Case Maker 3

[Ghaleon von Karma]

Assuming the worst has happened? They shoot you in Texas for that.

Other than that, it is not fair for other people who have makers of their own to come here and bash on other people's case makers. Just don't do it. It makes you look sleazy for trying to drag fan base away to your makers. If he doesn't show...fine. It happens, we move on. Just don't come in here and start slamming other people's work ethics because they haven't appeared. If he does come back and gives out info, it looks really stupid on your end for your assumptions.

If you don't approve of this, that is fine. Continue improving your work to match everyone else to increase your fan base. Attacking someone else's credibility when we don't know the actual facts of his life, is wrong and disgraceful. You do well to remember that.

[Donald Serrot]

I just have to ask you where PWLib is.
I saw posts weeks ago saying it was gonna be released in a few days...
Still waiting.

I'm most excited about Mechabowser's because it actually has an editor.
I'm not a technical programing minded person, something that takes care of that for me is great! Something to look forward to!
But getting no news is sometimes better than empty promises.

I don't know what is going on in his life, neither do you. And that doesn't give you a right to criticize him.
So instead of spreading negative crap how about you try to encourage him! Maybe he's having a bad time right now, he'll come and take a look from time to time, you don't have to log in to check, just to post.
Maybe some encouraging words will help him. I like to keep an optimistic attitude.

And I'm getting the impression that all programmers have attitude issues. Because all I ever seem to hear from you guys is attitude. It's always pick pick pick. Pick at this pick at that.
I'm getting sick and tired of it! I don't even know why I come to this section of CR anymore!

Edit: I'm gonna come out and say I'm in a pissed ticked off mode right now. Ghaleon Put it better than I could have.

[KSA_Tech]

I'm just showing facts and giving my opinion about what I know.

I'm not promoting other CMs and kicking CM3. For me, you can keep believing in it. That's what you decided to do.

I NEVER said that CM3 will or won't be out. Don't put words in my post. I commented MB's behavior, so stop it.
Fans are a pain to talk to, they will defend it by all means. They are sometimes blind to the facts. Facts are everything that defines what we know.

I don't want to drag you or Donald out of CM3's fandom. So, think it for a second: Did I mentioned any FACT that is a LIE?
False Evidence isn't my game, and will never be. I conclude things by logic and express my options about things using my conclusions, but I NEVER say something like "yeah, it won't be EVER completed."

"There is no valid assumptions without proof. With facts you can only give opinions."

I have no proof of MB giving up or anything about CM3, so I can't assume anything. And I didn't.

[KSA_Tech]

Yeah, PWLib isn't out. If I had an editor to take care of the tutorials part, it would be in the community hands. Try writing a tutorial on programming enviroments and you will get the idea of how hard things are. AT least I let the community know about advances and new stuff. Don't drag PWLib into this anymore. The talk has nothing to do with the casemakers.

I went off track on the tuto assumption part because I never actually DID tutos before.

I mentioned about the rest on the other post. If you think it's ok for a programmer to leave fans in the dark, ok, I won't say anything else.

Sigh... you say i'm picky... Do you like those who promise and doesn't deliver? Seems so. Why did YOU pick on PWLib's late release schedule, and not on CM3's lack of MB?

[Ghaleon von Karma]

I was wondering: Mecha left you CM fans in the dark in two occasions: CM2.1 and now CM3 (witch he didn't even release a SINGLE screenshot).

Why do you ppl keep expecting something from someone who doesn't seem to care about his fans?

edit:
Just like lee said, period. He CAN appear out of nowhere.

Let's take some example: PWLib and PyWright can hit the table and way "Take That!" about released media: both exist and are begin worked on. Both respect the fans/users since both programmers appear frequently on CR too and reply to the community. Kanada Kid's Case Editor was put on hold and properly notifications were placed. So KanadaKid respects his fans, and he visits CR often too. In other hand, CM3 has nothing of that. No released media, no programmer visiting CR recently, no "on hold" message.
That's disgraceful: show something and then let fans in the dark (that's my own opinion as a programmer/developer, nothing to do especifically with MB and CM3).

No one is having to say anything. I am not a fan of this case maker, per say. I haven't used any other case maker than what I already have used.

However, if you double check this quote...you can see some rather aggressive tactics in here that can be taken the wrong way, as you have mentioned both your editor and others vs. this one as well as the people who work on it.

Be careful how you post things. It may not sound like you are accusing or promoting, but if you look open minded, you will see how you might have erred; and it may not have been intentional.

Now, I think it would be best if we all just calm down and just leave this be. We will see in the future what fortunes are in store if any.

[KSA_Tech]

In my "programmer code of honor", one of the top "disgraceful" behavors is just leaving fans in the dark, so I attack that point as it is a matter of honor to me.

So i really wanted to know why in such a situation, people still try to support something. For me, CM3 out or not isn't an issue. That's MB's issue.

So now that I clarified it a bit, I think this "path of accusing" can be deleted. It's not about CM3. It's about something else.

[Ghaleon von Karma]

Just be wary, not everyone has the same "code of honor" as you...and of course, not everyone is a programmer. So be careful...this thread is about CM3, not MB...so as long as you understand that; there will be no problems.

[KSA_Tech]

Yeah, but I won't stay silent about something I believe in. Everyone can do what they please, but I will comment out of it concerns some of my honor code statements.

And MB's behavior touches CM3 in a really strong point, so it concerns a bit over CM3 too, yes.

Anyway, let's do as usual and wait for the future to show us what will happen.

[Lee Ji Hoon]

We are trying to encourage him. All your nay saying isn't gonna help.
And did you ever think that maybe he *gasp* actually has a life? Or that he's doing this in his free time?

That can explain it taking a long time to make.
It can't explain the fact that he hasn't given a single post to even say "I'm busy with stuff right now so I've had to put this project on hold" or anything like that.

There has been no intention here to promote other case makers on any basis except for one: Their existance is proven. Every single one I've seen except this one. Nothing more. I'm not attempting to compare them on the grounds of quality - simply on the grounds of existance, or at least proof thereof.
You want an editor? KanadaKid's has source code available, a guide on how to compile it, and it has an editor of sorts - there you go, there's your casemaker with editor.
You want one that exists and is full featured (or close to it)? PyWright.
You want one that requires no work from you (in a good way)? You've got CaseMaker 2.1, it's probably the best you're going to get from this guy so take it or leave it.
And if for some reason, none of those, nor PWLib, CourtEngine or anything else out there suits your taste... Multimedia Fusion, RPG Maker, Game Maker, etc are your friends. Or Flash, if you're good with that.

There are plenty of alternatives that more than do the job, I don't see why you're wasting your breath on one that simply doesn't look like it's going to appear.
MechaBowser has simply come back, in the height of the casemaker "war" (not really a war, but you know what I mean), announced a case maker, posted about a few updates, and left, just to get a bit of attention once again.
To be honest - and I'm certianly not saying this IS definately the truth - I'm suspicious as to whether there ever WAS a Case Maker 3, in any form.

You're all more than welcome to continue following this case maker 3 religion, but I'm gonna go atheist on this one.

[Jesswee]

Personally I don't really care how something comes about, just the end product is what concerns me xD

As long as I'm still alive anyway :p

[Donald Serrot]

Lee Ji, it's been dropped, let's not stir that up anymore.
If you don't want to try to encourage Mecha to keep going like we are please don't post. It just causes unneeded trouble.

Mecha, if you see this please know we are pulling for this and would like to know how you are doing.

[Super Judge Bro.]

What Don said. Let's all just calm down people.

I mean, there could be a number of reasons why Mecha went absent and didn't announce anything about CM3. Maybe his computer got broken (hopefully not), maybe he's moving to a new place and his internet provider won't help providing the new place with internet (that happened to a friend of mine), or something else.

The important thing is to calm down.

[KSA_Tech]

Lee, don't assume that MB won't release CM3. There is a chance he won't, of course, but it isn't even close to 100%.

And about a case maker with editor, eventually there will be one or more new ones with editor support, 100% guided by it like CM2.1 is.

Some advice: Don't be stuck and biased with CM3, try other CMs when they are released too. You might be surprised that an editor isn't the only easy way to deploy a PW game. Also giving support to OTHER CMS (PyWright, PWLib, CourtEngine, etc) too is good, even if you don't/won't use them. It's a community, remember. If one support the community as a whole, things get better. Bias and extreme fans = trouble, always.

[FlashPoint]

Yep, same with KSA.

[KSA_Tech]

I normally talk to the other cms programmers on MSN, so this explains my "almost no posting" in other cms posts. saluk doesn't have msn, for example, but I recall commenting in his post.

[Donald Serrot]

I'm gonna say one last thing and then I'm out of here.
Not everyone can program, some people are just incapable of doing it no matter how much help they have.
It is a known fact. So of course they are gonna go to ones with editors, it's the only thing they can actually use.
It's not the program I care about as much as the features.
I've done my research, looked at some of the other topics and even the Wiki to see what there was.
Don't think my choice was a blind one, and don't think I don't look at the other programs.
But you are talking to a guy with two problems,
1) No programing skill whatsoever.
2) A guy with extremely low space for programs.
So I have to gather my info and decide what is going to work best for my needs.
I don't have the freedom to mess around with every single program as it comes out. So I have to go by the features.
And I don't even plan on doing a whole lot! It's supposed to be an enjoyable hobby that I'll do at my leisure. I don't want to have to try to understand a programing code that I'll only use a couple of times just for the fun of it.
I'm not a hard core programmer, I'm not even remotely a programmer. I don't make lines of code for kicks. So I'm not gonna want to use something like that to make something just for the fun of it, something that only a few people will ever use.

And on a side note, each time you post in this topic it makes you look bad. You are either badmouthing people and programs or talking about other programs. This topic isn't for that, it's for Mecha's Case Maker 3.
Yes, there has been a couple of other things and even something nice, but for the most part it's just picking at Case Maker, Mecha, and the people who want the program.

And the only reason I continue to post in this topic is because I posted here once and it comes up in my post list.
I don't particularly like this section of the forum thanks to the way I constantly get treated.
I'd think you'd want to treat people nice so that they actually want to check out your product.
That is my top code of honor, that you actually treat people nice. And while suddenly leaving without a word isn't that nice at least it's better than going around and making people out to be bad guys just because they don't see your way.
I'm trying to help you here. Going into someone's topic and questioning the people who still wait is wrong. It makes you look bad and makes people not want to have anything to do with you.
If you want us to check your program out just wait. I'm sure there will be people who will come check things out when yours comes out, but doing things like this just makes that list go down.

I'm gonna end here. I'm done with this crap. We aren't gonna go anywhere if this continues so just let it drop.

[KSA_Tech]

Sigh.. I just defended CM3 against Lee's words and you say i'm picky... (just like when Mecha ignored me, I also defended cm3, so who is real evil one there?)

I just said "TRY", gosh. That as just a word, not an order. I just suggested something and you say "oh, it looks like it's not in favor of mecha, so i'll hit it!".

Hey, Don: stop with this Mecha love. When HE ignored ME, I don't RECALL you SAYING anything.

And that question stuff was closed. Case closed, why did you HAD to reopen it? Sorry for looking to it in other perspective.

And Don, how many times do I have to put this: stop posting about me "promoting PWLib". I always talk about ALL casemakers.

Really, being the PWLib developer makes some people ignore the idea behind my words. If it was other someone who said about "TRY OTHER CMS" i'm sure it would get a different reply.

PS: my last post on this topic. ever.

[BigFish]

Arrrrgh, this is getting ridiculous. Look at the [i]facts]/i]: There's no proof CM3 even exists (except for a logo), and Mecha stopped posting in this topic a while ago.

Judging from these facts, most people would assume the project has been abandoned. There's nothing biased about that. If he himself dosen't say otherwise, then it's fair to assume this is true.

[Donald Serrot]

I sent this in PM and I just want to publicly apologize for my actions.
I don't care that much at all about Mecha, like I said, it's just the features. The editor is all I want.
I felt like I was under attack and tried to defend myself as I saw fit. And I think I overdid it big time.
And probably I was in the wrong for making such a big deal about it.

So I'm gonna apologize. I have nothing against the other programs besides the fact that they don't currently have what I need.

I don't care if you post or not, but please accept my apology for my actions. They were wrong and now looking back I realize it.

[Maelstrom]

Wow.. this spiraled into some serious e-drama.. <<;

Anyway, for all we know Mecha could be working hard on it but unable to access the internet or something.. or on the otherside, he could have given up on this for the time being and could be enjoying life. Whatever the case, posting in here constantly and having arguments won't speed up his return (note: this comment isn't directed at anyone in particular, nor an attempt to add fuel to the fire). Lets just wait patiently, perhaps we'll get an update on this.

On a side note, I won't be using CM3, I am however looking forward to it's release, as more choice is always beneficial to us end-users. :]

[FlashPoint]

MechaBowser could have been working on 3.0 all this time, you never know; he might just show up and release it tomorrow. If he does, I'll be a very happy guy. :D

[Cravat Lover]

Hey mechabowser, yyou were mentioned in Ngamer magazine, well done! PM me when you finish the beta for this and ill try it out!

[Sabrina Ellis]

I'm crossing my fingers for a release soon, or at least an update! I still have the original Case Maker, I think. xD

[Steel Samurai]

This topic has gone silly. Hope that Mechabowser replies soon

[Banjooie]

Alright, since this fight apparently isn't going to end, therefore I feel absolutely /no/ shame in commenting.

This is a Phoenix Wright forum, so... Let's examine the facts.

1: Mecha Bowser has released probably the most complete Phoenix Wright editor yet.

2: A bunch of other people near completion on their own case makers, many of which are claiming they will make up for the flaws in Mecha Bowser's design.

3: Mecha Bowser immediately claims he's going to make CM3, and after several arguments all over the forum, vanishes into space.


This does not prove he is not working on it. In fact, there is not in fact a course of action that /can/.

So if we can't prove that MechaBowser is or isn't working on it, and we all know that, what are we trying to prove?

Seems kind of obvious to me. We're attempting to prove/disprove that Mecha's /character/ is such as to let us make a reliable prediction.

So....a quick search of his posts reveals...not much, actually. Mostly promises that he's going to release it, how awesome it's going to be...

and then this interesting little tidbit from DDRKhat

I never said MechaBowser had to make a case maker, it's entirely his choose, if he chooses to make it then fine by me.
I'm going more for a personal victory for the hassle that he gave me when I was beta testing for him on his 2nd case maker, which as we know was never finished because he decided he got bored.
So yeah, you're writing posts to make me seem like the bad guy.... You have no idea how much of a jerk this guy was to me.
Oh and Believe me, I know about the hardships of being a coder, I am one.

Alright, so here we have something that can prove Mecha is unreliable. No? Let's see if this fellow has any credibility!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1513

Let's look at the old thread for the previous case maker, in which DDRKhat...makes a variety of useful comments regarding the beta, and gets shot down at every turn. Interesting.

In fact, he seems to be remaining pretty upbeat throughout all of this. I'm not going to read 17 pages, though, so this is where you try to find my weakness.

Find something that proves DDRKhat is full of it, or sit content that MechaBowser is the John Romero of PhoenixWright Casemakers.

[Lee Ji Hoon]

Isn't going to end? No one had said anything for a few days when you made that post...

Also, PyWright is more complete than CM2.1 IMO... it may not have some advanced features that CM2.1 may have, but PyWright is more complete in terms of basic features, as far as I can see.

[Donald Serrot]

All I can do is give you two a facepalm.

Listen. I still have faith in Mecha. But I'm open to alternatives for the time being.
I say leave this to encouraging Mecha to finish, not debating if he's gonna or not or even talking about his character.
This is the CM3 topic not the Mecha topic, not the PyWright topic, the CM3 topic.

Until CM3 comes go try something else somewhere else. Don't make unneeded posts here.

[Ollie]

Alright, since this fight apparently isn't going to end,

The fight has been over for about a week.

And since I have no ill will towards anyone in this topic, nor anything to contribute, here's wishing MB good luck. We're, eh, rootin' for ya.

[MechaBowser]

Uhm, I'm not entirely sure what has happened in the latest posts, but I'm almost done with the first release of CM3.

Oh and if it's about how inactive I've been, it's because I'm about to graduate, and jees guys, that's more important than any internet application, seriously.

Anyways the only thing I really need to make is the DS/GBA switch, then I'm pretty much set.

[Lee Ji Hoon]

Wow, guess I was wrong then.
Although does anyone else think that him finally showing up within several hours of PWLib's release is just a bit /too/ in line with what some people were saying, to be called just a coincidence?

[killer0018]

Nice.

[BSRaven]

All I can do is give you two a facepalm.

Epic smiley is epic. /offtopic

Looking forward to seeing Case Maker 3 Mech, and here's hoping you do well with the whole graduating thing.

[MechaBowser]

Okay so I took some time to read all the posts that are previously posted, and I'd like to note that I'm doing CM3 for free, while I'm working on other commercial projects. Sure, I may not be as fast as any of the other Case Makers, but mine is simple and easy to use, if you want something powerful in a short time, don't expect this to be the first.

[Lee Ji Hoon]

No one (or at least, not me) was criticizing how fast you are or aren't completing it. We were criticizing that you didn't even so much as make a post to state "I'm busy with other things right now, I won't be able to post updates on this for a while", but instead, just went off and left this appearing to be abandoned. Combine that with what happened with 2.1, and you can kinda see what people were thinking.

[MechaBowser]

If I had posted "I'll be busy with other stuff" people would instantly assume that I had canned it, but I get your point.
Anyways, we're running graduations pretty late in Denmark, so it'll still be a while, even though I've finished like half of the exams.

[Lee Ji Hoon]

I don't think so, as long as you had stated that you still intended to complete the project but just would be unable to work on it (or even just unable to post about updates) for a while.
Anyway, we know what's going on now so no need to worry about this anymore. Just let us know next time before you disappear. ^_~

[Detective L]

OH...EM....GEE.....

Spoiler:

:zap: !!!

Mechabowser returns... In a world of glitchy software, one man/woman will dare to put in a editor.

[KSA_Tech]

I said I wasn't going to post here, but sometimes things go differently.

I don't believe in coincidences. Yeah, something is off here.
Mecha has been away for ages, and shows up right after PWLib is out... Really, something is not right. It's too much of a coincidence.

[Lee Ji Hoon]

Guys, don't start another argument.
Time will tell whether or not CM3 comes out, and if so, whether or not it's any good.
Let's just drop it until then.
Besides, more case makers is a good thing. The only ones we have now are CM2.1, which is incomplete, PyWright, which is also incomplete, and PWLib which, while complete except for saving, a lot of people are having trouble running. For all we know, CM3 could end up being the answer to these problems.

(Yeah, I know I started the last argument, but that's no real reason not to step in and stop a second one from coming.)

But MechaBowser: Please try to let us know if you're disappearing for any reason again, if possible.

[BigFish]

Uhm, I'm not entirely sure what has happened in the latest posts, but I'm almost done with the first release of CM3.

Oh and if it's about how inactive I've been, it's because I'm about to graduate, and jees guys, that's more important than any internet application, seriously.

Anyways the only thing I really need to make is the DS/GBA switch, then I'm pretty much set.

Yay, he's back! But, DS/GBA switch? Isn't that going to take a forever to make?

Also, you could have at least posted 'brb' before you left. :\