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Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title
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(Before anything, I want to say that I'm far from an expert on law, so feel free to correct me on any mistakes I make)

Alright, so Simon Keyes (or Sota Sarushiro) is the Mastermind of Investigations 2. I'm sure we all know that. He was one of the victims of the IS-7 Incident and was saved by Dogen, witnessed the SS-5 incident and then saved Dogen. However, from there, he was pursued by Patricia Roland, Blaise Debeste and the body double as they didn't want him to reveal what happened in that incident. So, 12 years later, Simon decided to get his revenge on all of them, by getting Blaise and Patricia thrown in jail and killing the body double and even his best friend. However, as we all know, Edgeworth stops his plans and gets him thrown in prison, which ironically is Simon's happy ending.

So why am I bringing this up?

Well, let's think about what will Simon actually be arrested for.

Well firstly, there's the fact that he masterminded the arrest of Patricia and Blaise along with the death of Jill Crane and Horace Knightley (who murdered Ethan Rooke which was a part of Simon's plan). However, as stated in game, this technically isn't considered instigating murder. There was no mention of killing, blackmail or anything of the sort. All Simon did was give information to others, which resulted in those people's murders and arrests, which can really happen to anyone. Simon can't be charged with this.

Secondly would be kidnapping. Yes, Simon can indeed be charged with this, as he kidnapped John Marsh. However, John's kidnapping was probably one of the least severe kidnappings that could happen. Simon knocked him out and brought him to an abandoned warehouse which was still rather nearby, and that's it. No ransom, no *ahem* rape, no torture, no nothing. Yes, he'll still be charged with kidnapping, but not a large charge. It would fall under second-degree kidnapping, which would result in about 5 years in prison.

I couldn't find much about Kay's situation, which was her getting knocked unconscious. However, considering the fact that no actual harm was done to her (as she was knocked out with a drug) and that her memory loss was a result of her getting startled by Jill's body, Simon probably won't get charged with this, and if he does, I doubt it'll be much. At most, 2 years.

Now for the big one. The fact that Simon murdered the body double. This is the one that got him arrested in the first place. However, let's consider the circumstances of that murder. Simon was in the hot air balloon and was flying upwards, with no malicious intent of murdering the body double. The body double, however, sends Courtney away and shoots at Simon. With both his and Kay's life in danger of getting shot, Simon drops on the body double, crushing him and killing him.

As you can see, this fits perfectly with self-defense, or justifiable homicide. While yes, this does fit perfectly with Simon's revenge plan, he had no idea the body double was going to be there and even less that he was armed. And as his life was in danger, Simon had to kill him. So, technically Simon can't be charged with murder, as it was justified. Which also means he can't be thrown in jail for it. Hell, even Edgeworth's logic and evidence prove the circumstances of the body double's death, so there's no way Simon will be charged for this.

However, that's not what Simon is getting arrested for. Not really, anyways. Simon is getting arrested because he manipulated the evidence and framed John. This can't really be denied. However, there is one huge fact that changes everything. And it's the fact that Simon wasn't in court. Yes, he lied, but so what? If he was in court, he'd be hit with perjury and forgery easily. But, because he wasn't in court, all he did was lie. Simon was not under oath and had the right to lie. Saying that John was the murderer was simply the result of his logic and it made sense. So Simon also can't be charged with perjury. Although, Simon did tamper with the evidence, which result in 3 years of jail time.

So, with all that said, if we combine the total time Simon will be spending in jail, we have about 10 years! Everything considered, that isn't bad at all. In fact, it's really good considering all Simon did and the fact that most murderers would be charged with life in jail or execution. This isn't even including Simon's memory loss in the IS-7 incident and him being pursued as a result of the SS-5 incident, which would both probably decrease his jail time by quite a bit as a result of trauma. So, let's say he'll be in jail for 8 years.

Now, let's take a look at some dates. Simon was arrested April 8, 2019. The Monstrous Turnabout, which is the earliest case in Dual Destinies, took place April 17, 2027. Which means that by the start of Dual Destinies, Simon Keyes should have already have been released from prison. Kinda amazing, actually. Congrats Simon!
Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title
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The imagination justifies the pimp

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Hooray for Simón Keyes! The best character in all of Ace Attorney :gant-jazz:
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Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title
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Of course he's the one that gets away with it all. Good for freaking him.
Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title

This! Is! SPARDA!!!!!

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Yet another reason why Simon Keyes is such a Magnificent Bastard.
Rule number one of lawyer stuff: if it's in the court record, it's gonna show up in the trial.
Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title
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Drugging is considered assault, and it is a class-B felony, punishable by up to 10 years behind bars... So that would be the likely charge for Kay being knocked out, oh, and let's not forget that he drugged two people, that's 10 years for each.
John Marsh is under 14, which means the crime is considered more severe, since he kidnapped a child, he can be charged with both child abduction AND kidnapping, which could net him 11 years for the kidnapping, and 8 years for the child abduction.
I agree that the murder of the body double would likely be considered a justifiable homicide, however as you said, framing someone else for the crime and tampering with the evidence is absolutely a crime, the framing alone would likely get him 5 years. The tampering with evidence would net him a felony charge, and could get him a 10,000 dollar fine, and up to 5 years in prison.
You claim that he couldn't be charged with perjury, which is correct, however since both Shi Long Lang and Dick Gumshoe were present, he would be charged with obstruction of justice for lying about the crime during a criminal investigation, it would likely be considered a felony and not a misdemeanor, which could land him another 10 years in jail.
Also, he technically threatened an officer when he claimed he didn't have to continue the conversation and could order the animals to knock everyone out, or take out a hidden gun, that would be about 1 year in jail and a 1000 dollar fine.
Oh, and let's not forget about the illegal wiretapping, that's another 5 years in prison... And a 250,000 dollar fine.
Also, he stole the body double's gun and was about to use it on Shelly, that would have been considered self defense, so it's likely that there wouldn't be any attempted murder charges... However, illegal possession of a stolen firearm is most definitely a crime, up to 5 years in prison for that alone.

That's all I could find based from memory alone, but there are likely more crimes than just what I named.
Those crimes alone would net him a maximum of 70 years in prison, and a 261,000 dollar fine, so I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't get away so easily, even with a good lawyer.
"There is but one last shred of cheer for a soul far beyond redemption: The bitter darkness that lies at the very bottom of this mug."
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Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title
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Kessler wrote:
Drugging is considered assault, and it is a class-B felony, punishable by up to 10 years behind bars... So that would be the likely charge for Kay being knocked out, oh, and let's not forget that he drugged two people, that's 10 years for each.
John Marsh is under 14, which means the crime is considered more severe, since he kidnapped a child, he can be charged with both child abduction AND kidnapping, which could net him 11 years for the kidnapping, and 8 years for the child abduction.
I agree that the murder of the body double would likely be considered a justifiable homicide, however as you said, framing someone else for the crime and tampering with the evidence is absolutely a crime, the framing alone would likely get him 5 years. The tampering with evidence would net him a felony charge, and could get him a 10,000 dollar fine, and up to 5 years in prison.
You claim that he couldn't be charged with perjury, which is correct, however since both Shi Long Lang and Dick Gumshoe were present, he would be charged with obstruction of justice for lying about the crime during a criminal investigation, it would likely be considered a felony and not a misdemeanor, which could land him another 10 years in jail.
Also, he technically threatened an officer when he claimed he didn't have to continue the conversation and could order the animals to knock everyone out, or take out a hidden gun, that would be about 1 year in jail and a 1000 dollar fine.
Oh, and let's not forget about the illegal wiretapping, that's another 5 years in prison... And a 250,000 dollar fine.
Also, he stole the body double's gun and was about to use it on Shelly, that would have been considered self defense, so it's likely that there wouldn't be any attempted murder charges... However, illegal possession of a stolen firearm is most definitely a crime, up to 5 years in prison for that alone.

That's all I could find based from memory alone, but there are likely more crimes than just what I named.
Those crimes alone would net him a maximum of 70 years in prison, and a 261,000 dollar fine, so I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't get away so easily, even with a good lawyer.



You still owe me 10% of your views and 30% of your comments for that post.

You are right about a majority of things, from the drugging to the kidnapping, as I've just checked. However, if we go by AA laws and not real life laws, it's questionable whether or not Simon would be charged with wiretapping, since April May got charged with it, yet Nicole didn't. Once again, obstruction of justice is also questionable considering if we took that into account; 80% of the witnesses would be in jail, whether it was a misdemeanor or a felony.

Also, I'm not sure if John being a child would change the charge of the kidnapping. If not, it'd be 5 years maximum,
Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title
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BANZAI!

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Simon is easily one of the most intelligent and cunning villains in the entire AA franchise. From what I can see a recurring theme in AA is villains/culprits putting up a harmless facade and personality (Dahlia Hawthorne, Cammy Meele, Yanni Yogi, Simon!)
In conclusion: Man he's good. What a bastard.
what a big NERD
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Simon Keyes is also the only villain who succeeded his plot and came out for the better.
Spoiler: End villains PW:AA to SoJ, spoilers just in case.
  • Manfred von Karma didn't succeed in his revenge plot. He's since died in prison and nearly all of his bad influence over Miles and Franziska has dissipated by their respective latest appearances.
  • Matt Engarde is forced to spend the rest of his days in jail, lest he be killed by the master assassin he betrayed.
  • Dahlia Hawthorne is a complete failure. She failed to keep the diamond she stole, her murder of her step-sister only succeeded because Fawles killed himself, she failed to poison Diego Armando, was caught for the murder of Doug Swallow, failed to kill Maya, and to top it off, she's dead and unlikely to be channeled ever again.
  • Quercus Alba's smuggling ring was dissolved and he was faced with criminal charges in the United States and in Cohdophia.
  • Kristoph Gavin was disbarred and lost his reputation as the "Coolest Defense in the West", and whatever was left was completely ruined by Phoenix Wright's jury trial test.
  • The phantom failed the goal of his bombing of Courtroom no. 4, which would've destroyed all remaining evidence and testimony of the events of UR-1 and anything linking it to Clay Terran (Athena, Blackquill, Junie, the meteor rock and Athena's earring). His shoddy attempt to get Athena incriminated only put him in the spotlight, and his cover was blown and he was nearly assassinated by his own employers.
  • Ga'ran Sigatar Khura'in was outed as a fake channeller and was deposed as queen, all her power taken and the laws she wrote rendered null and void.


By comparison, Simon managed to eliminate all three of the figures who were threatening his life, two of them by ensuring that they'll be arrested and the other by personally killing him, and very nearly got away with it. Sure, he got put to jail and was nearly in the same situation as Engarde, but now he's no longer alone: he's got Sirhan Dogen and a new "home". Dogen even got de Killer to back off of him.

Last edited by Aeliren on Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title

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Simon did pretty well, actually.

He will beat the murder rap by pleading justified self defense, because he was nearly killed, and did not have the ability to flee.
He is guilty of two counts of assault, though the second one would probably be subsumed in the more serious kidnapping charge. But the victim would have to press charges. Kay probably wouldn't bother. Justine almost certainly would press charges. He will do time for the kidnapping.
He definitely eavesdropped. but who knows if that's even a crime, in the AAverse. The conversation wasn't recorded. And cellphones can record legally in the AAverse anyway.
He's definitely guilty of obstruction of justice for trying to frame Marsh. He will probably do some time for that.

So maybe 10 to 20 years, i'd guess, plus he gets to stay with Dogen. And despite being such a magnificent bastard, he still actually deserves sympathy. And while he didn't completely win, he didn't really lose either.
Re: Something I realized about Gyakuten Kenji 2's villain.Topic%20Title
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I hardly even consider killing the body double a crime, since that guy was such a massive piece of garbage, but that's just me...
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