That I can accept. Still don't like it, but it sounds plausible.

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...Huh...coulda sworn that TVtropes had that thing there...meh. Either way, that's just what I've read.

Also: Fanart is just a small portion. Apparently once Togepi showed up fans didn't like the fact that Misty lost her personality, which probably caused the whole "put her on a bus" thing.

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I don't really see how she lost her personality. I mean, there's a difference between "losing personality" and "becoming less prone to biting your friend's head off." But anyway...

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And that is why I don't like the fanbase of stuff like this. I presume that it was because she wasn't attacking Ash that made the fanbase say that she "lost her personality".

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If that's the case, they don't recognize the crap that's pouring out of their mouths...

Well, as I said before, we will see what happens. "It ain't over till it's over."

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I read somewhere that back in 2008, one of the original directors said at a con that he never intended for Ash and Misty to get romantically involved :(

And to add fuel to the fire, he also said that all of Ash's female sidekicks are just there in the show as "fanservice" .-.

EDIT: Found the interview if anyone's interested.
http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=213219

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What...the...heeeeeeeeeeellllll?!

FANSERVICE?! Gaahhh...do they realize how many expectations they're toying with?! What about all those hints? You know they're there, you said so yourself! What were those for?! Nnnnngh...

...Ah, sorry for the vehemence of my response.

That's what fan-fiction is for, yeah? Still, they've got some gall...

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Personally, I believe that Misty probably did have a thing for Ash. Or maybe Brock. Yes, Misty may've liked Ash, but Ash doesn't seem to reciprocate.

And I doubt May and Dawn were put there for fanservice because none of the fans seemed to want either of them until they got to know them better. I suspect that they were added in order to make the anime and the games more related to each other. In fact, recent events make it feel like they're trying too hard to cross-reference between the anime and the games.

One more thing, has this been posted yet in this thread, or is it old news already? If you consider that theory as the truth, then Ash definitely doesn't like Misty in that way. At all.

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Yes it has been, and frankly, I think that theory's a load of bull. Just my opinion, of course.

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Interesting, why would you think so?

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The whole theory consists entirely of subjective conclusions which are based on nothing concrete. Taking it point by point:



There wasn't exactly much to change from, seeing as the incident the author refers to occurred in the very first episode. Even if there had been time to change from anything, I'd be interested to know precisely how pacing, tone, or story development changed.



Again, how exactly was the world not "normal" after Ash got zapped? Again, not much of anything to compare to.



Undeniably, but why in the world should that mean that Ash must be dreaming everything that's happening? I might add that Team Rocket never became totally incompetent, they still had varying degrees of success and even, if I'm not mistaken, came very close to actually capturing Pikachu (not to mention many other Pokemon) multiple times.



There was precisely one episode's worth of "terrifying" occurrences (i.e. getting attacked by a flock of Spearows which he himself provoked). It's ridiculous to say that comparatively pleasant things happening afterward must mean that they're not real. Besides, what about all those other scary things that happened afterward, like being chased by a swarm of Beedrill, getting trapped aboard a sunken ship, fighting against hostile Tentacool/Tentacruel and a Gastly whom he was unable to defeat, finding himself trapped inside a dollhouse and getting "played with," getting scared (at least initially) by Gastly, Haunter and Gengar at the Lavender Town tower, need I go on?



Totally baseless conclusion. Maybe he doesn't own one and doesn't have the money to buy one (he doesn't seem to have the money to pay Misty back, after all, or he certainly would have done so at the beginning to get her to leave), or maybe he just doesn't want one. Maybe he prefers walking. Point is, the fact that he doesn't ride a bike proves nothing.



I believe some credible person behind the show has stated that, for all intents and purposes, Ash is 10 forever (can't find a source, but I'm still pretty sure it's so). Even though time seems to pass and Ash and his friends compete in many different tournaments and competitions, the creators have frozen his age in time.



Socialism? What, the free Pokemon center services and boarding? I think it's far more reasonable to say that these are voluntarily granted to trainers. If that's not what the author meant by socialism, then I have no idea what they're talking about.

As for children going off on their own in a world full of dangerous monsters, what can I say, it's the world of Pokemon. No one seems to think anything of it, and this is the case before Ash ever gets zapped, so it's no evidence of him having fallen into a coma and dreamt such a scenario up.



This has already been explained within the show. All of the Jennys and Joys are somehow related...and happen to look pretty much identical. No, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that's how it is. (Besides, Brock claims he can tell them apart, albeit in minimal ways.) Again, it's no evidence that Ash is dreaming things up. (On a side note, when were Jenny and Joy ever seen in Pallet Town?)



Ash and Gary don't even get along in the show until near the end of the Johto arc. Even then, if the professors represent Ash's ideals, why should Gary have anything to do with it? Why shouldn't Ash just admire Professor Oak? Of course, he does, as the show makes clear, but yet again, it's a fantastic leap of logic to say that that indicates he's in a coma and hallucinating.



All of the regions except Kanto and Johto are entirely separate landmasses. There is at least a possibility that news doesn't travel fast enough between them for anyone to have heard much about the results of local tournaments immediately after they occur (recall that Ash moves on to the next region fairly soon after each tournament, if I'm not mistaken). Furthermore, even if that isn't the case, "the top 16" isn't exactly what everyone would be talking about. The top 5 or 10, maybe, but the top 16? Why would anyone have heard of Ash? As for the Orange League and Battle Frontier, those tournaments take place on tiny islands. Not exactly big-name competitions, I gather.

The rest of the theory is basically a completely arbitrary Freudian interpretation of projection. It is only plausible if the theory that Ash is in a coma and dreaming is itself plausible, and frankly, I think evidence of that is pretty thin, to put it kindly. Furthermore, some of these specific explanations of projections are, once again, totally baseless.



"Ash has issues with his father"? Since when? According to Ash's profile on Bulbapedia,



Definitely not Giovanni. There's no sign of "turmoil" in Ash's home life at the beginning of the show (not that we get the opportunity to see much of that), and Ash's mother, Delia, never shows any sign of having gone through any "turmoil" because of her husband. She has even apparently contacted Ash's father at some point in the series (according to Wikipedia, anyway).



I admit I'm not very knowledgeable about Pokemon beyond the first generation, but unless I'm mistaken, many of them (I would think even most of them) continue to be based on real animal species, even today. Perhaps they are "less" like real animals, but I don't think degree matters so much here. They are not totally removed from reality, so this argument doesn't pass muster. Besides that, it doesn't prove anything if Pokemon are utilized for various purposes. Why shouldn't they be if they can get the job done? The rest of the explanations regarding Ash's projections on his friends and Pokemon, as well as the people and other Pokemon he encounters are, again, entirely contrived.

In summary, this crack theory was concocted by someone with either a hyperactive imagination or an overly zealous belief in Freudian psychology (or both). At first glance, it seems like it could be believable, but the entire theory is ultimately specious and wholly unfounded, at least as I see it.

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Okay I know first and second gen have the superior Pokemon generally but this third gen guy is like the best ever.



Eh, why not. Fanart dump.

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I applaud your overanalyzing this overanalysis. Yes the article is definitely conjecture, but then again, so is Ash x Misty. 8)

But I would still like to offer my argument.


It's not supposed to be the ultimate basis for this theory, according to the article, Team Rocket only represents certain negative aspects of Ash's personality. They become less menacing as he comes more to terms with these aspects.



Presumably, the medication was taken some time in the middle of the coma in one of the many efforts to bring Ash back to life. The author meant that those things you mentioned as the terrifying things. It also explains why the terrible things that happen now are incredibly cheesy.



He could easily call his mom to buy a bike for him you know. And I'm sure all the times he's complained about it would tell you that he doesn't like walking too much.



It doesn't matter what any of the staff said, they can always change their mind. They also said that they would keep Pikachu's gender a secret even though only recently they had an episode with undeniable proof that he's male.



Oh yes, going to Pokemon centers is not voluntary, all you need to heal your wounded Pokemon is a medical degree and expensive supplies! Not a problem at all! Why pay for a capitalist Pokemon center when you can do it yourself! Yes, I'm sure Ash could easily have just rigged up his Pikachu to his own special machinery after those Spearows attacked.



But supposedly, the show is Ash's coma, it would just be Ash trying to explain it to himself. And the fact Brock can tell them all apart is just a way for Ash to justify his dream as reality. Jenny and Joy may have been in Pallet Town, they might not even be a nurse or policewoman, maybe they were just regular friends of Ash's mom that he'd met before the coma, or maybe he even went to a bigger town which has a single Jenny and Joy. Besides, normally, there must've been some massive inbreeding going on for them all to be the same...



I think this following paragraph explains it quite well.





If you had done more research, you would know that Paul has an older brother who has defeated all four regions' leagues and the Orange Islands, and even the Battle Frontier. How strange that this older brother had never heard of Ash. Besides, this show definitely has TV and Internet in it so news spreading is not an issue.



Well just the fact that Ash's father has left him could cause some distress. Delia could easily just be putting on a happy face just for her son. Even her having contacted Ash's father could still mean that perhaps they had divorced. Furthermore, the theory states that Giovanni may just have been some regular man which Ash imagined as the Rocket boss because he thought he was evil for leaving his mother like that. Besides, what would a storyboarder know anyway? All they do is draw little sketches.



Yes many Pokemon are based on real life animals, but in the beginnings of the series, there were real animals alongside the Pokemon. Recall the SS Anne episode. When the ship was sunk, there were many scenes where you could see very realistic looking fish outside the windows. And many first gen Pokedex entries mention real life animals. They even talk about real tigers and not Arcanines or Growlithes, or rabbits instead of whatever Rabbit Pokemon there are. I think Pikachu's Pokedex entry said it was "rat-like" but why didn't Dexter say it was "Rattata-like?" It also states that Ash is sinking deeper into the coma hence why the real animals no longer show up and machines are becoming more Pokemon powered.



Well this was definitely unintentional on the show creator's part, but it still makes plenty of sense anyway.

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I resent that. Things actually happen within the show to support it. Of course, many of these things are open to interpretation, but they're still there. Advance shippers and Diamond shippers obviously have their own hints to point to as well, as I'm aware, but anyway...



As I said, they are not consistently less menacing. They may blow it a lot, but that's for the purposes of the show, they come very close to success several times.



Having a gun pointed at you (Ep. 35) is "cheesy"? Facing an erupting volcano (Ep. 59) is "cheesy"? Getting trapped in a snowstorm (Ep. 66) is "cheesy" (all episode numbers are for Japanese airings)? These are just a few examples, of course, but my point is that Ash continues to experience both pleasant and unpleasant things throughout his journey well after the supposed medication should have been administered. The author's premise is that medication is being administered to stabilize Ash's dreams. Are you going to tell me that the hypothetical doctor allows medication to wear off completely before giving the next dose, as opposed to staggering the doses to ensure maximum patient comfort, which, according to the theory's own author, is the goal?



The fact still remains that just because he doesn't ride a bike doesn't necessarily mean that this is the result of a phobia as projected by a coma-ridden, hallucinatory Ash.



So, have they changed their mind about that?



I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. All I was getting at is that I don't think it's socialistic for Pokemon centers to treat Pokemon and grant boarding to trainers for free.



See my concluding paragraph.





Again, see my concluding paragraph.



Why exactly is it strange that Paul's brother has never heard of Ash? There is no reason for Paul's brother to have to have heard of Ash simply because they have competed in the same tournaments.



"Could" cause some distress, "could" easily be putting on a happy face. Where's the proof? As for the authenticity of the storyboarder's claim, do you have some reason to doubt it?



Once again, see my concluding paragraph.



Despite the fact that I just spent all this time addressing your points, I would like to emphasize that our arguments aren't even on the same level. The theory's fundamental premise is that Ash is in a coma and dreaming everything. I argue that this is not the case. If the assumption that Ash is in a coma is in fact not true, then everything else comes crashing down. So I ask again: what real proof is there that Ash is in a coma? You can explain many things about the show in terms of this hypothetical scenario, but this does not itself prove that the hypothetical scenario is true. For that matter, what reason is there to explain everything in terms of Ash being in a coma? It's just an arbitrary idea someone came up with and realized that several things about the show could be used (or twisted) to fit with.

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I think its just a show about a 10-year old boy who goes on a journey to be the best pokeyman master of all time with his cuddly best friend Pikachu.

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Why were we arguing about this again?

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HOLY CRAP you two, stop that. O__O
I'd agree with LySs. .__. Have this funny pic and don't ever type such a giant mass of letters about some children's cartoon anymore.

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I couldn't agree more. GO POKEYMAN!!!





Sorry about that, guys...

Ahh, anyway, those are some amazing pics of Lugia and Misty, Portsman!

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Oh right, I forgot. =P

Anyways, Misty is and always will be an annoying little girl, no matter how sexy her fanart gets.

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If Misty is an annoying little girl, what does that make May and Dawn?

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It makes May equally annoying and Dawn Ash's soulmate.

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Hmm, we'll just see about that!

Although I'll happily concede May's annoying.

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Thanks. Almost thought they had been swept away in your long discussion, lol.
It's no big deal. When I'm especially bored I enjoy saving, uploading, and sharing pictures. My images folder is worthy of Olympic gold, as some would say.



All the sidekicks are kinda annoying, but since Misty was annoying first I find it a bit more endearing. Sounds like something else, actually.

Anyway, in celebration of the coming release of Heart Gold and Soul Silver, have this lovely set of the Johto gym leaders and E4. These were all drawn by an artist named meitei.

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Here, here. I find an image I like, I save it to use as a wallpaper, even though almost none of them actually cover the screen naturally.



Again, those are some fine pics! I don't have anything half as nice to share. I suppose I can break out some Ash/Misty, and if anyone prefers another pairing, they're welcome to correct the imbalance.



Finally, this is Ash stuck between a rock and a hard place:



Believe it or not, I have even more. These are just the ones I thought other people might actually be interested in seeing.

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YES. THAT IS BRILLIANT.

Though it's kinda out of place. This thread is for the Pokemon anime and maybe the manga. Wasn't there already a thread made for the video games?...

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Well they were in the anime, though I get your point.

I luves me sum Falkner :3
It's funny, I never payed attention to these things when I was a kid, but now I find myself collecting fanart of characters like James and Falkner....

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Delia was defiantly a hoe.

Ohh, Pokémon, that's been ages. :I
I only really liked the g/s/c games anyways.
And as for the anime, I was always too lazy to watch it.
Misty and Ash woulda made kinda the same couple as Bijou and Hamtaro tho, the impossible one.
Well, except that Misty is way more ferocious. Or at least at some point where I watched the series.
I totally missed out on stuff.

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Is it me, or.....

Does the guy with the Xatu.... look like Edgeworth?

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That's Will. The first member of the Elite 4 in Gold/Silver and its remakes.

And yes he does look like Edgeworth, which is why he's my favorite. Though anyone who wears maroon and a cravat could pass off as Edgeworth...

more like a combination between him and klavier.

I loved it at the beginning! But at the middle of Battle Frontier, they had new voice actors, so it took a while to get used to. I was pretty upset that they took away the old voice actors though.
The plot also always the same: Make new friend, Befriend new Pokemon, Get all Badges, and lose the league for the region.
But despite all that, I still love Pokemon!

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They had to replace all the voice actors because 4Kids was being a bitch and trying to steal patents and stuff. Nintendo got so mad at this that they made an international company just for Pokemon and fired 4Kids's ass. Of course, they still needed to do the show per popular demand so they hastily hired some replacements. I like to think they've gotten better over the years though.

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This...
Is...
So great to hear!

At last, AshXMisty fans have no more basis! That'll shut them up!

To all who support it:

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Pokemon is so-so at this moment. Ash has gotten significantly creepy
*shudder*the eyes*shudder*. However, it's still cool. I'm not going to let Ash's eyes ruin it for me.

The anime: I liked everything up until the Unova series. I barely watched Sinnoh region.

The games: I love the games, I've played most of them. Can't wait for Black and White 2 this fall!

I've never seen the abridged series, I probably should.

Ah, the Unova saga... From what I've seen it doesn't quite match up with the Sinnoh saga in terms of characterization and heavy lampshade humor (For example, Paul emulating the personality of hyper-competitive players) but it's infinitely better on pacing and its own brand of humor (Using Attract to create Looney Tunes-style slapstick)

Iris is one of the most annoying characters of all time. So much so that I have no doubt it was entirely intentional. You see, Iris's most annoying quirk is calling Ash a kid when she is in fact, a kid herself. To be fair, Ash really did dumb down this season especially when you consider how epic he was during the last few episodes of the DP series. The thing about Iris though, is that she reflects those who talk down to people who are still interested in modern Pokemon. She is there to remind you how annoying you would sound when you call someone immature just because they're excited for Pokemon Black and White 2. She is there to remind we who remain loyal to Pokemon that there are people out there who will try to talk us down for doing what we love the way we want to do it. I'm probably reading too far into this but this belief really helps push through the hard times man. Besides, it's not all too crazy a theory. Iris loves Dragon types which reflects how many Gen1 players argue that Dragonite is one of the best powerhouses ever. Iris even HAS a Dragonite now.

There's a season 2 to the Unova series out in Japan now. From what I've seen (which is embarrassingly little) it looks pretty good. There's going to be a lot more Pokemon diversity and the return of fan favorites like Dawn and Cynthia (Misty who?).

Oh and what do I think of Cilan? He's definitely more entertaining than Brock. I don't hate Brock though, which is why I know it's better for him that he is no longer with Ash. Few people seem to know just WHY Brock left Ash this time. They don't seem to care but that reason is so important. He left because at the last minute he suddenly realized that he kinda sucked as a Pokemon breeder so he switched career paths and is now on the way to becoming a Pokemon Doctor. This is honestly what's best for him. How could you say you want Brock back in the show if it means he won't be able to enter the field of medicine and get to hang out with plenty of Nurse Joys? Do YOU want to be the one to deprive him of that happiness? You sick, sick person.

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I barely catch up with the anime nowadays. (I still love it though.)

I just think it sucks that in the Diamond and Pearl series Ash looks like he's 12 years old but then in the Black & White series he's 10 again. (second childhood...lucky!)

I have recently watched some episodes of Meloetta and I adore them, but maybe because I'm a music freak and I'm currently in a relationship with my piano.

And I am usually against fandom bashing but....I wish people would stop complaining about the current state of the pokemon anime as if it was a first world problem. I saw one person complain that the creators of the anime no longer care about the fans of the first generation and my head screamed, "It's not all about you guys! New generations of pokemon are meant to appeal to new generations of kids!"

Oh, and I may love the first season of pokemon as much as the next person but the first generation of pokemon is my least favorite, u mad? ;P

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Wow you are like, the greatest person ever. Not kidding in the slightest.

Stay golden.

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*hugs you* Thanks, that's the sweetest thing I heard today.

4th generation is my favorite, I wish I could love the 5th generation as much because I feel the 5th generation gets some uneeded hate.

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