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Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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I'm gonna throw my thoughts in on the 999 vs. VLR debate later when I've beaten VLR, but I pretty much agree with a lot of the non-spoiler thoughts I've read so far

Anyway, I blew through a lot of the game today. I now have Tenmyouji's, Dio's, Clover's, and Alice's endings

Spoiler:
I got to a part where only Sigma, Quark (unconscious), K, and Phi are alive. The game was letting me advance because I knew about the cure to the poison, but I stopped because it felt like the true ending path and I wanted that last

Also, I'm pretty much convinced Luna is Zero or is at least the one killing everyone. She feels very pointless to the game's plot so far (don't tell me/hint if I'm right or not on this)

I also can't decide if Quark is an annoying little shit or like, the cutest kid ever. I think it depends on whether or not he wears his hat :yogi:

Young K was also the cutest thing ever
Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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K in general is the cutest thing ever.
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Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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I love his one animation where he puts his hand to his mouth like, "Oh, stop it, you"
Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I love his one animation where he puts his hand to his mouth like, "Oh, stop it, you"


There's a scene where you Alice and K go into a room. It's fantastic.
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Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title

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JesusMonroe wrote:
I'm gonna throw my thoughts in on the 999 vs. VLR debate later when I've beaten VLR, but I pretty much agree with a lot of the non-spoiler thoughts I've read so far

Anyway, I blew through a lot of the game today. I now have Tenmyouji's, Dio's, Clover's, and Alice's endings

Spoiler:
I got to a part where only Sigma, Quark (unconscious), K, and Phi are alive. The game was letting me advance because I knew about the cure to the poison, but I stopped because it felt like the true ending path and I wanted that last

Also, I'm pretty much convinced Luna is Zero or is at least the one killing everyone. She feels very pointless to the game's plot so far (don't tell me/hint if I'm right or not on this)

I also can't decide if Quark is an annoying little shit or like, the cutest kid ever. I think it depends on whether or not he wears his hat :yogi:

Young K was also the cutest thing ever


Spoiler:
Don't worry about accidentally running across the true ending in VLR. IIRC, you can't actually get to the true ending without completing all of the other endings (aside from game over endings).
Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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Well, this post was way longer than I thought it would be

Well, I finished it...I think. I clocked it at a little over 28 hours, so I definitely got my money's worth. I'm kind of just confused, and not in a good way. I also didn't like how there wasn't much finality to the ending and it was just sequel-bait, and from what I heard, that might not even happen

I loved the game but I'm disappointed with the ending. 999 felt like I had a huge meal AND a desert that topped it all off. This didn't give me that feeling


Again, I did love the game, but it's easier for me to complain about something than praise it. So, here are some criticisms I had about it

Spoiler:
I mentioned this before, but Digital Roots>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Color Scheme Thing/BP. I thought the writing to 999 was amazing before it got into some of its mindblowing science talk and philosophy, just because of the digital roots. I could just imagine the writers assigning bracelet numbers to each character, deciding the order of the doors, realizing that something wouldn't work, rewriting, rewriting, and rewriting. It was really clever and it felt like a lot of the mystery of the game was built around it. In VLR, I wasn't ever concerned that much with who was going to leave through the door (and it could've been very easy for everyone to do so, like in the Phi end). In 999, I was constantly thinking about who would go through the number 9 door with me. I was thinking either four people would be left behind, or if two groups could go through, someone like Seven would have to stay behind anyway. There were other elements like "Who killed Snake?" and "Who killed Lotus?" where you had to think really hard about digital roots. The AB games were fine and it was interesting to see how you couldn't really trust anyone (I chose ally and got screwed on a lot of them) but it never came into play in a significant way. Someone raises the possibility of it being a motive for murder at one point but it never is

I will say that the game did surprise me in some areas. Luna's ending made me genuinely upset and I was afraid the game would make her the killer/Zero. This game didn't have many suspects after all (I immediately eliminated Sigma, Phi, Alice, Clover, Quark, and K from the suspect pool for obvious reasons. This left Tenmyioji, Dio, and Luna, and I didn't really think it was Tenmyioji). Yeah, Sigma was Zero so I was wrong, but the game broke one of Knox's Commandments so I didn't expect it

Also, I loved the bittersweet ending to 999; how Junpei would chase after Akane his entire life and never find her. I didn't like how VLR changed it, but it doesn't bother me that much

Also, some questions

-In K's ending, who smashed Dio's bracelet? K killed Dio, but he had no reason to smash Dio's bracelet

-Ace was a member of Free the Soul.................okay

-In one of the paths, Tenmyouji tells Clover something that gets her to trust him. Did Tenmyouji tell Clover he was Junpei or that he knew Akane?

-Not really a plot hole, but I thought the tubocurine antidote could effectively be used in the ending where Sigma had five minutes to live. Instead, it had something to do with his arms? Like I said, not a plothole, but it is something I raised an eyebrow at

-Where's Santa?

-Why do Alice and Tenmyouji always choose the opposite of me for the first AB game? It was brought up but never really explained. Phi just said that it was like Schrodinger's Cat

-I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to know this but I'll ask anyway. Who's mind was in Kyle's body at the end?

-Ok, I know 999 had a plothole (Snake's bracelet not coming off with the prosthetic arm) but that wasn't a huge focal point of the plot. The big twist in the game makes absolutely no sense to me. At first, I thought it was kind of clever. We never see Sigma's face when results are displayed, people make comments about him looking old and being pervy, he doesn't have a VA, etc. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense, though. One, why didn't the mind of young Sigma realize his voice was significantly different? I realize he was infected with Radical-6 and his whole body felt weird, but he should've at least commented on it. Two, why did he never see his reflection? Zero could've made sure the facility had no reflective surfaces, but c'mon. There was a dirty mirror in the infirmary. Sigma could've decided it was necessary to clean it at one point for a puzzle. Scratch that cause it doesn't matter. EVERY SINGLE ROOM HAD A DARK COMPUTER MONITOR. Three, Sigma never touched his face? Really? The average person does it about three thousand times a day. If he felt tired, I'd say Sigma should've rubbed his eyes at one point and realized his eye was robotic. Four, at one point Sigma tells Phi he's twenty-two. This should've provoked a stronger reaction from her. Five, Clover, Phi, Alice, and Dio are very crass. Clover and Phi never call Sigma, "An eighty year old perv", Alice never comments about Sigma's appearance, and Dio doesn't ever call Sigma a "one-eyed fucker" in an argument or something. Nobody ever brings up Sigma's eye. Plus, Zero couldn't have planned a lot of variables that would've made Sigma realize. Like, what if Sigma rode the bunny ride instead of K and got his picture taken? I call bullshit on this entire twist

Pierre wrote:

I'm not quite sure what your Back to the Future comparison means (cause 3 is clearly the best) but I prefer 999. I think it's plot twist was bigger, VLR is lessened by the fact that I KNOW what kinda crazy stuff they can pull as a result of playing 999 so my expectations of what the twists might be are widened by my knowledge of Zero escape's Lore.

Plus the Sprites are totally better than the 3D models.

I think the BTTF comparison is more apt at this point now that I finished (and the first is my favorite. It's actually my favorite movie). BTTF2 is a really good sequel that builds on the stuff introduced in BTTF (alternate timelines and such), revisits things with old characters, and doesn't feel like a rehash even though it has similar plot elements. Though, the first one had a little more heart to it and the second does feel like it's setting up the sequel

Though, I think I agree with your main criticism that the VLR is lessened because you know what to expect from 999. It's like Ace Attorney. 1-4 is a great case, but the case wouldn't be as great if you played other games first. While I was playing through 1-4 the first time, I truly thought Edgeworth killed his Dad was shocked/proud when Phoenix decided to defend him. Barring the fact that Edgeworth appears in later games, if I played 1-4 after playing the rest of the series, I'd know Edgeworth didn't kill anybody because that's what I've come to expect from the series. Similarly, turnabouts aren't as impressive when you know there has to be a turnabout in a case

I didn't mind the 3D models, but I did think the cutscenes or still-images of the models were a little weird and unsettling. Parts of the game (like Sigma putting the key on his ankle) just uses drawn art, which I think looks better and would probably be cheaper

Bad Player wrote:
I think a good comparison for VLR to 999 is Portal 2 to Portal. The sequels are bigger, have more stuff, and clearly have more production value... but there was just something in the originality and novelty of the original that isn't captured by the sequel.

Speaking of the atmosphere, I felt like 999 had a much darker and "pressing" atmosphere, where you felt like there was someone out there (or rather, among you) who was tormenting and killing you all, whereas in VLR, you were just... there. Although I also heard that they purposefully tried to make the atmosphere less scary in VLR, because apparently in Japan there were a sizable chunk of people who didn't buy 999 because they thought it would be too scary/gorey (which anyone who's actually played it knows it isn't).

A Pierre mentioned, part of VLR is also lessened by knowing about morphogenetic fields and how they work beforehand.

One other thing I like about about 999 more than VLR was...
Spoiler: VLR (JM probably shouldn't open this)
999 story was extremely personal (the whole point of it was nothing more than to save Akane's life), which I really liked, whereas VLR was just one part of a gigantic plan to save the world. I get they were trying to make it grand and serious and stuff, but I just liked the smaller, more personal scale/scope of 999 a lot better.

Never played Portal so I can't say anything about that :yogi:

Though, I agree about the atmosphere. I never really felt in danger during this game. I kind of felt like I was going through the motions a lot
Spoiler:
A good example is comparing the Clover ending to the submarine ending. In the submarine ending, you feel like there's a killer on the loose and you're doing everything you can to get away from him/her. Then, June dies in your arms. Then, Seven and Lotus die. Then, you die, and you just wonder who could've done it. The Clover end was clearly going for immense shock value and heartbreak, but it didn't quite hit (though, the bodycount during the K and Luna endings did get a bit closer to that feeling)

Plus, I felt more danger the entire time. A ship sinking in nine hours seemed more pressing than staying in the facility forever. After my fifth game over of being trapped in the facility, I actually started to think it wouldn't be so bad to live in there considering we had years' worths of food and water.

And I agree about the story. When Junpei said, "I will save Akane Kurashiki", I felt determined and I got really nervous during the sudoku puzzle. When Sigma said, "I will change history", I just didn't care

A lot of the twists didn't work for me, either. I don't know. I thought Santa and June's bracelets having different number values was a better twist than being on the moon. Same with the twist that Akane was the girl who died nine years ago. The moon one just made think, "What?....um....alright."

Plus, I feel like I could explain the plot of 999 to somebody in 30-45 minutes, going through each ending and hitting all the essential details. With VLR, I wouldn't even know where to start

Though, these games have hit me with "expected unexpected plot twists" that I was surprisingly forgiving of. The thought that June was Zero crossed my mind in 999, but I thought it was dumb twist to make the person you trust most be Zero. The way it played it out in the game made it really clever, though, so I didn't care. Same with making Sigma Zero. It neve crossed my mind cause that's the first rule of detective fiction, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be (though, I still call BS on the fact that he didn't realize he wasn't young)

Also, I'm about a month late on this, but I just realized I accidentally posted my "review" of 999 in this thread, too. I only meant to edit it to add a question and must've accidentally submitted it to this thread. Whoops
Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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On the VLR website, there's a post-release Q&A section thing that answers a lot of questions and issues (just like they released for 999), so you should probably read that. But to answer the ones I remember...

JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler:
I will say that the game did surprise me in some areas. Luna's ending made me genuinely upset and I was afraid the game would make her the killer/Zero. This game didn't have many suspects after all (I immediately eliminated Sigma, Phi, Alice, Clover, Quark, and K from the suspect pool for obvious reasons. This left Tenmyioji, Dio, and Luna, and I didn't really think it was Tenmyioji). Yeah, Sigma was Zero so I was wrong, but the game broke one of Knox's Commandments so I didn't expect it
This isn't a question you had, but still one thing I want to say--I thought the characters were a lot deeper and cleverer in 999 than VLR. In 999, everyone had some sort of secret or hidden depth. Lotus seemed like a bimbo, but ended up being a strong, relatively motherly woman who was really just reacting to a crazy situation in a normal way. Ace seemed like a kind, strong leader, but ended up being a sadistic psychopath. Seven seemed like a goon, but was a detective. Contrast that with VLR, where the characters are very "what you see is what you get." Luna appears to be a kind young woman who ends up being... a kind young woman (robot, whatever). Quark seems like a precocious kid who ends up being... a precocious kid. Dio seems like a jerk villain who ends up being... a jerk villain.

-Ace was a member of Free the Soul.................okay
ikr =\

-In one of the paths, Tenmyouji tells Clover something that gets her to trust him. Did Tenmyouji tell Clover he was Junpei or that he knew Akane?
He told her he was Junpei

-Not really a plot hole, but I thought the tubocurine antidote could effectively be used in the ending where Sigma had five minutes to live. Instead, it had something to do with his arms? Like I said, not a plothole, but it is something I raised an eyebrow at
He poison would be injected into his arm. He used the exit door to crush his arm. Because his arm was prosthetic, it didn't hurt/kill him/bleed out.

-Where's Santa?
who knows

-Why do Alice and Tenmyouji always choose the opposite of me for the first AB game? It was brought up but never really explained. Phi just said that it was like Schrodinger's Cat
Just for whatever reason, there aren't timelines where you pick the same result. So it's like Schrodinger's Cat in that Alice/Tenmyouji might pick Ally or Betray, but you can't know which one it is until you "open the box" by picking ally or betray yourself.

-Ok, I know 999 had a plothole (Snake's bracelet not coming off with the prosthetic arm) but that wasn't a huge focal point of the plot. The big twist in the game makes absolutely no sense to me. At first, I thought it was kind of clever. We never see Sigma's face when results are displayed, people make comments about him looking old and being pervy, he doesn't have a VA, etc. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense, though. One, why didn't the mind of young Sigma realize his voice was significantly different? I realize he was infected with Radical-6 and his whole body felt weird, but he should've at least commented on it. Two, why did he never see his reflection? Zero could've made sure the facility had no reflective surfaces, but c'mon. There was a dirty mirror in the infirmary. Sigma could've decided it was necessary to clean it at one point for a puzzle. Scratch that cause it doesn't matter. EVERY SINGLE ROOM HAD A DARK COMPUTER MONITOR. Three, Sigma never touched his face? Really? The average person does it about three thousand times a day. If he felt tired, I'd say Sigma should've rubbed his eyes at one point and realized his eye was robotic. Four, at one point Sigma tells Phi he's twenty-two. This should've provoked a stronger reaction from her. Five, Clover, Phi, Alice, and Dio are very crass. Clover and Phi never call Sigma, "An eighty year old perv", Alice never comments about Sigma's appearance, and Dio doesn't ever call Sigma a "one-eyed fucker" in an argument or something. Nobody ever brings up Sigma's eye. Plus, Zero couldn't have planned a lot of variables that would've made Sigma realize. Like, what if Sigma rode the bunny ride instead of K and got his picture taken? I call bullshit on this entire twist
IIRC, there actually are a few jokes that reference this. But yeah, you're right, it's silly. My personal interpretation is that the things like his hair and his eye were actually just there for the player's perception, and in 'reality' Sigma had actually arranged himself physically so that he wouldn't give himself away to himself within 5 minutes of waking up.

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Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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Bad Player wrote:
On the VLR website, there's a post-release Q&A section thing that answers a lot of questions and issues (just like they released for 999), so you should probably read that. But to answer the ones I remember...

Wow. The FAQ did answer quite a few of my questions. This made me sad
Spoiler:
After the release of 999 we did marketing research in Japan for those who didn’t buy the game. Of the surveys that were taken there were people who stated that they refrained from purchasing because they felt like it would be too scary or gory.


As a result, the higher ups had given me orders to make the next installment more light. So with that I made the penalty of the Nonary Game “death with poison injection” as opposed to being blown up. And overall I tried to make the vibe less gloomy.


The Japanese version’s title is also made to be a bit of a pun. I also tried to make the conversation during the escape parts more light and witty.


And just between you and me…for the Japanese title, I’m honestly not happy with the higher up’s instruction on making it “light”. But if I don’t comply, they won’t allow me to make the game, so what can I do, right? This is the downside for a creator.


I heard in the movie industry there are cases where the production company will give orders and would even change an ending of a movie. (For example, “I Am Legend”). Please go ahead and think something of that sort happened with VLR.


So with that said, I’m sure you guys can conclude which mood I’d enjoy writing for more

JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler:
I will say that the game did surprise me in some areas. Luna's ending made me genuinely upset and I was afraid the game would make her the killer/Zero. This game didn't have many suspects after all (I immediately eliminated Sigma, Phi, Alice, Clover, Quark, and K from the suspect pool for obvious reasons. This left Tenmyioji, Dio, and Luna, and I didn't really think it was Tenmyioji). Yeah, Sigma was Zero so I was wrong, but the game broke one of Knox's Commandments so I didn't expect it
This isn't a question you had, but still one thing I want to say--I thought the characters were a lot deeper and cleverer in 999 than VLR. In 999, everyone had some sort of secret or hidden depth. Lotus seemed like a bimbo, but ended up being a strong, relatively motherly woman who was really just reacting to a crazy situation in a normal way. Ace seemed like a kind, strong leader, but ended up being a sadistic psychopath. Seven seemed like a goon, but was a detective. Contrast that with VLR, where the characters are very "what you see is what you get." Luna appears to be a kind young woman who ends up being... a kind young woman (robot, whatever). Quark seems like a precocious kid who ends up being... a precocious kid. Dio seems like a jerk villain who ends up being... a jerk villain.
I definitely agree with this. What I saw was what I got with a lot of the characters and if I didn't like what I saw...I mean, I hated Lotus in 999 at first and ended up loving her. I didn't experience that with any of the characters in this game besides Tenmyouji, but that was because I realized he was a character I liked in the last game

Dio is so strange to me (at least he was funny). He's the leader of a terrorist organization but he seems pretty dumb. If his goal is to win, why is he making it so every single person would have no reason to trust him? Plus, like someone in the FAQ brought up, he seems to heavily contradict all of the followings he claims to believe in. Though, it is funny looking back on his comment about how he's a fifth generation circus ringmaster knowing that he's full of shit

-Not really a plot hole, but I thought the tubocurine antidote could effectively be used in the ending where Sigma had five minutes to live. Instead, it had something to do with his arms? Like I said, not a plothole, but it is something I raised an eyebrow at
He poison would be injected into his arm. He used the exit door to crush his arm. Because his arm was prosthetic, it didn't hurt/kill him/bleed out.
Yeah, I understand that. I just thought that the antidote was also a viable solution. Maybe they didn't have it in that timeline, though. I can't really remember who went into what rooms

-Where's Santa?
who knows
I guess we might find out in the third...or not
Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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So you beat it huh?
Jesusmonroe wrote:


Spoiler: VLR
I will say that the game did surprise me in some areas. Luna's ending made me genuinely upset and I was afraid the game would make her the killer/Zero. This game didn't have many suspects after all (I immediately eliminated Sigma, Phi, Alice, Clover, Quark, and K from the suspect pool for obvious reasons. This left Tenmyioji, Dio, and Luna, and I didn't really think it was Tenmyioji). Yeah, Sigma was Zero so I was wrong, but the game broke one of Knox's Commandments so I didn't expect it.

Makes you feel like a jerk for suspecting Luna huh? Yeah I thought she was pretty suspicious too. I remember being convinced that Tenmyouji was Zero (the hologram looked old) at first and then upon greater reflection I was somehow convinced Old Snake was Zero (the clothing looked similar.)

-Not really a plot hole, but I thought the tubocurine antidote could effectively be used in the ending where Sigma had five minutes to live. Instead, it had something to do with his arms? Like I said, not a plothole, but it is something I raised an eyebrow at

Yeah, I understand that. I just thought that the antidote was also a viable solution. Maybe they didn't have it in that timeline, though. I can't really remember who went into what rooms

If you want to get really absurd, consider the replicator. The second you discover it there's nothing that says you can't reproduce enough Tubocurine with it to cure all of you. Then you have infinite time to just wait out the doors.

-Where's Santa?
who knows
I guess we might find out in the third...or not
Being honest I kind of assumed he died in the massive outbreak.

-Why do Alice and Tenmyouji always choose the opposite of me for the first AB game? It was brought up but never really explained. Phi just said that it was like Schrodinger's Cat
I'm not sure, I'm also curious as to how in one path Dio DOESN'T make Quark betray, normally he makes a whole bit about how you can't trust that kid. Then there's the line where Quark does ally as Dio's partner and Dio is just shocked.

Ok, I know 999 had a plothole (Snake's bracelet not coming off with the prosthetic arm) but that wasn't a huge focal point of the plot. The big twist in the game makes absolutely no sense to me. At first, I thought it was kind of clever. We never see Sigma's face when results are displayed, people make comments about him looking old and being pervy, he doesn't have a VA, etc. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense, though. One, why didn't the mind of young Sigma realize his voice was significantly different? I realize he was infected with Radical-6 and his whole body felt weird, but he should've at least commented on it. Two, why did he never see his reflection? Zero could've made sure the facility had no reflective surfaces, but c'mon. There was a dirty mirror in the infirmary. Sigma could've decided it was necessary to clean it at one point for a puzzle. Scratch that cause it doesn't matter. EVERY SINGLE ROOM HAD A DARK COMPUTER MONITOR. Three, Sigma never touched his face? Really? The average person does it about three thousand times a day. If he felt tired, I'd say Sigma should've rubbed his eyes at one point and realized his eye was robotic. Four, at one point Sigma tells Phi he's twenty-two. This should've provoked a stronger reaction from her. Five, Clover, Phi, Alice, and Dio are very crass. Clover and Phi never call Sigma, "An eighty year old perv", Alice never comments about Sigma's appearance, and Dio doesn't ever call Sigma a "one-eyed fucker" in an argument or something. Nobody ever brings up Sigma's eye. Plus, Zero couldn't have planned a lot of variables that would've made Sigma realize. Like, what if Sigma rode the bunny ride instead of K and got his picture taken? I call bullshit on this entire twist

This bothers me a lot but for different reasons. By VLR I know the game can use interface assumptions to it's advantage (after all 999 was all about that bottom screen). So I was instantly suspicious of the lack of voice actor for Sigma. It's just obvious now to me. Sigma should have heard his voice had aged somewhat. If they'd included a voice actor, the player would have heard it too. He's closer to Tenmyouji's age than Clover's so there would definitely be a noticeable change in his voice but no, nothing. The game fell apart the second I found out the twist.



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Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
-In one of the paths, Tenmyouji tells Clover something that gets her to trust him. Did Tenmyouji tell Clover he was Junpei or that he knew Akane?
He told her he was Junpei
Responding to this again because I remember why I asked this question. If she knew he was Junpei, shouldn't she have also figured out that she's been asleep for 45 years?

Pierre wrote:


Spoiler: VLR
Makes you feel like a jerk for suspecting Luna huh? Yeah I thought she was pretty suspicious too. I remember being convinced that Tenmyouji was Zero (the hologram looked old) at first and then upon greater reflection I was somehow convinced Old Snake was Zero (the clothing looked similar.)
I did feel like a jerk, especially since she was one of the better characters in the game. I felt so sorry for her :(

I didn't really make a guess on who Zero was based off of the hologram. I kind of just assumed it was like the rabbit, where Zero just designed a CG old man

This bothers me a lot but for different reasons. By VLR I know the game can use interface assumptions to it's advantage (after all 999 was all about that bottom screen). So I was instantly suspicious of the lack of voice actor for Sigma. It's just obvious now to me. Sigma should have heard his voice had aged somewhat. If they'd included a voice actor, the player would have heard it too. He's closer to Tenmyouji's age than Clover's so there would definitely be a noticeable change in his voice but no, nothing. The game fell apart the second I found out the twist.

The lack of a VA for Sigma didn't bother me, actually. It was just the typical silent protagonist. I think Aonuma already confirmed that if LoZ ever gets voice actors, Link is remaining silent. But yeah, he definitely should've noticed. I don't really buy the FAQ explanation of Radical-6 messing with Sigma, either. Maybe he's just like Ted Tonate and types his answers up before they display in a text box

Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title

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Spoiler:
I'm not entirely sure about this, but I believe the replicator couldn't just replicate any sort of medicine; it could only replicate vaccines. Tubocurine is a toxic muscle relaxant, so the cure wouldn't be a vaccine.
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blahmoomoo wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm not entirely sure about this, but I believe the replicator couldn't just replicate any sort of medicine; it could only replicate vaccines. Tubocurine is a toxic muscle relaxant, so the cure wouldn't be a vaccine.


Spoiler:
Apologies i meant a cure for Radical 6.

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Pierre wrote:
blahmoomoo wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm not entirely sure about this, but I believe the replicator couldn't just replicate any sort of medicine; it could only replicate vaccines. Tubocurine is a toxic muscle relaxant, so the cure wouldn't be a vaccine.


Spoiler:
Apologies i meant a cure for Radical 6.


Spoiler:
Nobody knew that everyone was infected until the true ending, so they had no need to vaccinate everyone. Also, considering those who were treated didn't suddenly perceive things differently than everyone else, I wonder if its effects were purposely weakened to not completely cure the (I assume weakened considering most people didn't have worsening conditions) Radical-6 infection.
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Spoiler:
One thing I never understood was that time that everyone seemed to be moving/speaking super-fast. We later "learned" that it was due to radical-6, which caused the person to move slower, hence everyone else seemed to move faster. But then we found out that everyone was already infected with radical-6, so... what was it early? Was he moving even slower? Was he infected with a new mutant strain, regular-6?!

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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
One thing I never understood was that time that everyone seemed to be moving/speaking super-fast. We later "learned" that it was due to radical-6, which caused the person to move slower, hence everyone else seemed to move faster. But then we found out that everyone was already infected with radical-6, so... what was it early? Was he moving even slower? Was he infected with a new mutant strain, regular-6?!

Spoiler:
My impression was that they were infected by a weakened strain of Radical-6 or something that only slowed them down by, well, radical 6 without further issues. But for whatever reason (Schrodinger's Cat reasons since it wasn't consistent among timelines?) it progressed even further with some people.
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Spoiler: New Question
Due to the many worlds theory, doesn't a universe where Radical-6 was never released already have to exist? What are we trying to accomplish in ZE3?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler: New Question
Due to the many worlds theory, doesn't a universe where Radical-6 was never released already have to exist? What are we trying to accomplish in ZE3?

Spoiler:
Most likely. But the game is just about this world/set of timelines, because that's the best story.

PS: Play this if you haven't yet.

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JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler: New Question
Due to the many worlds theory, doesn't a universe where Radical-6 was never released already have to exist? What are we trying to accomplish in ZE3?


Spoiler:
Perhaps, but I'm pretty sure the morphogenetic field time traveling stuff does not allow you to jump into specific alternate universes. It allows you to create them by jumping to a point within your universe and creating a new one as soon as you make a different choice (so practically immediately). So I guess you could think of it as this: the universe where Radical-6 doesn't kill humanity doesn't exist within Sigma's context, so he needs to make it exist.

Basically what Bad Player said in more words and with story context, because Bad Player is a tl;dr ninja.
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So, does anyone know why the third game was cancelled? I only know that it was cancelled. I'm fairly sure it did well, did it not?
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genodragon1 wrote:
So, does anyone know why the third game was cancelled? I only know that it was cancelled. I'm fairly sure it did well, did it not?


You can read it from the creator's mouth here https://twitter.com/Uchikoshi_Eng (just hit the End key twice; his tweet history isn't long).

Basically, both ZE games didn't do well in Japan, so ZE3 wasn't greenlit. So it's shelved for now. Might come back later if the publishers change their minds.
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blahmoomoo wrote:
genodragon1 wrote:
So, does anyone know why the third game was cancelled? I only know that it was cancelled. I'm fairly sure it did well, did it not?


You can read it from the creator's mouth here https://twitter.com/Uchikoshi_Eng (just hit the End key twice; his tweet history isn't long).

Basically, both ZE games didn't do well in Japan, so ZE3 wasn't greenlit. So it's shelved for now. Might come back later if the publishers change their minds.


Well, at least there's hope. Unlike my hopes for a direct sequel to Eternal Darkness or Beyond Good & Evil or a third Legend of Legaia or... wow, there's a lot of good games that could've used sequels. >__>

Though I did see a cute Clover plush. I'd definitely want one of those.
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Thank you both for the answers! And BP, I'll check out that link

Edit: Unexpectedly good. Very neat little flash game
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I think I realized why I much prefer the ending to 999 over VLR. The entire true ending path after defusing the bombs is basically just characters talking to each other and some plot twists. That's simplifying it, obviously, because there are good moments, but there's no element of danger or the idea that things are getting out of control or that you could very easily die like the 999 true end had

Also, Uchikoshi's twitter account is one of the saddest things I've ever read. I feel so bad for the poor guy. You can really tell it's breaking his heart

Has anyone played anything else by Uchikoshi? I know ZE is his best work, but I've heard good things about the Infinity series and I'm also interested in Stein's Gate

Edit: Also wanted to add that I've come to appreciate VLR a lot more in the past few weeks, though I still prefer 999. Blue Bird Lamentation might be in my top 3 for favorite video game songs ever and Tenmyouji is probably my favorite not-Santa Zero Escape character
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Has anyone played anything else by Uchikoshi? I know ZE is his best work, but I've heard good things about the Infinity series and I'm also interested in Stein's Gate

There was actually a promotion event thing a couple of months ago, so I got both Ever17 and Never7 for free on my comp~
(Haven't actually played either yet, tho)
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Bad Player wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
Has anyone played anything else by Uchikoshi? I know ZE is his best work, but I've heard good things about the Infinity series and I'm also interested in Stein's Gate

There was actually a promotion event thing a couple of months ago, so I got both Ever17 and Never7 for free on my comp~
(Haven't actually played either yet, tho)


Are those on GOG? I can't seem to find them on steam.
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It was a Japanese thing :P
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The fan translation of Never7 is pretty good, and the game itself is good too. It's VERY different from 999 though. It also starts out REALLY slow, but once you start heading down a character's path, it gets much more interesting.

I have played a bit of Ever17 and it's closer to 999 in terms of the twists and being stuck in a place, but I haven't played enough to have a solid opinion of it. I hear it is really good though. However, the translation I have (which I'm pretty sure is the official one) is horrendous. From what I recall, it has a ton of translation errors and it seems to be overly simplistic.

There is also at least one other KID game that I haven't tried yet.
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I had a question pop in my head today. I'm curious about the general fanbase and whether or not they (specifically Pierre and BadPlayer) think Phi is a Mary Sue? I'm not trying to start anything or trap you guys into an answer. I'm just curious
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Nah

I mean, the story centers around her (and Sigma), but that's the whole point of the story. There's nothing particularly special or extraordinary about Phi, except her morphogenetic field powers, but that's the whole reason she's there. She gets a central role because she has those powers, not the other way around.

(Heck, Sigma is probably more of a Stu/Sue than Phi, considering how he invented all that insane technology xP)
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I guess that's true. I mean, the morphogenetic field has been explained pretty thoroughly but there hasn't been much of an explanation on how espers are specifically chosen (or how Phi and Sigma didn't absorb each other *cough*). I guess I was more focusing on Phi because we really don't know shit about her by the end of the game

Anyway, I actually really liked Phi. She's high up there in ZE characters and was my favorite VLR character besides Tenmyouji (probably something like Santa>Junpei>Tenmyouji>Phi>Ace>Akane>...I don't really wanna figure out the rest of this list right now. Alice is last). She's also kind of impressive considering she's an easy character to screw up when writing

Funny you bring up Sigma, though. I was actually thinking that his character was kind of strange the other day
Spoiler:
At the end of the game, he basically finds out he needs to spend the rest of his life learning AI, genetic engineering, cloning, and other shit for the sake of the AB Project and he doesn't even care. I mean, I know he's dedicated to saving the world, but it seems like he didn't even care at all. Junpei felt kind of realistic with his selfish (but relatable) desire to not prevent the outbreak and just let history play out the way it's meant to
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Another way to phrase it is that VLR is about someone with esper powers--no matter who that person may be--and that person just happened to be Phi. We don't know why Phi has those powers, but they don't seem to be the result of any other special aspect of her, and they're the sole reason she's there.

If you compare it with Athena (since I assume that's why you specifically mentioned me when bringing up Mary Sues :sahwit: ), she doesn't fit just 'one role' like that. Why is she in the game? Is it because she was an attorney (that joined WAA)? Is it because she had magic emotion powers? Because she was Metis Cykes' daughter (and so became a witness to Metis' murder)? Now, I know those aren't totally unrelated in-game, but there also isn't anything necessarily linking any of those roles together. (It would make the cast super-bloated, but I think it's very easy to imagine giving each of those roles to three distinct characters.) Piling all these roles into one character in an unrealistic way (18 year old multi-lingual psychologist attorney with a reclusive and traumatic past) turned her into a Mary Sue. It also didn't help that the reason the game focused on Metis' murder/Athena's story--tying it into the dark age of law--was really stupid. (As a story, I liked the reason behind the Nonary Game a lot more in 999 than VLR, but I gotta admit that preventing the apocalypse is a pretty good reason for doing stuff.)

(I'm trying to start a debate about Athena or anything, I'm just further elaborating my opinion on Mary Sues since it was brought up, using Athena as an example.)
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Spoiler: VLR in regards to your question JMonroe
Nah everything didn't seem to gravitate towards Phi. I was curious about her and I guess I considered her pretty much parallel and on par with Sigma himself. Sigma nor Phi were especially outstanding, her powers weren't quite as developed as Sigma's after all. She doesn't take over everything and always seems to stay kinda on the outside of things. She let the rest of the cast have their moment and never really outshined Sigma.


In short, I had no real trouble with her.
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Re: [PAL as well!] Virtue's Last Reward: 999 Sequel (3DS/VitTopic%20Title

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Hey,
The other day I read about a fan-made game called Adrift in a Cobalt Eternity whose makers are claming will help fund ZE3.
It looks really interesting actually, it even has composers from Xenoblade and 999/VLR (!) on the soundtrack, so I cant wait for this.

https://twitter.com/cobalteternity/stat ... 1954488320
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http://gematsu.com/2014/12/japanese-dev ... iii-pokken

"It’s looking like 2015 will be the year where everything I’ve built up over the years will come together and be let out into the world in one fell swoop.”-Kotaro Uchikoshi

grim_tales wrote:
Hey,
The other day I read about a fan-made game called Adrift in a Cobalt Eternity whose makers are claming will help fund ZE3.
It looks really interesting actually, it even has composers from Xenoblade and 999/VLR (!) on the soundtrack, so I cant wait for this.

https://twitter.com/cobalteternity/stat ... 1954488320

Sounds interesting. I'll keep an eye out for it
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Of course Uchikoshi isnt saying one title will be ZE3, but we can hope I guess :D
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Damn,we finally get possible news about ZE3 and it's something as cryptic as that.
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grim_tales wrote:
Hey,
The other day I read about a fan-made game called Adrift in a Cobalt Eternity whose makers are claming will help fund ZE3.
It looks really interesting actually, it even has composers from Xenoblade and 999/VLR (!) on the soundtrack, so I cant wait for this.

https://twitter.com/cobalteternity/stat ... 1954488320



I'm one of the two writers for this project, surprised and glad to see it reached court records :) since it will heavily feature whodunnits/howdunnits to crack, I might as well create an official topic around here in case you guys are interested :)

Thank you for your interest in the project in any case, I can guarantee you the story and soundtracks are something really special, and even with medium sales, there's a lot we could eventually do to help pull ZE3 out of limbo !
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Making a topic/thread for the game sounds neat :) It's also been mentioned on NeoGAF. It's really cool that Uchikoshi himself seems to like the idea.
Spoiler:
I do like how so many 'predictable' twists have been refuted on the poster :D


Is there a rough release date for the game yet (I know these things take massive time, and your team is small).
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grim_tales wrote:
Making a topic/thread for the game sounds neat :) It's also been mentioned on NeoGAF. It's really cool that Uchikoshi himself seems to like the idea.
Spoiler:
I do like how so many 'predictable' twists have been refuted on the poster :D


Is there a rough release date for the game yet (I know these things take massive time, and your team is small).



I'll make sure to do this as soon as we have an official site to show then ! :shoe:

Actually, to be accurate, when we mentionned an original zero escape team member that was excited to participate, we meant Mr. Shinji Hosoe, who very quickly approved of the project and said he'd like to participate ! He also told me how to contact Mr. Uchikoshi and was the first to mention the project to him, but I can't speak for Mr. Uchikoshi regarding his stance on our project : my best guess is that there are some things he can't necessarily share at the time, and more importantly, that he's waiting to see if and when Adrift in a Cobalt Eternity comes to fruitition before he makes an official statement, which is totally understandable !

Regarding the release window : we're now strongly considering seeking help through a crowdfunding of some sort to give us more leverage, to improve the direction and atmosphere of the game with more music and backgrounds, and to delegate some tasks (like the programming and the translation) to fasten the development. So in the best case scenario, if everything goes as planned and said crowdfunding is successfully done let's say next month, we're giving ourselves 3-4 months to wrap up the script after that, 4 months for the creation of the rest of the visual/sound assets and for the translation, and 2 months for putting the game together. Which roughly leads us somewhere in november ! The plot is quite advanced and there's no major programming issue, so if nothing changes until then, no big delay should come up.

Thank you for your interest, yes we thought the poster was a good and simple way to show we mean business :shoe: there are tons of others well known twists the story subverts and/or avoids, but we couldn't mention them on the poster since at first it will feel like the game plays them straight :javado:
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Thank you very much ^^ I didnt realise Mr. Uchikoshi's exact stance on this, I assumed he had given the project blessing or something like that, theres a tweet on his English page isnt there? But I understand what youre saying.
If you consider crowdfunding/kickstarter of some kind I'm sure I'd donate :)
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