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Kid bullied, and charged with a FELONYTopic%20Title
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For exposing them:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/disabl ... g-bullies/
Plus the school supposedly erased the recording.

Fuck the school, fuck the judge, fuck the bullies.
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...illegal recording of their actions. Since they didn't know, they are without permission, so of course it's not admissable in court. What the hell did you think this is, the AA-verse, where illegally obtained evidence is all that actually exists and should matter? Second, the mother telling the authorities just undermines the child's attempt at authority and taking matters into his own hands. Third, that child is "developmentally disabled" so you already know that nobody would believe his words to begin with.

See, this just points out that everybody is all about fighting against mobbing, but nothing gets done. Also, it should tell the kid that recording things isn't gonna help. You go to a doctor, you record the bruisings, you learn martial arts or similar and if push comes to shove, you slam a :flowsers: -ing pencil into their eyesockets! :dahlia:

That last one ought to give them some kind of message

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CatMuto wrote:
...illegal recording of their actions. Since they didn't know, they are without permission, so of course it's not admissable in court. What the hell did you think this is, the AA-verse, where illegally obtained evidence is all that actually exists and should matter? Second, the mother telling the authorities just undermines the child's attempt at authority and taking matters into his own hands. Third, that child is "developmentally disabled" so you already know that nobody would believe his words to begin with.

See, this just points out that everybody is all about fighting against mobbing, but nothing gets done. Also, it should tell the kid that recording things isn't gonna help. You go to a doctor, you record the bruisings, you learn martial arts or similar and if push comes to shove, you slam a :flowsers: -ing pencil into their eyesockets! :dahlia:

That last one ought to give them some kind of message

C-A


....Cat there's so many things wrong with this post it's difficult to start on.

So I guess I won't, I'll just ignore this one.



Kid's got my sympathy, hope his appeal goes well and his mother sets the Parent's Board on the school for this.
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Jesus, these kind of stories dig up a ton of bad memories for me, a few years ago i was bullied to no end, name calling and stuff taken. i asked the teachers to do something about it but they never did, it was so bad that i couldn't take it any more, i stabbed one of the students in the arm with a sharp pencil, and beat up another one so bad she had to go to the hospital.

Hell i was sent to court for this, i got off the hook because my dad's defense attorney proved that they deserved what they got.

I sympathize with this kid.
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If I was a young student and getting bullied, best believe I would go with my Instinct and punch the bully right in the balls or grab a chair and beat him with it.
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....Cat there's so many things wrong with this post it's difficult to start on.


*shrug* It's the truth. He obtained his "evidence" illegally, so the court has every right to not let it count. And prove to me that society wouldn't be dubious of a kid already with mental handicaps. And as my mother said when I told her the story of this kid being bullied, "Pff, just means the parents are incompetent" to which I agree. Only a doormat would let themselves be bullied.

Or are you honestly telling me you think the bullies have every right to bully that kid?

Quote:
i stabbed one of the students in the arm with a sharp pencil, and beat up another one so bad she had to go to the hospital.


Hah! Yes, that's how you do it! *applause*

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I disagree, I don't think more violence is necessarily the answer or the truth and I actually imagine if they are willing to charge him with a felony for gathering evidence (illegal or no) they'd probably give him a worse penalty for stabbing someone in the eye as per your suggestion Cat.
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As I told my mother, "I'd rather get into trouble than be seen as a complete doormat someone can just walk all over" so I can't quite say I agree with your point of view. And that still doesn't solve the thing with him having illegally obtained evidence. As I said, he could've gone to a doctor and gotten the potential bruises recorded (I'm pretty sure he had some bruises, getting hit with books hurts) and could even have gone so far as to sign a form to allow the doctor to present the medical records to the court.
I know this may sound incredibly dry, but this is what happens when you get raised in a legal assistant's home.

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I know that I tend to argue on this forum with a few people, but sometimes I think that Pierre and Cat are even worse than me when it comes it. So try to get along, you two! :ron:

Oh, and Cat. Do you honestly think that violence has to negate more violence? Because it only creates more problems and should be absolutely the last resort. Be the better man/woman, and prove that you're above violence.

But you know, there is no such thing as real justice in this world. I know that from firsthand experience. Some of you already know, but I was suspended for three days in Freshman year because two girls said that I threatened to rape them. Not only that, but students in my chemistry class said that I was making terroristic threats. All of these supposed witnesses heard me out of context, and I was bullied by them as well. I said nothing of the sort to the two girls, but they probably misinterpreted something I said or again heard me out of context. Either way, I was a bullied victim then but still was given the bad rap. And with the threat of rape, that also stems from the horrible double standard set forth in our society. If I said that THEY threatened to rape ME, no one would take me seriously. So acting violent in that situation wouldn't have helped me at all, but made it worse. And that whole incident really drove me into a deep depression, almost near-suicidal.

Anyways, I hope that this kid is successful with the appeal. Someone with mental disabilities especially should not have to go through this garbage.
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CatMuto wrote:
As I told my mother, "I'd rather get into trouble than be seen as a complete doormat someone can just walk all over" so I can't quite say I agree with your point of view. And that still doesn't solve the thing with him having illegally obtained evidence. As I said, he could've gone to a doctor and gotten the potential bruises recorded (I'm pretty sure he had some bruises, getting hit with books hurts) and could even have gone so far as to sign a form to allow the doctor to present the medical records to the court.
I know this may sound incredibly dry, but this is what happens when you get raised in a legal assistant's home.

C-A


I'm not questioning the legality of the evidence I just don't think your way of doing things is right. The kid was taking matters into his own hands, he didn't know the law, he's only 15. He was just thinking "I need to get someone to believe me about this!" then when he showed his mother how bad it was of course she jumped the gun thinking she had to defend her child. She might have not known about the law either but she knew that horrible things were being done to her child.

The kid tried his own way, and because of an extremely stoney-faced jury, it didn't work out as planned. It's not the end of the matter.

The end of your path would get the kid expelled from school and potentially kill and almost certainly blind another human being. The kid would probably get charged and sent to jail.

Just because you don't assault someone doesn't mean you are a doormat.
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Quote:
Because it only creates more problems and should be absolutely the last resort. Be the better man/woman, and prove that you're above violence.


I have attempted that and it didn't stop any bullying. I even went against my better judgement and asked for help, taking the matter to teachers, and it still didn't change anything. So excuse me for having tried other ways and thinking that fighting violence with violence is actually a good course that at least makes you feel like you're actively doing something.

And why do people think his appeal should work? Hello, illegal evidence. Appealing that won't work, because he did get illegal evidence. And shouldn't a kid of 15 know at least a bit of the law? Or better yet, the goddamn mother should know about the law?

If she wanted to help, she should've gone to the teachers and not right the law authorities. But then, I also think that parents shouldn't get involved in their kid's bullying. They can be there for support, but I think a kid can only really stop the bullying if they do something (legally) themselves. Otherwise, they'll just get bullied for being weak and requiring the help of Mommy and Daddy against the big mean bullies~

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CatMuto wrote:
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And shouldn't a kid of 15 know at least a bit of the law?


A kid of 15? Maybe. A kid of 15 with developmental disabilities? That's a toss-up, depending on the diagnosis.
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Sorry but to me the fact it's illegal shouldn't mean shit in this case. In case you didn't notice he's in special ed, and at 15 he may not have known any better. But the bigger issue is once again the victim get's punished, and the bullies get away scott free. There was recently another publicized case where a kid was getting bullied for taking a MLP Rainbow Dash backpack to school, so the school made him leave it at home instead of punishing the bullies. Thanks to the uproar it caused the school reversed it's decision and let him bring it again.

This punish the victim BULLSHIT has to stop.
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I am a pacifist, so I don't believe in violence unless it's completely 100% necessary. And it usually isn't when it comes to bullying. I mean, if it's your last resort, as in, you've exhausted all other options, maybe, just maybe, it could be acceptable. But I don't believe that answering violence with violence is right. I was bullied in school, not physically, but emotionally. I was often made fun of in school for my intelligence. However, I didn't let it get to me. I reassured my self of how well I could do in school, and I got High Honors With Distinction in Grade 12, after years of just barely passing. I don't think that this kid deserved what happened to him. I also have a strong sense of justice, and nothing bothers me more than the wrong person getting punished, like what happened here.
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Johnny Rotan wrote:
Sorry but to me the fact it's illegal shouldn't mean shit in this case. In case you didn't notice he's in special ed, and at 15 he may not have known any better. But the bigger issue is once again the victim get's punished, and the bullies get away scott free. There was recently another publicized case where a kid was getting bullied for taking a MLP Rainbow Dash backpack to school, so the school made him leave it at home instead of punishing the bullies. Thanks to the uproar it caused the school reversed it's decision and let him bring it again.

This punish the victim BULLSHIT has to stop.


Yes that's the main point, the law isn't taking into account the context and is just looking at the rules. It's easy to say "Broke the rules, gotta be charged" but then we are ignoring everything else about the situation and the ramifications.

The prosecution is one thing, the fact the school hasn't done anything about the bullies is the real thing that should be called into question.

Also Cat the law isn't always absolute like that, hell look at a case in this very thread, THAT YOU APPLAUDED:

Klonoahedgehog wrote:
Jesus, these kind of stories dig up a ton of bad memories for me, a few years ago i was bullied to no end, name calling and stuff taken. i asked the teachers to do something about it but they never did, it was so bad that i couldn't take it any more, i stabbed one of the students in the arm with a sharp pencil, and beat up another one so bad she had to go to the hospital.

Hell i was sent to court for this, i got off the hook because my dad's defense attorney proved that they deserved what they got.

I sympathize with this kid.


"Proved that they deserved what they got" People generally agree "Yeah ok, the kid was forced to do something illegal and we understand that they had it coming, lets let em off the hook"

The court decided. It's the same case here except this judge and jury didn't let it go. It wasn't the absolute of the law, there was understanding.
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Personally i think the only thing a bully understands is force. Especially after what i've been through.
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That boy has my sympathy. The fact remains that he broke the law, but the school comes off as trying to make the boy out to be a liar by calling attention to the illegality of the recording. The first image that comes to mind for me is that of the corrupt principal who tries to sweep bullying under the rug rather than confront the problem; when someone finally calls attention to it, the principal tries to discredit the whistleblower. Illegal recording or not, the school needs to take the bullying problem more seriously.
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Sorry but to me the fact it's illegal shouldn't mean shit in this case.


There's a difference between being Ethically right and being Legally right. In this case, of course everyone may sympathize with the kid and think he had every ethical right to record things, because he wanted it to end. But that doesn't change the fact that he went at it legally wrong. There are a lot of situations where someone may be right in one way, but wrong in the other.

A woman who kills her abusive husband in his sleep is ethically right, because she finally ended the abuse and is now free. But legally, she committed murder. A woman who had an abortion but doesn't tell her partner is correct in every legal way, but ethically you can argue that she should have told him before going through with it.

Quote:
Personally i think the only thing a bully understands is force. Especially after what i've been through.
Sometimes you just need to take matters into your own hands when other won't.


Pretty much. I don't care how often teachers or stories tell me that bullies are misunderstood and if you just take the time to get to know them, you'll realize that they aren't that bad and would be your friend - that's bullshit to me. A bully is a bully and uses force because of reasons I don't understand and shouldn't care about. Why should I care if a bully punches me in the face cause their parent is punching them in the face? Not my concern, my concern is what is happening to me and not to them.
So... "when in rome, do like the romans do"... and punch the bully back.

And as I said in my initial post, the school's actions just proves how nobody seems to take any report about bullying seriously, because nobody wants to deal with the problems it causes. You know, you don't see it, it's no problem. Much better to wash your hands off of it, because it's easier that way.

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CatMuto wrote:
And as I said in my initial post, the school's actions just proves how nobody seems to take any report about bullying seriously, because nobody wants to deal with the problems it causes. You know, you don't see it, it's no problem. Much better to wash your hands off of it, because it's easier that way.


When I was at school, they had a whole bunch of posters about anti-bullying and not stereotyping people, and they went on and on about how bullying wouldn't be tolerated, but when bullying actually occurred, they did nothing about it. Basically most of the policies they had against bullying were just discussions with the bullies. But what's that going to do? If anything, that could cause much worse trouble! Teachers would deal with kids who were messing about, but when someone was being bullied constantly, they did nothing.

There's an ethos that kids should just not care about being bullied and get on with it. In the adult world there are more ways to get justice. People sue and file charges. And yet, for some reason, a lot of people expect kids and teenagers to 'get on with' the exact same problems in schools.
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There's an ethos that kids should just not care about being bullied and get on with it. In the adult world there are more ways to get justice. People sue and file charges. And yet, for some reason, a lot of people expect kids and teenagers to 'get on with' the exact same problems in schools.


*shrug* It's like how I just read a 13 year old girl committed suicide because she was bullied... my only thought is, and I'm sure someone will call me a totally heartless bitch for this, is... Why do you care what anyone may say about you? If it goes over the line of simply calling you that and turning into outright slander, THEN you can sue them for slander. But otherwise, just ignore it.
It's like caring what someone on the internet calls you. Why bother, 99% of the people who talk to you on the internet you'll never even meet off-line, so let them talk all they want. It's just some little ego trying to sound bigger. No need to feel bad about it - unless, again, it crosses the line.

Also, just to point out, teenagers CAN sue other teenagers. Not going into details and going against the confidentiality I had in a law office where I worked - I'm not naming names, but then I don't even remember the names - there was a case of one teen sueing another for slander. Granted, correspondence was via parents, but it was still their case. So... technically, teens can use the law to their advantage.

...the law is their bitch.

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The thing is, different people think in different ways. Some people care deeply about what people think of them, others don't. Some have their feelings easily hurt, others don't. The thing is, just because YOU wouldn't be bothered by this, doesn't mean other people wouldn't. I'm starting to think that you're a sociopath or something, unable to feel empathy for others or see how they could be hurt by something.
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I'm starting to think that you're a sociopath or something, unable to feel empathy for others or see how they could be hurt by something.


It's a possibility. But then, I know for sure I'll teach my children to not care if someone calls them a bad name. Mostly because bad names are said so easily, they kinda lose their meaning as insults. Like me, I use the term bitch so often, it has almost replaced the word "girl" for me.

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CatMuto wrote:
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I'm starting to think that you're a sociopath or something, unable to feel empathy for others or see how they could be hurt by something.


It's a possibility. But then, I know for sure I'll teach my children to not care if someone calls them a bad name. Mostly because bad names are said so easily, they kinda lose their meaning as insults. Like me, I use the term bitch so often, it has almost replaced the word "girl" for me.

C-A


I always frown when I hear people using such language around their children just doesn't seem a good thing to teach them.

Also Cat the amount you complain about folks from Gamefaq boards and the like I'm not sure you practice what you preach about being thick-skinned and people harassing you.
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In MY schools, the "bullies" were groups of 4-5 mexicans.
They wanted people to "stand up to them" just so those little faggots could gang up on someone.
You guys want to know how I handled the bullies?

I beat the shit out of anyone stupid enough to think they could hassle me outside of school alone.

I wanna ask you guys something. Did any of your "bullies" ever pull out a knife?
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No. I was the one who had a knife on her person. Hidden and never pulled it out of its sheath. Then again, it was an old knife I got from my grandmother and I haven't sharpened it since I obtained it... almost 10 years ago. So it's probably about as sharp as a butter knife.

C-A

PS: Pierre, I don't care what they call me on the GameFAQs forums, I get pissed when they give false information about games~
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CatMuto wrote:
No. I was the one who had a knife on her person. Hidden and never pulled it out of its sheath. Then again, it was an old knife I got from my grandmother and I haven't sharpened it since I obtained it... almost 10 years ago. So it's probably about as sharp as a butter knife.

C-A

PS: Pierre, I don't care what they call me on the GameFAQs forums, I get pissed when they give false information about games~


You know I once had to escort a friend of mine to the administration department of school on suspicion on carrying a knife. Was horrified to think she'd do that, I mean I know she was undergoing a fair degree of troubles at the time but it was still shocking.

It's a little unnerving to think you would carry a knife and still encourage violence against bullies. Still good thing you never used it :kristoph:
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I only carried it on my person for a day or two, then continued to leave it at home. So now it's back in its regular place of underneath my pillow... or, since there's a gap between the matress and headboard, underneath my bed, where it isn't of much help. I'll just put it onto the bedside table.

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As someone already said here, fuck the law in this case.
The law isn't absolute, immutable or something we should respect no matter what. The law is something we should improve, change and even challenge according to our needs (if they are reasonable)

...Though I believe that appealing to the law because of bullying should be a last resort thing. If one, two or even three assholes are harassing you, you should know how to deal with it (even being a school kid), because you will eventually face situations that demand self-assertion in your adult life.
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dangerousoffender wrote:
As someone already said here, fuck the law in this case.
The law isn't absolute, immutable or something we should respect no matter what. The law is something we should improve, change and even challenge according to our needs (if they are reasonable)

...Though I believe that appealing to the law because of bullying should be a last resort thing. If one, two or even three assholes are harassing you, you should know how to deal with it (even being a school kid), because you will eventually face situations that demand self-assertion in your adult life.


See, this is why a parent shouldn't get involved in their kid's bullying. It's something the kid has to deal with, yes, in order to get self-assertion and become strong and not crack when they get older and deal with this or worse stuff when they're an adult. Also, the parent always sees things from an adult's PoV. To them, if they can't appeal to the lowest authority (ie. the School) they go to the higher people like the police or court, because they can overrule pretty much everyone.

The kid needs to deal with things his own way. And if his way is to (illegally, yes, this is still illegal) record footage of him being beat up, so be it. He should go to a doctor, have all his injuries recorded, get a copy and show that to the school, if he really lacks the guts to stand up to the bullies himself, if necessary with violence on his own side.

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CatMuto wrote:
dangerousoffender wrote:
As someone already said here, fuck the law in this case.
The law isn't absolute, immutable or something we should respect no matter what. The law is something we should improve, change and even challenge according to our needs (if they are reasonable)

...Though I believe that appealing to the law because of bullying should be a last resort thing. If one, two or even three assholes are harassing you, you should know how to deal with it (even being a school kid), because you will eventually face situations that demand self-assertion in your adult life.


See, this is why a parent shouldn't get involved in their kid's bullying. It's something the kid has to deal with, yes, in order to get self-assertion and become strong and not crack when they get older and deal with this or worse stuff when they're an adult. Also, the parent always sees things from an adult's PoV. To them, if they can't appeal to the lowest authority (ie. the School) they go to the higher people like the police or court, because they can overrule pretty much everyone.

The kid needs to deal with things his own way. And if his way is to (illegally, yes, this is still illegal) record footage of him being beat up, so be it. He should go to a doctor, have all his injuries recorded, get a copy and show that to the school, if he really lacks the guts to stand up to the bullies himself, if necessary with violence on his own side.

C-A


No, the kid should have went to their parent, the fault here doesn't lie with the parent it lies with the system being unyielding and inconsiderate.

Leaving a kid to deal with bullying alone makes you out to be an uncaring and heartless parent.

Scenario: You go out to the shops, your kid is about 10-13 and capable of being on his own. You let him run off up the aisle a bit while you peruse butter (or something like that). Your kid encounters some school bullies wandering around at the end of the aisle and they promptly start pushing him around and pinching him while laughing at him, they've never seen you at school so they don't know you are his parent.

Would you really ignore this on the grounds of "Well my kid needs to toughen up?" or would you step in and stop it.

Besides your solution just involved appealing to a higher power anyway, get information and go to the school. All you do is replace "parent" with "doctor". The "Parent" is a resource the kid can call upon to help deal with problems and a very potent one. They have a lot more powers and freedom than the child does. Going to a parent for help is the kid dealing with the problem in a smart way, why limit yourself to your own meagre capabilities (or as Cat might prefer, your fists), when you know someone who has a wealth of better connections and insight to deal with the problem?
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Re: Kid bullied, and charged with a FELONYTopic%20Title
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Oh my God, they're PINCHING my child! OH THE HORROR! No seriously. I would've taught my kid early on that if someone is bullying him, pushing him or similar, that they push back. Took me years to finally get that into my head, and I wish I would've done it sooner.

And like I said, there are multiple ways to deal with things. The doctor is one way. Fighting back with their fists is another.

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CatMuto wrote:
Oh my God, they're PINCHING my child! OH THE HORROR! No seriously. I would've taught my kid early on that if someone is bullying him, pushing him or similar, that they push back. Took me years to finally get that into my head, and I wish I would've done it sooner.

And like I said, there are multiple ways to deal with things. The doctor is one way. Fighting back with their fists is another.

C-A


Ok lets continue the scenario then with that action.

Your kid fights back pushes back. The other bigger kids grab his arms and then one of them punches back. Your kid is now bleeding from the lip and takes more hits to the gut.

The point was you said "Don't go to the parents, that's not independent, go to the DOCTOR" it's the same thing.

We don't live in an era where "Might makes Right" on an individual level anymore if your kid fights back physically against a gang of bullies odds are it's only going to get worse. If he loses he gets beaten horribly by a gang of thugs and possibly hospitalised. If he wins he gets reprimanded at school and maybe suspended or expelled which will hamper his chances of a good future by employment.
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DoMaya wrote:
In MY schools, the "bullies" were groups of 4-5 mexicans.
They wanted people to "stand up to them" just so those little faggots could gang up on someone.
You guys want to know how I handled the bullies?

I beat the shit out of anyone stupid enough to think they could hassle me outside of school alone.

I wanna ask you guys something. Did any of your "bullies" ever pull out a knife?


To answer that question, I've had to face a knife once, although that didn't happen on account of being school bullies.

Secondly, the kid here is 15 and special education. Now this may be drawing conclusions without all the information, but I don't think the kid in question knows a lot about defending himself or being particularly strong. Having the strength and courage to stand up and fight takes... well, strength and courage. And if you are relatively (we're talking teenagers here) strong and brave, chances are you are not the target of being bullied. More likely they target a weaker and cowardly person. So in my opinion violence can be the answer, but that's only true for messing with strong people, making this a solution for about 2 people per class.

CatMuto wrote:
I only carried it on my person for a day or two, then continued to leave it at home. So now it's back in its regular place of underneath my pillow... or, since there's a gap between the matress and headboard, underneath my bed, where it isn't of much help. I'll just put it onto the bedside table.

C-A


There are so many problems with this statement I don't know where to start. If my ex told me she had a knife under her pillow while we were sleeping I'd make a break for my car and get home ASAP.
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Quote:
There are so many problems with this statement I don't know where to start. If my ex told me she had a knife under her pillow while we were sleeping I'd make a break for my car and get home ASAP.


I always wonder why people react so shocked to such statements. It's just a precaution for the rare chance that something may happen. Like a robber getting into my room.

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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
There are so many problems with this statement I don't know where to start. If my ex told me she had a knife under her pillow while we were sleeping I'd make a break for my car and get home ASAP.


I always wonder why people react so shocked to such statements. It's just a precaution for the rare chance that something may happen. Like a robber getting into my room.

C-A


Because if someone is mentally unstable enough to place a goddamn knife under their pillow for 'just in case' I'd say there is also a possibility that the person could snap and stab you in your sleep.
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Pierre wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
See, this is why a parent shouldn't get involved in their kid's bullying. It's something the kid has to deal with, yes, in order to get self-assertion and become strong and not crack when they get older and deal with this or worse stuff when they're an adult. Also, the parent always sees things from an adult's PoV. To them, if they can't appeal to the lowest authority (ie. the School) they go to the higher people like the police or court, because they can overrule pretty much everyone.

The kid needs to deal with things his own way. And if his way is to (illegally, yes, this is still illegal) record footage of him being beat up, so be it. He should go to a doctor, have all his injuries recorded, get a copy and show that to the school, if he really lacks the guts to stand up to the bullies himself, if necessary with violence on his own side.

C-A


No, the kid should have went to their parent, the fault here doesn't lie with the parent it lies with the system being unyielding and inconsiderate.

Leaving a kid to deal with bullying alone makes you out to be an uncaring and heartless parent.

Scenario: You go out to the shops, your kid is about 10-13 and capable of being on his own. You let him run off up the aisle a bit while you peruse butter (or something like that). Your kid encounters some school bullies wandering around at the end of the aisle and they promptly start pushing him around and pinching him while laughing at him, they've never seen you at school so they don't know you are his parent.

Would you really ignore this on the grounds of "Well my kid needs to toughen up?" or would you step in and stop it.

Besides your solution just involved appealing to a higher power anyway, get information and go to the school. All you do is replace "parent" with "doctor". The "Parent" is a resource the kid can call upon to help deal with problems and a very potent one. They have a lot more powers and freedom than the child does. Going to a parent for help is the kid dealing with the problem in a smart way, why limit yourself to your own meagre capabilities (or as Cat might prefer, your fists), when you know someone who has a wealth of better connections and insight to deal with the problem?


I tend to think that if a kid is bullied by many others constantly to the point of being physically assaulted, something is wrong with his self-confidence and assertion. I remember of classmates who could have been bullied if they hadn't reacted to insults... Which makes me say that everything depends on how someone deal with bullies. Sadly, sometimes we only get respect when we are feared.
Parents should give support? Of course, but they can't live their child's life 24/7. Depending on the gravity of the situation, parents can appeal to authority to help but it's always good to be realistic and teach a kid how to intimidate someone at the right moments.
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I won't get too much into the argument above, but I'd like to drop my two cents here. If a bullying case is serious enough to be taken to court, it's not just a bullying case anymore. It's a question of the responsibility of the school administration. Sending hate mail to this principal isn't exactly the best solution, though. Letting more people become aware of these situations definitely will help. Though the courts may not be changing their polices any time soon, there should at least be classes held to teach kids how to deal with bullying. Make it mandatory, so kids who would prefer to skip out can learn to avoid becoming bullies themselves. There may not be one specific way to deal with it, but people can explore their options.

In any case, at least take a moment to consider the viewpoints of the children who are doing the bullying. Ask around to get in the know about them. Bullying itself is usually a case of misunderstanding taken to extremes. I've rarely ever had to face bullying in my communities because people have become more socially aware about these sorts of incidents and take precautions to avoid them.

And as for me, the times when I did ever get bullied (though they were always minor cases, no physical violence involved), I had good friends who stuck with me. When I was alone, I'd simply stay quiet and - believe it or not - pity them. Pity that they may have been bullied themselves and thought the best way to deal with it was to shove their problems onto others.

I know I can't say much to those who have faced the danger of violence themselves. Still, be the better person. Grit your teeth when you need to, but remember to look for help, aka backup, and explain the situation. A responsible figure of authority would get the story from both sides before coming to a conclusion.

When in doubt, fellow Americans, always remember that it's us people learning about these stories that control how long a politician can stay in office. They are elected representatives, after all. (The most conspicuous lingering issue, though, is that the other candidates are either unreliable in some way or the old candidates are corrupt as heck to prevent new, possibly promising candidates to join the fray. I'm disappointed to say that there's no particular solution for that problem.)
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Quote:
Bullying itself is usually a case of misunderstanding taken to extremes.


Uhh... you've never seen a bully who bullies for the sake of... bullying? They have no good reason or excuse to do it, no misunderstanding, no "falsely insulted" way or anything like that. They just do it because they can. You know, their reason then is that their bully victim "exists". It's just someone going all the way out when they meet someone they just can't stand for no reason. I'm sure you've met them before. A person who, you have no idea why, but you just don't like them. And that kind of bully exists. They just... bully cause they can.

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When in doubt, fellow Americans,


...yeah thanks, to all those people who are not American. :payne:

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Quote:
Uhh... you've never seen a bully who bullies for the sake of... bullying? They have no good reason or excuse to do it, no misunderstanding, no "falsely insulted" way or anything like that. They just do it because they can. You know, their reason then is that their bully victim "exists". It's just someone going all the way out when they meet someone they just can't stand for no reason. I'm sure you've met them before. A person who, you have no idea why, but you just don't like them. And that kind of bully exists. They just... bully cause they can.


No Cat because even then your logic is flawed. You can't simplify things to "just cause" there are many intricate reasons behind human behaviour.

"Cause they can!" = Because they get SOMETHING out of it, maybe a sense of power in which case it might be missing from their lifes. Maybe because it was done to them and they feel it's fair (or even tradition) to do it to others (Ala: College 'hazing').

Also Cat you ignored my previous point where if a kid reacts with violence the outcome is always negative.
If they win they are reprimanded and maybe expelled or suspended.
If they lose they are beaten badly for their hubris.

Also like Sjibbey says, the strength to fight back is not always available to the bullied individual. The proper paths of diplomacy and 'going above the bullies heads' to a higher power are avaliable more of the time.

I understand that kids need to learn how to stand on their own two feet, hell it could be argued bullying is an early introduction into the fallibility of the "Just World Belief", but that should be for important matters such as dealing with emotions properly and financing and generally functioning in society. Calling in a parent is effectively the child equivalent of calling the Police: an appropriate response to prolonged physical and emotional threats. Learning to stand on your own two feet by fighting your problems with your fists well...unless you are going into a martial career like boxing or MMA it's going to cause problems in life.

Society is built around us NOT needing to solve problems with violence anymore so it's not something we should be teaching our children.

Also @Rubia
Well done sir, I think it's amazing you'd have that insight as a child to consider bullies in that way.
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
In any case, at least take a moment to consider the viewpoints of the children who are doing the bullying. Ask around to get in the know about them. Bullying itself is usually a case of misunderstanding taken to extremes. I've rarely ever had to face bullying in my communities because people have become more socially aware about these sorts of incidents and take precautions to avoid them.


Pierre wrote:
"Cause they can!" = Because they get SOMETHING out of it, maybe a sense of power in which case it might be missing from their lifes. Maybe because it was done to them and they feel it's fair (or even tradition) to do it to others (Ala: College 'hazing').


It wouldn't be that useful to consider the viewpoints of the children who are doing the bullying because nothing can fully justify their behavior. Sure, they may have family and/or psychological problems but let's also take in count that many others have the same issues, yet they don't throw them onto others. The bully's problem, more than anything (especially if we are talking about a teen) is the lack of ethical strenght, and I don't mean to sound moralistic here.
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