Ace Attorney Fan Card Game : Present Evidence

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:11 am

LordQuadros

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This looks like it has a lot of potential. One thing, if I may contribute: In your opening post, you said you were looking for a new name for the Events, since Event has been overused. How about Incident? It's a bit more dramatic than Event, but we are talking about court here.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:37 am

Slezak

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Hmm... Some courtly words for "event"... Maybe "action", "happening", or "occurance"?

Thank you for reading. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:04 am

Phoenix223

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I've put together some artwork that might be useful; tell me what you think:

Illegal Evidence

Alternate art for Bridge to the Turnabout

( ^ Equals Three parody ^ I am not in any way affiliated with RWJ )

<--- Please click

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:59 pm

Gerkuman

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You need some ideas? I have some you might like the look of ^_^:

Winston Payne
Type of Card:MP
Number of Cards: 40
Mounting Confidence: For every consecutive Case you win, you are allowed to pick up an extra card per turn. Status ends when you lose a case.

Reggae Detective
Type: Event/Incident
Effect: Adds a credibility point to one witness for every two pieces of evidence in your hand or two credibility points for four pieces of evidence.
Quote: "Every case is gonna be air-tight..."

Lotta's Photo
Type: Evidence
Effect:Adds +1 Testimony to each Witness unless Lotta Heart is the Opposing Witness.

Lotta Heart
Type: Witness
Testimony 2, Credibility 5
Effect: Over-Excitement: If your opposition is Phoenix Wright, then your testimony is reduced to one. If your Opposition is Fransiska or Manfred Von Karma, your testimony is increased to three.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:46 pm

EricaP

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Howabout...a Steel Samurai Pack!

The Steel Samurai
Will Powers
Dee Vasquez
Sal Minella
Penny Nichols
Wendy Oldbag
Maya Fey
Event Card: Whoops (Dee pushes Hammer over the fence)
The Vasquez Mafia
Event Card: Nooo Manuel!
Event Card: Sleepy Time

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:47 pm

Dilbert719

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Card suggestion:

Turnabout Memories
Case
If this case is the first one flipped, search your deck for the card titled Dahlia's Locket, put it in your hand, and shuffle your deck. If it is not, draw two cards.

(Granted, I don't know what Dahlia's Locket does, so that part gets to be played with to balance this card, but w/e.)

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:56 pm

Gerkuman

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Dahlia's Locket
Type: Evidence
Effect: 2X the testimony power of one witness for one turn. Includes all previous status effects. (Ie, Maya (2) + Lottas Photo (+1) + Dahlia's Locket(X2) = 6)

Yes, this could be a very powerful card in the right hands...

Spoiler:

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:54 am

Pickens

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EricaP wrote:

Howabout...a Steel Samurai Pack!

The Steel Samurai
Will Powers
Dee Vasquez
Sal Minella
Penny Nichols
Wendy Oldbag
Maya Fey
Event Card: Whoops (Dee pushes Hammer over the fence)
The Vasquez Mafia
Event Card: Nooo Manuel!
Event Card: Sleepy Time

Yes, I intended for there to be cards that went a long with Will Powers and the Steel Samurai. Cody Hackins, Maya, Penny, etc. I have something else planned for Dee though. She and her Henchmen are going to sync with Furio Tigre and Viola Cadaverini for a Mobster deck type.

Gerkuman, thanks for the suggestions I actually rephrased a few of them and used them! They'll be seen below. Dahlia's Locket might not work though, it seems as if it'd be able to win cases fairly easy. I'll be sure to see what cards similar to it would do though.

Phoenix223, Thanks for the images, I was going to make a card like Illegal Evidence but I had no idea what the image would be! You saved me a ton of time!

Slezak and LordQuadros, "Incident" sounds the best out of those choices. I'll think about it and change it at a later date.

Dilbert719, that may actually work for Turnabout Memories, I'll look into it.

And now I come, baring new cards!

Spoiler: Game 3 Case 5 Spoilers

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:29 am

Slezak

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By the way, sorry to say, but it's "Lotta Hart", not "heart". Common mistake, though. Just wanted to point that out.

Now, onto the new cards: They all look great. "Reggae Detective"... I wonder exactly what that means? Does the Detective like to sing Reggae in the shower when no one is around? Haha... Anyway, I can't wait to see what else you have planned. Oh, and I almost forgot my (not really) signature phrase! I'll be watching this one...

Thank you for reading. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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Excellent source of puns.
Refrigerate after opening.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:26 am

Dilbert719

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Slezak wrote:

:holdit:
By the way, sorry to say, but it's "Lotta Hart", not "heart". Common mistake, though. Just wanted to point that out.

Now, onto the new cards: They all look great. "Reggae Detective"... I wonder exactly what that means? Does the Detective like to sing Reggae in the shower when no one is around? Haha... Anyway, I can't wait to see what else you have planned. Oh, and I almost forgot my (not really) signature phrase! I'll be watching this one...

Oh, Reggae Detective is one of the best parts of the series so far.

Spoiler: T&T Case 5

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:36 am

Slezak

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I knew about THAT! What I meant was why it was called "Reggae" detective!

Thank you for reading. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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Refrigerate after opening.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:00 pm

Dilbert719

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Because he's singing those lyrics to the tune of "No Woman No Cry" (and possibly other songs, since I only recognize clips here and there) by Bob Marley. Now, why that particular card is called Reggae Detective, and not another card, that I can't tell you.

Oh, and perhaps I'm an idiot and just missed it, but while I understand that Credibility has to be reduced to zero to ruin a witness, what exactly does the Testimony value do? I'd try making more cards, but I'm still kind of shaky on how everything interacts with everything else.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:24 pm

Gerkuman

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Testimony is how you defeat the other witnesses. It's the attack points to Credibility's HP ^_^ And now here is more ideas I came up with!

3-2
Luke Atmey
Type: Witness
Testimony 3, Credibility 6
Double Jeapody: If his credibility reaches zero when the opponent's witness is Ron Delite, or a when Mask DeMasque has been played; his credibility is restored to 3 (One use only)

Ron Delite
Type: Witness
Testimony 2, Credibility 6
Don't Ignore MEEEE!: When the credibility is two or less, his testimony doubles in power and all Negative status effects cannot affect him.

Mask DeMasque
Type: Evidence
Allows you to look through an opponents hand, and swap one of your cards with one of his.

Expensive Love (Picture of Desiree)
Type: Incident
The opponent must pay an extra two cards for each card they use. If the opponents witness is Ron Delite, an extra four must be played, instead of the two.

Hasty Cover-up (Adrian with Urn)
Type: Incident
Removes a random card from your oppenents hand, but you must lose (a/two) Credibility Point(s)

3-3
Victor Kudo
Type: Witness
Testimony 2, Credibility 4
Apologetic Testimony: When this witness' credibility has run out, the next witness gets an extra +1 to their testimony

Jean Armstrong
Type: Witness
Testimony 2, Credibility 6
The Amazing Mirror: All Status Effects of the opposition are mirrored. (I.E: An Opponent's Mask Demasque card would let you look at his hand and swap a card, instead of them doing it)

Twin T set
Type: Evidence
Stops all of the Status effects of the opposition for two turns.

Dramatic Bluff (Gumshoe bursting in with Evidence)
Type: Evidence
Adds 2+ To testimony for one turn only. Adds 4+ if the opposing witness is Furio Tigre.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:13 pm

The Sandwich

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Dilbert719 wrote:

Because he's singing those lyrics to the tune of "No Woman No Cry" (and possibly other songs, since I only recognize clips here and there) by Bob Marley.

It's a medley of Three Little Birds and No Woman, No Cry.

On topic: Wow Pickens, the new design for the cards is fantastic. I'll be watching this for sure. Especially when you do the Furio Tigre card. XD

fuck

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:11 am

Gourry

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Just an idea: An effect to balance Dahlia's Locket could be discarding the witness after some turns...

Spoiler: 3-4

Oh, and I look forward to seeing more of this!

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:32 am

Dilbert719

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Suggestion for an alternate win condition series:

Wendy Oldbag - 4
Elderly, but Active
Testimony: 6
Credibility: 1
Occupation: Security Guard
Personality: Neutral
Gender: Female
If three different Elderly, but Active witnesses zero opposing witnesses' credibility, you win the game.

Marvin Grossberg - 3
Elderly, but Active
Testimony: 2
Credibility: 5
Occupation: Defense Attorney
Personality: Good
Gender: Male
If three different Elderly, but Active witnesses zero opposing witnesses' credibility, you win the game.

Yanni Yogi - 1
Elderly, but Active
Testimony: 1
Credibility: 3
Occupation: Pasta Chef
Personality: Evil
Gender: Male
If three different Elderly, but Active witnesses zero opposing witnesses' credibility, you win the game.

Victor Kudo - 2
Elderly, but Active
Testimony: 3
Credibility: 2
Occupation: Unemployed
Personality: Good
Gender: Male
If three different Elderly, but Active witnesses zero opposing witnesses' credibility, you win the game.

---
Also, another case:

Turnabout Big Top
Case
When this case is flipped, reveal two unflipped cases at random, and treat them as though they were just flipped. Your opponent may do the same with two of his unflipped cases. Then hide all cases revealed in this fashion.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:51 am

ArcanaFang

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I love this Idea...but here's what I suggest for the "Event Card"

An incident is an event of usually minor importance: an amusing incident in a play.

An occurrence is something that happens, often by surprise: His arrival was an unexpected occurrence.

By definition, Occurrence fits better, although Incident sounds more "Law-Form" for this game...but how about...

leaving it Event, even though it HAS been used to death...it fits better for what your covering, a court manuver wouldn't be an Incident, an Objection, for a lack of a better word...is an event in iteslf. It's not an Incident lol.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:35 am

Slezak

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Yes, and when I think of "incident", I think of the "DL-6" and "SL-9" incidents.

Thank you for reading. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:40 pm

Pickens

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Thanks for your suggestions guys. Sorry I haven't updated a lot of this game; I've been fighting a pretty nasty cold lately. I have made two cards though.

Sorry about the Mask DeMasque, I already had him written ='/

Also DL-6 and SL-9 will be cases.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:19 pm

Maz Medias

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And in my first post on these forums, I will offend the regulars by proposing radical changes in their system.

Three stats, ladies and gentlemen - three stats, measured from one to ten.

Charisma: The ability to get one's points across persuasively.
Case-Building: The ability to construct a strong, defensible case.
Compassion: The ability to connect with other living beings (namely, witnesses) and more easily coax from them useful testimony.

Let me advise strongly against making the Main Personality so trivial as to only determine deck size with a generally inconsequential ability tacked on. In fact, I propose the abolition of the variant deck size. It has been described as a two-edged sword; however, one edge is far sharper than the other. One needs only to look at any other TCG to see that even in those systems which use the deck as both a card source and a life counter, card quality always trumps life. As such, I propose that the VDS be replaced with a universal deck size of sixty, as per the industry standard while replacing the use of deck size as a life counter with a Case Strength value.

Case Strength is analogous to "Life Points" in similar games. It is gained or lost in small increments. The standard starting value is 5, modified up for characters with high natural Case-Building (von Karma) and lowered for inexperienced or especially weak Case-Builders (young Edgeworth). Though I especially like the idea of having face-down cases, I do not believe it should be a win condition. Instead, I propose that each player bring a "side deck" of cases to be randomly drawn from over the course of the game. Each of these cases functions as a zero-sum game of Case Strength - the winner gains a point and the loser loses one. A player wins the game by gaining a Case Strength of 10 or reducing the opponent's to 0. Some Incidents or Witnesses may have a non-zero-sum effect on Case Strength.

Allow me to offer examples of the tri-stat MP proposal and the Case Strength proposal.

Quote:

Phoenix Wright [Turnabout King] - CS 5
Charisma: 8
Case-Building: 4
Compassion: 9
[Turnabout]: When your case strength is 3 or less, Phoenix gets +4/+4/+4.
---
Maya Fey [Spirit Medium] - Witness
Testimony - 4
Credibility - 8
[Channeling]: When you lose a case where Maya Fey is a witness, you may discard her. If you do, return a Witness card from Contempt to play.
---
The First Turnabout - Case
To Win: The lawyer with higher Testimony wins the case.
Reward: 1 Case Strength

As for the other proposed systems, they all look excellent to me, and I apologize if my demeanor has come off as heighty or superior.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:01 pm

PoisonInkbottle

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You have my interest. I will be keeping an eye on this thread.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:21 pm

Pickens

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Maz Medias wrote:

And in my first post on these forums, I will offend the regulars by proposing radical changes in their system.

Three stats, ladies and gentlemen - three stats, measured from one to ten.

Charisma: The ability to get one's points across persuasively.
Case-Building: The ability to construct a strong, defensible case.
Compassion: The ability to connect with other living beings (namely, witnesses) and more easily coax from them useful testimony.

Let me advise strongly against making the Main Personality so trivial as to only determine deck size with a generally inconsequential ability tacked on. In fact, I propose the abolition of the variant deck size. It has been described as a two-edged sword; however, one edge is far sharper than the other. One needs only to look at any other TCG to see that even in those systems which use the deck as both a card source and a life counter, card quality always trumps life. As such, I propose that the VDS be replaced with a universal deck size of sixty, as per the industry standard while replacing the use of deck size as a life counter with a Case Strength value.

Case Strength is analogous to "Life Points" in similar games. It is gained or lost in small increments. The standard starting value is 5, modified up for characters with high natural Case-Building (von Karma) and lowered for inexperienced or especially weak Case-Builders (young Edgeworth). Though I especially like the idea of having face-down cases, I do not believe it should be a win condition. Instead, I propose that each player bring a "side deck" of cases to be randomly drawn from over the course of the game. Each of these cases functions as a zero-sum game of Case Strength - the winner gains a point and the loser loses one. A player wins the game by gaining a Case Strength of 10 or reducing the opponent's to 0. Some Incidents or Witnesses may have a non-zero-sum effect on Case Strength.

Allow me to offer examples of the tri-stat MP proposal and the Case Strength proposal.

Quote:

Phoenix Wright [Turnabout King] - CS 5
Charisma: 8
Case-Building: 4
Compassion: 9
[Turnabout]: When your case strength is 3 or less, Phoenix gets +4/+4/+4.
---
Maya Fey [Spirit Medium] - Witness
Testimony - 4
Credibility - 8
[Channeling]: When you lose a case where Maya Fey is a witness, you may discard her. If you do, return a Witness card from Contempt to play.
---
The First Turnabout - Case
To Win: The lawyer with higher Testimony wins the case.
Reward: 1 Case Strength

As for the other proposed systems, they all look excellent to me, and I apologize if my demeanor has come off as heighty or superior.

That logic isn't always true. First, the deck in this game isn't a life soure, it's the resource, the only way it's going to become the major life source is if you're playing against mill, which I have introduced to a very small degree. Secondly, some of the most successful decks are smaller ones because of their increased consistency. Even in Dragonball Z, where the lowest deck size is 50 and the highest is 85, the 50 card deck can still compete due to their ability to draw better than the 85 card deck. Things like Combat enders (which I intend to include) are drawn into fairly easily and act as a way to stall a bit more easily against the larger decks. I don't intend to change the resource/life system until something proves to be wrong with it in playtesting. I DID have Sideboarded energy and a life system in place at first, but I decided against it because I'm tired of it because every random card game that comes out now has it.

Right now, the main way of winning is flipping 5 cases that you're using (Cases can be chosen out of any of them that I make, and their effects range from generic ones like "Shuffle 5 cards from your discard pile into your deck" or more specific ones to counter decks you fear.), making your opponent's deck reach zero cards, and the alternate "Spirit" win condition, which is making your Kurain mediums channel X number of spirits (probably some where around 5 or 6). Nobody really uses a good version of the prize system, since what you draw is always random. This is my way of making it a strategical mechanic as opposed to a random one.

Since testifying against your opponent's witness is pretty onesided right now, there will be a "Counter-Testimony" mechanic that allows a ready defending Witness to expend. You compare the Testifying Witness' stat to the Defending witnesses' stat. If the testifying witness' stat is higher, the defender takes the difference between the two in damage to their credibility. If they're both the same, no damage is taken. If the defender's testimony is higher, the damage is prevented and the testifying witness takes damage equal to the difference between the two stats.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:10 pm

Maz Medias

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Pickens wrote:

That logic isn't always true. First, the deck in this game isn't a life soure, it's the resource, the only way it's going to become the major life source is if you're playing against mill, which I have introduced to a very small degree. Secondly, some of the most successful decks are smaller ones because of their increased consistency.

Smaller decks are always more consistent. This is why I think deck sizes that change by MP are a bad idea - the MPs with the smallest decks will run rampant in the metagame. In order to balance MPs with higher deck size requirements, one would be forced to give those MPs more powerful abilities than those with smaller deck sizes. This, in turn, causes a considerable risk of completely over-powered abilities being needed to balance huge (85+) deck sizes. Centering the metagame around abilities so powerful can cause a strong "for or against" bias that limits the number of viable archetypes.

Quote:

Even in Dragonball Z, where the lowest deck size is 50 and the highest is 85, the 50 card deck can still compete due to their ability to draw better than the 85 card deck. Things like Combat enders (which I intend to include) are drawn into fairly easily and act as a way to stall a bit more easily against the larger decks.

This is interestingly exactly the opposite of what is necessary. Smaller decks are quicker, more agile, better "curved" and more efficient than larger decks. Therefore, larger decks benefit more from "stall"/"control" cards.

Quote:

I don't intend to change the resource/life system until something proves to be wrong with it in playtesting. I DID have Sideboarded energy and a life system in place at first, but I decided against it because I'm tired of it because every random card game that comes out now has it.

DBZ, as you have cited, does not have a "life point" system - nor does the Zatch Bell card game which, while short-lived, was well-designed. I am not sure what you mean by "Sideboarded energy".

Quote:

Right now, the main way of winning is flipping 5 cases that you're using (Cases can be chosen out of any of them that I make, and their effects range from generic ones like "Shuffle 5 cards from your discard pile into your deck" or more specific ones to counter decks you fear.), making your opponent's deck reach zero cards, and the alternate "Spirit" win condition, which is making your Kurain mediums channel X number of spirits (probably some where around 5 or 6). Nobody really uses a good version of the prize system, since what you draw is always random. This is my way of making it a strategical mechanic as opposed to a random one.

I feel that allowing each player to choose what happens as they approach their win condition will cause the game to become highly swingy. The player who achieves a case win first will flip their most powerful or controlling case, causing it to be easier for them to flip another and harder for the opponent to flip even their first. While a momentum-conducive mechanic is clearly appropriate for a game featuring the Turnabout King, an effective 'auto-win' for the individual who takes an early lead would push the tempo of the game even further towards the early game. Do not think, however, that I fault you; upon consideration, I believe that the "set 5 cases and win with them" mechanic is very doable and very original if great care is taken to make their effects relatively supportive, as opposed to proactive or aggressive.

Quote:

Since testifying against your opponent's witness is pretty onesided right now, there will be a "Counter-Testimony" mechanic that allows a ready defending Witness to expend. You compare the Testifying Witness' stat to the Defending witnesses' stat. If the testifying witness' stat is higher, the defender takes the difference between the two in damage to their credibility. If they're both the same, no damage is taken. If the defender's testimony is higher, the damage is prevented and the testifying witness takes damage equal to the difference between the two stats.

This is an excellent mechanic. It is similar to the lovely combat math in Magic with even more tension.

However, I still support the addition of stats to MP to increase their impact on the game. It also opens up much-needed design space, with Incidents representing different 'maneuvers' that would no longer have to be MP-specific. For example, something Phoenix-flavored like "Press, Press, Press!" could be used by any MP with, say, 6 or more Compassion. This allows players more decision in deck building, rather than having character-centric decks building themselves.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:26 am

Slezak

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I agree. I don't want to have it set up so it's "Okay, here's the Phoenix Wright deck, here's the Godot deck, here's the Edgeworth deck" wherein all the cards are meant for a specific MP and that MP only, I want to have a variety of cards that, like the above poster has stated, work well with some MP's with higher numbers of a particular stat so we have some choice in our decktypes. You could be the "Presspresspresspresspress!" Phoenix Wright that applies the tension until the witness cracks, or you could be the "Hit 'em hard with decisive evidence" Phoenix Wright that relies on finding direct contradictions and, if that isn't the case, then a press would come in handy. By allowing variety in the card choices, we can use the MPs as a basic framework and apply our own style and flair to it.
High Casebuilding: Favors those that rely on evidence, both circumstantial and decisive, witness' testimonies, and don't really care about swaying anyone with bluffs, they go for facts, facts, facts!
High Charisma: Favors those that use what they are given to sway the crowd in their favor. They rely more on the persuasive tactic and don't really care about facts. They do somewhat, but in the end, their opinion is what matters and it is their job to see to it that everyone eventually holds that opinion.
High Compassion: The social side of the triangle, those people rely heavily on the gathering of information and building up a big friends list. They rely moderately on evidence, but mostly use it to gather more clues. These are also the "press 'em until they crack" people that know what questions to ask and what buttons to push to get what they want.

So the summary I've built from this idea is:
Casebuilding: Evidence++, Testimony+, Persuasion-, PressingN
Charisma: Evidence-, TestimonyN, Persuasion++, Pressing+
Compassion: EvidenceN, Testimony-, Persuasion+, Pressing++

Does that sound about right or did I totally screw up somewhere?

Thank you for reading. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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Refrigerate after opening.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:55 am

Maz Medias

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You have grasped and expanded upon my proposal perfectly. I look forward to the quality of design to be found here.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:20 pm

Dilbert719

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Maz Medias wrote:

Pickens wrote:

That logic isn't always true. First, the deck in this game isn't a life soure, it's the resource, the only way it's going to become the major life source is if you're playing against mill, which I have introduced to a very small degree. Secondly, some of the most successful decks are smaller ones because of their increased consistency.

Smaller decks are always more consistent. This is why I think deck sizes that change by MP are a bad idea - the MPs with the smallest decks will run rampant in the metagame. In order to balance MPs with higher deck size requirements, one would be forced to give those MPs more powerful abilities than those with smaller deck sizes. This, in turn, causes a considerable risk of completely over-powered abilities being needed to balance huge (85+) deck sizes. Centering the metagame around abilities so powerful can cause a strong "for or against" bias that limits the number of viable archetypes.

The balancing factor, as I understand it, for larger decks is that they can play higher cost cards more readily and more often. With decking being a viable win condition, a 40 card deck would be very consistent, but likely couldn't afford cards with more than 1 or 2 "casting cost". A 75 card deck, however, could regularly and comfortably play 3, 4, and 5 cost cards, because they have more deck space to work with. The tradeoff between consistency and power is, if the numbers are crunched correctly, used effectively in every game. (It's the reason Tinker, Machine Head, and RecSur were all capable of winning Magic championships: Machine Head was straight up fast, Tinker was remarkably powerful, and RecSur was capable of switching between being the consistent deck and the powerful deck depending on the matchup.)

Quote:

Even in Dragonball Z, where the lowest deck size is 50 and the highest is 85, the 50 card deck can still compete due to their ability to draw better than the 85 card deck. Things like Combat enders (which I intend to include) are drawn into fairly easily and act as a way to stall a bit more easily against the larger decks.

This is interestingly exactly the opposite of what is necessary. Smaller decks are quicker, more agile, better "curved" and more efficient than larger decks. Therefore, larger decks benefit more from "stall"/"control" cards.

Again, the "pay off your deck" mechanic mitigates the need for stall cards in the larger deck, since you have the resource to play anything you want right there. The smaller decks' inherent advantage, using Pickens' system, is neither too strong nor too weak in a vacuum, relative to the inherent advantage of the larger decks. It's entirely a matter of how the cards themselves are constructed.

Quote:

I don't intend to change the resource/life system until something proves to be wrong with it in playtesting. I DID have Sideboarded energy and a life system in place at first, but I decided against it because I'm tired of it because every random card game that comes out now has it.

DBZ, as you have cited, does not have a "life point" system - nor does the Zatch Bell card game which, while short-lived, was well-designed. I am not sure what you mean by "Sideboarded energy".

Honestly, I don't know what he meant by that either. Unless he's referring to the mechanic in Bleach where your resources are in a separate deck from your action cards, and you get to choose whether to play cards from there or draw from your real deck every turn. (It's like games of Magic where your land is shuffled into a different deck, and you choose whether you want a land or a real card.)

Quote:

Right now, the main way of winning is flipping 5 cases that you're using (Cases can be chosen out of any of them that I make, and their effects range from generic ones like "Shuffle 5 cards from your discard pile into your deck" or more specific ones to counter decks you fear.), making your opponent's deck reach zero cards, and the alternate "Spirit" win condition, which is making your Kurain mediums channel X number of spirits (probably some where around 5 or 6). Nobody really uses a good version of the prize system, since what you draw is always random. This is my way of making it a strategical mechanic as opposed to a random one.

I feel that allowing each player to choose what happens as they approach their win condition will cause the game to become highly swingy. The player who achieves a case win first will flip their most powerful or controlling case, causing it to be easier for them to flip another and harder for the opponent to flip even their first. While a momentum-conducive mechanic is clearly appropriate for a game featuring the Turnabout King, an effective 'auto-win' for the individual who takes an early lead would push the tempo of the game even further towards the early game. Do not think, however, that I fault you; upon consideration, I believe that the "set 5 cases and win with them" mechanic is very doable and very original if great care is taken to make their effects relatively supportive, as opposed to proactive or aggressive.

This is something that, again, is playtest-dependent, and if something gets out of hand, cards can be made, or rules adjusted, to control the effect. (Perhaps something like "for every case your opponent has out flipped, at the beginning of your turn, choose one: draw a card or shuffle a card from your 'graveyard' into your 'library'.") I'd want to see more before making a judgment about how swingy the mechanic is.

Quote:

Since testifying against your opponent's witness is pretty onesided right now, there will be a "Counter-Testimony" mechanic that allows a ready defending Witness to expend. You compare the Testifying Witness' stat to the Defending witnesses' stat. If the testifying witness' stat is higher, the defender takes the difference between the two in damage to their credibility. If they're both the same, no damage is taken. If the defender's testimony is higher, the damage is prevented and the testifying witness takes damage equal to the difference between the two stats.

This is an excellent mechanic. It is similar to the lovely combat math in Magic with even more tension.

However, I still support the addition of stats to MP to increase their impact on the game. It also opens up much-needed design space, with Incidents representing different 'maneuvers' that would no longer have to be MP-specific. For example, something Phoenix-flavored like "Press, Press, Press!" could be used by any MP with, say, 6 or more Compassion. This allows players more decision in deck building, rather than having character-centric decks building themselves.

There is definitely some merit to that possibility, because it provides natural limitations (and more variety in terms of alternate face cards.) I'd probably use the capacity sparingly, only for things like determining who can play what cards, and giving players the ability to add to their stats. In fact, that'd be a nice bonus to put on a case, since you'd need to win at least one case without access to some cards in your deck, but once you win one, you have bigger cards that can be played.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:58 pm

TexasBBQ

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This sounds good. I hope you finish this.

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Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:00 pm

Pickens

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Dilbert719 wrote:

Quote:

I don't intend to change the resource/life system until something proves to be wrong with it in playtesting. I DID have Sideboarded energy and a life system in place at first, but I decided against it because I'm tired of it because every random card game that comes out now has it.

DBZ, as you have cited, does not have a "life point" system - nor does the Zatch Bell card game which, while short-lived, was well-designed. I am not sure what you mean by "Sideboarded energy".

Honestly, I don't know what he meant by that either. Unless he's referring to the mechanic in Bleach where your resources are in a separate deck from your action cards, and you get to choose whether to play cards from there or draw from your real deck every turn. (It's like games of Magic where your land is shuffled into a different deck, and you choose whether you want a land or a real card.)

Yes, that's what I meant, this is how a MP looked in my original draft of the game:

The 3 symbols on the right side represented different types of land, but instead of only being able to run X amount of land that was printed on the card, you just chose which ones increased each turn, so the printed values really only mattered early game, which is why I decided against that resource system.

The mechanics are going to stay as they are right now until something turns out wrong in the Beta I intend to make to playtest with. I'll be sure to release an Magic Workstation patch so anyone who wants to test can.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:47 pm

TexasBBQ

Tex is ready for Christmas.

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Can I test the beta? This game looks easy as pie! Also I think event should be objection.

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Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:06 pm

Maz Medias

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TexasBBQ wrote:

Can I test the beta? This game looks easy as pie! Also I think event should be objection.

Thing is, not all events are objections. I strongly support "Incident" just because it's unique and powerful.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:58 pm

TexasBBQ

Tex is ready for Christmas.

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What about Hold it! It's strong and can startle opponents.

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Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:09 pm

Maz Medias

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TexasBBQ wrote:

What about Hold it! It's strong and can startle opponents.

I move that playing an Incident card requires a player to announce "Hold It!", "Objection!", or "Take That!".

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:25 pm

TexasBBQ

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I don't think so. Incident isn't that strong and unique. I'd go with Cross Examination or Turnabout.

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Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:45 am

Iban

Got his Psychology degree in Borginia

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How about...

Card: Produce Evidence
Investigation team provides you with two pieces of evidence(?).

Quote: Hey Mr. Phoenix Wright!!! His alibi collpases with this evidence product!

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:57 pm

TexasBBQ

Tex is ready for Christmas.

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Nice idea Iban! How about...

Evidence: Wiretap
An April May you control can let you look at the opponents hand.

April May
Occupation: Bluecorp Employee
Personality: Evil
Gender: Female
If one of your witnesses is Redd White get a wiretap if in your hand or deck and play it. If the opponents main personality is Male +1 testimony. If main personality is female -1 testimony.

Husband of lolipop.cat and brother of Xero Wright.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:15 pm

Pickens

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Well, I've made new cards, Mobsters!

Spoiler: Case 1-3

Spoiler: Case 3-3

Thanks for the suggestions TexasBBQ, I was wondering what to make the "Look at your opponent's hand." card, wire tap is a perfect fit.

As for Iban, that effect is similar to Missle's, but I do intend to make other cards that search for evidence, so that may be one =')

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:01 am

Slezak

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Suh-WEET! New cards! Mobster cards at that. This is looking fabulous so far and I can't wait to try it out!

...I don't have any new ideas to suggest at this time, but I'm sure I'll think of something soon.

Thank you for reading. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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Excellent source of puns.
Refrigerate after opening.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:06 pm

TexasBBQ

Tex is ready for Christmas.

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I'm not sure what else whould be in the game. Maybe we can do...

Spirit Channel
Any spirit medium you control can channel a discarded witness to your hand.

Maybe. Depends really. It's Pickens choice anyway!

Husband of lolipop.cat and brother of Xero Wright.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:15 am

Gerkuman

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I'd like some way for Udgey to appear in the game. He wouldn't be an MP, witness or evidence, and I'm not sure if the incident name fits him either. But we can't leave him out.

Re: Ace Attorney Fan Card Game

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:15 pm

Dilbert719

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We could probably work Udgey in on a series of cards (and I dunno if Pickens wants to be adding new card types, but w/e) with the card type "Ruling," that when played would either support or undermine evidence or testimony. For example, the card "Objection Overruled" could have the effect of canceling a Turnabout card (My vote for the event/action card type name) just played. The card "A Triple Decker", on the other hand, could increase one witness's testimony score and add a cost to any card effects played on that witness for a turn.