was an amazing character.
Yeah, Yumihiko was a smartly done subversion and deconstruction of the "genius lawyer" trope the franchise has relied upon for so long. (And the expert handling of the trope in this game is what made the utterly incompetent use of it for Athena so disappointing for me...)


Yeah I thought he'd be the genius character who'd reveal flaws later on..(Like Franziska?) :franny:
But they actually made him rather unaware from the start which was a clever subversion I never expected in this series.
And the way made him significant was rather inspired especially using the Logic Chess sequence to actually build him up instead of taking em' apart as usual. His arc is my favourite part of the case...

The part about the SS-5 incident was kinda boring to me and a bit frustrating cos' I missed like one detail at times..but it picked up in the end. :yogi:

Quote:
I personally thought that scene was really silly. Not one, but two wanted assassins (one of whom is blind and somehow escaped from jail) pop out of nowhere, in front of several police officers? uh...


When I played the Jap version, this kinda occured to me..(mainly cos' of how Shelly kept popping in sometimes in the game physically, bar the first case) Like I focused on Shelly and was like he got in again? Really? To me it seemed, Ryoken was somehow able to come and go in wherever he please...

This completely skipped my mind in the translated version tho', guess I was too fixated on the current scene,, :will:

All in all, A great case..but my love for Reminiscing cases keeps Case 3 up top followed by case 4 at close second.
Again, this indeed feel like a consistent plot thread as a case more like an Anime episode that pushes the story.
Eh, it is Ace Attorney Investigations and not a main title so I guess it can get away with it...
Having a huge cast gathering on the scene running along place to place, does keep the blood pumping tho' :edgey:
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

Bad Player wrote:
Eh, the more time passes, the less I like this case. GK2's story and characters are amazing, don't get me wrong, but Case 5 itself, was... a lot less awesome than the initial impact leads you to believe, I think. The biggest sticking point for me is that so much of the case hinges on crazy coincidences, and the crime on things Souta couldn't possibly have known/predicted. (For example--the security camera capturing Ou's corpse floating in the air at the perfect angle to make it look like it was going upstairs at the perfect moment to coincidence with the Shimon-killer theory.) Most/all mysteries, especially AA, depend on that, but this case did it in a way and to an extent that I just don't really like.

It might've been intentional that it was coincidental. I mean, he's the Mastermind, and in the end, the conclusion to his plan succeeded by a twist of fate, and he was brought down for the same reasons. I get your point and I'm probably reading too much into it, but I'd be more bothered if every part of his plan succeeded and he didn't have to rely on coincidence and improvising

The film is probably something that could've been done better in a rewrite. Like, have some spilled paint or something and Ou's footprints are in it as a result of being dropped from the balloon and the video shows when the footprints were left (though that might've been redundant since a lot of SS-5 hinged on footprints). Or say the camera was running low on battery and began to only film frames by the end (getting the picture of Ou). I don't know. Just something that "proves" Ou was there at the time

Quote:
Really? I think the "how" is a lot more compelling than the "why" in this case, cuz of GOURDZILLAAAAAAAA

They were all equally interesting for me. 1-4/GK2-5 are the only cases where the who, how, and why are all at max level for interesting. 4-4 is a close third place

Quote:
I don't think it's a bad twist per se, but... I didn't really like the execution. Who the heck was this body double? Ou was the president of a country--how the heck was this guy able to fool THE WORLD? (After all, he'd need to fool both his country and other international leaders/ambassadors/whatever.) I really wish they had gone into more depth about this than "lolbodydouble"

He didn't fool the world. Dai-Long Lang knew. Plus, he fired everyone after SS-5 and began hiring private security. As for the ambassadors, he probably started making shady deals with people like Quercus. That's my headcanon at least. I wouldn't be surprised if "Ou" was well aware of the smuggling ring and helped run it from Zheng Fa

As for his motivations, I think the parallel to Naito that Edgeworth mentioned was enough
Quote:
I personally thought that scene was really silly. Not one, but two wanted assassins (one of whom is blind and somehow escaped from jail) pop out of nowhere, in front of several police officers? uh...

I thought the "duel" was silly but kind of worth it for the end. One thing I wish this case went deeper into was why De Killer wanted to kill Souta. They kind of explain that Souta "lied" about the body double being the target but I don't see how that's a big deal. I mean, I guess it means that De Killer was underestimating how dangerous his target was, but does it make a difference whether he's killing a President or a killer President? I don't know. It just doesn't seem as big of a breach of trust as the one Engarde committed. I mean, with Engarde, he knew he was fucking over De Killer

Mechashadow wrote:
Yeah this kinda did'nt feel like a case per say but more of a clean-up of all the loose ends left and the continuation of the story. I am GLAD that an Ace Attorney game did bother to this in a way that I'd say covers up all of the loose ends more or less. But now I get why a lotta people said Case 4 felt more like the Final one than this. Plus, Bansai is more of the aristocratic final villain we usually get..which makes Souta..a bit more different and unique I feel.

Bansai is a good Case 4 villain, which makes me appreciate Souta all the more. I wouldn't have liked it if we just had another untouchable man as the final boss in an AA game
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6930

JesusMonroe wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Eh, the more time passes, the less I like this case. GK2's story and characters are amazing, don't get me wrong, but Case 5 itself, was... a lot less awesome than the initial impact leads you to believe, I think. The biggest sticking point for me is that so much of the case hinges on crazy coincidences, and the crime on things Souta couldn't possibly have known/predicted. (For example--the security camera capturing Ou's corpse floating in the air at the perfect angle to make it look like it was going upstairs at the perfect moment to coincidence with the Shimon-killer theory.) Most/all mysteries, especially AA, depend on that, but this case did it in a way and to an extent that I just don't really like.

It might've been intentional that it was coincidental. I mean, he's the Mastermind, and in the end, the conclusion to his plan succeeded by a twist of fate, and he was brought down for the same reasons. I get your point and I'm probably reading too much into it, but I'd be more bothered if every part of his plan succeeded and he didn't have to rely on coincidence and improvising

It's one thing to have sort of plan, do things that are reasonable even without omniscience, and have some coincidences line up in your favor, it's another to run around doing really silly things (like flying your hot air balloon around a city with a corpse dangling from it in plain view for everyone to see) and have a metric ton of insane coincidences there's no way he could've ever known about or predicted work out perfectly in his favor.

I guess the way I feel is that while Souta certainly did do the planning for the previous 4 murders in the game, for "Ou's" murder, Souta did nothing more than drop the hot air balloon on him and dump the body a day later, and the universe itself bent over backwards to turn it into an actual mystery/murder plot, without Souta lifting a finger.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

Bad Player wrote:
It's one thing to have sort of plan, do things that are reasonable even without omniscience, and have some coincidences line up in your favor, it's another to run around doing really silly things (like flying your hot air balloon around a city with a corpse dangling from it in plain view for everyone to see) and have a metric ton of insane coincidences there's no way he could've ever known about or predicted work out perfectly in his favor.

I guess the way I feel is that while Souta certainly did do the planning for the previous 4 murders in the game, for "Ou's" murder, Souta did nothing more than drop the hot air balloon on him and dump the body a day later, and the universe itself bent over backwards to turn it into an actual mystery/murder plot, without Souta lifting a finger.

Souta didn't dangle "Ou" until he found the film studio with the Moozilla head

I get your point. However, think about the mystery if Souta simply dropped the hot air balloon on him and then dumped the body a day later. We'd still have the photo of the balloon eye, the recording of the fire, and the picture of Mikagami on the roof and being the only one to leave. We just wouldn't have the footprints. I think the only parts where the super coincidences line up is the fact that the person at the film studio is the boy who is Ou's son who's mother happened to meet him on the roof days ago, but that's kind of the standard for the series for everybody in the game to be involved in the last case

I understand that it would be better if Souta actually masterminded the plot to make it look like Moozilla was the killer, but there'd really be no benefit to it. Von Karma masterminded the murder of Robert Hammond, but even he and Souta got the picture taken by Lotta in the end. I guess it didn't bother me because I kind of had a feeling that the culprit wasn't planning on making the monster involved and it was just Lotta mis-seeing things again

Though, you made me realize, why didn't Bansai notice "Ou" was dead? He was there
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6930

JesusMonroe wrote:
I get your point. However, think about the mystery if Souta simply dropped the hot air balloon on him and then dumped the body a day later. We'd still have the photo of the balloon eye, the recording of the fire, and the picture of Mikagami on the roof and being the only one to leave.

But those things are still all coincidences that Souta couldn't have known about or been counting on beforehand.

If you look only at what Souta knew about and planned/accounted for, there's... nothing beyond the murder itself and dumping the body the next day. And was this murder even premeditated? (I don't remember it exactly, but I feel like Souta just happened to spot Ou and decide to kill him...? Would it have been possible to know about his meeting with Mikagami beforehand?)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

Bad Player wrote:
But those things are still all coincidences that Souta couldn't have known about or been counting on beforehand.

If you look only at what Souta knew about and planned/accounted for, there's... nothing beyond the murder itself and dumping the body the next day. And was this murder even premeditated? (I don't remember it exactly, but I feel like Souta just happened to spot Ou and decide to kill him...? Would it have been possible to know about his meeting with Mikagami beforehand?)

Yes, but a lot of the murders in the series rely on some amount of coincidences for them to work (like Lotta's photo in 1-4). True, this one had quite a few, but I think they all worked towards the mystery's benefit and didn't detract from the case and none were too far-fetched, besides one

And the murder wasn't premeditated. He had gone to the rooftop to drop off Kay and then Ou decided to kill him because he would be a witness to Mikagami's murder
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6930

JesusMonroe wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
But those things are still all coincidences that Souta couldn't have known about or been counting on beforehand.

If you look only at what Souta knew about and planned/accounted for, there's... nothing beyond the murder itself and dumping the body the next day. And was this murder even premeditated? (I don't remember it exactly, but I feel like Souta just happened to spot Ou and decide to kill him...? Would it have been possible to know about his meeting with Mikagami beforehand?)

Yes, but a lot of the murders in the series rely on some amount of coincidences for them to work (like Lotta's photo in 1-4). True, this one had quite a few, but I think they all worked towards the mystery's benefit and didn't detract from the case and none were too far-fetched, besides one

And the murder wasn't premeditated. He had gone to the rooftop to drop off Kay and then Ou decided to kill him because he would be a witness to Mikagami's murder

Yeah, I know that a lot of the murders in the series rely on coincidence, but this case has an absurd number of them (all the ones you listed in your previous post weren't even half of them), and it's done in a way that I just don't like (ie the murderer does literally nothing beyond the actual murder, and the universe twists itself to create an insane murder plot). Lotta and Larry in 1-4 were coincidences, yes (and Lotta wasn't really that coincidental, since the whole reason Yogi shot twice was to create witnesses (although I guess you could say it was a coincidence that the witness that was created had a camera set up)), but everything else was planned by Manfred/Yogi.
(And on top of that, in 1-4, the coincidences really don't add to the mystery at all, but instead merely provide the clues necessary to solve it, whereas in I2-5, it's the coincidences and really the coincidences alone that create the mystery.)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Y'know

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:51 pm

Posts: 787

Bad Player wrote:
And he didn't even have a role in Case 2, that was only so that Case 5 wouldn't be the first time he appeared in the game--notice how the only new character was Shimon?

Shimon made a cameo in Case 3, so there were literally no new characters in Case 5.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

Gender: Male

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:48 pm

Posts: 48

Nearavex wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
And he didn't even have a role in Case 2, that was only so that Case 5 wouldn't be the first time he appeared in the game--notice how the only new character was Shimon?

Shimon made a cameo in Case 3, so there were literally no new characters in Case 5.

And he also showed up in Case 4.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7724

When was that?
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6930

At one point when you're going into Big Tower they're doing a scene where Big Tower is falling, and Gumshoe thinks it's actually happen; Shimon and Penny show up.

I think it's the first time you go to Big Tower, but I don't remember 100%.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7724

Oh yeah, that's right. I remembered that as being in case 5.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

So I'm just gonna dump my thoughts on the case so far into this topic. I just saved at the Beginning Part 2's final section, and man, people weren't kidding when they told me to stay put until I got to this case. A lot is going on and I find it all to be very interesting, so I can definitely say I'm hooked.

And just as BP and others told me, Justine definitely grows into her own unique and memorable character once she reveals her true motives, and Sebastian too. Looking back at what I had as pre-conceptions for the game I think it's kind of neat to think how much it has grown on me already. Definitely better than AAI and Dual Destinies (although the humor could be better :P (I blame the fan-translation, no offense!))

But I had to wonder and I don't know if this idea will be contradicted in the game at some point... but after dealing with Sebastian and there's a pretty great moment when Edgeworth passes his experiences onto him, and I thought it was an amazing reflection of everything Edgeworth himself had went through in this game, and it really reminds you of what kind of growth he's had to his character over the entire series. But the thing is, that the scene made me think that, with Edgeworth becoming Chief Prosecutor in DD and considering his exchange with Debeste in AAI2-5 I couldn't help but think of how cool it could've been if we suddently got Sebastion as a new main rival for Apollo Justice in AA6 where Edgeworth is Debeste's Mentor (considering Blaise Debeste was also chief prosecutor). Dunno, it could just be kind of cool to see what kind of growth Sebastian would've gotten after 8 years.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7724

I'd like to see him again as well, and in that case they'd kind of have to release GK2 in the west in some form or else we'd fall behind. Ho hum.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6930

linkenski wrote:
But the thing is, that the scene made me think that, with Edgeworth becoming Chief Prosecutor in DD and considering his exchange with Debeste in AAI2-5 I couldn't help but think of how cool it could've been if we suddently got Sebastion as a new main rival for Apollo Justice in AA6 where Edgeworth is Debeste's Mentor (considering Blaise Debeste was also chief prosecutor). Dunno, it could just be kind of cool to see what kind of growth Sebastian would've gotten after 8 years.

Way ahead of you.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7724

Because that's a very unusual wish.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

Bad Player wrote:
Yeah, I know that a lot of the murders in the series rely on coincidence, but this case has an absurd number of them (all the ones you listed in your previous post weren't even half of them), and it's done in a way that I just don't like (ie the murderer does literally nothing beyond the actual murder, and the universe twists itself to create an insane murder plot). Lotta and Larry in 1-4 were coincidences, yes (and Lotta wasn't really that coincidental, since the whole reason Yogi shot twice was to create witnesses (although I guess you could say it was a coincidence that the witness that was created had a camera set up)), but everything else was planned by Manfred/Yogi.
(And on top of that, in 1-4, the coincidences really don't add to the mystery at all, but instead merely provide the clues necessary to solve it, whereas in I2-5, it's the coincidences and really the coincidences alone that create the mystery.)

I guess it just didn't bother me because I knew the murderer wasn't trying to make it seem like Moozilla was the murderer because there was no reason behind it. My original thought was that Ou was digging something up (making the footprints) and then the murderer killed him...somehow. I still think it came together nicely and besides the one element of it, I didn't have to stretch my sense of disbelief that much (and I just realized that him dangling "Ou" is supposed to be an example of him controlling people like puppets)

And really, even if the case was a "simple", crush Ou on the Big Tower, freeze his corpse, and dump it at the film studio where the fallen Moozilla head is (and there's no suspicion of a monster), the case is still very well constructed. We still have Shimon introduced, the SS-5 incident, the villain, the music, as well as the great development for Mikagami, Yumihiko, Edgeworth, and Lang. The mystery surrounding the "how" of Ou's death is kind of just a cherry on top of the sundae. If you don't like the cherry, you can still enjoy the sundae

My biggest problem with the case is actually Souta's transformation. As I've said before, I do think he's a great villain, but his transformation makes him a completely different character; so much so, that when I replay Case 2, I don't even think of him as the same character as the one later in the game. If Edgeworth's deduction was that the Mastermind was a clown who worked at the circus, all we'd really lose is the big twist of the Mastermind's identity. The Mastermind version of Souta literally retains no qualities of the fake Souta
Nearavex wrote:
Shimon made a cameo in Case 3, so there were literally no new characters in Case 5.

Eh. I hardly think that's fair. We don't even learn his name until Case 5. It's like saying Zak isn't a new character in 4-4 because we see his corpse in 4-1
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

I just beat the next part... jesus... this case is A MESS, man. I honestly think it's going a bit too far with both the amount of characters and the amount of plot-threads that intertwine. Ace Attorney has always been convoluted but this one is like the epitome of it. I think I understand why they called it "the grand turnabout" now.

just to be clear though, I do kinda like the case. I'm actually paying attention to what is going on so that means I'm hooked, but the idea of involving Zheng Fa, Lang and at the same time tie it to all the other cases of the game reminds me why I never thought having one big cohesive story in am Ace Attorney game was a good idea. I'm just kinda split about it. On one hand it makes every bit of the game relevant to a larger scheme, but on the other hand it is a messy handling of narrative.

It's kinda how I liked The Amazing Spiderman 2 but I can't deny it has an overconvoluted plot and that it is too reliant on coincidences.

And regarding the character bloating. How could they not see it? Why is it necessary to have Will Powers back (and dear god, Iwamoto, you mutilated his design! ) and was it really necessary to make a Lotta Hart clone, and then ALSO include Lotta Hart herself?? I mean it's practically just their design that differentiates them from each other.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

linkenski wrote:
And regarding the character bloating. How could they not see it? Why is it necessary to have Will Powers back (and dear god, Iwamoto, you mutilated his design! ) and was it really necessary to make a Lotta Hart clone, and then ALSO include Lotta Hart herself?? I mean it's practically just their design that differentiates them from each other.

Bad Player wrote:
Hayami=recordings
Lotta=photographs
There's a difference! ^^"
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

Wow, and what a huge difference that makes...

Initially I didn't mind there being a duo of them, but when you couple them with all the other new and old characters of I2-5's cast then it just becomes "even more, on top of too much" and I desperately wish I could somehow cut down on the size of the cast just to make the case a bit easier to swallow. I mean, half the characters don't even do anything at the point I'm at >__> especially not Will Powers.

And speaking of him, is it just me, or is his new "grumpy" animation a ripoff of Lotta Hart's? it looks like they just took her positure and gave it to Will Power's skeleton, and his eyes look... EWWW. it looks bad.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

linkenski wrote:
Wow, and what a huge difference that makes...

Initially I didn't mind there being a duo of them, but when you couple them with all the other new and old characters of I2-5's cast then it just becomes "even more, on top of too much" and I desperately wish I could somehow cut down on the size of the cast just to make the case a bit easier to swallow. I mean, half the characters don't even do anything at the point I'm at >__> especially not Will Powers.

And speaking of him, is it just me, or is his new "grumpy" animation a ripoff of Lotta Hart's? it looks like they just took her positure and gave it to Will Power's skeleton, and his eyes look... EWWW. it looks bad.

It was more a joke. Overall, though, I do like Hayami better than Lotta for some reason. I don't really know why. She's more endearing, I guess? I couldn't really tell you. They're 40 places apart on my favorite characters list for some reason

But yeah, Will Powers looked like complete shit and was absolutely unnecessary
linkenski wrote:
I just beat the next part... jesus... this case is A MESS, man. I honestly think it's going a bit too far with both the amount of characters and the amount of plot-threads that intertwine. Ace Attorney has always been convoluted but this one is like the epitome of it. I think I understand why they called it "the grand turnabout" now.

just to be clear though, I do kinda like the case. I'm actually paying attention to what is going on so that means I'm hooked, but the idea of involving Zheng Fa, Lang and at the same time tie it to all the other cases of the game reminds me why I never thought having one big cohesive story in am Ace Attorney game was a good idea. I'm just kinda split about it. On one hand it makes every bit of the game relevant to a larger scheme, but on the other hand it is a messy handling of narrative.

It's kinda how I liked The Amazing Spiderman 2 but I can't deny it has an overconvoluted plot and that it is too reliant on coincidences.

Whoawhoawhoawhoawhoa. Let's not compare this to Amazing Spiderman 2. At the very least, you can tell actual effort was put into this case and it wasn't simply farted out by a director

The thing to remember about AAI2 is that it's very much the sum of its parts. Even if you don't like Case 2, it's still absolutely necessary to the larger picture of the game. Think of it like this; instead of splitting Ace Attorney into a trilogy, Takumi made Case 1 Turnabout Sisters, Case 2 Turnabout Goodbyes, Case 3 Reunion, Then Turnabout, Case 4 is now Turnabout Memories/Beginnings, and Case 5 is now Bridge to the Turnabout. That's basically AAI2. A large narrative shoved into one game. I think it was pulled off very well but I do think the game was intended to be binged because there are a lot of small details to remember that add to the overall experience
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6930

linkenski wrote:
Wow, and what a huge difference that makes...

Initially I didn't mind there being a duo of them, but when you couple them with all the other new and old characters of I2-5's cast then it just becomes "even more, on top of too much" and I desperately wish I could somehow cut down on the size of the cast just to make the case a bit easier to swallow. I mean, half the characters don't even do anything at the point I'm at >__> especially not Will Powers.

And speaking of him, is it just me, or is his new "grumpy" animation a ripoff of Lotta Hart's? it looks like they just took her positure and gave it to Will Power's skeleton, and his eyes look... EWWW. it looks bad.

I think the problem is less all the characters, and more all the characters on screen at once. We can't know for sure, but you might not have felt that way about the cast if the final showdown was just Edgey, Kay, Gummy, Souta, Mikagami, and Shimon.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Y'know

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:51 pm

Posts: 787

linkenski wrote:
And regarding the character bloating. How could they not see it? Why is it necessary to have Will Powers back (and dear god, Iwamoto, you mutilated his design! ) and was it really necessary to make a Lotta Hart clone, and then ALSO include Lotta Hart herself?? I mean it's practically just their design that differentiates them from each other.

...Actually, I think Will's GK2 design is far superior, myself...
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

Waaaaat!? He looks completely deformed :/
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

Gender: Male

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:48 pm

Posts: 48

I really don't see the problem in his sprites. :/
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Y'know

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:51 pm

Posts: 787

linkenski wrote:
Waaaaat!? He looks completely deformed :/

I'd say this statement applies more to his original sprites...

ImageImage

In the first one's case, something puts me off about that pose and the second... no human being crosses arms like this...


Last edited by Nearavex on Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

The things that make him look weird in AA1 and 2 is that he's clearly been poorly upressed from his GBA sprite. His arms crossong wasn't added until AA2 and was drawn by a new animator so that's whyvit looks weird. But look at his arms-crossing in AAI2, dude. His eye looks friggin weird.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7724

I could hardly even look at Will in GK2. I just turned my eyes away whenever he appeared on the screen.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

Well, what can I say. The beginning and end kept me hooked, but I felt that the middle section dragged on too much for my liking.
Though I do have some complaints.

1. How slow do you have to be to not be able to avoid being crushed by a hot air balloon?
2. Edgeworth proves that the killer's truck is the truck that was parked in front of the Grand Tower by showing that his fingerprints are still on the truck. Except he was the one who dusted the fingerprints. No one calls him out that he could easily forge his prints on the truck right there. Actually, I should probably just be complaining about Ema's pointless cameo.
3. "On this day, mankind received a grim reminder; we lived in fear of the Mighty Moozilla!"
4. Not specifically this case, but it was here that I realized that this series tends to reuse a certain plot point. Tell me if this sounds familiar:
"I did it. I am the murderer. It has to be me. I'm sure of it."
"What an unfortunate accident. Isn't that just sad, protagonist?"
"No, because the real murderer is you!"
"Unnngaaahhhhh!"
Spoiler:
It's been done in 1-4, 1-5, 2-2, I-3, II-4, II-5, and 5-5.

Because of this, it became really hard to care when it appeared that John was indirectly responsible for the victim's death. We've seen this so many times that we know John will turn out to be innocent all along. Sure, it may make the villain look like a douche, but just once I want to see the effects of the unfortunate accident turning out to actually be the truth they were searching for.
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1545

It was actually a decent subversion cause during John's testimony, Confrontation ~ Presto played, which only plays if the person you're talking to is guilty. This was the only time that wasn't the case. I might've been fooled if it had been closer to the end of the case or if there were two murders in this case

The DLC for DD had an accident turned murder, though
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

Y'know

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:51 pm

Posts: 787

linkenski wrote:
The things that make him look weird in AA1 and 2 is that he's clearly been poorly upressed from his GBA sprite. His arms crossong wasn't added until AA2 and was drawn by a new animator so that's whyvit looks weird. But look at his arms-crossing in AAI2, dude. His eye looks friggin weird.

Not like a justification makes the original sprites better.

Also, just checked it out, the eyes pretty much the same... What's so bad about them?

Image
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
User avatar

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

Looks like his left eyeball is about to pop out or something to me :p
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Page 1 of 3 [ 94 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

 Board index » Phoenix Wright » Prosecutor's Lobby » Gourdzilla's Lair (GK2)

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Magpie [Spider] and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
Powered by phpBB

phpBB SEO