My favourite 3D Zelda has got to be The Wind Waker. I love the art-style, the music, and just the... general sense of ADVENTURE by sailing in the wide open sea.

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Sounds like PBG. I have nothing against Wind Waker itself, it's a fun game... I just found the sailing so tedious... the world map was too large, there was nothing really to keep me going, not even a sense of Adventure. Sitting on a boat, staring at blue sky and blue sea for about 5 minutes before I may see the shadow of an island is not an Adventure for me...
By the way, with this I'm referring to the GC version, not the "We made the world smaller and changed a few control things" WiiU version.

And again someone who loves Ocarina and mentions a nostalgic feeling with it...
I was eight when Ocarina came out and I played it, but I just don't feel any Nostalgia for it... is that weird? Then again, I recently noticed my problem with Ocarina (and Majora) is that I feel bored when playing the game.

My favorite Zeldas are definitely Twilight Princess and Skyward, both at number one. Twilight Princess I like the characters (except Ilia) and the atmosphere, the art style. I don't see it as trying very hard to be dark or being very dark. But in Skyward I liked the characters (except Zelda) and the villain was awesome, which is where TP failed for me, and the art style and the controls and the dungeons... I love the Ancient Cistern! Favorite dungeon design in terms of appearance and mechanic!

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Can't wait to get "A Link Between Worlds" I liked the way it looked during the trailers so i hope its just as good when it comes out.

Heh. The funny thing for me was that TP felt waaaaay too empty. I got bored with the world there because it felt like Nintendo was trying to make the world super dark... But pointlessly dark.

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Indeed I feel like TP's Hyrule Field is very empty, although it technically isn't with the caves you can find and the Golden Bugs. But overall, problem is that it feels empty, which keeps me from wanting to really explore it. I may go through a handful of caves if I notice them, but once you can teleport after you get the Master Sword, I barely ever am on the field anymore.

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Personally, I find sailing around the open sea fun. Especially when you're not sure what you're going to find. It might become more tedious if you've already played the game once, but it still has a great atmosphere that's fun to explore even if you know what's coming.

However, I've always thought that if they made the sea more interesting to look at it, it would improve the experience much more. Like in Skyward Sword, the sea was beautiful, but it was such a small area. :/

I don't feel any nostalgia for OoT either. It was one of the first Zelda game I played and I do have many fond memories, but that's all.

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I can't even say that I have fond memories of it. I think I felt bored playing the game, even when I was a kid.



Hah, that is a great area in Skyward. I love the water areas in most Zelda games. Especially the Ancient Cistern and the Sand Sea, those are just breathtakingly beautiful to look at.

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How could you get bored of one of the greatest Zelda games out there right next to Majora Mask, wind waker, and the old games.

Ocarina of Time isn't really that great. Sure, it's a good game, but it's certainly not the greatest game of all time.

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its still one of the greatest games but i never said " The Greatest game of them all"

It... Even isn't one of the greatest games I've played. There are a LOT of games I'd rank as better than OoT. It's similar to Super Mario 64. Revolutionary? Yes. But does it hold its age well? Not really.

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I still enjoy playing it to this day, it never looses its value to me because its a nice freshness instead of always hearing and playing shooting games

Majora I disliked and feel bored because it's literally repeating the same thing over and over, it's like the game is replaying itself whenever I go back in time, which ruins any actual replayability the game could have. And every time I play the game, I try to finish it, I try to not do too many sidequests beforehand and yet I still get freaking bored of the game as soon as I get the Zora mask.
And I've mentioned what a fucking shit scene Mikau's death is and not in a "OmG this makes me so sad" way, but more in a "What the fuck made you think you needed that in this game?" way. Especially since my next problem with Majora is this: It tried way too hard to be dark.

Everyone is gonna die! Everyone is somehow in some shit trouble! This person is sad! And that person is sad! And this other person is also sad! Everyone is sad! You should feel sad, too! Because they're all gonna die! And that is very sad!
By fucking God, can it already! And if they want the game to be seen as so freaking sad and dark and edgey and serious, why the fuck do they have Mikau suddenly bounce up, despite lacking energy, play his fucking guitar and then flop back onto the ground? It ruins any mood the previous scene may have had, ruins the mood afterwards and just leaves me feeling confused because it's so fucking stupid. They treated the Deku scrub's death mysterious and sad, Darmani was portrayed decently enough, so why make Mikau dying in front of us such a fuck-ass joke?

The characters in Majora are the dumbest I have encountered since the Gorons in Ocarina. The postman won't leave the doomed town cause it's not on his schedule? Dude, fuck the schedule, where is your survival instinct? Go into survival mode and leave the fucking place! And Anju and Kafei are morons for deciding to rather die, waiting for a promise that they may not be able to fulfill, rather than run off and try to meet each other elsewhere. Because I think that, if those two love each other as much as we're supposed to think they do, they should be able to trust each other enough to know that they love each other and would run away, maybe meeting in a different place at a better time.

As for Ocarina, as I said, I feel very bored when playing the game. I can't explain why, I just feel bored. Also, the Gorons were fucking Morons in that game. Oh no, we Gorons who eat rocks are stumped by a boulder, which is a rock, blocking the entrance to our food supply cave. Whatever shall we do? Eat the boulder ourselves? That's a stupid idea, we'd rather starve to death and become extinct than do that.
Why do I have to help these people again? Just let Volvagia eat them, 7 years later, it'll do the world a favor.
And don't tell me the Dodongos would be much of a threat to them, if they managed to get the boulder away. Gorons are immune to fire, after all, and they punch like crazy. Plus, in Master Quest, the Dodongo Cavern has no Dodongos in it. (What the fuck?)

And I overall have nothing against Wind Waker. It's a fun game, I just find the sailing to be incredibly tedious and flawed, some of which they have taken care of in Waker WiiU, but overall still an enjoyable game. I just dislike that they tried to make it connect to Ocarina.
Wind Waker doesn't need Ocarina to stand on its own.
And the Ocarina ties to Waker just feel off. There was no need to somehow say that it was literally the Ocarina-Hyrule that got flooded. Just say that the Goddesses (why did it change to Gods in Waker?) got tired of everyone in Hyrule being such a lazy sack of potatoes that waits for others to do their most meaningless jobs and got rid of them the fastest way they knew.

And why the fuck are Zora, fish people that live in the sea, not flourishing in this world? Sure you can say they live in Freshwater and not Saltwater, but if these Zora evolved into fucking Birds, I think they would've done much better simply evolving into fish living in Saltwater.
And why the fuck was a Zora the sage of the Earth Temple? Especially considering you can't maneuvre through that place without wings. Why isn't a Goron the Earth Sage? Especially since we know Gorons exist in Waker and did not need to evolve at all. The stone people did not have to evolve into a difference species in a world covered by water, but the fish people did.

Can you see why I think trying to have Waker connect to Ocarina is stupid? Because it doesn't make sense, it brings up a ton more questions than it answers. Just take the Ocarina backstory out of Waker and the game would be fine on its own, the backstory doesn't even add that much to the game.

About Waker: Good game, just the sailing is tedious and the Ocarina backstory is moot.



Yeah well, if you just play shooting games, that's your own fault.

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Parts of Ocarina I find tedious, but there are also areas I enjoy, like the water temple. I wouldn't say it was best game ever made though.

As for Wind Waker, I agree with just about everything you said. I also questioned how the Zora's evolved and not the Gorons. I'm sure Nintendo can think of some reason, but it would be much easier to drop the whole Ocarina beginning. Also, how did the Zora's turn into birds? Wouldn't they just chose to walk on land if they couldn't swim in saltwater? Maybe they would end up looking more human, but growing wings seems like too much of a stretch.

The Gorons were stupid in Ocarina, but isn't it the same in other Zeldas? The job is left to you because no one else can be bothered. It would be great if the story was more realistic.

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Regarding the Zoras turning into the Ritos, I think they stated somewhere in the game that the Great Sea is fishless...

Then again, if that's true, why do the map fish exist?

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Maybe they aren't actually fish.

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Mhmh, Matthew mentioned that in his review of Wind Waker. Personally I wonder how the sea can be called fishless if we have sharks swimming in it... sharks are fish, right? Even if they are evil, they are still fish.



Of course the entire population has to be too stupid to be allowed to exist in games, so the hero can be all heroic and stuff. It's just that the Goron example in Ocarina just seemed a little TOO STUPID to me. I mean, there's dumb... and then there's really fucking dumb.

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So I haven't finished Link Between Worlds yet but it's fantastic. Plays just like LttP, so that means more focus on fast action than puzzles. Not that there aren't puzzles, they just tend to be a bit more subtle than in recent games. No annoying sidekicks giving you unwanted help all the time, you're mostly left to figure things out on your own (there ARE "hint ghosts", I guess, but I don't use them and their advice costs Play Coins.)

Probably the biggest change is how almost all the tools and subweapons are found in the weapon shop instead of the dungeons. You can rent as many at a time as you want for a nominal fee and keep them until you die, or you can buy them outright. So just rent everything, keep a good supply of bottled fairies, and don't suck, right? You could do that, but there's a way to upgrade your weapons which you can't utilize unless you own them. (Upgrading consists of searching the world for adorable baby squid-like critters and bringing them back to mama, at which point she'll soup up one piece of gear for every ten kids you return.) The other major upside to getting access to your items right away is being able to complete most of the dungeons in any damn order you want.

Not everything is perfect, of course - what is?



Overall, though, an excellent game in the series. Everyone but Cat should check it out.

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I actually beat it Last night and loved every second of the game. The ending was nice and sweet plus had a very good plot twist. Only thing that sucked was the dungeons was pretty easy but luckly after you beat it you unlock Hero Mode.

I'd been contemplating getting it yeah, heard it's real magical and wondrous and I had some real fond memories of LttP despite not finishing it. I'd heard a rumour it was on the e-shop but no dice, all they had there was Link's Awakening and the Oracle games, which I'm sure are both nice.

I guess it boils down to this: Do I need to have completed LttP to get it?

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You definitely need to get it. It is really magical and wondrous especially the artwork when you have the 3D on. You dont need to beat it to play it, Its more like a reboot. Also its on E-shop im looking at it right now.

Yeah, all that really gets spoiled for LttP is "Link wins".

And yes Link's Awakening and the Oracle games are excellent as well.

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When you buy the game at gamestop they give you a code to get Oracle of Seasons for free

Stop it! You just spoiled every Zelda game in the franchise! Shame on you! Don't you dare spoil Super Mario 3D World for me too!!!

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You mean when Mario wins and Luigi is shunned xD

Because the timelines are fucking insane and make no sense.
Miyamoto simply wanted to make a game series of Adventures, but then fans decided to try to make everything connected and make sense although they can't. Then Aonuma agreed and said "We SHOULD have them all connected in a timeline... Oh wait, this contradicts each other... Uh.... uh .... yeah, this is a split timeline. Do do doo~"

Seriously! All the timelines contradict each other in some way. Why are there fans who play Zelda and seem incapable of dealing with the fact that the games DON'T HAVE TO BE CONNECTED all the time? Just play the fucking games!

Heck, I was told that Minish Cap was the first in the timeline.
I played it and it made no freaking sense as an "origin story" or any crap like that.
The only thing it kind of explained is where Link's hat came from.
And that is just bullshit, making a game for that ONE THING that nobody should care about.
What does it MATTER where his fucking hat came from?
Now if I were to play Minish Cap again, which I don't feel like doing - it was too short and felt rushed, I would not try to see any kind of origin in anything and I would enjoy the game a ton more.

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Personally, I have never cared for a timeline. The more focused they are at making a good gameplay, plot and characters, then I'm OK with whatever they do with the series.

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The only game with a "timeline" I actually cared about was Wind Waker. I liked the back story of how the goddesses had to flood Hyrule to lock away Ganon. I like the subtle tie ins to Ocarina of Time as far as the environment goes. I like the whole idea of dressing in tradition because of the legends and whatnot. I like the Wind Waker remixes of Kakariko Village and Kokiri Woods. Is it all corny? Yes. Am I fanboying because I find Wind Waker to be an amazing game? Probably. But it's the only game in the series where I really like the timeline tie-in.

I suppose Twilight Princess does a good job about it too with the whole sword skills thing, that I thought was pretty neat, having the Hero of Time teaching you his moves, though he never knew a lick of any of them in the games he was in, it was still a nice reference.

Overall though, I don't really care for timelines. I do enjoy it more when the games make subtle references from past games without it being too overly done. The only game that I don't mind doing that is Wind Waker.

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In summation: we should treat The Legend of Zelda like Final Fantasy.

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That's pretty much what I do. I don't really pay attention to any timeline and just enjoy each Zelda game for what they are.

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Correct, even though to some Twilight Princess was a: OH MY GOD NINTENDO FAILED TO USE ITS GINOURMOUS OVERWORLD! It still delivered a nice, cinematic like narrative with a grand overworld where new things could be discovered, there were always enemies, finding golden bugs was kinda hard and horseback battles were EPIC!

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I dunno, I don't think that the Ocarina references to Wind Waker were subtle or that they were done well. I've already stated, I think Wind Waker could h ave worked just fine on its own, it didn't need Ocarina as a backstory. The Goddess could have simply decided to flood Hyrule for some reason, it doesn't matter. Or heck, instead of the Goddess (or Gods, as it strangely enough is in Wind Waker) flooding Hyrule, just let a natural catastrophe flood Hyrule.

The stained glass windows of the 7 Sages in the castle, I'll let those go, those are a nice little reference. They don't really get forced into your face whenever you're inside the castle, they are just there.

And an attempt to make the Rito have a connection to the Zora, the Zora being Earth Sages and not the Gorons, the Gorons being the one to have no need to evolve in a world filled ith water... it doesn't just make no sense, it's also silly to do the first Ocarina connection with Ruto > Laruto > Rito.

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Well, I don't know if this might make any more sense about the Zora becoming Rito, but there is a piece of dialogue I noticed during this playthrough that mentioned that there are no sea creatures living in the sea at all, claiming only monsters live in the sea. My guess is that the Zora evolved into the Rito so they wouldn't be forced to live among all the monsters. Then again, doesn't really explain the fishmen you give the bait to, but whatever, I still like the game.

I didn't say that all references to Ocarina were subtle either, I was mentioning more so the fact the subtlety of Ocarina found within the environment itself, not the story. For example, the music pieces found on Outset and Windfall and how they're Ocarina remixes. No, the whole story is pretty blatant about referencing Ocarina, but I enjoyed the more subtle references over the more blatant ones. Sorry I wasn't too clear on that.

It really being the first Zelda game to serve as a sequel to another one that doesn't have the same Link, I think it did a good job in my opinion.

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Really? I can't remember there being any mention of sorts regarding the sea being filled with monsters, just that the Goddesses decided to flood it because it was too corrupted.

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Yeah, the subtle nods to OoT's OST were quite cool.

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But we all have to agree on one thing: WW's intro song is awesome.

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Please, all of WW's OST is amazing.

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Touché.

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Yeah, I didn't remember either. I don't remember when it was, but I want to say it was a conversation I had around Dragon Roost island. It was mentioned that there are really no sea creatures at all living in the ocean and it's instead infested with monsters. I'm curious why I never noticed that until now, it doesn't seem like throwaway text I'd easily forget.

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Only time I remember it being mentioned that no thing can live in the waters is Ganon(dorf.... the game keeps switching) during the second stint at the Fuck Fortress.

Waker's OST was... alright, I guess. Some of them are very nice, but I know that the BGM for the Earth Temple bugged me a lot after a short while. And the music while sailing! Aaaaaaaaargh, it's a fucking earworm that I don't want!

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