Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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Quote:
...the guardians kill his guards while she dance-sends him. Durr. Problem solved. Plus, after the Macalania Temple, Seymour is still walking around alone a lot. Not always, but often. Plenty of opportunity to send him.
You forget Cat, this situation was actually done in game and it didn't work out. Her guardians are strong but he could have brought down armies on them. If they'd felt capable of taking on everyone to save Yuna they would have but there were held at gunpoint and helpless to save her leading to the blackmail.
Also for moments when Yuna is alone with Seymour, let's not fool ourselves that dance takes time. Seymour could easily walk up to Yuna and whack her with his staff or something to stop her from sending.
Quote:
Yes, but that sacrifice, to her and the whole world, has always been "the Summoner dies" nothing there said a single thing about the guardian. Sure, the guardians may die during the pilgrimage, but nothing that their death was necessary to defeat Sin. And you saw how devastated she was when she found out about Meister Mika and her turmoil when she heard the Truth about the Final Aeon.
Yes, she was taught that her sacrifice is necessary to defeat Sin. Nothing taught her, until the end, that someone else's sacrifice was necessary. It shakes her entire view on how things worked in her world. Who's to say that she would have gone through with it? She wanted to ask Yunalesca something - that had nothing to do with Tidus - and when she found out the answer is "Sin can't be defeated, even if you use all your guardians as the Final Aeon" she decided to do something about it. She had already refused to do so, because she thought, "Well if my sacrifice and somebody else's really is necessary to defeat Sin forever, I might go for it... if it would be a pointless sacrifice of them... I won't."
Again, this had nothing to do with Tidus.
They didn't have a plan how to defeat Sin after defeating Yunalesca, I will not deny that. But rising against Yunalesca was not because of Tidus. It was because of the truth they found out and Yuna decided to not go through with it, and what Yuna says, goes.
Yes, she was taught that her sacrifice is necessary to defeat Sin. Nothing taught her, until the end, that someone else's sacrifice was necessary. It shakes her entire view on how things worked in her world. Who's to say that she would have gone through with it? She wanted to ask Yunalesca something - that had nothing to do with Tidus - and when she found out the answer is "Sin can't be defeated, even if you use all your guardians as the Final Aeon" she decided to do something about it. She had already refused to do so, because she thought, "Well if my sacrifice and somebody else's really is necessary to defeat Sin forever, I might go for it... if it would be a pointless sacrifice of them... I won't."
Again, this had nothing to do with Tidus.
They didn't have a plan how to defeat Sin after defeating Yunalesca, I will not deny that. But rising against Yunalesca was not because of Tidus. It was because of the truth they found out and Yuna decided to not go through with it, and what Yuna says, goes.
Here
It is Tidus who broaches the subject of asking Yunalesca for another way and help. Not Yuna. It's his speech that encourages Yuna to go along with it and find a new way. She only found out that Sin is TRULY eternal when they went to question Yunalesca, until that point Yuna like Braska still believed that with enough atonement Sin might not come back after it had been done.
Also of course she'd been taught someone else's sacrifice is necessary, it's the whole point of being a guardian to lay down your life for the summoner and ensure they fulfil their mission. She might not have known it was specifically required but she was certainly prepared for the eventuality that a Guardian would sacrifice themselves for the summoner.
If Spiran's atone then there's a chance that Sin might not come back. Yunalesca later reveals that humanity would never attain such purity. Until she does Yuna is still of a mindset that "There's a chance and it's not a pointless sacrifice".
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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Another thing I've noticed playing the game too is when Yuna first mentions marrying Seymour, Auron brings up behind her back that Seymour is a better negotiator and that Yuna is very easy to read. Coupling these facts together and seeing how Seymour toyed with them in Bevelle, he's obviously aware that Yuna is going to send him and teased with the fact since her guardians interrupted. He, again, could very easily take her down solo with just himself, but since he has a whole army there on his side, why bother?
I'm not even going to argue the moot point about the dance taking time. Yuna has everything against her. As strong as her character is, Seymour is much stronger and much more powerful both physically and politically. She has no chance against Seymour, and she never will by herself. If he has to, he could easily just lock her up and take her staff. Then what?
And the guardians coming to save her? On an Al-Bhed ship? The same Al-Bheds that kidnapped Yuna in Luca to force Wakka to throw the game? The same Al-Bheds whose technology allowed Chappu to die? The same Al-Bheds whose machina are forbidden by the teachings of Yevon? No. Without Tidus's influence, it's very, very unlikely that the group would have gone through with all that. None of them cared for the Al-Bhed in the beginning, especially Wakka. Though Lulu MAY, big MAY be slightly more swayed because of Yuna's lineage, what happened to Chappu I'm sure would affect her opinion on them. Not only that, but with the fact that Sin is Jecht, I believe that Tidus being there had some influence of bringing the group to Home in the first place instead of outright killing them.
I think it's a very interesting idea of how the story would play out without Tidus, but I highly doubt it'd play out the EXACT same way it happened in the game. In fact, I'm pretty sure the group would only get so far before they got screwed.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
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Quote:
You forget Cat, this situation was actually done in game and it didn't work out. Her guardians are strong but he could have brought down armies on them. If they'd felt capable of taking on everyone to save Yuna they would have but there were held at gunpoint and helpless to save her leading to the blackmail.
Also for moments when Yuna is alone with Seymour, let's not fool ourselves that dance takes time. Seymour could easily walk up to Yuna and whack her with his staff or something to stop her from sending.
Also for moments when Yuna is alone with Seymour, let's not fool ourselves that dance takes time. Seymour could easily walk up to Yuna and whack her with his staff or something to stop her from sending.
I was more thinking about the times, like, at Mt Gagazet. He was alone. The party was there. They could've fought him while she dances.
Quote:
In fact, I'm pretty sure the group would only get so far before they got screwed.
I'm still inclined to believe that might have been the better way. I don't care how important Tidus supposedly is to the story, it's a fucking pain in the ass to deal with. All his lines sound like whining to me, even when he supposedly "matures" and "becomes the leader". How did it sound in any way different towards the end of the game? He still sounded the same. JAT and Morita's way of sounding like a leader was "speak louder and clearer". But again, I'll cut Morita some slack, it was his absolute debut role.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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Quote:
I was more thinking about the times, like, at Mt Gagazet. He was alone. The party was there. They could've fought him while she dances.
She'd have drawn his attention instantly and he would not have let her pull it off all the same. Sure he'd have two other people to deal with but she'd clearly be the bigger threat.
Quote:
I'm still inclined to believe that might have been the better way. I don't care how important Tidus supposedly is to the story, it's a fucking pain in the ass to deal with. All his lines sound like whining to me, even when he supposedly "matures" and "becomes the leader". How did it sound in any way different towards the end of the game? He still sounded the same. JAT and Morita's way of sounding like a leader was "speak louder and clearer". But again, I'll cut Morita some slack, it was his absolute debut role.
So your argument boils down to "I hate the character so much I'm attempting to find reasons to objectively declare he is bad"
His voice actor never bothered me much. Also I'm not sure how much he is meant to be 'the leader' or whether his role is just to be an outsider to the group though it's more his constant insistence on it being his "story" that irks me.
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Quote:
So your argument boils down to "I hate the character so much I'm attempting to find reasons to objectively declare he is bad"
No. I'm just saying I don't care if Tidus is important in any way to the story. I still hate him and find him an annoying character. He's like Snow for me, except Snow didn't have that much to do with the story. (But let's not get another talk going about that. You like him, I don't.)
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
So your argument boils down to "I hate the character so much I'm attempting to find reasons to objectively declare he is bad"
No. I'm just saying I don't care if Tidus is important in any way to the story. I still hate him and find him an annoying character. He's like Snow for me, except Snow didn't have that much to do with the story. (But let's not get another talk going about that. You like him, I don't.)
C-A
It's fine if you don't like him but do you at least agree that he served a purpose in the plot?
For the record I don't even like him that much.
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Tidus, sort of, but then I think much as a doormat Yuna is, she would've grown her backbone, even without Tidus' presence.
Or tongue in her mouth.
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CatMuto wrote:
Which one, Tidus or Snow? Snow served a subplot, which could be cut from the game without much being changed.
Tidus, sort of, but then I think much as a doormat Yuna is, she would've grown her backbone, even without Tidus' presence.
Or tongue in her mouth.
C-A
Tidus, sort of, but then I think much as a doormat Yuna is, she would've grown her backbone, even without Tidus' presence.
Or tongue in her mouth.
C-A
Tidus I meant but ok.
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I'm not going to even bother to cover it with a spoiler tag.
"If you really are a l'Cie, it's my job to deal with you."
This line. This fucking line, is where I decided I hated Lightning. Yes Light, that is your job. You know it, Serah knows it, Snow knows it, and every fucking person on Cocoon knows it. It sounds like a ridiculous lie, which is why Serah wouldn't have told you that if she couldn't prove it. Yes, if anyone just went up and told Light about a Pulse l'Cie, it would be okay to dismiss it without a second thought, but Serah is Light's sister. She knows her better than anyone else. She would. Not. Lie. To her. About something as ridiculous as that. If. She. Couldn't. Prove. It. But did Light even try to reason it? No. She just decides she knows everything about Snow and hates his guts (whom, according to Episode Zero which is canon, she met for one minute) so she can avoid the topic until the convenient news broadcast proves her wrong. I get that the point of a defrosting ice queen is that a character goes from a bitch to a nicer person, but there are some things I don't forgive and threatening your sister for no good reason is one.
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Who can blame her? He looks like a bum, doesn't seem to have a steady job and overall is leader of a gang that basically boils down to "flip off all authority, we make our own rules". Defrosting Ice Queen or not, that is not the type of person you want your sister to be associated with, much less marry.
But back to the Pulse l'Cie thing. For one, it's an incredibly dumb thing to say because nothing Pulse-related has been found on Cocoon for decades, if not centuries - honestly can't remember if it's decades or centuries - so her sister saying something so ridiculous just sounds even worse.
And back to it being said alongside the fact that she's marrying Snow. Which makes it sound like nothing but an excuse to make Light angry enough to almost throw her out of the house, so that Sera could elope with Snow and a good conscious. Yeah it may sound dumb to you, but that might be what Light was thinking.
Also on a side-note, Sera and Snow knew each other for only about a month, right? And already engaged? Yeah, that sounds like a good decision on Sera's part to Light. A whole month and already decided to marry and spend the rest of thel ife with this guy, huh? The whole situation just feels like a big pile of crap being told to her in order to somehow "sanction" their engagement, even if it's by potentially going so far that Light would say "Get out of the house".
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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And even if it did sound like a pile of crap, Light should know that Serah wouldn't lie to her about something like that. Consider a hypothetical situation: Serah really is lying about the whole thing, and Light decides to "entertain" the idea. The first thing any sane person would do is ask "do you have proof of this?" In this hypothetical situation, Serah wouldn't have any proof, considering that a glowing tattoo would be impossible even for Cocoon technology, and the whole thing would immediately fall apart. Light has known Serah for what, eighteen years? Hell, apparently she even raised her after their parents died. Like a certain other pair of siblings, but the media really seems to love that trope for some reason. She should know that Serah wouldn't be so stupid to make up such a ridiculous claim if she couldn't back it up, regardless of being engaged to Snow. Yet instead of taking the situation calmly, she flat out threatens her. I cannot emphasize that last part enough.
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sumguy28 wrote:
A month? Where was that stated?
Serah was planning to attend the university in Eden when she fell in love with Snow during summer vacation, much to Lightning's dismay.
Okay, it doesn't say a month after all. I forget where I got the month from...
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Spoiler: 
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CatMuto wrote:
What's so terrible about it? Fanart of characters made suddenly obese has been around for years.
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Eh? Usually people be grossed bout it.... o.o
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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Anthony wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
What's so terrible about it? Fanart of characters made suddenly obese has been around for years.
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Eh? Usually people be grossed bout it.... o.o
"Usually"? Some folks like a bigger woman.
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And Kefka was an awesome villain.
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PS: Oh I guess I should mention post contains spoilerish mentions of FF VII and VI.
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Pierre wrote:
Anthony wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
What's so terrible about it? Fanart of characters made suddenly obese has been around for years.
C-A
C-A
Eh? Usually people be grossed bout it.... o.o
"Usually"? Some folks like a bigger woman.
That is true I am one of the folks that do love bigger women.... But there comes the haters or those who think bigger women are ew :/
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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Anthony wrote:
That is true I am one of the folks that do love bigger women.... But there comes the haters or those who think bigger women are ew :/
So...you've been trolling CR with the last three or four posts you made complaining about fat video game character art or...? I don't really get whatever point you've been trying to make.
And regarding the tumblr post, FF VII was boring, though I'm sure the butchered English translation didn't help.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
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Quote:
And regarding the tumblr post, FF VII was boring, though I'm sure the butchered English translation didn't help.
Ahahahaha, yeah the English translation was terrible. But you should've seen the German one we got. Things were translated into the wrong word, we had German text that suddenly switched to English mid-sentence, we had German text with the first half of the text repeated, so the second half of the text was missing and sometimes we flat out still had Japanese text. For example, they translated the Materia Drain into Rohr. Now technically this isn't wrong since the drain can refer to the pipe and Rohr is German for pipe. The drain pipe. But, of course, it should have been translated to Abziehen or Absorbieren, since the materia refers to the verb of draining something. The latter actually, as you can tell, is basically coming from to absorb.
Quote:
I'll even go as far to say that as far as overrated games go, in comparison to, say, Ocarina of Time and FF7, the former has aged better in my opinion.
I think both have aged rather badly. Even if Ocarina was on the N64, which was even older than the PS1, at least that had a circle pad to move the character around with. But both always bored me when I played them, the controls are very uncomfortable and are overall not as great as people constantly say they are.
I mean, it took me about 4, maybe 5, attempts at playing VII to just get to the end of Disc 1. I kept giving up after the Golden Saucer date because everything leading up to that point was so boring. Everybody says that the game and story and events become much better Disc 2 onwards, but I think that's terrible. A game shouldn't be so slow with its pacing and storytelling that I have to wait several hours in for it to get better.
I know someone will say XIII had a similar problem, which I halfway agree with. Battle system wise, the most fun starts Chapter 9 onwards, but I think the story moves on decently enough with its pacing beforehand, so I didn't feel like I was going nowhere to follow Sephiroth like in VII.
And I'll say it again. Aerith's death was not a shock, it didn't come out of nowhere and the scene isn't even all that sad. Somebody quoted Cloud's
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Anthony wrote:
You would had think in the FF7 Storyline they shold had done another FF7 series after events of Dirge Of Cerberus.
Bad enough that they milked the series as they did, we don't need more. I'm glad that we got an entire game focused on Zack, I love Zack and all, but I wouldn't say that Crisis Core is a good prequel. It works as a standalone game, the characters (most of them) do have a connection to VII and it works... but the rest, from the missions to the "villain" to majority of the story until Niblheim, it just is something completely different. They maybe should've focused on something else - like the Wutai War that claimed Elmyra's husband's life and other men probably. That was something established in VII's backstory, why not focus on that? The thing with Genesis...
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Quote:
......... and since Hojo and Vincent has some history that's why Vincent hates Hojo with a passion and shit.
.....You made me do this, Anthony. It's now canon in my head.
Spoiler: NSFW Yaoi Image! (HojoxVincent)
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Anthony wrote:
Well I mean Sephiroth and Genesis are the only guys in the Story that tried to destroy the world or some shit.
Is there any main Final Fantasy villain who doesn't want to destroy the world/kill all humans or some shit?
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sumguy28 wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Well I mean Sephiroth and Genesis are the only guys in the Story that tried to destroy the world or some shit.
Is there any main Final Fantasy villain who doesn't want to destroy the world/kill all humans or some shit?
FFXII's Vayne.
He's just doing legitimate world domination via War.
AND HE DOESN'T EVEN MISTREAT THE COUNTRIES HE CONQUERS IN ANYWAY.
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
......... and since Hojo and Vincent has some history that's why Vincent hates Hojo with a passion and shit.
.....You made me do this, Anthony. It's now canon in my head.
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Spoiler: NSFW Yuri Image! (AerithxTifa)
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Guess this is just another one of those butthurt jerks who can't deal with a different opinion.
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Spoiler: VincentxLucrecia
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Anthony wrote:
This pretty much sums things up when it comes to Vincent and Lucrecia.
Spoiler: VincentxLucrecia
Considering how Lucrecia was - in reality or how Vincent saw her through rose tinted glasses - I doubt there was any love story to begin with. Also, practically EVERYTHING is a better love story than Twilight. (Except for Endless Love... that's a terrible shit story and I feel compelled to say that Twilight did better there... but only by a smidge)
You know, one of the original ideas for X was that Tidus would be dead/an unsent from the beginning. But they decided against it because the Sixth Sense had a similar or that exact kind of plot twist already and people would've figured it out. So they gave that part to Auron... and it was still obvious. What's the point of changing something to make it less obvious when it's still so freaking obvious?
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CatMuto wrote:
Anthony wrote:
This pretty much sums things up when it comes to Vincent and Lucrecia.
Spoiler: VincentxLucrecia
Considering how Lucrecia was - in reality or how Vincent saw her through rose tinted glasses - I doubt there was any love story to begin with. Also, practically EVERYTHING is a better love story than Twilight. (Except for Endless Love... that's a terrible shit story and I feel compelled to say that Twilight did better there... but only by a smidge)
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None of them worse glasses.
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Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
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dullahan1 wrote:
Anthony... are you serious or are you being sarcastic? Cat was using rose-tinted glasses as a saying. She's saying that with Vincent's relationship with Lucrecia, he'd only pay attention to the pleasant part of their relationship and ignore everything bad that happened, thus him having developed an unhealthy infatuation for her. I gather that's the gist of what you mean, Cat?
But Vincent would make everything up to Lucrecia. Any guy would do that. Even Cloud for Tifa.
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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dullahan1 wrote:
Anthony... are you serious or are you being sarcastic? Cat was using rose-tinted glasses as a saying. She's saying that with Vincent's relationship with Lucrecia, he'd only pay attention to the pleasant part of their relationship and ignore everything bad that happened, thus him having developed an unhealthy infatuation for her. I gather that's the gist of what you mean, Cat?
Yes. Perhaps I used the wrong term? Maybe I was thinking of the french la vie en rosé or a German, similar proverb. Basically, that Vincent only saw the good in Lucrecia, maybe even saw things that were never there to begin with, like her actually having romantic feelings for him.
It is a high possibility that it's like that considering Vincent's game's portrayal of Lucrecia is so different from how she was however little mentioned in VII, you definitely feel that one of those is a total lie or she really was used without her consent.
Quote:
But Vincent would make everything up to Lucrecia. Any guy would do that. Even Cloud for Tifa.
...do you mean he'd make everything up about Lucrecia - ie think that she was this when she really isn't - or that he makes everything up to her, like when he does a mistake and he goes the extra mile to make up for it? Two different things, but I'm guessing you mean the former. And not necessarily. I doubt Cloud would say Tifa... is good at sewing, when she isn't. I mean, when you're in love with someone, their flaws seem insignificant to you or don't bother you, but you don't flat out invent something about them that isn't true.
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Re: The Final Fantasy franchise
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Pierre wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Well I mean Sephiroth and Genesis are the only guys in the Story that tried to destroy the world or some shit.
Is there any main Final Fantasy villain who doesn't want to destroy the world/kill all humans or some shit?
FFXII's Vayne.
He's just doing legitimate world domination via War.
AND HE DOESN'T EVEN MISTREAT THE COUNTRIES HE CONQUERS IN ANYWAY.
The few complaints I have made towards this game after twenty five hours no longer matter. FFXII is my new favorite Final Fantasy game.
Ok, not really, but still, a villain who isn't portrayed as purely insane, purely evil, or mind controlled? Count me in!
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