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This is the discussion thread for DGS2 episode two, The Memoirs of the Clouded Kokoro! Please use spoiler tags when discussing any plot points of the episode that haven't been officially announced.
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With everything we know about DGS-4 and DGS2-2, how do you guys feel about them together? I remember a lot of people didn't seem to enjoy DGS-4.
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So, I'd say 2-2 doesn't really affect 1-4 in hindsight, but that's not surprising given the nature of 1-4. I thought this was a much more solid case than 1-4 though. It feels very much like a case from the original trilogy at times, but it uses its setting well, it has some solid surprised they hid during marketing, and the final solution adds enough of a fresh twist to a relatively common scenario to work well.
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As an aside...
Spoiler: 2-2 villain
I really like the sick burn Viridian laid onto Petenshy.
Viridian: ……William Petenshy. “To be, or not to be. That is the question.” …wasn’t that it?
Barok: A line from William Shakespeare’s “Hamlet”, Act 3 Scene 1.
Viridian: I’ll tell you the answer to that. You don’t deserve to be.

Re: Episode two discussion threadTopic%20Title

Well, that trial sure was interesting!

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Spoiler:
To reiterate something I said in a Discord chat, the moment Petenshy woke up from his poisoning at the first Joint Deduction phase was the exact moment Takumi himself walked into frame and announced "I'm gonna blow your freaking mind and I'm not stopping" before dropping the mic and letting the game continue. He definitely pranked us all with all the promotional material for the case and it made one of the best Case 2's in the series.

And this is case 2.


As an aside, if you don't mind me asking, what's Mrs. Altamont's full name (if it's ever given)?
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
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What tracks are re-used from the first game? Is there a new objection/pursuit theme for Ryu?
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Okay, so I just got done watching this. I understood most of it, but I'm missing one key detail.

Spoiler:
So what exactly is the significance of blowing hard into the end of a gas pipe? I know the subject comes up in the second day's Closing Argument, and apparently it does something like "extinguish a fire"? I know it's how Petenshy got poisoned (poison on the end of the pipe), but the interesting part is one line Ryunosuke says at the end, when Viridian is confessing.

So, basically, Viridian poisoned the end of the lamp's gas pipe specifically because "If Petenshy was really innocent [of Duncan Ross' death], nothing would happen." As-in, Viridian set it up so Petenshy would only poison himself if he did something he would only do if he was the one who killed Ross. My guess is blowing into the pipe is somehow related to Ross' room getting gassed in the past?

The judge at the end said something about Souseki Natsume and an attempted murder charge, but I'm not sure if he means Petenshy's attempted murder charge against Souseki is getting dropped or if Petenshy is being charged with attempting to murder Souseki. This would actually make sense: Souseki had Selden's old apartment, after all.

If this is true, then I have to give props to Viridian for setting up a karmic poisoning for Petenshy while possibly prevented Souseki from dying too.


On another note

Spoiler:
The line he says during the breakdown is most likely "Frailty... [bang] Thy name is...[bang] PETENSHY! [bang] Which is amazing.

Something something please localize DGS.
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BigKlingy wrote:
Okay, so I just got done watching this. I understood most of it, but I'm missing one key detail.

Spoiler:
So what exactly is the significance of blowing hard into the end of a gas pipe? I know the subject comes up in the second day's Closing Argument, and apparently it does something like "extinguish a fire"? I know it's how Petenshy got poisoned (poison on the end of the pipe), but the interesting part is one line Ryunosuke says at the end, when Viridian is confessing.

So, basically, Viridian poisoned the end of the lamp's gas pipe specifically because "If Petenshy was really innocent [of Duncan Ross' death], nothing would happen." As-in, Viridian set it up so Petenshy would only poison himself if he did something he would only do if he was the one who killed Ross. My guess is blowing into the pipe is somehow related to Ross' room getting gassed in the past?

The judge at the end said something about Souseki Natsume and an attempted murder charge, but I'm not sure if he means Petenshy's attempted murder charge against Souseki is getting dropped or if Petenshy is being charged with attempting to murder Souseki. This would actually make sense: Souseki had Selden's old apartment, after all.

If this is true, then I have to give props to Viridian for setting up a karmic poisoning for Petenshy while possibly prevented Souseki from dying too.


Spoiler:
The gas pressure in the pipes isn't strong, so when you blow hard inside them, you'll temporarily stop the gas supply to all the connected gas pipes. So if you have a gas light on at that moment, the fire will go out as the gas supply is stopped. But this is only temporarily: once you stop blowing, the gas pressure will return, and gas will start going through the pipes again. But as there's no fire anymore, the gas will just pour inside the room, instead of being lit on fire (compare to a modern electric light: if you don't switch off the light before swapping the light bulb, the light is technically still on). Petenshy used this method to kill Ross, and tried the same with Soseki, in order to get Selden's room. Green suspected Ross was killed, and poisoned the pipe entrance to see if she was right.

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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BigKlingy wrote:
Okay, so I just got done watching this. I understood most of it, but I'm missing one key detail.

Spoiler:
So what exactly is the significance of blowing hard into the end of a gas pipe? I know the subject comes up in the second day's Closing Argument, and apparently it does something like "extinguish a fire"? I know it's how Petenshy got poisoned (poison on the end of the pipe), but the interesting part is one line Ryunosuke says at the end, when Viridian is confessing.

So, basically, Viridian poisoned the end of the lamp's gas pipe specifically because "If Petenshy was really innocent [of Duncan Ross' death], nothing would happen." As-in, Viridian set it up so Petenshy would only poison himself if he did something he would only do if he was the one who killed Ross. My guess is blowing into the pipe is somehow related to Ross' room getting gassed in the past?

The judge at the end said something about Souseki Natsume and an attempted murder charge, but I'm not sure if he means Petenshy's attempted murder charge against Souseki is getting dropped or if Petenshy is being charged with attempting to murder Souseki. This would actually make sense: Souseki had Selden's old apartment, after all.

If this is true, then I have to give props to Viridian for setting up a karmic poisoning for Petenshy while possibly prevented Souseki from dying too.


On another note

Spoiler:
The line he says during the breakdown is most likely "Frailty... [bang] Thy name is...[bang] PETENSHY! [bang] Which is amazing.


That's actually pretty amazing!
Spoiler: Case 2 Villains
I think Viridian Green and William Petenshy are some of my favourite villains. I LOOOOOOOOOOVVVEE William Petenshy's theme.

Laugh every day!
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CourtroomShenanigans wrote:
As an aside, if you don't mind me asking, what's Mrs. Altamont's full name (if it's ever given)?


According to the AAWiki, using the video, it's Valve Altamont.
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So I read Ash's overall review of the game, and the point he made about some of the cases in this game feeling like they were supposed to be part of episodes from the first seems like it'd apply here. I feel like this and DGS1-4 were originally supposed to be one single "Adventure of the Clouded Kokoro" case, and might have worked better that way. Well, DGS1-4 would have. I really like this case, but can't help but feel it could've easily been Day 2 of DGS1-4 with a bit of modification. They both have the same defendant and mostly the same cast, after all.

Here's my theory on how they may have been originally connected:
Spoiler: Trials and Tribulations-2 spoilers
The first day would've ended with a "The Stolen Turnabout" style twist, with Souseki found Not Guilty of Viridian's stabbing, but implicated in Willian Petenshy's poisoning.


On how a connection could improve the original "Clouded Kokoro":

Spoiler: DGS1-4 spoilers
The most disappointing thing to me about Clouded Kokoro was that, in the end, Viridian's stabbing was all one big coincidence. Viridian Green had no relation to the one who threw the knife at all, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's a testament to how irrelevant the stabbing was that this case is able to go out of its way to avoid spoiling who stabbed Green and why.

BUT, here's how there could have been at least a slight connection: the love letter Joan found that led her to mistake her husband for cheating was Duncan Ross' love letter to Viridian Green. (This may actually be what really happened, I'll need to read that part of this case again) This could've given the Garridebs a bit more development too and more reasons to want to hide the crime: Joan's stabbing Green was a total coincidence, BUT it's someone she had a motive to want dead (the woman her husband might have been having an affair with), so the police might not have believed her if she'd said it was an accident.

Also, cut Pat and Laura entirely. Their subplot only really existed to lengthen the case and make the crime more complicated, which wouldn't be necessary if it was only Day 1 of a larger case.


On how it could've improved this case:

Spoiler: Obviously DGS2-2 spoilers
One of the few issues I have with this one is that Petenshy being the true villain was pretty obvious, even with Viridian Green's involvement, due to how huge a presence he is in the case. He dominates both trials and everyone you talk to in investigations mentions him at least once. It's not long before the illusion that he's going to be the corpse of the week is broken, at which point it's obvious it's going to lead to something big.

If, however, the two cases were one, Petenshy's involvement is a bit less obvious, since he's just a minor joke character in Day 1 with no relevance to Viridian's stabbing. Yes it's also falling into the series cliche "minor character in Day 1 gets a lot more prominence in Day 2 and turns out to be the culprit", but I feel that still would've given the reveal more buildup than "the entire case revolves around this guy, of course he's guilty of something".

If you were going to cut anything from this case, maybe the ice coin gas theft subplot? It's Decargo and Mrs Altamont's link to the trial, but she was having him investigate the forced gas leak incidents anyway, so his presence could've been about that instead. The reveal that the ice coins were made from Souseki's tea does link in to proving the tea wasn't what was poisoned, but I feel that could've also been done another way. Really the main plot purpose the ice coins serve is Ryunosuke proving that the victim isn't trustworthy so neither is his testimony, but if this was only a single trial day you probably wouldn't need that either.


Anyway, just some random musings.
Something something please localize DGS.
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I started this up the other day. Currently right before the first trial. God, I really do need to improve my pacing on DGS2, I keep forgetting this exists.

Spoiler: 2-2 (so far)
This is, I'll admit, a pretty great case so far already. I think I was enjoying it more than I was expecting to with the reunion with Viridian and her mysterious boyfriend in the photo. The joint reasoning was pretty great as well. But then the victim woke up and my level of enjoyment doubled. Good grief this was cleverly hidden during the marketing.

Of course now that he's gotten up, this takes an interesting turn. Poor Natsume. Always caught up in pseudo-murder trials where the victims turn out to be alive anyway.

As for theories on who attempted to kill Petenshy...well, he either tried to kill himself due to his extreme poverty, or Viridian did him in because that would make for an interesting case. Probably not Decargo though.

I will admit the most frustrating part about this is how Ryuu totally just ignores the stuff about the gas pipe concentration lol. I'm betting that's how the victim was poisoned or something.

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Spoiler:
I'll admit I was a bit wary of this case because it had "clouded kokoro" in the name and I didn't like DGS1-4, but I suppose one of the good things about this case was that it gave that case at least somewhat of a reason to exist. But as has been said earlier in this thread, both cases would probably benefit from them both being in the same game, even though it's kinda neat how small things like Petenshy's and Mieterman's (?) random little cameo in DGS1 got new meaning here. Still, this one's placement is pretty odd. Here is a case that apparently took place between DGS1-4 and DGS1-5 without our knowledge and that was never referenced by the characters. I feel a bit left out...

I loved the moment when the "corpse" suddenly rose from the table and it worked especially well with the fluid kind of animations these games have. Yet another thing that reminded me of Ghost Trick, which made the moment even better for me. It feels like Takumi had some freedom to play around with the AA formula and conventions for the DGS games, and it pays off.

It also works well to have the victim testify and actually being the one who accuses the defendant. Good to see the victim from DGS1-4 as well since she was unconscious for the entirety of that case and had virtually no presence at all for it and instead ends up being very important for this one. So the victim of that case tried to kill the victim of this case while he in turn tried to kill the defendant of both cases... Hm. And poor Souseki found himself smack in the middle as the accused of both incidents. As a sidenote, I keep misreading "Souseki-san" as "Souseki-chan" but that kinda suits him. And speaking of Souseki-chan, two of the funniest moments in this case for me was during the first part of the joint reasoning when Sherlock's deduction takes its first wrong turn and Souseki gives this look right into the "camera", and then when they descibe his actions that night and illustrates it with his silhouette moving through the backgrounds while doing his different poses.

It feels a bit incomplete for me right now since the last hour of the case isn't subbed yet so I had to make do with a comment that summarized the gist of it, but even so I liked this case a lot; it was solid with well made twists and turns to it and had both dark and funny moments.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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Wait till you get to the actual climax though lol, that's something else.
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The actual climax of what? The case or the game?

Also, one point in this case almost feels foreboding for something else later on...
Spoiler: DGS2 case 2 and 3
Namely a "dead" person being quite alive and kicking.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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Going for Miles wrote:
The actual climax of what? The case or the game?


Well I haven't actually finished the game, but presumably both :basil:

Quote:
Also, one point in this case almost feels foreboding for something else later on...
Spoiler: DGS2 case 2 and 3
Namely a "dead" person being quite alive and kicking.


I wonder… :p
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Hah... yeah for sure. I've already been bawling over a scene in which I had no idea of what anyone was actually saying, so I'm quite curious about where things will go from here. The wait is too muuuuch.
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Just finished this case:

Spoiler:
I liked it enough, pretty decent, even if it feels like a filler case. At least it's good filler. The jury was so dumb, just changing their votes cos 'Ryu is trying to mislead us' then letting him change their minds anyhow. But hey, that's the jury for you, and it's completely in-character too. I like the victim from last time coming back and actually having more relevancy this time besides just walking under the window at the wrong time.

And the dog collar and the mystery Sherlock is withholding, hm, intriguing. The B emblem makes me think Banjiiks, but who knows...
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Lone wrote:
Just finished this case:

Spoiler:
I liked it enough, pretty decent, even if it feels like a filler case. At least it's good filler. The jury was so dumb, just changing their votes cos 'Ryu is trying to mislead us' then letting him change their minds anyhow. But hey, that's the jury for you, and it's completely in-character too. I like the victim from last time coming back and actually having more relevancy this time besides just walking under the window at the wrong time.

And the dog collar and the mystery Sherlock is withholding, hm, intriguing. The B emblem makes me think Banjiiks, but who knows...


Spoiler:
Yeah, I really liked the twist in this case with how Viridian actually was Petenshy's killer and had a proper personality. Petenshy is also crazy and I liked taking him down and showing that Selden's treasure couldn't be uncovered by him anyway. Plus, his breakdown was good. This case overall was alright, too, but I just have a lot of trouble writing about it. It's just...decent, I guess.

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