Okay, the 7th gen consoles have been on the market about 2 years, expect Ps3 which launched worldwide in March 07. So I'd like hear some comments about these machines, the reception, the grip etc.

Okay, I'll start:

Xbox 360
Microsoft's console which is very popular worldwide, it's price isn't too high and it has very high-quality games. The only reasons why I shun this console is that it seems to be on the market only for money, battling with Ps3 for the title of the best console, and I'ts clearly directed for older gamers.

Playstation 3
Sony's console which tries to be more than a console, a Dvd and a Blu-ray player too. Although it has good games and a good grip, it's price is still ill-founded, even though it has dropped almost 200euro from the launching price. I don't want to vilify Ps3 in any matter but i'ts too directed to older gamers, clearly.

Wii
Nintendo's console which has been Japan's most popular console for some time. It has got very unique controlling style, motion-sensing remote and it's directed more to families, not only hardcore gamers which means that it's the one which gets all the crappy Disney license games. Still it's a very good console among the other two, if not better.

(I only own a Wii, so I can't really comment the upper two colourfully :P)

Something like that. Please comment :D

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Only have a Wii/PS3


Wii

I was very excited about this...so much so that on a Black Friday the year it was released, I waited and froze my ass off to try and get one (didn't end up getting one)....when that didn't work...I dropped around 600+ on a "deal".... but currently I honestly really don't play it that much as I should....and most of the games I do play, other than the Trinity (Mario/Link/Samus) plus a few games here and there, are VC games....despite the fact I can easily just emulate them for free....Mii's are eh...novel idea, got boring....the online channels are decent...and onlnie in general is crappy (FC? Are you serious Nintendo?) The motion control idea is great when implemented correctly, but suck ass when they are gimmicky or just a quick cash-in (which is unfortunately too many of the Wii games...Carnival Games?) Add-in lazy ports of games on other systems, and we have another B64-GCN situation... I'm hoping for the best outta the system, but currently...if I would have know how it would turn out...I wouldn't have dropped this much, and would probably have waited until a price cut. And seriously...they're still hard to find? What the hell is up with that?



PS3

When it was first announced I was indifferent...thought it was trying to be a suped up Xbox and when they magically announced the six axis, a Wii rip off...then when the price was announced, I was one of those who thought the price doesn't justify the purchase. Finally bought one this year (kinda sad/mad I missed out on the BC models, though)...and I can say I'm satisfied and a changed man. Blu-Ray on a nice TV is beautiful, and the other features in addition to BR/gaming are pretty nice. PSN isn't too bad for a free service, and I'm enjoying the games (exclusive or not)...I've become spoiled by it, with all the bells and whistles it offers.



360

Been debating for a long time if I want to get one, since there are a handful of games I do want to play...but not so much to actually buy one....yet.

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If Nintendo keeps going the direction they are now, which is very probable, I doubt I'll be buying anything new off them.

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This is how I feel;

Microsoft learned from all of their mistakes with the Xbox's design and realized that throwing together old computer parts with state of the art graphics to make a gigantic, expensive brick isn't reasonable. On top of that, they found simple ways to supply fans with more content while giving developers and publishers a lot more money from it. The main focus of the 360, is of course, its incredible online abilities, which make any other online video game system look like shit in comparison outside of PCs. Although it made it less expensive, software based emulation to play a selection of Xbox titles might leave you with a couple frame rate issues and some of your favourite Xbox titles not available.

Nintendo, realizing their "loyal fans" were nothing more than a group of whiny little twelve year olds and adults with the mindsets of whiny little twelve year olds (in general) decided to say "fuck you" and attract a market which no company has tried to approach seriously in years, and they succeeded. It all started with the DS, which was a risky move (to the point where they claimed the GameCube, GBA, and DS would be a "triple threat," so in case the DS turned to shit they would still have the GBA running strong), but once it proved ridiculously successful Nintendo based their next console around "new ways of playing games." Although many gamers understandably dislike the motion controls for the games they used to play, it's because the controls flat out don't work for the games they used to (or want to) play. This is why Nintendo doesn't give two shits about it any more, and any classic franchise they still regularly put out games for have been tremendously watered down so people who aren't gamers will also enjoy them (and so they can show horn in their wiggle waggle, tippity tappity controls).

Sony has always had their heads stuffed up each others' asses which is why all of their products, from music players to televisions, have bombed. If it wasn't for Sony Pictures and the PlayStation 2, Sony would have bit the dust years ago. But, considering the world through their eyes is nothing more but shit covered bowel walls clenched around their faces, I think it's understandable to see why they would think making the PlayStation 3 the most powerful piece of gaming hardware ever and thinking gamers would buy it regardless of its price was a good idea. They obviously couldn't have seen why the PS2 was so successful; Inexpensive to develop and inexpensive to buy, easy to program for, simplistic interface, completely backwards compatible, and hey, it could even play a movie medium that everyone had already accepted as the successor to the VHS tape. But outside of a small thousand uninformed Japanese business men and die hard brand name retards, nobody wanted to pay $600 for a console that had no games and focused around a new and unnecessary movie format. When games weren't selling, developers jumped ship and either made their games available for the 360 or flat out scrapped their PS3 games entirely up until the point where the PS3 now only has (in my opinion) two good exclusive games, both of which are barely games at all according to the people who've played (erm, watched?) them. Any attempt to pull themselves out of the fire they've been rolling in only has them ending up in a puddle of gasoline.

Bottom line; If you like casual, inexpensive fun, get a Wii for very basic but entertaining software. If you're a "hardcore gamer", get a 360 for actual video games in the style you've bene having fun with for the past 10-15 years. If you're a jackass with no taste and money to piss away on bullshit, get a PS3? Seriously...the PS3 was just a total fuck up and only because Sony had some retarded concept that "better graphics make better games and people will buy them no matter the price." Augh.

My thoughts on the Xbox 360:

It's an amazing console, but it has its flaws. While it has an awesome graphics engine (and it's been proven to beat PS3's 'eight-core' system, so all PS3 has over 360 is that it can do more multiprocessing, which is still a plus for PS3 XD), I've been experiencing a lot of system hangs, where the console will sit there unresponsive for about 20-30 seconds before moving.

Not to mention that if my wireless internet blinks at all, it freezes the console. (Which is why, when my internet is unstable, I merely unplug the wireless adapter from the back of the 360 until it fixes.)

On the plus side, however, the Xbox 360 is home to many games, yes mostly for older gamers, but there ARE quite a few games that younger children can enjoy.

The old style consoles suffered from a major problem called Red Ring of Death, which was actually a general hardware failure, normally suffered from when the system overheats too much. The new ones, however, have a MUCH less chance of failure thanks to the Falcon motherboard. Mine's been doing fine on that end, minus the system hangs (What in the world is causing those?) and I think the 360 is a nice next-gen system.

I'll post something on the Wii later.

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System hangs and five second freezing on game menus are what I endured for almost a year until I got red rings two weeks ago. At first I thought the pauses were normal until I played on my friend's 360, and everything was running extremely smoothly. I can't wait to get my 360 back... Banjo-Kazooie is amazing.

I find that any 360 accessory that also works with Windows is a piece of shit that flat out dies within months, from the vision cam to the wireless 360 PC adapter and getting help with them is frustratingly impossible. I suggest not investing in anything outside of wireless controllers, rechargeable batteries, wired headsets, the memory cards (if you ever play on more than one 360, say bringing you profile and game save to a friend's house), and the 360 itself. Everything else is shit.

Ugh, I know what you mean. My vision cam barely works (I use it for UStream) but at least it works fine on the computer. And to be honest, I don't use rechargeable batteries, since my family buys AA batteries and I just leech off of them. XD

Let me put it this way. I had NO system hangs or menu freezes for over 8 months. Then suddenly, on particular games I started getting them. They're beginning to get more and more frequent, and it's starting to piss me off. They (still!) don't happen in most of my 360 games, though, which really makes me wonder what's causing them... (I really do think it could be the games themselves... since most of mine don't have this problem.)

And yes. I was so glad to get the original Banjo-Kazooie back, on Xbox LIVE. I'm almost done with the game yet again (I ALMOST beat it on my N64, then got stuck. I was a kid then. >.>;)

And, er... what about the Hard Drives? :P


EDIT: You know, come to think of it, most of the minor freezes happen after playing for a few hours... maybe I need to start shutting it off in two-hour intervals or something.

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they all suck

Well, without any elaboration, I'm afraid I cannot take your opinion into consideration. ;D

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+ ps3's SUPAR GREAT GRAPHIX hurt my eyes and give me a headache. also, its killer app was shitty

+ wii has no games i want and my copy of brawl doesn't work

+ 360 same as above two, except i can play banjo-kazooie which is awesome

360 wins

360 beats PS3 in its system alone, ASIDE from all of the problems... (which the PS3 has a lot of too. >.> Did you know a lot of them are dying recently?)

PS3's Home is a piece of shit.

And if SUPER GREAT GRAPHICS hurt your eyes, maybe you should turn down the brightness...?

And there's no way that there are no 360 games you want. (Save the one you said, Banjo-Kazooie, which I also have :D) There's GOT to be at least ten. I guarantee it. Look at the entire catalog and tell me there aren't at least ten you want. There's about SEVENTY I want (most of which I currently own.)

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I'd have to say the best exclusive games each console has to offer are No More Heroes, Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts, and Little Big Planet. Each console definitely has a couple of games I really want to play, but only the 360 has enough to warrant a purchase. Sorry, but I learned my lesson in the past... never buy any video game system for only one or two games... except POSSIBLY a handheld.

I will love my 360 until it dies. Then I'll hate it.

I don't get much use out of my Metal Gear Solid 4 machine.

The Wii's only purpose to exist ended up sucking. I use it as a gamecube now.

Wii all the way. Cheap price, extremely innovative, more Mario and classic nintendo games at your fingertips. Also, Brawl Online? Fuck Yeah! Club Nintendo sweetens the deal even more.

Xbox 360 is cool, moderately priced. I would probably buy one if I had the money (and after I get a Wii) The games are decent on it, but I don't see much that I'd be willing to play on it besides Banjo-Kazooie and Halo 3 and maybe some other stuff. I'm not one to play realistic video games that often.

PS3 is an overpriced piece of shit. Next to no exclusives (about 90 percent were lost to Xbox 360), steep price, controller is still the same, and no good games.
I'm an avid Sony Hater.

Wii Wins IMO.

WII PWN

BRAWL

MARIO

POKEMANS

[/topic]

Brawl online is unplayable. Laggy as hell. Also, Brawl offline is pretty bad itself.

Club Nintendo is a fucking piece of shit. Out of the 50+ games I've registered with Nintendo, only 13 are able to get me any "coins."

It's basically saying "You must spend at least $560 on Nintendo games before you can get anything decent, lawl."

On top of that, it won't allow me to change my old US address to my Canadian address because it's in a different country than my old US address, so even if I had the points for anything worthwhile I wouldn't be able to get it mailed to me.

Everything about Nintendo online has always sucked shit, from their WiFi Connection to their websites.

I have noticed the Wii has lots and lots of awful SHOVELWARE games...its not going good as it seems.

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Last edited by Chikikyo on Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

So did the PS2.

Shoddy developers flock to whatever console has the most sales since there's a higher chance of ignorant consumers accidentally buying their games.

PS3:
Gained alot of attention here in Denmark at least, but that is most probably because Microsoft didn't bother to do any advertising for the X-Box 360. I'm AMAZED at how much cash Sony has spewed out on advertisment on television and everywhere else, and one of the big supermarkets at my location only has playstation 3 material - Microsoft isn't doing ANYTHING to promote the X-Box 360 around these parts, so it's no WONDER that the PS3 is popular around here. As for the console itself, I can't see how it fairs better or worse than the X-Box. At least in the last generation you could see some differences between the PS2 and the Xbox, but here they're, well, just about the same game-wise. Except for the code, which cross-platform game developers really doesn't like, along with support that doesn't care about the developers and a QA control team that doesn't know what they're doing. I don't actually own a PS3, but I've tried it because I work as a tester for Deadline Games, and one thing I hate about it is, that you have to press the PS3 button every time you start up the system. GARWR. Another fault is the high price and size of the console. And the game cartridges appear puny compared to both PS2, Wii and X-Box 360 ones. I almost mistook them for PSP games at first. I'm not sure how the backwards compatibilities are, but everyone owns a PS2 by now, I think, so it doesn't really matter at all.

Score: --% (don't really know enough about it to score it fairly. It may be slightly below or above the X-Box 360, say, 38%-44%)
+ Good publicity, if that ammounts to anything.
+ Good graphics, although identical with X-Box 360.
+ Good game library. Mostly the same as with X-Box 360.
- Lousy game developer support.
- Big, expensive.

X-Box 360:
I just got one of these, timed it right to the point where they nailed out all the issues with the frequent breakdowns, high pitched ventilation, etc. I can't believe they had so many hardware problems to start out with, but they finally solved them it seems, as well as banged it down a notch in the pricetag and now bolsters a 60GB version. The graphics are about identical with the PS3 it seems, but the coding is apperently easy for developers to use. As I said, Microsoft didn't actually bother to advertice for the thing, which I find really weird. I do have issues with the X-Box 360 that I own. One thing is, that why on earth does Microsoft have this silver/gold membership thing? I find it disturbing that you have to pay for something over time, no matter WHAT it is. And for something like this, I can't think of it as anything but a scheme from Microsoft to make more money. And Microsoft has this annoying policy that anything on the X-Box must be made by Microsoft, so you can't even have a frickin' custom avatar. That really bothers me. But the X-Box 360 is likely the best console as games go, nailing a FFXIII version, and having working games from Valve. The price isn't as bad as the PS3 either. Another thing; I'm not pitching out a hundred dollars for a wireless internet adaptor. GTFO. Oh, and I have a few games for the original X-Box I really wanted to try, but can I? Nooo. Because there's so many games that can't be played due to bad backwards compatibility. ARGGGH!

Score: 42%
+ Good graphics, although identical with PS3.
+ Good game library. Mostly the same with PS3
- Many hardware issues at launch.
- No wireless internet connection.
- Bad backwards compatibility.
- Microsoft are bunch of idiots.

Wii:
I bought this earliest of all the platforms. I liked it at first, and it was hyped up to be the best console without any doubt, and it's very cheap, and doesn't take much space (I mean, the PS3 is huge, and the AC adaptor for the 360 is unjustifiably large). But there are some problems. First of all, it's graphics arn't par with X-Box 360 and PS3. I don't care much about that, but because of this, most third-party companies goes for other consoles instead. Because of this, Wii has the WORST game library. There's only a few must-play games on the Wii, actually, I can really only think of one - Twilight Princess, and that one is out on the gamecube too. Smash Bros is pointless IMO, Super Mario Galaxy is a game that you really don't need to try, Trauma Center is out for the DS with almost the same functionality, Mega Man 9 can be played on the other systems as well, Strong Bad games can be gotten for the PC.... Actually, the Wii is basically a good console with no games to play on. You don't need to own the Wii. The console is rather clever, and I really like the virtual consoles because I am a retro freak (currently playing Super Mario RPG. I never owned a Super Nintendo, so I have a few games to catch up on), but alot of the games that I wanted to try arn't there. It has good support for gamecube games as well, so at one point I'd like to try out the good gamecube games Stupid Nintendo for not catering to my personal interests! Oh, and the games on the wii are super childish. Damn, Nintendo, grow up. At least you included a wireless internet connection, unlike the X-Box 360.

Score: 48%
+ Novel controller.
+ Lovely backwards compatibility.
+ Virtual console and WiiWare wins.
+ Cheap and tiny.
+ Wireless internet connection.
- No great games. AT ALL.
- Sub-par graphics.
- Overhyped.

Generally: I think that the 7th generation is one of the absolute worst so far. And Nintendo has nothing to be proud of for the Wii. And the X-Box and the PS3 are almost identical. If there was one big winner in this, like with the PS2, then it would be much easier to get great games, but because you have three consoles that are virtually the same quality, developers are forced to develop for at LEAST two of the platforms in order to sell a decent amount of games, and that takes time away from actually developing the game properly.

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Just one thing I wanna point out, Mikker - the 360 DOES have Wireless internet access. It's called the Wireless Adapter. :P I own it, and I use wireless internet.

Although Microsoft is not the only company making you pay for online - Playstation Network also costs money, and Nintendo has some online games on the Wii Pay-to-Play (Like the Guitar Heros), so it's not like Microsoft is the only evil with online. The only free online, is PC games. (Non-MMO.)

EDIT: And in my personal opinion, the Gamecube rivaled the PS2, even when the next-gen systems loomed near. It also had a lot of games that the PS2 did not, like a revamped version of Resident Evil, and also Resident Evil Zero. The PS2 had no 'mascot characters' so to speak, so a lot of the retro gamers like myself went with the Gamecube for Mario, Samus, etc.

I did eventually get a PS2. (and still own it :P)

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Well, Sony has never had any 'mascot characters' so to speak, that's one reason why Wii is more popular than PS3.

(Talk about the price 0_o)

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How did the GameCube rival the PS2? The GameCube sold less units than the Xbox... the PS2 just slaughtered everything in sales, with over 140,000,000 units sold. The cube had barely 22,000,000.

By the way, any company that offers free online content/gameplay is a company that's going to go out of business. Whether you like it or not, its costs money to maintain and keep servers online. Even having a silver Xbox Live membership is costing Microsoft money. It's why most MMOs cost at least $13 USD a month (usually $15+). The only time you'll see free bonus content for a game is when it's heavily sponsored by another company.

The reason why most of Nintendo's online content is free is because there are no servers and zero maintenance. When you play online with your DS or Wii, what you're really doing is connecting directly to another person. This is why most games, however, rarely support more than four players, because each player has to be connected to every other player.

One player = No connections.
Two players = One connection.
Three players = Three connections.
Four players = Six connections.
Eight players = Twenty-eight connections!

Personally, I'm going to have to go with the Wii on this one. For me, I don't care if your graphics look like video, if the game itself isn't fun, what's the point? The Wii introduced new ways to do things. Twilight Princess was awesome; Brawl makes for great times with friends; and simple things like actually having a wheel to actually steer with in Mario Kart gave me a reason to like a racing game, which I had never found fun before. Basically, yeah, the PS3 and 360 have state-of-the-art graphics, and if you're in it for the blood and gore, go for those, but if you just want to have fun (why else would you play video games?), the Wii wins.

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Well, no, it didn't. The Wii's only doing what the Arcades have been doing for years, except worse. It's so bad, that they even had to create an attachment just to improve its accuracy by a notable amount. The graphic argument might have some ground to it if it wasn't for the majority of the Wii's titles being shovelware and old games with different, awkward controls thrown in. How many Wii games are direct PS2 ports with uncomfortable wiggle waggling attached? And in every scenario, the PS2 version is always claimed to be superior.

I really can't stand it when people think the only things the nonNintendo products have going for them are "graphics and gore." Take your head out of your ass. Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts is my favourite game this generation, and Super Mario Galaxy is a piece of shit compared to it.

Wow, you're really just starting to bash on everyone's opinion of the Wii.

And when did the arcades ever do anything like the Wii? I've never see ANYTHING like the Wii remote in an arcade. Most of their VR stuff is either FPS, or shitty, or both. Some to mention, Street Fighter (The first one with those god-awful pads), Crisis Zone, Arm Wrestling?

And the reason because everyone thinks the only things that Non-Nintendo consoles have going is graphics and gore, is because it is. Have you ever even looked at the lineup of games for PS3, or even Xbox 360 for that matter?

Wow, what a hypocrite. Reread what you just posted, kay?

By the way, your knowledge of arcade machines is laughable.

Has anyone ever told you you're really obnoxious? Try actually contributing something to conversations instead of posting what amounts to LESS than brainless fan drivel. Thanks. ^^

Anyway, I only have a Wii, and I have to confess that I'm becoming steadily more disappointed. Alas, it seems that straight up capitalism meeting the video game market is doing more harm than good. But hey, can't blame Nintendo. Their more casual games are making them money so of course they're going to keep it up.

At any rate, going to college has really reduced my console gaming as it's as yet proved inefficient to bring the Wii with me. For that reason, I can't see me up and buying one of the other consoles (even if I had the money). Ah well... I'll remain optimistic. I'm sure one way or another, for DS or for Wii occasionally on my breaks when I return home I'll be able to scrounge up some good games to play. And maybe things will improve in the future.

The new Xboxlive is gay, so that lost points. Other than that it's better than the Wii. The PS3 is catching up with the 360 and it's also better than the wii.

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*BUZZ!*

Incorrect. See, a small or medium amount of blood and gore doesn't make the game. All it is is part of the content. I don't play the games for the blood. In fact, far too much turns me off. (Gears of War comes close, though I love the game so much I get used to it.) What about the RPGs? The action games? Sure, it has a lot of FPS games, but it's not all blood and gore. Your credibility in your opinion is starting to diminish with talk like that. Give me a break.

In fact, half the games I own for the 360 (around 15-20) don't have that much blood or gore in it, and they're fun. They're also games that aren't on the Wii. :3

I'll leave the arcade knowledge to Bendilin, since I can't say I remember much. I do recall the good old Punch-Out game where your punches actually registered on the machine, though.

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Now I say this with all due respect and love, but that some serious bashing to do to someone over differing opinions about video game consoles.

I just think the Wii is more fun, okay? I own it, I've played its games, I find them really entertaining. If you can give me some good games on the other consoles that aren't just blood and gore, be my guest, I always love finding new games. But let's not get upset here, okay?

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I can give you some, as I was going to earlier.

Here we go: (You may disagree with me on these, this is my personal opinion, and I will respect yours if you disagree.)

Xbox 360: (Not gonna list PS3 XD)
Blazing Angels 2
Burnout Revenge (and Paradise, for that matter)
Guitar Hero/Rock Band
Moto GP series (Hey, I like them. >.>)
Need for Speed series
Thrillville: Off The Rails (Say what you want, it's really fun.)
Command and Conquer 3
Naruto: Rise of the Ninja (Pretty much the only good Naruto game out there... that I've played.)

And quite a lot of arcade games such as:
Banjo-Kazooie
Castle Crashers (You CAN turn off the blood and gore, as there is a medium amount in it, but I don't mind it myself)
Aegis Wing (It's FREE. :P)

And there's more than that, but I don't feel like adding anymore (and I forgot the rest of my arcade games, no time to shut on my 360 at the moment XD), so hopefully this will kinda prove my point that there ARE many good games that aren't 'just blood and gore' on Xbox 360.

EDIT: Oh, and Bendilin, I would pay to see you argue with my co-worker about that, when I told him I got Banjo-Kazooie (I meant the arcade version), he thought I got Nuts and Bolts and ranted about it. Incessantly. >.>; (I still plan to rent it, though! XD)

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I already did, but thanks for bothering to read what I actually had to say. It really helped you look less like a fool when you responded!



Nuts & Bolts is actually my favourite 360 game at the moment. People really need to get over how it's not just another platform game and appreciate it for what it is; An extremely well polished Rare game made specifically for the fans of their legendary SNES, N64, and handheld titles, which was especially difficult to do considering the main brothers behind Rare had left a year or two ago, this entire game was put together by their lackies. I love it when newer games mock themselves for not being able to live up to the original titles in the series, but this one (as funny as it is) is the only one that doesn't deserve it. As I already said, Super Mario Galaxy is a piece of shit compared to Nuts & Bolts. Its online is extremely fun and you can get so creative with vehicle creation.

There's only one minuscule flaw with the entire game, and it's only a flaw if you're a novice and don't remember that you can edit any vehicle the game gives you for missions; Some races kinda suck, but if you modify your vehicle, you can totally slaughter the competition.





Some of the vehicles I made. The DS's stylus is actually a weapon that pops out and knocks other vehicles away. Super Sonic can actually fly above the ground at high speeds like Super Sonic. I've made dozens... Pikachu, Shoop-da-whoop, Wall-E, I've seen people make incredible replicas from Star Wars, Halo, The Orange Box, One guy even made a Katamari that could make things stick to it.

I'm really upset at the moment cause my 360's in repair from red rings and I can't enjoy this perfect title right now.

Holy... shit... those three vehicles are made of so much win. o.o Bendilin, you've just helped me decide which game I'm renting today XD (I originally rented Legendary to test it against reviews, and I have to agree with them now x.x So I'm taking it back and getting another game.)

I WOULD buy it, but I've already spent my Christmas money and I'm not getting any more until next weekend (when my mom visits)

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Guess i really can't comment here because i haven't moved out of the 5th gen yet *shot*

I have tried the PS2 before. My brother tried "rent to own" on one several years ago and it was good. But then he couldn't keep up the payments so he took it back. And didn't try to get it back The furthest i'll go (hopefully next year) is the PS2 and DS.

As for PS3. I remember the hype when it came out. when people were buying them at reg. price, then re-selling them on Ebay for as high as 3,000$.
Bet those people wished they hadn't spent that kind of money on them now

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