Gender: Male
Location: Pennsylvaina
Rank: Medium-in-training
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 380
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
I dunno, I for one enjoyed all the cases in the PW series, even the filler ones, like the highly criticized 2-3. To be honest I actully liked 4-1 and 4-2 to a degree, but frankly I feel like the writers did the exact opposite with this game that they did with the originals. In PW1, 2 and 3 they made a 'meh' first case, and as the cases continue they get better and better until the final case which blows you away. AJ starts out with an epically awesome first case but falls on it's face about halfway through and dies by the final one.
As I said it's not that I hated the filler cases it's just that I didn't like them as much as the main plot ones and I felt like I was dragging through the filler cases just to get to the really good ones I couldn't wait to see. With GS4 I didn't really feel that way I actually enjoyed the filler cases as it really developed Apollo and Trucy's relationship as teammates and the characters in the filler cases didn't annoy me half as much as the one's from the first three games. Most of the one shot side characters from the first three games were in my view very annoying.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Ah it's cool man.
glad things are cool then.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
But it's not just his skill that I care about, I also want to care about his character. Why did he become a lawyer? Why is he so concerned with helping people? Couldn't they had found a way for Apollo to bring this up and have it relate to the trials in the game? I wanted to connect with Apollo like I connected to Phoenix when I found out the truth in 1-4 about the classroom trial. I didn't connect to Apollo at all in this game, it felt like he was just there to exist.
You have to remember though that the first game was a one shot game and that Edgeworth did tie into Phoenix's past. Outside of Lamiroir no one really tied into Apollo's past so it's understandable that at the moment there's no reason for Apollo to divulge his reasons as to why he became a lawyer. We can assume he became a lawyer because he wanted to help people, but nevertheless I feel that before Apollo's story comes to a close it will be explained. Not everything has to be explained in the first game after all.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
You kidding? I write fan fiction as a hobby, and while I'm not perfect at it, I for one try to avoid creating the horror that is a Mary-Sue, so I know what not to do when making one. Girl with mysterious, deeply significant past and unique abilities. Never in the wrong mood. Outstanding personality. Likes all, is liked by all. No problems whatsoever. Criminally cute. I admit she makes me smile, but I can't care for her as a character.
Maya a Mary-Sue? Hardly. She's a far more developed character than Trucy. Throughout the first game you can see her struggling with feelings of being useless, and the sadness of her family's tragic past. Maya is also far from perfect. She can be a pain in the neck at times, and perky to the point of being childish, but it's quirks like that that make me enjoy her character moreso. She's more believable then Trucy. Take in 1-2 when she heard her sister's voice over the phone recording, that really touched my heart and made me really appricate her character for the first time. I never got that sense with Trucy.
And I'll be saying this until I'm blue in the face but Trucy is just Maya with a brain and without the the damsel in distress persona Maya had throughout every single game. Besides how was Trucy finding out about her fathers death any less strange than Maya's reaction to her mothers death? They both used that "I knew they were alive somewhere but I have to be strong for the people I care about" excuse.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Okay so maybe I exaggerated a bit but you have to admit they spent more time pimping out his rock star gimmick then ever reflecting on his character. In doing so, they left out all the details that we would actully care about. Why does he care about the truth so much? Does this conflict with what occurs when he has a personal stake in the matter, like in case 4-3 or 4-4? We never find out about any of it. Also, the chances for his personal issues over facing Apollo, who put away his brother are never taken.
I thought it was obvious that the flashback case led to many of Klaviers reasons as to why he is the way he is now. That case left a lot of personal issues in him especially his own suspicions towards his brother, and you could see he was suffering through it through 4-4. All he wanted were answers to his questions, and instead of brooding on it like Edgeworth did for 15 years Klavier actually did something about it. Again as he stated he was tired of the angst scene and as it shows he's more of a laid back type of character than a heaping pile of angst.
Also lets face it Fransizka wanted to beat Phoenix for personal reasons not revenge against her father. Klavier probably wanted to test Apollo not get revenge for what happened to Kristoph and it seems like unlike the first three prosecutors Klavier actually does his homework for cases. Also we've been learning since 2-4 that defense attorney's and prosecutors should work together towards finding the truth so why can't that be true now? Klavier's just a laid back 2-4 Edgeworth without all the angsty angst.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Yes I admit he is nasty, conniving and diabolical... but he's also ridiculous.
His motive for everything he did was just pathetically stupid. He's jealous that Zak fired him and hired Phoenix instead? That's why Kristoph ruined his life? Seriously? Now you might try to tell me, 'Well, we don't get to see into Kristoph's mind, and probably never because of the black psyche locks." And that's what makes him fail. I wanna see WHY he's like this.
Compare it to Manfred von Karma, whom we see over and over speak of his perfectionist ways, and even freaked out when he couldn't guess how long a trial would last. It let me connect to his character, and made his motive more understandable by the end.
It's all about reputation so I don't see how it's as stupid as you say it is. Considering you brought up Manfred he shot a guy because of a penalty I mean how can you not say that's just as stupid a reason? Besides I think it was pretty obvious how evil and mentally disturbed Kristoph was. You didn't even figure that out about Manfred until he tasered you.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
That may as well been what happened, since the new characters feel like slightly tweaked, less developed cardboard cutouts of the original cast with more gimmicks slapped onto them.
And I don't think that's fair to say because they are interesting and unique new characters with lots of room to grow and really we're judging them based on the first game. I think it's unfair to hate the entire AJ series based on that especially if your main reason for hating it is because Phoenix is a hobo and his friends didn't show up every five seconds for some fanservice. Give it another game or two before judging it.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
If cases 1-4, 2-4 and 3-5 is any proof, Phoenix's friends would go to hell and back for him. Trying to say Edgeworth didn't try to help him because he never heard about it is bull. You seriously don't think Edgeworth wouldn't had heard about the famous defense attorney Phoenix Wright losing his badge from forged evidence, Gumshoe calling and telling him, or at least checking in on him from time to time and finding this out? Even if they have their own lives, I'd suspect they would at least try to keep in touch with each other.
Also in the flashback case in 4-4, we basically get zero reference to his friends, even when it's in his point of view. He dosen't even mention Mia by her name, and just calls her "my mentor". It feels like a bunch of new writers who don't know jack about the old cast did this game.
The point is that even though Phoenix's bonds with his friends are strong they can't always be there to bail him out of everything. Maya and Pearl possibly couldn't leave Kurain because of their responsibilities, Edgeworth and Fransizka have their own careers and maybe couldn't break away from them to help out, Gumshoe probably had lots of other cases to work on, and it's not like Larry would have been any help.
Or we can just assume that while Phoenix kept them in the loop of what was going on he didn't want their help to crack this case. After all this was a personal fight for him he had no reason to drag his friends into his own mess. But hey at least they got mentioned here and there so it's not like they don't exist.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
I don't expect Phoenix to tell Apollo his friend's lifestories, but then again think about how Apollo is a part of Phoenix's life now, and you'd think he would eventually meet or see pictures of people he's connected to. Maybe they'll do it in GS5, but we can't be too sure of that. Regarding not telling Maya about the whole thing with Edgeworth, he pretty much hated Edgeworth for leaving the way he did, and he never wanted to bring it up. I highly doubt he has any grudge with Maya, Edgeworth or the others these days.
Oh, and Tomoshibi, I hate to tell you how to post things on this forum, but this topic's about what we hate about the game. I understand you like the game and all and want to defend it, but there's no need to come in here and try to denounce everything we hate. There are other topics for that kind of thing.
I'm not worried because I feel they'll do it in later games.
And that's all I'm doing is defending the game. I can't do anything about it if you hate it. All I can really say is that you should give it more of a chance. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything if that's what you're getting at.