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Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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And now,for number 29! Shoot for the stars,baby,and to infinity and beyond! You'll be fine,you'll make it back in good shape! Yes,let's go!





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Spoiler: All the games
#29-The Cosmic Turnabout

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Another DD case falls,and it's the fourth case! Now all we've got are the final one and the DLC case. And when DLC is one of your strong points,you know you're in for trouble. But let's talk about this case in particular. We will only be discussing the stuff in this case,by the way. The things which are involved in the final case will be saved for later. So therefore,I won't really be talking about the story until it later culminates in the fifth case.

The opening is very effective. The question of why Apollo is wearing the bandages even before the bomb blast and why Blackquill seems particularly angry shakes the whole first trial. The victim also brings intrigue,being Apollo's friend. The end of the first trial with Tonate bursting in is a great cliffhanger.

The mystery is alright,but unmemorable. There's all this talk about doors, hallways, and moving rooms that I can hardly remember them. They try to spice it up by talking about the 'Three Muskedoors',but then all I think of is why Athena even refuses to use terms like North or South that I forget about it entirely.

The presentation is alright,with characters moving around like crazy. The space environment is also neat. The gameplay is fine,but the testimonies and the Mood Matrix are rather easy. The Psyche Locks are back,but not very good since there are no penalties and you can just break them from the get go.

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The characters are fine. Starbuck is sad,though his sigh got on my nerves. Aura doesn't do much here,except project a rather mysterious vibe and also sees the mysterious killer. Ponco is actually very funny,and Clonco is sorta Plonco except creepier. Yuri is the best,undoubtedly. His obliviousness to when he's being insulted and his narcissism suit him perfectly,and his theme is awe inspiring. He's also very sympathethic in the end,just wanting to save his people. And his breakdown-marvellous!

And that's the fourth case! Sorry for the short writeup today,there's just not much I can say about this case. It's clear that this and the final case were originally one,but then they took out one case for DLC,and they had to split this into two to give the usual five cases. So this case gets the short end of the stick,unfortunately. I'm giving it a 6.9/10.

Next time,a case with Godot.

[hint box]
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Last edited by Socot on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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Sorry for the double post,but I just wanted to say that I'm updating the original post with all my case rankings so far-their names,rankings and scores. Still in progress,and will be until this ranking gets over (which is,according to my calculations,on New Years Eve. Hooray!). And now you can use those links to get to each of my individual rankings,no hassle. I recommend everyone else who's doing a ranking currently do this too. It'll be more efficient and save lots of time in the long run.

Well,that's it. G'day!
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Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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Only took me an hour,but I finished linking everything for now! Tell me if there's a problem with one of the links or something.
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Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: SC-29
I never really felt the Clay Terran vibe, so to speak. They said it's Apollo's friend but... I honestly just wasn't feeling it. Felt like just any guy to me, most likely because the first time we meet him, he's already dead, so we got no time to get attached to him at all. Only in hindsight they said "He's totally Apollo's friend, y'all". There are other issues I have with this case, but I'll save that for 5-5.
Now, I agree, Yuri was the best, and I actually think most people here would agree. I don't think I've seen anyone say they didn't like Yuri.
Uhm, I wish I could say more, but I honestly don't remember what was part of 5-4 and what was part of 5-5, so I'll just save it all for 5-5.

Oh, right! Psyche Locks! They were disappointing overall, not just in this case. And this includes SoJ. They are always solvable the moment you see them, and they're not particularly difficult either. I don't think they give penalties in SoJ either (but I wouldn't know since I never failed one; they were that easy). This is largely due to how linear the investigations are. It's always going from Point A to B to C to D, and you don't even need to figure that out on your own... The characters will make it very clear where you need to go, even if they don't have a particular reason to go there.
"Let's move to Location D to talk over the case for no particular reason" Bah.
Also a minor point, but it's related to this, I miss the fact that you can just teleport to every location from every location. In the original trilogy, you could only move to certain places from other places, as if you're actually walking around. Sure, it could be tedious, especially with the investigations not being linear and sometimes being aimless, but that's what I loved about it. It was very immersive and showed exactly what Phoenix's investigations are about... Just walk around and just happen upon the right evidence and use that to come up with crazy theories.
Now, it's Phoenix getting into his teleporter and always knowing exactly where to go. That just breaks the immersion for me.
...But I digress. This has little to do with the actual case

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Last edited by Nurio on Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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I agree.

What's this about 6-4 and 6-5 though?
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Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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Whoops. That's a mistake. Edited. I meant 5 instead of 6... Guess I still have SoJ fresh on my mind
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Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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I tried to do a quick overview using D.A McCoy's method of scoring each case (although I used a scale from 1 to 10) and calculating the average for each game. I don't remember every case very well, especially DD I seriously need to play to revise my vague at best impressions of the cases. (Also, I only counted the main games in their own rights, not standalone DLC cases and not 1-5 as it wasn't part of the original PW1.)

1: Apollo Justice
2. Trials and Tribulations
3. Phoenix Wright
4. Spirit of Justice
5. Justice for All
6. Gyakuten Kenji 2
7. Dual Destinies
8. Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright
9. Ace Attorney Investigations

As far as I remember, this order seems pretty legit to me. AJ has its issues and flimsy execution, but I like all of the cases very much. 4-2 is one of my absolute favourite cases, 4-1 is my favourite tutorial case etc. I tend to put PW over T&T but in all honesty that's mostly because of 1-4. T&T has a nice flow to it, and the segment where you play as Edgeworth puts it high on my list in its own right, also getting to play as Mia was great; it was neatly put together and also offered some fresh stuff like that. PLvsPW is hard to judge alongside the other entries; the placement on the list only tells where its court segments place, not the entire game in itself.

With regards to this I'm curious, how well do you remember each case? I had a hard time just giving each a score, I'd never be able to flesh out my feelings about every case in the series like some of you are doing here, not without recently having played the case in question.
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Time to get into the next pair of cases, and this is where the first surprise(s?) show up.

Spoiler: Spirit of Justice, Trials and Tribulations
34. The Foreign Turnabout

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Spirit of Justice is easily the game most fresh in my mind, so the rankings should be the most accurate. And no matter how hard I tried to love it, The Foreign Turnabout is the worst case in the game. It does a lot of things well, such as introducing some Rayfa and the Divination Seance. Andistan'dhin is also a fantastic first villain. The main problem is, like all of SoJ, the pacing. There is just so much extra dialogue in this case, and only 4 cross examinations (Might be 5, idk). And even then, the cross examinations aren't very special either. For only 4 cross examinations and 1 seance, the case should not take 2+ hours to beat. Other than that, the case is very well constructed, with a solid mystery, some really good contradictions (Especially the window one IMO), and the writing quality is quite good. It's just too dragged out for it to merit a ranking higher than this.

33. Turnabout Beginnings

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Here it is. Arguably the most loved case from T&T besides Bridge to the Turnabout, Turnabout Beginnings doesn't even crack the top 30. And really, it only comes down to one thing: I don't care about Terry Fawles. The major factor for people loving this case is Fawles killing himself at the end, but when that happened to me, I just went "meh" and moved on. I just didn't care that much about it, and with that part removed from the equation the trial just ended up being mediocre. The best part by far is the characters, as Mia, Armando, Edgeworth, Gumshoe, and Dahlia are all spectacular. But the case itself isn't very exciting, and it just feels like a basic case. Nothing too exciting happens, and all it does is set up Bridge. I honestly don't have too much more to say about it, as it's just a forgettable case IMO.
Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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Hey there GfM! Didn't expect to see you here,lol.

I wouldn't trust averages myself. The cases are indeed a huge factor in all of this,but take in the general stuff-the MCs,the overall presentation,the music and gameplay....then you can have a clear image of the games in your mind. With just averaging the cases,my top three game rankings were completely different from my actual top three game rankings.

Oh,if you want to know how I remember each individual case,well,usually I've replayed it by the time I get to it,or I remember the gist of it. I don't really remember some of the Layton trials though,so I've had to read up on them to fully recall it. Maybe watch some playthroughs,or read a Wikipedia summary. That's my advice to you.

Also maybe don't rank DD if you haven't actually played it. Brammimond didn't rank AJ,and Thunder84 isn't ranking DGS. I recommend doing only the ones you actually played,because the gameplay is also an important factor in all of this.

Oh,and my ranking coming later today.
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Last edited by Socot on Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Southern Corn wrote:
I wouldn't trust averages myself. The cases are indeed a huge factor in all of this,but take in the general stuff-the MCs,the overall presentation,the music and gameplay....then you can have a clear image of the games in your mind. With just averaging the cases,my top three game rankings were completely different from my actual top three game rankings.


Pretty much this. Going by strict rankings for averages can really be inaccurate. Usually, the difference between someone's top two cases and bottom two cases are very different, but using a numbers-only method makes the difference the exact same.
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Number 28, your turn! Oh hey,almost forgot. With this and the next one,we will not only be through with the Good Tier,but also officially be halfway through the list! Hooray! So let's not waste any more time,and continue with the rankings.





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Spoiler: All the games
#28-The Stolen Turnabout

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And yet another T&T case falls,and it's the first filler case of the game. This one is interesting in many ways,especially the beginning. Let's go into more detail.

The first part of the case is completely different from its second half,as surprisingly,no murder has occurred! It's just a case of theft. And a rather simple one at that. The second half,however,focuses on the murder of Kane Bullard. And this is both a boon and a punishment to the case. How?

The story slowly complicates itself as it goes on,and gets harder to follow. And I genuinely still can't exactly remember the story properly. There's so much blackmail going on that it's confusing. I did like the story of Ron saving Desiree though. Not because it's adorable,but because you may initially think that it could have something to do with the incident. But it seemingly doesn't. But then on looking back,it is the catalyst for the whole case. Because of this,they married,and then Desiree started shopping even more,and thus Ron became Mask*DeMasque. It's actually better in hindsight,and one of the small things that make this case entirely.

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The mystery is good,though like the Imprisoned Turnabout,too complex for a second case. Not the first day of course,but the second day. It's so tricky,and the final cross examination is so subtle that players may miss it entirely;only stumbling upon it by blind luck. This is waaaay harder than the third case,which is confusing in terms of gameplay. Yeah,even the gameplay is confusing. Some of the testimonies are solved by pressing one thing,then pressing another with some new information,which isn't exactly intuitive for new players. The photo contradiction is also tricky.

The presentation is substandard,and the music alright. In a meta sense though,this case does contribute some stuff. This case introduces the toilet joke,which came back in DD for some reason? Some Fey clan stuff is discussed here for recapping JfA and also for introducing a few more elements that will be important in 3-5. The Ami statue is seen here,and the urn being broken again and put back together is sort of foreshadowing for the gravy scroll. This also starts the whole Pearl slapping Phoenix when she feels he's betraying Maya,which I'm not the biggest fan of.

The characters here are hilarious. Maya and Pearl undergo their own development here in this case,and even Phoenix does too. I didn't like Mia's role here though. Very unnecessary. Godot here is very mysterious,and the trick he pulls at the end of the first day is clever. But the tricks he pulls here are very limited. Unlike Edgeworth or Franziska,all Godot has is the proof card. Most prosecutors use it at some point,but that's all he has,which doesn't make him seem very clever.

The new characters here are great. Luke Atmey is a clever pun,and his overall demeanour is nicely done. His writing is great,and leads to some of the funnier lines in this game. He's very smart,and was only caught by a minor detail,unlike Tigre. Dessie is just a fun character to be around,and a literal 'red' herring. Her undying love for Ron even at the end is great,and beautiful. Ron himself is amazing. At first you think 'Nah,he's too stupid to be a thief',making the twist that he is actually Mask*DeMasque is great. And the fact that he can get away with it too (though I don't think that's how Double Jeopardy works,but eh,it's AA) is stupendous. I like the fact that Adrian came back,too,and it was a neat way to see how she had calmed down from the events of 2-4.

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And that's the Stolen Turnabout! It's a very strong case,but mayhaps a tad too strong? I don't know,it still feels rather complex for a second case,and that's its biggest downfall in the end. So I'm giving it a 6.91/10. See you later!

Hint:The next case involves Pearl having Psyche Locks.

[hint box]
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Last edited by Socot on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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Hiya, SC! I peek around a little everywhere xD That's smart, with the summaries and watching playthroughs :maya:

SC and Thunder: I agree that it's not a foolproof method for ranking the games and there are indeed more factors to it. I mostly wanted to see how it'd turn out, and as it were, my result felt very accurate about how I feel about the games overall.
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Spoiler: SC-28
I was never really into Ron DeLite and I can't really say why in concrete terms. I think simply put (but this is oversimplifying it) he was just too much of a wimp? That's also why the story of how Ron and Desirée got together didn't really click for me. They also just don't seem like a good match to me, but what do I know? =P
For the longest time throughout the case, I thought Desirée was with Ron simply for the money and nothing more. And I was just so certain that was gonna be the twist. (Yet strangely I did keep Luke as a strong suspect as well, since that guy was suspicious from start to finish.)

I do agree that it's a nice twist that Ron ended up actually being Mask DeMasque. But I don't think the whole blackmail affair was that confusing to me. In fact, I think I had figured it out long before you were supposed to. Something about that blackmail letter just reeked of it being misinterpreted; it just felt like it was written by the developers in such a way that you're supposed to interpret it the wrong way. And once you think like that, it's easy to find out what the letter was referring to. (I think the letter said something about wanting 'that red gemstone" or something, and Luke just happens to have exactly that.)

I also don't think the contradictions were particularly tricky... Though I do remember being stuck one time, though I don't know what part that was. I just remember staring at Luke Atmey's mug the whole night and then closing the game, not having made progress. Trust me, not as romantic as it sounds.
No, the contradictions were just right. It's the characters that weren't that great for me. There's the aforementioned Ron, but Desirée always looked like she only cared about the money and her motorcycle, and she just didn't appear much of a help in general. I also never was a fan of Adrian Andrews... Which only leaves Luke Atmey, who I did like a lot, but wasn't enough to carry the whole case.

As for Godot, I always hear people say that Godot only uses the "prove it" card, but I actually not once consciously noticed that while playing the game. And I played it three times. While surely not really having actual tricks up his sleeve, I also never thought the only thing he brought to court was "prove it". But since everyone says that's the case, I simply just assume that's how it was and I simply misremember, which is a good possibility.

Oh, and I loathe Pearl hitting Phoenix. I already am not a fan of physical slapstick humor, but having Pearl get physical over this pushed it from adorable to obsessed, pushy and abusive. ...And I just can't take it seriously if a little girl can knock out a grown man...

Southern Corn wrote:
Dessie is a literal 'red' herring

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Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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Gfm:Heya! :wave:
Yeah,if you don't want to do it,then good for you! I'm not forcing you to do it anyway lol.

Nurio:Hmm,seems like we think the exact opposite of this case,I'm afraid.

But come on,we know you know what I meant by 'literal' :sillytrucy:
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The exact opposite, but it all evens out to give about the same mark for the case, I think. I think I would put that case around that place on my list too, though I couldn't say for certain since I never really tried making a list (and don't really have much of a desire to either)
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I can get you there. I was initially reluctant on this list because it was rather tricky to rank everything. Especially the middle part.
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Finally,with this case,we will be halfway through the list! A historical moment indeed for this list! Number 27, come up here now!






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Spoiler: All the gaems
#27-Reunion,And Turnabout

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Oho,and another Justice for All case falls,and it's probably the one which has the most to do with the plot of the original trilogy,unnecessary comma intact! This one I quite like,but unfortunately wasn't able to get a full 7. Why? Let me show you.

The opening of this case is rather severe. We don't quite understand it till later. The scene where Maya admitted to murder had me lost,and seriously made me wonder if she really did it. Then we start off so casually in our offices,but I for one was feeling rather worried.

The story here is well woven. It has some serious significance to the overall plot of the trilogy,but also has its own thing going with Grey and Mimi. They're both beautifully written,and the concept of spirit channeling is expanded upon. Oh,and Edgeworth is mildly referred to here,but doesn't play much of a role here.

The mystery is well woven as well. The twist where spirit channelling wasn't even used is great subversion,and the explanation of what really happened works. The Miney switch was unexpected for me,but looking back its foreshadowed quite a bit. I like how for once,the victim actually fought back. And I could totally see him doing it too,as it was adequately foreshadowed. This also introduces the infamous urn and poor Pearl breaking it,which is a neat tradition.

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But sadly,since it's JfA,there are still some wonky things here no there. The fingerprints on the murder weapon are never explained (though it can be surmised that they were planted by Morgan), and the part about the gunpowder burn is really wonky. The car twist was confusing to get for me,because as a non-American,I didn't know that the roads are the other way around. What the heck,guys?

The gameplay is fine,though with one glaring flaw-the trials are mostly forgettable. I seriously barely remember the first trial apart from Franziska and Gumshoe,and the second trial really only piqued my interest at the final testimony. The investigations though,are fun and well written,and Psyche Locks are introduced here! They are fun here,because you actually have to go investigate first to break them,unlike the later games.

The presentation is alright,I guess,but I'm not a big fan of JfA's soundtrack. It's just really plain and boring,and the testimony theme is essentially the first game's,but with some notes removed. I personally think that theme is the reason I find the trials so unmemorable. The objection theme,the truth theme...they all seem so weird and disjointed. I'm one of the few who actually really like the pursuit theme,but even then it's my least favourite one.

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The characters are interesting. Pearl is introduced here,and she's great! I find her and her quirks rather cute,and I like how you have to slowly warm up to her. Morgan is shown here,but doesn't truly get interesting until in the third game. Interestingly enough,Maya barely gets any screentime in this case. Pearl-Mia is also introduced, and I wish that she wasn't. She freaks me out on so many levels. Lotta for some reason is back,and I guess she's important? Her role here is just to photograph something misleading,and then clue you in in various bits (Ini/Mimi,the clothes box).

Hotti is introduced here,and I actually don't mind him. He's definitely a creep,but he's well written,making his reappearances all the more hilarious. Turner is malicious,but he's cool. I love how his undying urge to make his nurse say that they were negligent starts off poor Mimi's paranoia. And speaking of whom,Mimi is a great grey area villain. I love how they never specify who was in the wrong,and she had a greatly justified motive to kill Grey. Her role as Ini was a bit annoying though,and her conversations got you nowhere. Franziska is introduced,and she's basically a lesser Manfred. But still a very competent one,and it took quite a while for her to crack.

And thus,the second (last) case of JfA is over! It's definitely a good and well written case,but sadly,the weird plot holes and the forgettable trials push it barely out of my top half. So I have to give it a 6.96/10.

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See you next time for the top half of my 52 cases!

Next time,a case which takes place in a foreign country!

[hint box]
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Last edited by Socot on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Welp, my internet broked yesterday and I wasn't able to get another two out. So, here's 3 instead.

Spoiler: Layton v Wright, Ace Attorney, Investigations
32. The English Turnabout

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I never realized this until I started this write-up, but the English Turnabout was my first ace attorney case ever. I got introduced into the AA series through Layton, and this was the first time I ever played a trial. I don't really remember my first time playing it, and I remember spamming the hint coins, so I consider the original AA as my first "true" Ace Attorney experience/game. I remember the other trials quite well, but the English Turnabout, not so much. It's honestly the most forgettable case in the series. And you should be able to tell how forgettable it is considering it was my very first one. I just don't remember anything about this case. The witnesses weren't bad, just meh. The crime itself isn't even a murder, which does create an interesting scenario of cross-examining the victim. And having said victim be the "true" villain was also pretty cool, and nowadays I wouldn't have expected it at all (Back when I first played, I didn't really know what was happening so I just went with the flow). Other than that, there really isn't too much going on here. Flynch really summarizes this case well: Interesting, but really forgettable.

31. Turnabout Samurai

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And down goes another Ace Attorney case. I usually have a big thing for nostalgia, but when it comes to Ace Attorney it's not a factor at all, since (spoiler alert) my 3 least favorite games are the first 3 I ever played. Not really sure why it's like that, but that's just how it is. Turnabout Samurai is a good median for the game IMO. It's not as good as the last two, but better than the first two. It's silly, not very serious, and just a fun case to play. And that's both the major plus and minus here. It doesn't really absorb you into it's plot, but that could almost be seen as a good thing here. Some things make absolutely no sense at all (For example, the all-encompassing law that forbids walking off the main path and through trees), and for a while this case was much farther down than this. But when I decided to play through this case focusing instead on the silly nature of it's characters, plot, and dialogue, it really turned into something else. Characters like Oldbag, Cody, Manella, and Vasquez all portray these super exaggerated stereotypes, and they flesh really well together. I can't rank this case too high due to the fact that it's one of the least emotionally-driven cases in the series with no real sense of danger (When the "mafia" showed up, I just laughed. They look so stupid.) but if I just want to binge-play a case, this is the one I tend to resort to.

30. Turnabout Visitor

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The first investigations case, Turnabout Visitor introduces the new mechanics very, very well. The culprit is shown right away, unfortunately, as I honestly wouldn't have guessed it was Portsman until late in the second half. Despite it being the 1st case of the game, it's 4th in the timeline throughout the case (I-4, I-2, and I-3 come before it), which can cause some confusion to what the hell a lot of things mean. The contradictions are pretty solid, but the book one confused me though. The big downside is the lack of new characteres, as only Portsman is unique to this case. Having Maggey back is cool and all, but a new defendant/accused would've been better. Yet again, this is a case where I've really said all my thoughts on it. I just don't have anything else to add, as this is a very simple case. I really look forward to when I get to the best cases, because I can go on and on about those.
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And here it is:

The Very Good Tier
Now this is where things start to get interesting. Mostly third and fourth cases here,but I have no major problems with the cases here. From here on out,the rankings on the cases will be way more positive,from 7 and above,but below 7.5. So let's start it with #26...




----





Spoiler: All the gaems
#26-The Foreign Turnabout

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And finally,the first case of the main game of SoJ falls! Honestly,I had a tough time even putting this here,because one part of me loved it so much,but the other part felt that maybe it was too irrational? But ultimately,I had to put it right in the middle. Why? Let's see.

The opening,sadly,reveals who the killer is,thus killing all suspense. At least they didn't show the murder weapon. But other than that,it starts off nice and calm! Yeah,you just land up in Khura'in,and stuff just sorta happens....until suddenly your tour guide is arrested for murder! Yeah,while this may come out of nowhere,I was really looking forward to learning about Khura'in and how it's different from Kurain.

So the story slowly starts piling up little mysteries,like the motive,and Inga,and Dhurke,and when Maya is actually coming back. It's cute,and everyone even has their own mini subplot. It's really enjoyable for the first case.

The mystery is fine too. Though the last contradiction was confusing to me (because I didn't see how that slip of the tongue was that important), I still enjoyed it. I liked how Rohl was the thief,but still Pees'lubn got to it first. The mini buildup to Shah'do was cute as well.

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The gameplay is alright,but the lack of testimonies (only four?!) was confusing. But the Divination Séance made up for that,I suppose. But I feel that it's a bit over designed. Not only do you have to point out the mistake in the insights,but you have to match it with a specific statement? I can totally see this work without that part. But it's still a cool new feature.

The presentation is gorgeous here,way more than DD (but not as much as DGS or the crossover). I think that this is because unlike that game,this takes place in such a unique environment. So they have way more freedom to do crazy and creative stuff than the drab environments back in 'America'.

The music also fits here,and I find it way more exciting than DD's as well. The Dance of Devotion,the cross examination,the pursuit,Pees'lubn's music...the only one which I feel fails a bit is the court theme,which really lacks any kind of central melody. But it also kinda fit the aesthetic nicely,so there's that.

The characters are very neat. Ahlbi undergoes his own little arc about trusting Phoenix,and it's quite a joy. The judge also undergoes the same,allowing Phoenix to point out contradictions without killing him. Rayfa acts rude here,but that last part with her throwing a teeny tiny teenage temper tantrums as terribly terrific,hinting at her true nature. Gaspen is an unexpected surprise,but it makes sense. He acted like a jerk here,but it just made the wig fall even more satisfying.

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And of course,there's Pees'lubn. Honestly,this man is the reason the case is this high. I enjoyed his music at first,but I was not expecting him to go metal. And when he did,I was just laughing the whole way through until he was arrested. It's certainly a novelty,but one that lasted the whole way through for me. It worked on so many levels,and I was just headbanging with him all the way to the end.

Honestly,this case was very fun to play (though when Pees'lubn enters it becomes hilarious). If I had to make a complaint,it would be that they should have divided this case into two segments. Take a recess before Pees'lubn enters or something. But I didn't mind it that much,and in all honesty it's been a while since an AA case had made me laugh so hard. So I give it a 7/10.

Next time,a case where Maya is accused of murdering 2 gentlemen in a foreign country.

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Spoiler: SC-27
Yeah, I remember when Maya said she did it at the start of the case... I was ready to believe it and that we'd have to find a more moral angle where a spirit medium cannot be held responsible for the actions of the spirits she channels. ...That changed when I saw Ini, though, as I could see that it was likely her with a wig and costume on, committing the murder.

Yeah, this case gave us Pearl, one of the cutest characters and one of my personal favorites. Guess I just got a thing for little girls
(Actually, that joke is rather dangerous in today's climate, but I trust no one here takes that joke seriously.)
Her introduction is also really well done. Like you said, you need to warm up to her. It really shows how this girl was raised, being as cautious as that. But oh boy, the moment she finds out you're Maya's "special someone", she's immediately warmed up alright.

The switcheroo between the two Miney sisters was really clever and I never saw that coming, though Phoenix's reasoning is just bollocks. "You stepped out of the right side of the car, so you must be your deceased sister!" Orrrrrr, y'know, she was in a daze and emotional trauma from the accident and losing her sister, and doesn't remember each exact detail exactly right. Especially something as small as which side of the car you stepped out of.

I was never really taken aback by JfA's soundtrack either, and I remember the Objection theme being particularly weak. When I listen back to it now, it sounds alright, but it definitely didn't leave much of an impact. I wouldn't be surprised if the music is part of why the game felt lackluster itself.
...Though that doesn't explain why I forgot most of all the Investigations cases, since I love that music (particularly from the first game)!

Lotta indeed doesn't do a lot here and I even thought it a bit strange for her to be here in the first place. Though I did like that she unintentionally showed that a person could hide in the clothes box. It was done in such a way that you wouldn't realize that was the point of the chase back when it first happens. And only when it's time to present the clothes box do you realize that Lotta provided proof that a person can hide in it.
While not part of the game, I feel it's necessary to point out that Lotta was a lot better in the anime for this case, interestingly enough.

And yeah, this case gave use (good) Psyche Locks. They will be dearly missed...

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Spoiler: SC-26
I liked this case for introducing us to so much new stuff. A new setting, new characters, the Divination Séance...
I particularly liked the Divination Séance, and I never had the problems with it that other people did. It really just requires you to not think ahead too much, take every statement at face value, and see if that statement directly contradicts the vision. What I think happens is that some people look at it a bit too naturally, trying to fill in blanks and read between the lines, which you would do in a normal conversation. But here it's just concrete statements you need to interpret strictly as-is. Just as with the visions themselves.
I... am terrible at reading between the lines and take everything literally, so maybe that's also why the Divination Séance worked really well with me?

I liked the music, though I was disappointed by the Cross Examination theme. It just wasn't as memorable as some of the other Cross Examination themes from other games.

Don't get me started about Pees'lubn. He was alright, and I really enjoyed the music thing he got going on.
...And then the transformation happened. I already explained at length in another thread what I hate about such transformations... But I also simply don't like metal.
There's also something wrong when the final moments of a case are "hilarious" (not to me personally, but that's what the writers were going for) instead of something serious. In the end, it's a murder trial, and you're catching a murderer. That needs to come with its fair share of seriousness.
Surely some lightheartedness and some jokes are fine, even toward the end of the case. But as you put it, you were "laughing and headbanging all the way to the end", and that doesn't seem like something that should happen when you catch a murderer.

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Hm,seems that you agree on the first one,but not so much on the second one. I definitely saw that coming.

Spoiler: SC-26
Honestly,this case was all about that comedy to me. It was gold. And while I did laugh till the end,the aftermath in the lobby with Inga and the ending cutscene felt damn serious to me.

And I actually feel that the new Allegro is the most intense we've had in a while. My personal favourite will always be DGS though

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This thread is interesting. I'll try to do my own rankings and thoughts properly once I've finished SoJ. (I'm also avoiding looking at too much detail in here because I don't want to bias my own thoughts)

I'd wait till I've played PWvsPL but it is near impossible to get at a sensible price in the UK these days.

What I will post for now is the order I'd put the games in (Excluding SoJ because I'm only partway through case 3) based on the last time I tried to make a list (just bear in mind this may well change):-

1. Ace Attorney Investigations (Points Average: 18)
2. Dual Destinies (Points Average: 17)
3. Ace Attorney: Phoenix Wright (Points Average: 16.2)
4. Ace Attorney: Apollo Justice (Points Average: 15)
5. Ace Attorney: Trials & Tribulations (Points Average: 11.8*)
6. Ace Attorney: Justice For All (Points Average: 10.75)

How the points average is worked out: I had a list of the cases ranked from my favourite to least favourite. I gave the top one 29 points (because there is currently 29 cases in this list) and the bottom one 1 point. I then added up all the cases from one game and divided the result by the number of cases in that game to get the points average.

*This is the one most likely to change because I haven't actually completely finished Bridge to the Turnabout so its ranking in my list is provisional.
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Regarding PLvsPW: I noticed that just earlier today as well (when I was buying DD). In the 3DSshop, it was almost twice as expensive as DD and considerably more expensive than SoJ, too.

Anyway, I like that Investgations and DD are your favourites, that seems pretty unusual (at least AAI) :maya: Also, interesting way of scoring.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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Going for Miles wrote:
Regarding PLvsPW: I noticed that just earlier today as well (when I was buying DD). In the 3DSshop, it was almost twice as expensive as DD and considerably more expensive than SoJ, too.


I saw a physical copy in an independent second hand shop over here a while back. They wanted £60 for it if I remember rightly! Uh... no.

I actually own the soundtrack CDs for PLvsPW, which you'd think would be the harder thing to get ahold of but I found a bundle on ebay that was already in the UK (Contained the PLvsPW soundtrack, the AAI & AAI2 soundtracks, and the AJ soundtrack)


Going for Miles wrote:
Anyway, I like that Investgations and DD are your favourites, that seems pretty unusual (at least AAI) :maya: Also, interesting way of scoring.


Thanks. Not sure this is the best way of scoring things as an outlying case can drag things down (case in point - Turnabout Big Top in AA2 is basically the only reason that isn't above AA3 in my ratings. AA2s average without Turnabout Bigtop would be 14), but I do personally agree with AAI being top because I found it the most consistent of all the games. It's not one great case being compared to one terrible case but everything is more towards the middle. I'll try to explain that properly when I go into my rankings in more detail.
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Hm,I'd like to see your detailed rankings before commenting on this. Because this is....interesting.
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Greetings,everybody. Welcome to the spooooky seance! Number 25,please come up here so we can start this rite right. Ready?







----








Spoiler: all the gaems
#25-Rite for Turnabout

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And yet another SoJ case falls! And this one,I feel,has sorta gotten the same reception as 5-3 did,with the whole 'the third case syndrome has finally been broken!' thing. And,once again,I firmly hold that the third cases can actually be very good! And this one is,but....I seriously had to consider putting 6-1 above this at one point. But I feel that it deserves this spot,at the very least. And let me explain why.

The story here is exceptional. Absolutely brilliant,especially from a plotting perspective. It sets up so many plot points in a rather subtle way,and really makes you feel for the characters. It's wondrous. The section in the rebel hideout with Datz is a stark contrast with the section in the palace,and it shows the true nature of Khura'in. It's this case which really makes you lean on the side of the rebels,and the whole thing with how the suicide had to happen is absolutely tragic.

The mystery is even better in retrospect,because at first you're immediately assuming that the rebel hunter,the high priest's killer,and the acolyte's killer are the same person. But they aren't,and the case keeps leading you in that direction. Though at the end I did figure it had to be Beh'leeb by process of elimination,but even then,the motivations and true personality shocked me. I love this part of the case to death. The fact that the Divination Seance was used to 'conceal' the truth made it even better from a gameplay perspective.

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The presentation is gorgeous,showing even more of the Khura'in scenery. The music helps accomodate that,with the Lady Kee'ra song,the investigation themes,Rayfa's theme,the rebel theme,and of course,the Inner Sanctum theme. They are not only atmospheric,but are even fun to hum with. I love love LOVE the overall presentation and story here in this case. It's absolutely amazing and the reason it's been brought up this high in the first place.

But then,it sadly starts to all fall down from there. The gameplay,sadly isn't solid. The first investigation barely gets anything done,and we know so little going in. The first trial is absolutely boring,and is a shaggy dog story (i.e,it's completely useless and a time waster). The first half of the second trial is also rather boring,as with the seance you're only really arguing with Rayfa and the prosecution,and barely anything interesting gets done.

Thank god you can only play certain segments of the game,but even then,the actual segments go waaay too long,and drag on a lot more than the first case. The only parts of this case I would savour is the beginning,the segment in the palace,the second investigation,and the last half of the second trial. The others aren't fun. In fact,I'd say they're singlehandedly the worst segments in the game. Even the DLC didn't drag on this much,and knew where its limits where. And while the Psyche Locks are back,they're still penalty-less (which is a pity,as the second one was actually rather tricky).

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The characters are actually kinda mixed. Let's talk about the main characters first. Phoenix is alright;no troubles there. Maya returns,but barely shows any maturity. They even sorta lampshade that. But that moment at the end with her was good,and it was nice to see her channel again. Ema is back,but since she lacks any problems (her sister or her job),she feels so bland and uninteresting. She's just...there,for the most part.

Rayfa is actually a very fun assistant,and her quips really save the investigations from being as boring as the trials. She even undergoes some crucial development, as she doubts the quality of her seances and starts losing faith in her parents. And her teenage self and new sprites are HILARIOUS,expressing the stark contrast from her in case 1.

But Nahyuta is a jerk,through and through. And he's not even a fun jerk like Blackquill or Franziska. He's just dull,and keeps spouting the same nonsense about the Holy Mother and the hells you're going to go to over and over. He's partially the reason why I detest the trials so much. He doesn't even really have any good moments,unlike cases 2 & 4 (no,the beads don't count;they appear in all his cases anyway).

Ahlbi is alright here,but since he isn't really even your assistant except for the very beginning scene,so he barely gets any good moments unlike case 1. Even the Khura'inese judge becomes uninteresting here,unlike case one,where he had some neat moments (like his wife and classes,and him allowing Phoenix to go on).

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And then there's the new characters. There's Tahrust,whom I actually found both hilarious and sympathetic. Hilarious as in his sprites were great and had that 'spoopy' vibe to it,and sympathetic as in his motivations. I don't think he's bad,but just that he panicked in trying to save his wife and did more than he needed too,which showcases the tragedy even further.

Beh'leeb is good from an emotional standpoint,but I feel her parts in the investigation were boring,and you could barely even talk to her. Datz...is unfunny. I don't really like him or the way he ruined the first trial. The segment with him in the second investigation was really good though,as I already explained. Inga and Ga'ran appear,but only to foreshadow case five. And Zehlot/Neh'mu is a nice idea,but we never really get to know him that well.

Oh,and the darn names. This is probably the low point of the names,because not only are there the usual bad names (like the Inmees,Datz,and freaking Zehlot/Neh'mu),but the non character names are about just as bad (Kee'ra,War'baad,and the names of those dishes). Which ruins the immersion in the otherwise stellar presentation.

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Oh,and there are some unique parallels to Turnabout Samurai (and I don't mean the Plumed Punisher). The murderer,the motive,and even the cause of death all ring familiar to my ears. What's up with that?

But oof,it seems that I went on a bit of a rant here. This case,while having a stellar mystery and story,(im)perfect presentation and average characters,has terrible and forgettable gameplay,and I would only want to ever replay a few parts of this case. But I don't feel that it's below 6-1. No,this is the only case here (I swear) that has really good and really bad parts to it that just perfectly balance each other out to a 7.05/10.

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See you next time!

Next time,a third case where Maya channels Mia.

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Spoiler: SC-25
I loved the idea of seeing Maya again, and I don't hate that they brought her back... But yeah, it was a bit disappointing. I would've loved to see a Maya who is still energetic and playful, but grew a bit more mature in her humor and demeanor. Not even the bit at the end of this case made it right for me, because that was too cliché for me, especially that expression. Seriously, I've seen this expression on so many characters that are purported as being mature/caring/motherly. Like, that exact expression; it's become a trope to me. And it's like they literally copy-pasted that expression onto Maya
...But like I said, I did like seeing her again and don't hate her reappearance. I just had hoped more from it. I'm okay with her actual role in this case (for the most part being a plot device) and the fact she's the defendant once again. That's honestly to be expected and I was prepared for that.

For some reason, I saw the suicide coming about halfway in the case. I thought that, barring the idea that Be'leeb killed him, the only one who could've killed him was himself, and it'd fit with the Séance vision as well. I just couldn't figure out why, and honestly I still don't think I completely get it. There were so many things he could've done that didn't involve killing himself, it just seemed like a way for the writers to show "The DC Act drives people to suicide, it's that bad!"
It's especially stupid, because for how selfless they portray it to be, that exact thing is what got Maya to be accused of killing him AND being Kee'ra on top of that. Hardly an altruistic action

Be'Leeb was tragic, though. When you first meet her, and see her talking to that portrait... Man, that sure made me well up a bit. I even thought of breaking my tradition of presenting each piece of evidence, just so I wouldn't torment her. ...But, I am a beast of tradition, so I did it anyway. And then that ending scene with her. Man...

I feel like I am the only one who doesn't mind the first day of this trial. I didn't notice any of the issues of "not getting anywhere" that other people mentioned. At least, that's not my main gripe with it anyway. Maybe I'm too used to the boatload of visual novels with chapters of nothingness but people interacting with each other. It's also why I don't mind cases dragging on or feeling bloated. I just like to see character interaction, and we got plenty of that from Phoenix and Rayfa in this case.
Rayfa was great for all the reasons you mentioned.

Also, I don't think Ema had no problems. Her biggest problem was investigating and testifying against Maya (and in extent, Phoenix). She also isn't exactly comfortable with being dragged all over the place by the prosecutor.
Speaking of the prosecutor. Yeah, screw him. He's not funny, not interesting, not clever, not sympathetic... And he's just a bland jerk. The only time I thought he had some merits were in 6-4.

I actually liked Datz, though I can see why others wouldn't. He's just very much like a dog, to me. His goofy happy expression, his recklessness, his energy, his loyalty... Surely I'm not the only one who sees this!

And don't get me started on the terrible names again. =P

Next case is either 1-3 or 3-3, both being equally likely, since the channeling played a role in the investigations of both cases.

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Yeah,I can see where you're coming from.

And you're right on the next one ;)
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I don't have any excuses this time for missing yesterday, so I'll make it up with 3 more here. Also, now that I'm getting into the better cases, I'm gonna be a bit more detailed.

Spoiler: Dual Destinies, Layton v Wright
29. Turnabout Countdown

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At long last, Dual Destinies makes it's first appearance on the list. It's fitting that the first case to appear is the first case, as that has been the case with most of the other games I've ranked. So, let's dive in to see what put's Countdown at 29.

When it comes to grand scale, this first case might be the largest of the bunch. Only one other first case can really counter it, as starting off with a bombing is pretty big. The lack of victims from said bombing is fairly surprising (No one died somehow) and it definitely raised some question marks in my head when I heard only one person had died. It seemed my intuition was correct, as Arme died before the bombing even occurred. The timeline is a bit confusing, considering that there's two days in this case (No investigation though) and it focuses on two separate incidents. A lot of the contradictions are very well written, but sometimes the execution of them was fairly poor. The best example of this is when you prove Arme was killed before, as the cracked writing is very, very clever and one of the best contradictions in the game IMO. However, getting to said contradiction is very confusing, as you basically have to undo everything you just proved. It's unfortunate, and it's one of the major downfalls of this case.

The characters are your standard group, none poor and none excellent. Arme is very much a lifeless victim with no personality, but it doesn't drag the case down at all. Woods is the best of the bunch, as her nervous behavior makes for a great first defendant and it creates a good contrast with her behavior in 5-3. Gaspen is just another Payne, albeit a much bigger douchebag. Tonate is robotic, and doesn't have a whole lot of personality. I still like him, and he makes a good first villain. I wish they had done more in playing up him directing the escape of the entire courtroom, as it paints him in a much better light as a more sympathetic person.

Overall, Turnabout Countdown is a solid first case, with it's ups and downs and a decent cast. It's a great start to DD, and it creates a good "Aha!" moment when you connect that the beginning of 5-4 comes right before this case. 29 feels just right.

28. The Fire Witch

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I've been coming at Layton vs Wright a lot in my last two summaries, but I do indeed like this game. I just don't think they handled the crossover aspect very well, as the game is very much biased towards Layton gameplay. And while the 1st and last trials aren't up to par, the middle cases are quite good. The Fire Witch, the second case in the game, deals with it's own problems, but it really introduces you to the witch trial system well, adding two new layers to cross-examinations and having the only true "WTF IT WAS THEM?" type of villain, as the other 3 are fairly obvious.

The case itself isn't complicated at all. Espella is accused of burning the shit out of some muggers in a forest. Ok, doesn't sound too difficult. However, things become interesting quickly when all the usual methods of proving someone guilty/innocent are thrown out the window. No forensic analysis exists in Labyrinthia, and you're forced to use things such as drawings and magic spells to prove her innocent. Not only that, but 4 witnesses take the stand at the start, with a 5th one joining in later. It really creates a dynamic of having the whole courtroom against you, as the witnesses constantly work together to try and get Espella convicted. In the end, some interesting word twists turn the case on it's head and get Kira convicted as the witch instead of Espella.

The big weakness in this case, however, is the characters. Espella is a fine character, but it isn't a coincidence that the three trials with her as the defendant are the lowest 3 on my list. However, this time Espella is in a normal state of mind, which improves it over the other two cases. Barnham is easily the worst prosecutor in the series, although it isn't his fault at all. It's the developers' for not giving him any character whatsoever until after the 3rd trial. The witnesses are...eh. Knightle and Wordsmith are the weakest of the bunch. Mary and Kira follow next as pretty decent, and Kira improves drastically when she goes straight up berserk. The real star of the show though is Emeer Punchenbaug, the drunk loser who constantly is the butt of pretty much everything. Every time I play this case, he gives me quite a few good laughs. Phoenix himself goes through amnesia at the start of the trial (ugh), but he becomes his normal self pretty quickly.

In the end, The Fire Witch is a case with a great idea, but it falls short due to a lackluster group of characters and the limitations of the game. This is a case that could've been much better with more backstory and a different defendant, but with the game being very Layton-based, what we got was a fine result.

27. The Monstrous Turnabout

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Down goes another Dual Destinies case. The Monstrous Turnabout is a great case, and the trial segments are excellent. However, it's brought down a lot by it's poor, long, drawn out investigation segments. The Yokai theme is definitely from Japan (Thanks Yamazaki), but the localization team did a really good job with it and making it feel still somewhat American.

The case is a locked-room mystery, which can easily be some of the best mysteries if done right. And while there are a few possible entrances to start, once the ventilation shaft is ruled out it's pretty obvious where the killer came from. The crime itself looks complicated, but it's actually pretty simple once the disguise part is past. The use of the Amazing Nine-Tails and the wrestler's mask is brilliant, albeit kinda random. Still, it works. We also get our first look at revisualization, and despite it being very, very short, the first time I played through this I was blown away at how epic it was. Apollo's bracelet should've been used more in this episode though (It should've been used more throughout the game in general), but the mood matrix is pretty good in this case.

The characters are weird, but not standout at all. Filch is the best of the group, and his thief gimmick is pretty funy. However, he's forgettable. L'Belle annoys the shit out of me, but that made taking him down at the end much, much, much more enjoyable. Jinxie is annoying also, and her charms are so pointless. Damian is better, but with his stupid bird gimmick he's dragged down a lot. Kyubi is another one of those "I dunno wtf you did in life" victims. The real standouts here are the main characters, and they all are characterized very well. Simon is fantastic, Athena gets a much better introduction, and Apollo is still phenomenally written. Oh, and Trucy shows up for like 3 minutes and does nothing.

If it weren't for the annoying characters and their gimmicks, this case would probably be higher. The incorporation of monsters is done fine, the case is solid, and the main characters are all fantastic. But the characters singlehandedly make investigations a slog, as I never felt any desire to talk to any of them.

Since I've been so bad at keeping up with this, I'm probably gonna do two each time so I get everything out of the way quicker. And we're just a pair of plane-based cases away from getting to the really good ones.


And, quick update on what cases are left.
Spoiler:
AA: 1-4, 1-5
JFA: 2-4
T&T: 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, 3-5
AJ: 4-1, 4-3, 4-4
AAI: I-2, I-4, I-5
PP: I2-1, I2-3, I2-4, I2-5
DD: 5-3, 5-4, 5-5, 5-S
SOJ: 6-2, 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-S
LvW: L-3
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'How much is 4!?',you ask? 24,of course! Number 24,come up here. You have a lil' loan to pay for us.




----












Spoiler: all the gaems
#24-Recipe for Turnabout

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Wow,another T&T case falls! The only one remaining is....the final case! And yet,it still lands in my top three AA games. But this case,I actually like quite a bit. Wanna know why? Then read on,my friend!

The opening scene is very confusing,as it not only shows Phoenix losing to Payne of all people,but also shows HIM committing the crime! Really? Did they have to show the killer in the third case? But this makes the story interesting and even personal,as you're trying to prove that you didn't fail (ironic,as this is chronologically only a few months after 2-4) and to get Maggey off yet again!Other than that,it's alright. I like Viola's role in this,and Jean actually was way better than expected. More on that later. And I do like the foreshadowing on Godot with the apron. It sets up a contradiction in 3-5,but is very subtle about it.

The mystery is alright,and I do like the major twist that Victor was actually right and that there were two 'murders'. It made perfect sense,and I have to give it to Tigre for coming up with it on the fly. Though the computer stuff,was rather outdated in retrospect. Very outdated,in fact.
The explanation about the computer virus is very common knowledge nowadays,and is also partially the reason I'm confused why they keep saying it takes place in THA FUTUURRR!!!!111 when it clearly takes place in the late 90s or so (mayhaps to justify the strange devices and gadgetry we keep seeing like the Mood Matrix and Little Thief?).Also,if the crime took place a month ago,then why does everyone act as if it took place this week? The table is still taped off,for example.

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I do like the locations in this case. They're so generic,but in a good way,unlike DD. There's a French restaraunt,a fruit park,a loan shop,a weird computer location,and the good old office and police department. They're so fun to explore and see,and they all are still connected to the case. If I had to say one bad thing about these,it would be that maybe they feel a tad disjointed? It feels as if they all were originally seperate cases,but had to be brought together due to lack of space or something. But still,they're very enjoyable a la 1-3 and 4-2.

The presentation is alright. The music is fine (especially Furio's) and the gameplay is good except the 'Moe testimonies' (aka the ones where you get penalised for pressing).Actually,I feel that this and 3-2 should've been swapped,because the contradictions are simpler. The Psyche Locks are as hard as ever (sans poor Gummy),and the trial segments contain some genuinely good contradictions (like the one with the tea). Though the last part was disappointing. I mean,Tigre going dumb is way less satisfying than Atmey's subtle mistake.

And the characters are,like the locations,all over the place. Maggey returns,but her actions here are quite rude. I felt that she was way too hard on poor old Gummy,which makes the last part sadder without him at the end. Speaking of whom,Gumshoe is great here. He really gets to undergo his own arc without interrupting anyone else's,and him saving Phoenix from Tigre is very reminiscent of 1-3.

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Victor is actually relatable,as his getting ignored by everyone when he was actually right the whole time is quite sad.Though that's displaced by his....interests in coming to Très Bien. Jean has some depth to him,and you can really feel for the poor guy. If Viola constantly came and threatened me,I'd give in rather easily. His involvement is the trial is good too,as it isn't really awkward and gives players time to think. Tigre is quite a smart foe,disguising himself as a dumb brute,though him giving away too much info at the end was sadly dumb.

Viola is very sympathetic and her Psyche Lock breaking was the emotional climax of the case to me.Glen is actually rather unlucky,from needing to pay but then winning the lottery but then dying anyway. Poor sod. Lisa is a less interesting character than Penny. Godot is back,but this time his arguments are weaker than ever. In the second trial,once you crush his mirror argument,he's basically lost,and doesn't come up with another good argument after that. His citing perjury on Jean was dumb,as it never was done before,but now that it actually benefits us,it's dumb? Suuure. It's like Lamiroir in 4-3,but dumber.

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And that's Recipe for Turnabout. Unlike the previous case,this one was mostly good with a few minor flaws. But it was still very fun for me,and the Turnabout Samurai of this game. So I give it a 7.1/10. See you next time!

Hint,the next one's going to be a 3DS case where Phoenix cross examines an animal.

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Whaaa?! I'm actually getting a ranking out on time?! What is this?!

Spoiler: Prosecutor's Path, Investigations
26. Turnabout Target

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Going back to when I did Turnabout Countdown, I said that it was arguably the largest-scale first case in the series. The only other case with a shot at that award would be Turnabout Target, as an attempted assassination on a country's president is, well, large-scale. It works well in setting the tone for I2, and it also introduces the first person in a long line of connections that pretty much defines the game's main plot. And with a solid group of characters, and a surprise return of a fan favorite, this case kicks off things very well.

The crime itself changes quite a bit as you progress through the case (As with pretty much every Investigations case) and following it can be somewhat confusing at times. It starts with the presumed death of Rooke being from a failed assassination attempt, but it quickly changes into a murder on the docked airplane nearby. As it turns out, the entire assassination was staged to make the president look more powerful for his people, and his second-in-command guard Knightley was in charge of the operation. Knightley, being the jealous person he is, resented Rooke and shot him inside the plane while everyone was in panic about the assassination. And if the name Knightley sounds familiar, well, it should. Knightley is the victim in The Imprisoned Turnabout, which is quite interesting. The case itself isn't too complicated, and it introduced Logic Chess pretty well.

The characters are actually pretty good here, with no one really representing a weak link. Edgeworth and his group are great like always. Knightley is actually a pretty enjoyable villain, but he isn't special by any means. Huang's transition from manly president to old fat guy was surprising and pretty funny. Swift is pretty much a Lotta rehash, but I'd take Swift over Lotta any day. And of course, de Killer makes an appearance, which makes the case a lot better than it would be without him.

Now, after all of the praise I've given this case, why is it at 26? It mostly is just because the other 25 cases do more. Maybe it's a more interesting setting, a better defendant/accused, better villain, etc. And while Turnabout Target does a lot right, it doesn't do anything "excellent". It's just "pretty good", which says a lot about how much I enjoy the other 25 cases still left.

25. Turnabout Airlines

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The Ace Attorney series has had a lot of interesting places for crimes to take place, but this one is one of the weirdest. For one, that's a big-ass plane. But putting that aside, it really makes for an interesting case that felt somewhat empty at the end. I love what they did with it, but I think they still could've done more.

The crime itself takes place presumably in an elevator (Remember: It's a big-ass plane), and Edgeworth finds himself accused immediately by the flight attendant Rhoda Teneiro. But Teneiro isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and Edgeworth proves himself innocent pretty quickly. Then the blame shifts over to Teneiro, and Edgeworth has to prove her innocent. It was a lot of fun investigating throughout the plane, and the actual cause of murder (falling) caught me by surprise. The smuggling ring is also introduced in this case, and it's effect can't be understated as it affects every case in AAI, and also is a factor in AAI2.

The characters in this case are actually pretty damn good. Edgeworth is Edgeworth (AKA a badass) and Franziska and Gumshoe are their normal selves in their small roles. LeBlanc is the weakest, which says a lot, since he's a fairly enjoyable foreigner-type weirdo. For some reason, I really like Teneiro, and she's my favorite character in this case by far. It's pretty cool to see people besides the main group push the boundaries as much as possible to find the truth. Meele's transformation from ditzy slut to crazed smuggler was also fun to watch. It wasn't very difficult to figure out it was her though. As for Hicks, well, he's a guy...that did stuff...yeah, I got nothing.

If there was just one more foreigner witness in this case, it'd probably be higher up. Having a much more quiet, soft-spoken person would've contrasted great with LeBlanc and created another suspect besides Meele, who is pretty much the obvious choice once Rhoda becomes the defendant/accused of the case. The only other downside is that it takes away a case from Lang and Kay that they honestly needed. Having only 2 cases to develop their characters was not very smart, but it would've been difficult to fit them into this case.

That wraps up today's pair of cases. Tomorrow, the final two first cases remaining are ranked, and then we finally get to the really fun cases.
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Spoiler: SC-24
I really liked the puzzle/mystery in this case, but I didn't care much for the characters. Jean Armstrong was strange and I couldn't tell if he was just a gag or social commentary. Viola didn't feel threatening to me in the slightest with how weak she looked. You only needed to breathe in her direction and her limbs would fall off. And if you don't trust the tea (or was it coffee?), don't drink it, simple as that. Only threatening thing about her is her dad, but we don't find out about that much later. Maggey was a bit of a bitch here. I would even say she was made to be OoC simply for the little bit of drama between her and Gumshoe, and I felt genuinely sorry for the big lug. I don't really like making characters OoC for plot purposes. Anyway, the name Furio always felt really strange to me... *looks at own name* ...The guy himself was alright, though. Not fond of this type of character, but it was actually the first one I felt was done well, as he really was pretty darn threatening. Then there's Lisa whom I liked but didn't play that much of a role in the case. Kudo was alright, but I was too distracted by that nose. I did really sympathize with him for being a character no one takes seriously but ended up being completely right. And I absolutely understand his frustrations. My Lord, the number of times I wanted to throw pigeon feed at people because they wouldn't believe me is immeasurable.

Whew. That's a lot of characters. SoJ, take note.

I think the reason the games takes place in the future wasn't something intentional... In fact, I think they wanted to be pretty ambiguous about the actual year this takes place in. But they messed up and attached a year to one of the past cases or something. Might've even been the DL-6 case. They attached the current year (2001 at time of release) to the case of 15 years ago, which would make the present (for GS1) 2016.

I can totally see what you mean about the disjointed locations, and subconsciously, I felt the same. I had a lot of trouble placing these locations on my mind map. It was a bit of a mess. The park was the back yard of the restaurant, Furio's office was a neighbor of the park, and Glen's workplace was on the other side of town for some reason.
Don't ask me how I made sense of a French restaurant with a park as a back yard, because I didn't. That's probably due to this disjointed thing you talked about.

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I'm happy to see you using your 100th post on me :klavier: You're the acest of attorneys now,Nurio!

And Nurio Furio headcanon'd.

But anyway...

23,23...yes,we're having you on. Please come in,and give us a lovely performance!








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Spoiler: all the gaems
#23-Turnabout Reclaimed

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And the good old DLC case finally falls! What took you so long,friend? You might be surprised that it's not up higher,but truth be told,I don't really like this case as much as others. But that doesn't mean it's bad.Heck,it's the second best thing DD has to offer. So let's check out this astonishingly amazing aquarium together!

I actually really don't like the opening of this case. I feel that it gives off a way too similar vibe as 5-1 and 5-2-the cheesy anime cutscene,the unfunny characters,the boring investigation...it all just didn't appeal to me,and that's quite ironic,considering that this is supposed to be a fun break from the main game.Though I do recommend playing this between the second and third case.

Mainly due to some elements being REEAALLY awkward (like Fulbright and Blackquill) otherwise. And DO NOT play this right after the first case. As much as I'm apathetic to 5-2,it gives a way better introduction to the new investigation gameplay and new characters than this does. It's clear that it was supposed to be the original third case before it was swapped to DLC. But enough about what you should do.Let's continue with the story.

The story,I feel really reeks of 2-3 in many ways,but it is a slightly better version of it. The anger Rimes felt towards Orla is more understandable than Acro's rage towards Regina,for example. There aren't even any big plot holes or anything weird here (except one part where they ask you to point out something....only to put your cursor right on the answer immediately),and I do feel for the characters more here than that. The only hole I see here is the lack of an autopsy for Azura,but whatever. This applies for the mystery too,by the way.

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The gameplay is fun,if not a tad too easy. The last two testimonies were not only way harder than those,though,but incredibly hilarious. It's not overly cheesy unlike the opening. The presentation is gorgeous,but we don't even get to examine the main part,rather the boring pool. All the other 3D games at least knew to let the players examine if they wanted. At least they brought it back in SoJ.

The music here is fun and all,but the two anime cutscenes about the songs-terrible. Absolutely terrible. Cheesy in the worst way possible,and I couldn't even bring myself to look at it. I know it's supposed to be cheesy,but this is in a winceworthy way. The reminiscence theme is spectacular though,and the final cutscene was hilarious. Rime's rap is nowhere near as good as what Pees'lubn sings though. But you can't beat the master,am I right?

The characters are the Big Top characters,but better. Sasha is supposed to be the Max of this case,but less annoying and fun to be with. Upon replaying,I even warmed up to her fish puns.
Azura is a dead Bat,and Shipley is Russell. Norma I'm not sure who she's supposed to parallel,but her testimonies reminded me of Trilo and Moe's in a sense. I like how she's willing to go with the truth when it's revealed,and her motive was understandable.

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Pearl returns here,and it's definitely less forced than 5-5. But the 'return' of the Psyche Locks chronologically starts here,and I blame Pearl for charging too much spiritual energy into the Magatama,thus removing all penalties and a sense of challenge. But Herman is the replacement Moe,and though he's nowhere as emotionally complex as the latter,he's an excellent red herring. He's clearly very set up to be the killer,but then...it just turns out he isn't. The penguin in his hair was neat though.

Marlon is a fantastic version of Acro. The twist where it was all an accident was great,and paints him as a more sympathetic figure than Acro. He's just a more well rounded character,and I'm glad he got his redemption in the end. The penguins and the orca(s) are reminiscent of Regent and Monkey,and Orla even reminds me of Regina with her role in the plot. The twist with there being two orcas was beautiful.

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And that was Turnabout Reclaimed! While a good and satisfying case overall,its beginning was a bit cruddy and it was maybe too cheesy at points. It's definitely the better version of 2-3,though. So I give it a 7.2/10.

Next time,I actually kinda screwed up,so I'll be tackling two cases (?) tomorrow. See you then!

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Southern Corn wrote:
I'm happy to see you using your 100th post on me :klavier: You're the acest of attorneys now,Nurio!

Sure. Hundredth. :-P

Spoiler: SC-23
Interesting analogies between 2-3 and 5-DLC (I wrote 6-DLC again, but I caught myself this time). I never looked at the case that way, but it does make sense. I wonder to what degree this was intentional...

For some reason, the not-so-literal red herring here didn't at all convince me. I don't know what it is with SoJ and DD, but I can somehow see their lesser twists coming a mile away. And I am usually bad with this stuff. I definitely didn't see the double-orca twist coming, though, and wow, did that blow my mind. I absolutely loved that moment (just like I did in 5-2) and it sold me on the Thought Route mechanic. Sadly, for some reason, the Thought Route didn't blow my mind in SoJ. I guess the Thought Routes there didn't really introduce plot twists. I don't remember what they did in 6-1, in 6-2 it was finding a way to get incriminating evidence, in 6-3 it was a twist but sadly one I already saw coming, 6-4 was... not really twist-worthy, 6-5.1 was... unorthodox but not exactly a twist, 6-5.2 was a twist and was pretty good I admit.

Err, I digress! The twists in this case were real good... that includes the double orca and the fact that it was all an accident. I didn't see those coming, even though the evidence is right there. And that was just so satisfying to see.

I liked the characters here, though I have no idea what they were trying with Sasha. A punk aquarium performer? Huh? The puns were appreciated, though. And I am not a fan of Rhymes post-transformation, but I don't need to tell you that. (Pre-transformation, I liked him.) I can tell you that Pees'lubn's transformation was better than Rhymes's if only for the fact the latter didn't go through a physical transformation. Other than that, all good. I liked the characters! Even Pearl was done alright here (at least compared to her other appearance in this game)

As for the anime cutscenes... I feel that localization dropped the ball here a bit. I haven't seen them personally, but I have a feeling that the Japanese versions are probably less cringey. I find that in anime, singing scenes turn cringey when localized. (Though, I should mention that anime singing scenes can be awkward in Japanese too, especially if they sing the title theme or a character theme.)

Speaking of awkwardness, you mentioned seeing Fulbright and Blackquill again like this is awkward. I did feel that for Fulbright but not Blackquill for some reason. In any case, I don't think I have the screenshot anymore, but I found a contradiction with Fulbright here. I think it happens when you get a standard response when presenting evidence to Fulbright. Fulbright is troubled about "which justice to believe in" or something like that, and Athena says she can "hear the turmoil in his heart". Well, that shouldn't be possible, right?

So yeah, really loved this case for how nonsensical it appears to be, but having a pretty serious story underneath. Oh, and the great twists, of course.
I know it's a bit strange I say I love the nonsensicality of the case when I berated 6-1 exactly for that same reason with the transformation. I think it's the difference between taking a ridiculous premise and making it real, and taking a real premise and suddenly introduce something silly at the end

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Well what do you know, I caught up to SC. On to 24 and 23!

Spoiler: Apollo Justice, Trials and Tribulations
24. Turnabout Trump

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I've always loved poker. Especially Texas Hold'em, but 5-card is fun too. But one thing I've always been terrible at is the bluffing aspect, as I always pick the wrong times to fold or keep going. And now, using my incredible transitioning skills, let's talk about Apollo Justice's first case, Turnabout Trump, which involves, you guessed it, poker. Lot's of poker.

The crime isn't too complicated, but due to the unexpected villain, it's hard to predict. The victim, Shadi Smith, was brained on the head with a grape juice bottle that somehow didn't break on contact. And the only person in the room at the time, Phoenix Wright, is suspected. But thanks to some poor word choice by Kristoph Gavin, Wright opts for Apollo instead. Things are going fine, you disprove the motive to the crime, and it looks like Olga Orly, the witness, is your killer. But it's then that Phoenix suggests the possibility of a 4th person in the room, and then shit goes nuts. Phoenix accuses Kristoph, Kristoph basically drops his defense and tells Apollo to prove Phoenix guilty, Payne does nothing, and Apollo is just stuck in the middle. But in the end, he takes the right path and uses his "trump card" (the bloody ace) to get Kristoph rightfully convicted. Except, it wasn't rightful at all. Phoenix, being the sneaky bastard he is, forges the ace. Kristoph can't say it was forged, because if he did, he'd reveal himself as the killer. It creates this really awesome dynamic, as Kristoph has no choice but to watch himself get rightfully convicted through faulty means. It also sets up 4-4 quite nicely.

The characters are great, but there's a pretty noticeable lack of them. Phoenix, while I think he's done well in AJ, is a definite downgrade from his older self. Apollo is fantastic as always (I do have some Apollo bias). The Judge and Payne are the same as always. Orly is bland as hell when she's in server mode, but in pirate/gambler mode she's actually really fun, but she disappears at the end of the first half of the trial. And Kristoph...he's a fantastic villain, but I can't say too much about him just yet. If you've played AJ, you know why.

Trump kicks off AJ in a fantastic way, and it really sets the tone for the rest of the game. The only reason it sits at 24 and not higher is due to the lack of characters (Like all first cases) and the fact that it's a first case, so it's pretty easy. But it still ranks as my second favorite first case, which is quite impressive.

23. Turnabout Memories

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To finish off the first cases, Turnabout Memories takes the crown as the best of them all. It also didn't reach the top half of my favorite cases, which should say how I view first cases compared to the rest of the game. But with a phenomenal group of characters and a fun mystery to solve, it really wasn't a competition at all for me to put it here.

The mystery starts off with a very interesting intro, as the players see Phoenix "commit the crime". This is the first time in the series that the killer isn't revealed in the first minute of the case, and it's really refreshing. We then find out that this occurred 5 years ago, and Phoenix is the defendant, so we know there won't be any 2-4 bullshit happening. Things start out pretty normal, with Mia having a very similar arc to Phoenix in his first case, except she's better than he was. She stands her ground, and pretty soon she drags Dahlia on to the stand, and then she absolutely beats the shit out of her. Dahlia comes really close to getting away, but Mia instead pins not one, but 2(ish) murders on her, getting her well-deserved revenge that she never got in 3-4. It also was really neat playing through this again and realizing how significant the poisoning incident was in the long run, as it's not played up at all in this case. But with an absolutely epic way to end the case (The "If you're innocent, why not try the cough medicine?" ploy, which not only wrecks Dahlia, but Payne too.) this case's mystery is well-deserving of praise.

The characters are for the most part fantastic, as the few really, really strong ones cover up for the weaker ones. This is by far the best case Mr. Payne has had, Mia is one of the 3 best DA's in the series (Not counting Edgey), and Dahlia is...well, Dahlia. Similar to Kristoph, I won't talk too much about her until later. The weakest character here is Grossberg, who is just too gimmicky, and because he does nothing but complain about his hemorrhoids. Yes, hemorrhoids. But take him out of the case (and he's out of it for a very large chunk of it), and this cast is nearly flawless for what they had to work with.

The only reason this is sitting at 23 is, similar to Turnabout Trump, the difficulty level and the length. I'd say the mystery and characters are slightly better than Trump's, so that's why this case gets the edge. But both are very crucial to the end of the game, which is always a plus IMO. But as for the cases they affect...will they be close together, or split apart?

As for the next ranking, there's a lot of patricide, with two cases of killer betraying his/her father figure.
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I just realized that the reason Takumi made Phoenix good at poker is because he's good at bluffing *facepalm*
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By the way, Thunder84, I want to say, I do read your reviews, but I'm not really commenting on them since it's a bit redundant. I'd say the same things I'd say to SC's reviews, except in a different order
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Posts: 576

Nurio wrote:
By the way, Thunder84, I want to say, I do read your reviews, but I'm not really commenting on them since it's a bit redundant. I'd say the same things I'd say to SC's reviews, except in a different order

Oh, it's not a problem. I kinda guessed that from the get go, and I've been reading your feedback. It's all good.
Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!Topic%20Title
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mfw no f2

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Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:42 am

Posts: 3505

@Nurio Yeah,hundred posts is a huge achievement. Congrats!

@Thunder84
Well,with two posts a day instead of one,you're bound to catch up to me at some point.

And as Nurio pointed out,I also can't exactly comment on your posts due to the same reason. Sorry.
Hi, I'm Socot. But you can call me SC.

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