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Re: The Last Airbender.Topic%20Title
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OriginalBubs wrote:
... Much apologies, I had not read the objections, nor had I seen the casting. In all honesty, I agree with you. The whole 'no Asians' argument is BS, but the lack of People of Color as actors as a whole is a true problem, and after seeing some of the arguments, I agree with them.

Sorry to come off as an ignorant asshole, merely had not seen the entire picture.


You really shouldn't be apologising to me, but accepted nonetheless. See? A little education goes a long way.

There are no characters in Airbender who are obviously Caucasian. Not a single one. Blondes? Redheads? None. The heavy influence of Asian culture and themes, yes. And characters, for once, who while embodying such Asian-ness are not all type-cast as villains is refreshing. It is expected that a film adaptation would follow through on this promising premise and include mostly PoC actors to fill the roles. Basically in the film, the only actor who is a PoC is the series' BAD GUY. I mean, NO WAT. The producers, having received a huge negative response from fans about the white-washing of the cast, decided to put a darling Indian-British boy as the villain in what they saw as balancing things out. Oh that's not sending the wrong message, not at alllll. Little white kids saving the world from the tyranny of a dark skinned Asian? Nothing wrong with that! Of course, the bad guys are all PoC..... OF COURSE. What an accurate reflection of real life.

Anyway yes, I'm tired and sick of playing 'spotting the asian/PoC' on TV and film. It's funny cause in Asia, Caucasian actors are getting more and more of a screen presence, but in the west, Asian actors are still shunned, even if they're Asian American.

I think I'll still enjoy the movie despite all this. It's cute that you kiddies don't get it, I wish I was young and naive enough to not care. *sigh*
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Last edited by hoshihoshi on Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Last Airbender.Topic%20Title
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Would it be emo weird if I tried to do my hair like toph?
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hoshihoshi wrote:
OriginalBubs wrote:
... Much apologies, I had not read the objections, nor had I seen the casting. In all honesty, I agree with you. The whole 'no Asians' argument is BS, but the lack of People of Color as actors as a whole is a true problem, and after seeing some of the arguments, I agree with them.

Sorry to come off as an ignorant asshole, merely had not seen the entire picture.


You really shouldn't be apologising to me, but accepted nonetheless.

There are no characters in Airbender who are obviously Caucasian. Not a single one. Blondes? Redheads? None. The heavy influence of Asian culture and themes, yes. And characters, for once, who while embodying such Asian-ness are not all type-cast as villains is refreshing. It is expected that a film adaptation would follow through on this promising premise and include mostly PoC actors to fill the roles. Basically in the film, the only actor who is a PoC is the series' BAD GUY. I mean, NO WAT. The producers, having received a huge negative response from fans about the white-washing of the cast, decided to put a darling Indian-British boy as the villain in what they saw as balancing things out. Oh that's not sending the wrong message, not at alllll. Little white kids saving the world from the tyranny of a dark skinned Asian? Nothing wrong with that! Of course, the bad guys are all PoC..... OF COURSE. What an accurate reflection of real life.

Anyway yes, I'm tired and sick of playing 'spotting the asian/PoC' on TV and film. It's funny cause in Asia, Caucasian actors are getting more and more of a screen presence, but in the west, Asian actors are still shunned, even if they're Asian American.

I think I'll still enjoy the movie despite all this.


Seconded, now that I've bothered to actually look to see the casting, you are entirely correct.
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feedmechocolate247 wrote:
Would it be emo weird if I tried to do my hair like toph?

no cause she is totally awesome...shes not even emo!
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girliedinosaur24 wrote:
feedmechocolate247 wrote:
Would it be emo weird if I tried to do my hair like toph?

no cause she is totally awesome...shes not even emo!


I know, but I was thinking because her bangs are all in her face! (maybe thats cause shes blind) I wish I could sense whats around me by feeling vibrations in the ground! :odoroki:
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Hahahaha no worries friend! and that would be awesome to be an earth bender!
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What this movie about? The first book? All of them compressed? I really need to get the series on dvd. I never got to see the whole thing.
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Judgemaster64 wrote:
What this movie about? The first book? All of them compressed? I really need to get the series on dvd. I never got to see the whole thing.

I think its just the first book...but im not too sure either! :knock-knock:
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Judgemaster64 wrote:
What this movie about? The first book? All of them compressed? I really need to get the series on dvd. I never got to see the whole thing.

pretty much everything, but lately its been a lot of the movie thats coming out! :will:
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girliedinosaur24 wrote:
Hahahaha no worries friend! and that would be awesome to be an earth bender!

My star sign says that my element is earth! Also if I could choose, I would choose earth. So its a win win situation! YAY!! :redd:
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feedmechocolate247 wrote:
girliedinosaur24 wrote:
Hahahaha no worries friend! and that would be awesome to be an earth bender!

My star sign says that my element is earth! Also if I could choose, I would choose earth. So its a win win situation! YAY!! :redd:

Yay thats awesome! I'm an air bender! When I read the description it fit my personality perfectly too! lol :redd:
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girliedinosaur24 wrote:
feedmechocolate247 wrote:
girliedinosaur24 wrote:
Hahahaha no worries friend! and that would be awesome to be an earth bender!

My star sign says that my element is earth! Also if I could choose, I would choose earth. So its a win win situation! YAY!! :redd:

Yay thats awesome! I'm an air bender! When I read the description it fit my personality perfectly too! lol :redd:

How cool, mine did too! I love elements! :will:
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Judgemaster64 wrote:
What this movie about? The first book? All of them compressed? I really need to get the series on dvd. I never got to see the whole thing.

I think its just the first book...but im not too sure either! :knock-knock:[/quote]

I pray it's only the first book, condensing multiple books would just be WAY too confusing.


girliedinosaur24 wrote:
feedmechocolate247 wrote:
girliedinosaur24 wrote:
Hahahaha no worries friend! and that would be awesome to be an earth bender!

My star sign says that my element is earth! Also if I could choose, I would choose earth. So its a win win situation! YAY!! :redd:

Yay thats awesome! I'm an air bender! When I read the description it fit my personality perfectly too! lol :redd:


I am the God of hellfire, and I bring you... FIYAH! (In other words, my element is fire.)
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Good call bubs!
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Yay! Thats soooooooo cool now we need a water bender! :redd:
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Oh! Water bending seems so relaxing!
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And our water bender needs to have hair loopys! :redd:
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This girl agrees!! Go Katara!! :will:
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I like Toph better... :knock-knock:
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Me too! heh heh one of my friends wrote TOPH all over my yearbook!!! It was very distracting!
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Oh dear! I love Toph! She is the tough one and I like that!
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Yeah, and I love how she is somewhat disabled "blind duh" but she is way more alert than anyone on the show!
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hoshihoshi wrote:
Er. No. You guys are the ones who are ignorant, racist and not thinking about the bigger picture. It's not just about the casting, but the implications that there is rampant surreptitious racism in the film industry and apparently everyone is colourblind.

Airbender isn't about casting Asians, but People of Color (PoC), that includes Inuits (which is what Katara and Sokka are). Do you even need for someone to spell it out for you? The lack of actors representing characters who are clearly people of colour should be that obvious. Even the creators of the original animated series have stated that they would have handled the casting very differently, and were very supportive of the racebending.com campaign.

You cannot call thousands of people who have submitted very eloquent, intelligent and rationally presented written objections to the casting as stupid or lazy or 'just didn't think AT ALL' because that only highlights your own ignorance and white privilege.

You really need to educate yourselves before you start talking about things you know nothing about.

EDIT: I respect your opinions that the casting is fine and that you'll like the movie, but that doesn't mean your opinion is right or that it is free of prejudice and racism. Just because you can't see the problems and reflected social stereotypes, doesn't mean it does not exist.


I will submit that the lack of PoC in casting is warranted of the write-ins, but as I pointed out, one of the most publicized and one I was referring to the lack of Asian casting. And I will also agree that there are no blatantly Caucasian characters in the series. But the way it's portrayed as if there was some decision to NOT cast Asians as if the only reason was because they were Asian.

Could there have been a more diverse cast in the film? Yes, of course. But you have to look at it this way, Shyamalan held open auditions for the film, and chose the lead based on his performance and martial arts skillset. He didn't pick it because he was white, he looked at the bigger picture, and thought that the kid had the best performance of the audition. In the casting of Katara, Shyamalan said he wanted to work with the actress, and was sure of that one factor. To say that he was being blatantly racist is a bit of a hasty comment.

Also, calling someone ignorant and racist is not a way to begin an argument.
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I started watching the series when it first aired, but then I stopped

I might actually go see, and possibly start watching the series again
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Percei wrote:
I will submit that the lack of PoC in casting is warranted of the write-ins, but as I pointed out, one of the most publicized and one I was referring to the lack of Asian casting. And I will also agree that there are no blatantly Caucasian characters in the series. But the way it's portrayed as if there was some decision to NOT cast Asians as if the only reason was because they were Asian.

Could there have been a more diverse cast in the film? Yes, of course. But you have to look at it this way, Shyamalan held open auditions for the film, and chose the lead based on his performance and martial arts skillset. He didn't pick it because he was white, he looked at the bigger picture, and thought that the kid had the best performance of the audition. In the casting of Katara, Shyamalan said he wanted to work with the actress, and was sure of that one factor. To say that he was being blatantly racist is a bit of a hasty comment.

Also, calling someone ignorant and racist is not a way to begin an argument.


Ok, first of all, you made this about you, and Originalbubs has already understood where the point of contention is coming from so I will retract my 'you're an ignorant and racist assprick' statement. I didn't appreciate being looped in with the internet crowd who can't think for themselves and implied as as stupid either.

So anyway, Shyamalan's role as director/producer/main writer was the 1st big mistake. And like I said, the original creators said they would have done things differently, and I have serious doubts they would have that man high on their list of 'directors who will accurately portray our show according to our wishes'. We know he's a runaway trainwreck that one. So excuse me for frowning upon whatever excuses he used for casting. Anyway, we don't know that he is the man responsible for all the casting choices. Possibly some of his opinions were influential, but if you're saying that a non-caucasian director chose Caucasian actors based upon their talent at acting or martial arts skills, you need to provide some evidence to back that claim. From where I'm standing, and from the povs of thousands of angry fans out there, it seems pretty obvious there is a prejudice - say maybe from some of the other producers or the studio/distributor, and maybe industry expectations in general. The people with the money get to have the final say. And Hollywood has been traditionally a white man's business.

Also, I never said Shyamalan is racist. It's the industry, the fact that the Western world is still uncomfortable with having PoC in major roles on tv and film. White privilege still dominates the collective subconscious.\

EDIT:

And to put the nail in the coffin, so to speak, there are many film critics out there who are just as disappointed with the casting choices as the fans are. Eg. Roger Ebert (THE authorative critic of our times) said the following (quoted from Wikipedia):

""The original series Avatar: The Last Airbender was highly regarded and popular for three seasons on Nickelodeon. Its fans take it for granted that its heroes are Asian. Why would Paramount and Shyamalan go out of their way to offend these fans? There are many young Asian actors capable of playing the parts."

(Source)

And Jevon Phillips of the Los Angeles Times noted that despite Shyamalan's attempts to defuse the situation, the issue will "not fade away or be overlooked", and that this film exemplifies the need for a debate within Hollywood about racial diversity in its films.

(Source)

I defy anyone who still thinks it's OK to cast Caucasians into roles that were not originally meant for them. How many examples can you think of where a role that was traditionally or taken for granted being played by a Caucasian later given to a PoC? Off the top of my head I can only think of Lucy Liu in Charlies Angels, and that's only because many men find Asian girls hot.
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Ignoring the argument of the cast selection being racist...

I REALLY want to see this movie. With Shyamalan as the director, this moving is either going to be AMAZING [Harry Potter series, The Sixth Sense, etc.] or absolutely horrible [Lady of the Water (or whatever it's called. I'm going off of reviews on that one, because I refuse to watch it), THE FUCKING HAPPENING, etc.]. I really hope it's the first one.

And the whole race thing everyone's complaining about is really stupid. Maybe they chose that kid for Aang because there were no little asian kids with as good martial arts skills as him? Honestly, I would prefer an asian kid to play as Aang, but that would still be kind of racist. Do you want to know why? Because almost every time you see asians in movies, they're doing some form of martial arts. So it's either people complaining about lack of race diversity or people complaining about stereotypes. Katara and Sokka [I love the choice of Rathbone being his actor] are pretty open to being whatever race because the most they showed was slight hints at being Native American [sorry, don't want to offend people by saying 'Indian' since everyone's so touchy about race nowadays] and that doesn't even matter since the races in Avatar aren't even the same as ours. How the hell can Aang be asian if there is no Asia? And how can Katara and Sokka be Indian/Native American if there is no America? You people make no sense...
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Just so you guys know: it IS just the first book. Shyamalan wants to make this a trilogy and therefore one movie per book. Of course, whether the sequels get made or not made or not depends on how well the movie does. (see: Eragon and The Golden Compass)
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fatalfeline wrote:
Just so you guys know: it IS just the first book. Shyamalan wants to make this a trilogy and therefore one movie per book. Of course, whether the sequels get made or not made or not depends on how well the movie does. (see: Eragon and The Golden Compass)

Thank you for the clarification!

I hope its good so it can get sequels! :maya:
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ChocolateXCheese wrote:
Ignoring the argument of the cast selection being racist...

I REALLY want to see this movie. With Shyamalan as the director, this moving is either going to be AMAZING [Harry Potter series, The Sixth Sense, etc.] or absolutely horrible [Lady of the Water (or whatever it's called. I'm going off of reviews on that one, because I refuse to watch it), THE FUCKING HAPPENING, etc.]. I really hope it's the first one.

And the whole race thing everyone's complaining about is really stupid. Maybe they chose that kid for Aang because there were no little asian kids with as good martial arts skills as him? Honestly, I would prefer an asian kid to play as Aang, but that would still be kind of racist. Do you want to know why? Because almost every time you see asians in movies, they're doing some form of martial arts. So it's either people complaining about lack of race diversity or people complaining about stereotypes. Katara and Sokka [I love the choice of Rathbone being his actor] are pretty open to being whatever race because the most they showed was slight hints at being Native American [sorry, don't want to offend people by saying 'Indian' since everyone's so touchy about race nowadays] and that doesn't even matter since the races in Avatar aren't even the same as ours. How the hell can Aang be asian if there is no Asia? And how can Katara and Sokka be Indian/Native American if there is no America? You people make no sense...


I will still go see the movie because I love the series and overlooking the casting malfunction will be top priority.

However, again, the monumentous negative response to the casting selection cannot be denied. If there are this many people outraged by something, it is probably highly likely there is something wrong. Luther King's march wasn't an overreaction, although I'm sure many Caucasians thought just like you do and can't really understand/accept there is something wrong. I wonder what the fuss is all about? Hmm this is so stupid! ... yes. Of course.

Then again, you're pretty young so I can't expect you to see why people won't just shut up about it and enjoy a movie. I hope you're not Caucasian, but if you are the very fact this race debate is not making sense to you demonstrates your own white privilege. Hopefully the education affored to you in the forthcoming years will help clarify the race debate, which will continue for the foreseeable future.
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ChocolateXCheese wrote:
How the hell can Aang be asian if there is no Asia? And how can Katara and Sokka be Indian/Native American if there is no America?


In addendum to my last post, sorry for double posting:

Ok stop right there, please.

There are countless references to actual Asian or Inuit culture in the original animation. COUNTLESS.

For example, this picture.
Image

That is the Great Wall of China in the background. So why would the Great Wall of China, which is a real place, be in Airbender where there is no place called China? HMMM.

And before you say anymore about 'it's not a real world with real countries therefore there is no such thing as race' and make a total fool of yourself, please take a look at the list of influences on the series. You might find to your suprise that there are bucketloads of real cultural references used in the series. There is your link to the real world. Let's face it, Airbender isn't exactly original in its characters/designs, and the aetiology of various concepts/people/costume/prop/architecture/philosophy/battles/weaponry are all taken from places on earth. There is no way you can deny the racial link is nonexistent too.

Ergo, your argument is void.
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I will go ahead and concede the argument to you, as you do make valid points, as to where my argument is harder to back up. Yet you have not convinced me. It doesn't help when you hide behind a shield of insults and mildly personal attacks such as equating youth with ignorance. In some cases yes, today's youth can be ignorant, but to use that as a blanket statement to all those younger than you does detract from your credibility.

I am a few years beneath you, yet I consider myself fairly well versed and try as hard as I can to not be ignorant, and if I find myself to be, I try to correct it. Also, the tags "I Draw Smut" and labelling yourself "psycho bitch" don't help your case either.
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Percei wrote:
I will go ahead and concede the argument to you, as you do make valid points, as to where my argument is harder to back up. Yet you have not convinced me. It doesn't help when you hide behind a shield of insults and mildly personal attacks such as equating youth with ignorance. In some cases yes, today's youth can be ignorant, but to use that as a blanket statement to all those younger than you does detract from your credibility.

I am a few years beneath you, yet I consider myself fairly well versed and try as hard as I can to not be ignorant, and if I find myself to be, I try to correct it. Also, the tags "I Draw Smut" and labelling yourself "psycho bitch" don't help your case either.


Ok I'm not saying all young people are ignorant by choice or because of their age. I'm saying being young generally means less exposure to the world, less life experience, less educational opportunities - this is by no means a generalisation because it is true - and it logically follows as a result, there is less understanding. When I was 14 or 15 I thought myself fairly educated/intelligent, but through the years and by being exposed to the workings of the society at large out of the comfort zone of my family or school, I've realised my youthful confidence in myself is as naive as it gets. But I applaud you in debating with me on this topic because it means it is something that interests you, and that is a beautiful thing.

I apologise for my sig/avatar/thing. I'll probably change them soon anyway. But please don't make judgements about what kind of person I am because of those. That would be just as bad as me mudslinging you.
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But that's alright because I like the way it hurts


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Re: The Last Airbender.Topic%20Title
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hoshihoshi wrote:
ChocolateXCheese wrote:
How the hell can Aang be asian if there is no Asia? And how can Katara and Sokka be Indian/Native American if there is no America?


In addendum to my last post, sorry for double posting:

Ok stop right there, please.

There are countless references to actual Asian or Inuit culture in the original animation. COUNTLESS.

For example, this picture.
Image

That is the Great Wall of China in the background. So why would the Great Wall of China, which is a real place, be in Airbender where there is no place called China? HMMM.

And before you say anymore about 'it's not a real world with real countries therefore there is no such thing as race' and make a total fool of yourself, please take a look at the list of influences on the series. You might find to your suprise that there are bucketloads of real cultural references used in the series. There is your link to the real world. Let's face it, Airbender isn't exactly original in its characters/designs, and the aetiology of various concepts/people/costume/prop/architecture/philosophy/battles/weaponry are all taken from places on earth. There is no way you can deny the racial link is nonexistent too.

Ergo, your argument is void.


My argument is not 'void' and I never said there wasn't any racial connections. There are shitloads of links to races in the Avatar series and I've known that ever since I started watching the series [which was years ago]. What I said was that their world IS a different world from ours, so they can't be Asian or Indian. They can be whatever races in their world that look and act similarly to our own, but they can't possibly be races from our world. And who knows, they could have a giant wall in their world on some continent somewhere. Their world is extremely similar to ours because of all the inspiration and influences that came from ours. And I'm not saying that the lack of race variety isn't a bad thing, because it really is horrible, but people are taking it the wrong way. I really don't think he picked the cast because they were Caucasian, I think he picked them for their acting skills and martial arts ability. It would certainly be better if their ethnicity [or at least their appearance] were more accurate, but their abilities and how well they could perform in this movie were also fairly important.

Also, don't dismiss my claims because of my age. Age doesn't matter. Experience matters. And "white privilege"? Wow, what is this, the 1950s? No one ever seems to notice discrimination against Caucasians. As soon as a white person insults anyone of a different race, no matter what the insult was, it was fucking racist, right? Gawd... We may have it slightly less, but it still happens pretty frequently.

My point in a nutshell: Race doesn't fucking matter. We're all human. Get the fuck over it and go watch the damn movie and ENJOY IT. Now, can we please end this discussion and actually talk about the movie itself?
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ChocolateXCheese wrote:
My argument is not 'void' and I never said there wasn't any racial connections. There are shitloads of links to races in the Avatar series and I've known that ever since I started watching the series [which was years ago]. What I said was that their world IS a different world from ours, so they can't be Asian or Indian. They can be whatever races in their world that look and act similarly to our own, but they can't possibly be races from our world. And who knows, they could have a giant wall in their world on some continent somewhere. Their world is extremely similar to ours because of all the inspiration and influences that came from ours. And I'm not saying that the lack of race variety isn't a bad thing, because it really is horrible, but people are taking it the wrong way. I really don't think he picked the cast because they were Caucasian, I think he picked them for their acting skills and martial arts ability. It would certainly be better if their ethnicity [or at least their appearance] were more accurate, but their abilities and how well they could perform in this movie were also fairly important.

Also, don't dismiss my claims because of my age. Age doesn't matter. Experience matters. And "white privilege"? Wow, what is this, the 1950s? No one ever seems to notice discrimination against Caucasians. As soon as a white person insults anyone of a different race, no matter what the insult was, it was fucking racist, right? Gawd... We may have it slightly less, but it still happens pretty frequently.

My point in a nutshell: Race doesn't fucking matter. We're all human. Get the fuck over it and go watch the damn movie and ENJOY IT. Now, can we please end this discussion and actually talk about the movie itself?


OH MY GOD.

DID YOU JUST DENY THE EXISTENCE OF WHITE PRIVILEGE AND DISMISS IT AS ARCHAIC?

OH MY FRIGGIN GOD.

....

Race doesn't matter?

WHAT.

WHAT.

WHAT.

I DO NOT EVEN.

Image

Never have I seen someone so blatantly display their racist, deeply entrenched racist, attitudes and defend it as righteous, no - deny it outright and then pretend it's all fine. How can anybody in their right mind write what you just did and thought it be logically sound and correct? Inform yourself please. Don't be blind to your own racist attitudes just because it does not affect you. You need a crash course in Racism 101 or God help you.

Thanks for making me feel physically SICK. I think I actually threw up a little in my mouth. BARF.

White Privilege - Learn it.

Really, I want to just enjoy the movie too, but with attitudes like yours been shoved in my face like I'm the one who is offending you, I don't even think I can bear to even think about the movie now that I won't be able to stop linking sentiments like yours with it. Thanks again for ruining my evening, and my future enjoyment of Airbender. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
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RIP Tobi Wong
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lol boobs.

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Not even two facepalms are enough for this, seriously.

hoshihoshi wrote:
How can anybody in their right mind write what you just did and thought it be logically sound and correct?


I'm wondering the same about your post.

I didn't know someone who thinks race doesn't matter and sees everyone as a human is a fucking racist.
YOU'RE A RACIST IF YOU JUDGE PEOPLE BY THEIR RACE.

Did she really do that? I don't think so.
I'm pretty sure you didn't even get the point, and you probably never will.

Or I didn't get your point and I'm just an ignorant racist making use of my white privilege. >=|


"According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups."

ChocolateXCheese wrote:
My point in a nutshell: Race doesn't fucking matter. We're all human.


that's so racist omg
Image

"also you meant: Are you from Germany, sorry on the one hand I am not sure about English grammar on the other hand I am a grammar nazi" - Coffee Prosecutor
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I wanna watch it. It sounds cool. :shoe:
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Race aside, I've read many reviews about how crap this movie was in general. I'm not happy with this at all... Sure, it only matters how I think of the movie, but I don't want to waste a bunch of money on something that I may or may not like. I'd rather wait for the movie to come out on video, preferably the library, so I can watch it for free.

I love the cartoon so much, it's just so disheartening to see the movie not doing the original any justice whatsoever. Please tell me Shamalama isn't going to be making the next two... *sigh* :yuusaku:
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xFlame990 wrote:
I wanna watch it. It sounds cool. :shoe:


That is one of the best and most valid opinions here right now.

Back on topic, no matter how horrible the movie may be, I'm still going to see it. The thing that pissed me off the most out of what I've seen so far was what they did to Uncle. D= He's not fat anymore...
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Admiral Zhao has a Jheri curl. WTF
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