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Time Hollow - I forsee epicness the size of PW.Topic%20Title
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Time Hollow

So, yeah. This game came out today, and I finished it.

And.

It was just way too epic to put down.

Really.

So yeah, here's the rough storyline.

Basically, you're this boy named Ethan who has this pen called the Hollow Pen, that when you draw a circle with it in the air, you can see into the past, and be able to change the future.

So you gotta change the fates of characters in the story, like preventing a girl from being crushed by a fridge, or your clubhouse dog being struck by lighting years ago, and a girl who got pushed off a building when your uncle was still in school, etc.

And nobody's heard of it because Konami sucked ballz and didn't bother to market or advertise such a great game.

If you liked the Ace Attorney and Hotel Dusk series you'll love this.
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Sounds interesting. How does it work? (in terms of game mechanics)
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Blackbird wrote:
Sounds interesting. How does it work? (in terms of game mechanics)


Picture a setting similar to Famicom Detective Club, a PW style investigation phase (But much better), a Hotel Dusk deep Time based Plot, and a cast of not-so-epic characters put in epic situations, and it has Movies about as frequent as in Smash Bros Brawl.

I still haven't beaten the game yet, but I've started to rip the Japanese Site, check the detective thread in WHAT A,
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Cross-examining your posts!

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I've been wanting this game, but I have no money right now... :sadshoe:
Formerly Avenger...
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I'd say

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hmm, Perhaps a bit off topic but could somebody rip the backgrounds of this?
Might be usefull for Casemakers, Sprite comcs,etc.
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Ceres wrote:
hmm, Perhaps a bit off topic but could somebody rip the backgrounds of this?
Might be usefull for Casemakers, Sprite comcs,etc.


They won't be as easy to work with as PW Backgrounds, seeing as for this game the background is layered, I'm ripping the Japanese site, so I'll see what I can come up with, though I'm focusing on the audio at the moment.
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I just finished Time Hollow it is good I am looking forward to a sequel but I doubt they have it. It is a lot better then Jake Detective! Though it would have been nice if...

Major Spoilers after the ending

Spoiler:
You only get the option to end the game a lot faster the second time around by choosing the option to talk to the bad guy before he get rid of your parents.

It would have been nice to see multiply endings for example one where Ethan gets killed before he can push his uncle Derek through the hole and save Kori. etc.

I would have liked to see a scene where he wakes up in bed and he has white hair just like his dad because he used the Hollow Pen too much and aged as a result. Also if there was an explantion on why young Irving left high school after Kori was saved with his mother even though she tried in the past to stop her son and failed.

For some reason I also wished they explained why Ben wanted to turn himself in for attacking the waitress girl's boyfriend outside the Chronos cafe. Even with the pliars found near the bike where the brake wires on the handles were cut I went through half the game thinking either her boyfriend or Ben was the one who cut the brakes. When I figured out in the end it was Irving.

Now I can't get the imagine of creepy stalker Ben out of my head. :grey:


Looking forward to the sprite rips! :phoenix:
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whata/new-detective-game-coming-out-t8752-40.html#p719971

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Going to pick this up in an hour. Gawd, I can't wait, I've been watching this since it was first announced. :godot:

Also have an avatar-sized Sox I ripped a week or so ago.

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D'AWWWWWW
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This has been on my radar for possible purchase, some good impressions so far, might grab this then :)
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I'd say

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Wow Already?, thanks Wooster.
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Shion wrote:
I just finished Time Hollow it is good I am looking forward to a sequel but I doubt they have it. It is a lot better then Jake Detective!

Justified, there are claims that Jake Detective was not really done well in the localization process and that there were a lot of things omitted from the Japanese version.
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Just got it. :D

I hear Konami put a lot into this, with the possibility for a sequel, so who knows.
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I just finished the game, and I started getting confused towards the end. Could someone explain one thing for me?

Spoiler: End of the game
What was going on with the whole Irving/Jack thing? I know he did an explanation with a million dollars going through time, but I really didn't get it.
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You beat it in a day?....Sounds short...But very interesting indeed.
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You know, I never heard of this until like a few days ago. But from what I read, it seems pretty interesting. Maybe I should consder picking it up. Has any even seen reviews for this game?
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Nintendo Power gave is a 7 because, although interesting and innovative, it mentions something like that there were a lot of missed opportunities to do certain objectives/wasn't very satisfying experience.

EDIT: Oh whaddya know, their names are puns too. Too bad their Western names didn't keep this </3
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BigFish wrote:
I just finished the game, and I started getting confused towards the end. Could someone explain one thing for me?

Spoiler: End of the game
What was going on with the whole Irving/Jack thing? I know he did an explanation with a million dollars going through time, but I really didn't get it.


Spoiler: Response to Spoiler
Here's as best as I understand it.

Timeline 1)
'Real' Jack is your homeroom teacher, and Irving owns an antique shop. You confront Irving and he jumps through time.

Timeline 2)
Timeline 1's Irving finds the Timeline 2's Irving. Timeline 2's Jack is killed at some point, and Timeline 2's Irving renames himself/becomes Jack. I don't remember what happened to Timeline 1's Irving in Timeline 2, he might've died/committed suicide. If not, then he ceased to exist when Timeline 2's Irving/'Jack' did not open a portal to Timeline 3, thus maintaining continuity.


The point 'Jack' was trying to make with the multiplying million dollars was that the two million dollars will only exist simultaneously in the past. When it becomes the present, you still have to send your money back in time for you to have had 2 million dollars in the past. In anycase, his question is 'How much money will you have now?' It remains 1 million dollars.


Anyways, now that I've beaten the game. Here's my post gameplay review.

Spoiler:
The game was good, not nearly as good as Famicom Detective Club, nor Hotel Dusk, nor Professor Layton. But it was a solid title. The writers had a great understanding of Science Fiction Temporal Mechanics with Action Preceding Reaction. But the game was lacking in terms of active parties.

The only characters I ended up liking in the end were Morris, Irving, Emily/Ashley, and Jacob. And that's it, liked. No strong attachments to any of the characters.

Morris was one I originally wasn't interested in, the archetypically studious stiff neck. Then he becomes your Maya for a chapter, so things get a little interesting, then he begs you to change his test score, and wow this looks like it could develop into something dangerous. Then time changes and he's a drop out and his personality does a 180. He's happier, but you've destroyed everything he's ever done or tried to accomplish. It was only then that I could actually really appreciate the consequences of playing with time. It's not all about undoing things and making the world a better place, there are serious consequences and possibilities we could never have anticipated.

Irving is Sephiroph. They both have Mommy issues. But unlike Sephiroph, I could actually appreciate the pain this character went through. You change time to save his mother, and she dies, and you save her, and she dies again, and again and again. It's yours, the player's fault, that she gets killed over and over again, even if she's never aware of the repeat killings. You, Kori, and Irving are with the Flashbacks. For this, I can appreciate him being a villain and going mad. If this wasn't so beautifully crafted, I couldn't have cared about this guy. And for the record, I hate Sephiroph, he's a very boring, over rated villain with broken motives. For this guy to have similar problems and to do it right is impressive, since I've been turned off by Mommy deserves vengeance stories after I played FFVII.

For Emily and Ashley, they were the only characters with any sort of dynamic and personal motives. Shopping, Fighting, Running, Making up, baking cookies, trying to impress Ethan. Everyone else in the story only reacted to situations they were put in. No one was trying to do different things in each chapter. These characters were sweet, but forgettable. This is a disappointment coming from Hotel Dusk, where every character has their own separate backstory and is actively doing things to move the plot forward. These girls did their part where it concerned them, but the lack of activity by the cast at large made for a flat cast.

Jacob I can forgive for being flat. He's young, and he's not a major cast member. But you learn everything you'd ever need to learn about him. He listens to his Mom, doesn't trust strangers, and loves his Dog. When I first learned that a dog got killed instead of the waitress, I thought 'so what', it might be a stray or something. AT least it wasn't a person or someone plot relevant. Then you meet Jacob, and see the items he laid out in memorial. And you talk with him, he doesn't know you, and doesn't blame you for the death of his puppy, after all, chronologically you didn't do anything to make the fridge fall on the dog, nor was it your intent. In fact he remains clueless. as he should.

But man I felt like a monster. Just a scene earlier I couldn't have cared less about the dog. It really caused me to self reflect.

And then there is super spoiler person, the key to the events that happened in the game. When you finally meet this person and learn what set into place all the events that occurred, like the repeat Mother killings/flash backs, it's an 'Aaaaaaah, now I understand' moment. This person answers questions you didn't know you had but totally fit into the greater puzzle. The final 'plot' twist. I have infinite respect for her.

I've been harsh on the characters, and it's justified, because that really is the weak point of the game. But don't let that deceive you into thinking the game is a throw away. What the game lacks in memorable characters, it really makes up in gameplay / playing with the time line. It's always amazing seeing action, reaction, preaction unfold. It gives the game it's own special dynamic that is missing from all the great adventure games like Hotel Dusk, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, and Trace Memory.


Speaking of Trace Memory, I can't help but wonder what the game might've been like if Ethan and Kori were replaced with Ashley and D. Yeah. If Cing was allowed to use their deep characters (And amazing DS puzzles) in this story's plot and theme this could've easily been one of the best adventure games ever. A satisfying Trace Memory 2.

... Now I wish I was thinking Trace Memory 2 when I was first playing this game. I might've enjoyed it even more.

In short,

The Good:
Great Concept,
Great Motives,
Innovative Scenery,
Appropriate sound track.
Good art

The Bad:
Flat Characters
Short Game
No Puzzles
No Side Quests/Stories

The What?:
Why is the map so big?
Vin's house, why is it even selectable on the map? It's not important at all, even when you do visit for the plot.
Vin, his accident, why did we never try to fix it?

Makes me think that Vin's role was cut short in production.
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Re: Time Hollow - I forsee epicness the size of PW.Topic%20Title
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Wooster wrote:
Vin, his accident, why did we never try to fix it?


Spoiler:
You can fix it when you're preventing the arson at the secret hideout in Chapter 5. When you open the Hole, choose the ladder instead of the burning paper, then examine it. Ethan'll fix it and Vin'll never fall off it. It'll cost you an extra tic of time to do so, but it's all but impossible to run out anyways.


Anyways, up to partway through chapter 5. The antagonist's a real dick, ain't s/he?
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Watatata~! wrote:
Nintendo Power gave is a 7 because, although interesting and innovative, it mentions something like that there were a lot of missed opportunities to do certain objectives/wasn't very satisfying experience.

EDIT: Oh whaddya know, their names are puns too. Too bad their Western names didn't keep this </3


What?

Yes they did. The puns were the clock numbers in their last names, and those were kept.

Though if you mean The puns on the Kairos' family names, then yeah... (Though from what I hear Ethan's name is also a pun on The Japanese pronunciation of 'Hollow'...)

And yeah, no one has heard of this game as I expected. It was worth playing, so if you liked the game, get other people to play it!

Last edited by Takuya on Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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This sounds like an interesting game, I'd like to have a game to take with me on a long vacation in November. At least it may tide me over til GS5/PP comes out...
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I finished the game.

tl;dr M-M-M-MINDF-CK

One thing I didn't get, though it's probably obvious...

Spoiler: Whole game
So Mary is the one making herself get killed in the past... why? Is it just to 'atone' for giving birth to Irving? Is she trying to kill him off too so he never tries to kill Kori?

I didn't quite get that bit. :sadshoe:


Also, I was pleasantly surprised by the last chapter (not the epilogue). I thought it would be a one-flashback thing or something,, but then I realized there were still plenty of loose ends, and it lasted longer than I thought it would.

Though the epilogue was nice too.

Spoiler:
Stable time loop whooooo~

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I just picked it up earier today and I was glued to it until I was ripped away to eat. Haven't beaten it yet though. Only on chapter 3. The game is just so epic.
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I saw info on this game at 1up about a week ago and I really want to play this game. Its like when i first heard about life signs surgical unit. these kind of games just feel unique to me and they just playing them feel different from other games.
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Mr wright wrote:
I saw info on this game at 1up about a week ago and I really want to play this game. Its like when i first heard about life signs surgical unit. these kind of games just feel unique to me and they just playing them feel different from other games.


I agree. I usually play Adventure and RPGs, so it's nice to break away from that genre and play something that doesn't evolve button mashing or the like. XD
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You should play it.
This game is pretty much awesome.
At first Im confused as hell, but you'll get the hang of it.

Spoiler:
Oh and I think ethan is waaayyy too nice, if I'm Ethan, I won't do some of those things he did.
Like, saving Ben so he didn't kill aaron? Even if im his friend, I dont care. He killed aaron with his own hand, so, why should I care? Yeah, EThan and morris and vin said that ben wouldn't do something like that. Well, the truth is, he did it. So... yeah. =_=

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Good 'til the last drop.

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I'm playing it right now. On Day 4. So I have no idea how close I am to finishing, but I'm loving it.
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i watched some of the trailers the music sounds excellent in the game thats it im going to order it now
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Bolt Storm wrote:
Spoiler: Whole game
So Mary is the one making herself get killed in the past... why? Is it just to 'atone' for giving birth to Irving? Is she trying to kill him off too so he never tries to kill Kori?

I didn't quite get that bit. :sadshoe:


Spoiler:
She didn't mean for it to happen. This is the chronological order of events that happens:
1. Old Mary goes back in time and gives Young Mary the note to go on the bus for some reason (I think she wanted to get it fixed--she didn't want to die)
2. Young Mary goes on the bus and dies
3. All the stuff happens where Irving kills your life
4. You fix the bus accident, so Young Mary doesn't die
5. All the other stuff happens, so you meet Old Mary and talk to her.
6. Go back to step 1.

If you understood that all that happened, but not why Old Mary gave Young Mary the note, then sorry ^^'



Anywayz, just finished it. It is a good game, albeit short. The characters definitely have solid personalities, but they just aren't characterized that much--no where near PW. (The only adventure games I've played are Prof. Layton, PW, and this, so I can't talk about Trace Memory and Hotek Dusk ^^') The plot is pretty epic, and the logic of time traveling is very confusing, yet they did it perfectly. Tons and tons of mystery, too.


Spoiler:
I thought it was a really cool plot point how saving Young Mary caused her to die.

Although the very end (the final animation) made be WTF--both times, so I wasn't too pleased about that >.>
(If you've only gotten one, after you've finished the game, click 'continue' from the menu and start up! You'll get to it really quickly as long as you do it right)




Off-topic question: Since I really luved PW, Prof. Layton, and this, I was thinking of getting Trace Memory and Hotel Dusk, which both seem to be well-liked.... How long is Trace Memory and Hotek Dusk, compared to this, prof. layton, and PW?
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Trace Memory is a little shorter then Time Hollow. But it's still an amazing experience. Cing really knows how to build unique puzzles on the DS. Also, even with a really small cast, the dynamics between Ashley and D are really sweet.

Hotel Dusk, It's a longer title. I'd say it's significantly longer then Phoenix Wright, but maybe not longer then Professor Layton with all the Puzzles you have to solve.

Both games are really cheep now, I'd recommend getting them both. But I'd recommend playing Trace Memory first, there's a single moment late in Hotel Dusk that you'll appreciate best the first time if you're familiar with the cast of Trace Memory.
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Umm
I dont get it

Spoiler:
At the end, ethan fixed everything, and now everyting is well. All those thing Irving done never happened, right? And, ethan's parents are healthy, just like they should be. So, they'll probably just give the pen and the birthday present to ethan personally because nothing happened to them, right?. but ethan put the watch & letter on the garbage and send sox over the hole, so that 17yrs old ethan could get the pen and the birthday present? ummmmmmm,......... aarrghhh........ my head hurts

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Spoiler:
I think he plans to test himself or something, even if Irving isn't there....

I bet Ethan just goes and gets the other Hollow Pen and uses it to change stuff so younger Ethan can learn about the Hollow Pen and stuff xD

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I think it's to prevent a paradox like the one created by Chrono Trigger. By Chrono and Friends defeating Lavos in 1999 AD, Lavos doesn't exist in the post apocalyptic future. So rewinding to the beginning-ish of the game. Lucca Marley and Chrono travel to Robo's Era, see a utopia, and then go home. By doing so they've canceled their desire to alter the past to create a better future. And since they didn't do that, Lavos exists again.

Spoiler: Time Hollow
This is exactly like the paradox when Ethan saving Irving's Mother causes her to send a message to her former self to get on the bus that kills her in the first place.

In this case, had Ethan not put into place all the events he did in the Epilog, he wouldn't have done any of the things he had done mid game. Thus, he'd cause all the events he worked to avoid. In this case, he's creating a past where the present resolves itself satisfactory.

Boy, saying that last sentence sure sounded odd.

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This looks like a very good game. Currently in the middle of Trauma Center: Under the Knife 2, but hey, it'll be another good game to add to my repertoire. I'll have to see if I can find it in stores. Probably have to go to GameStop (*grumble* Those guys think it's "strange" that a girl likes to play "good games" like Hotel Dusk and Phoenix Wright *grumble*)
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Thanks for the heads-up! I'll have to check out Time Hollow at some point.
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I got it yesterday, I've been looking forward to it for awhile since I saw it in Nintendo Power some time ago. Pretty awesome so far, and like PW, I missed one little minute detail of a background, and it kept me wandering aimlessly for the good part of an hour. :larry:
So, I forsee frustration the size of PW. But that's part of the fun, eh?
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Re: Time Hollow - I forsee epicness the size of PW.Topic%20Title
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Porcu-Head wrote:
I got it yesterday, I've been looking forward to it for awhile since I saw it in Nintendo Power some time ago. Pretty awesome so far, and like PW, I missed one little minute detail of a background, and it kept me wandering aimlessly for the good part of an hour. :larry:
So, I forsee frustration the size of PW. But that's part of the fun, eh?


Lemme guess: the note on the wall?

That's really the worst pixel-hunty thing there is... except for some people say finding

Spoiler: Episode 3
the pliers and Lucky


can be tricky. I never had trouble with either, though.
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Re: Time Hollow - I forsee epicness the size of PW.Topic%20Title

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@Bolt Storm
Yes, yes. The note on the wall.
I didn't quote since I'm not up to Episode 3 yet. I just found the note, and turned the game off. I'll get back to it.

And it has to be tricky to find if it's in the manual. Seriously.
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Re: Time Hollow - I forsee epicness the size of PW.Topic%20Title
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I had trouble with the pliers. That was the one time in the game I had to use an online guide :sadshoe:


btw...
Spoiler: Time Hollow
Y'know that music that plays when you awesome begin to piece everything together? I can't remember every time it's used, but I'm pretty sure it's used when you're talking to the Kori from the past where she's seen Mary and in school and you have to answer those 3 questions about what actually happened.

Is it just me, or does that sound like Objection! 2001?

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Re: Time Hollow - I forsee epicness the size of PW.Topic%20Title
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I think I know which one you mean - is it this one? :minuki:

http://boomp3.com/listen/c1hkaa2mj_e/st ... estigation

It does have a kind of similar refrain.
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