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Sub or dub?
https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=27404		 Page 3 of 3
Author:  Professor Yoshi [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
CatMuto wrote:
Professor Yoshi wrote:
As far as bad dubs, anything by 4Kids. Although I must admit I have a certain nostalgic love for their Yugioh dub, since I grew up with Yugioh all around me and it just happened to be on TV all the time. It sucks a big one, no doubt. But it's got that "so bad it's good" feel to it.


I dunno, I mostly grew up with the German Dub of YuGiOh! and it was based on the American version - lying TV announcer - the only English YGO episode I watched was Anzu-I mean Téa VS Penguin and that was a pretty weird episode to begin with. I guess main reason I don't like YGO's dub is simply because of the stuff they altered. Oh man, no, we can't have a bare navel on TV! Think of the children! Won't somebody please think of the children!?
Considering they're letting An-Téa on TV and her rack is so large it's practically POINTY...

Wait, this doesn't have anything to do with Dub VS Sub, more like censorship...

C-A


Their Yugioh dub is probably the better one they've done. Their One Piece dub however...it's infamous for how bad it is.
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
The 1970s were the first time anime was ever dubbed into English. Mostly they were done just so they could show the films on international flights to other countries. A lot of these were really poor because they literally took ANYONE from the studio who spoke fluent English, threw them into the recording booth, gave them a script, and taped their voice for a few hours. Nowadays, dubs are much better because they hire professional actors. For instance, the Disney dubs for Ghibli films are usually done well because they use well-known celebrities and are overseen by Miyazaki himself.

I think that for some shows, you HAVE to watch the sub even if a dub exists. Azumanga Daioh is a good example of that. It's a show about Japanese high school life and there are quite a few jokes that deal with the characters' inability to speak English. Many of the speech patterns, jokes, and references are lost in translation to English.
Author:  CatMuto [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
I think that for some shows, you HAVE to watch the sub even if a dub exists. Azumanga Daioh is a good example of that. It's a show about Japanese high school life and there are quite a few jokes that deal with the characters' inability to speak English. Many of the speech patterns, jokes, and references are lost in translation to English.


That's a problem with most translations. Unless you have a writer who knows both languages really well and is good at things, especially puns, he can make things work. They can make a pun that works in a way that it could reference the original Japanese joke.
I mentioned it before, but Conan is notorious for it.
There are so many puns, hints and evidence that only makes sense in Japanese. Even the scanlation team has trouble sometimes because they can't really change things, without losing the original concept and even then it makes no sense.

Or accents! Osaka-ben is pretty different. Generally, Jibun is meant in a way that somebody is talking about themselves. But Osaka-ben (Kansai region and all) has Jibun refer to somebody else, generally the 2nd person - they are talking about 'you' and not themselves. That can be really tough to figure out at times.

C-A
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Yeah, in the English dub of Azumanga Daioh, they just give Osaka (who's from Osaka, Japan) a Southern accent.

I also remember a joke regarding Bruce Lee's name. Since Japanese usually put their last name before their given name, they can't understand the name Bruce Lee. They also pronounce it as "Blue Three."
Author:  Ash [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
CatMuto wrote:
Or accents! Osaka-ben is pretty different. Generally, Jibun is meant in a way that somebody is talking about themselves. But Osaka-ben (Kansai region and all) has Jibun refer to somebody else, generally the 2nd person - they are talking about 'you' and not themselves. That can be really tough to figure out at times


Note that in this case, you're talking about Osakaben as a dialect, not an accent (there is a distinct accent though). And the usage of jibun as a second person pronoun appears in all of Kansai, not just Osaka (Osaka-ben =/= Kansai-ben). It's not a rare practice though, people use boku (mostly masculine first person pronoun) as a second person pronoun for kids all the time [/used to specialize in Japanese sociolinguistics]

Quote:
Yeah, in the English dub of Azumanga Daioh, they just give Osaka (who's from Osaka, Japan) a Southern accent


Not a very strange choice however. In most of the comics, Osaka is just presented as a girl 'different' from the main cast (= 'normal' English), a bit slower etc. Translating role language is usually matching stereotypes, and this is different per culture / language. I.e. Osaka-ben has several stereotypes in Japanese fiction / mass media, and depending on the prevelant role, translators have to go for different speech patterns in the target language (i.e. a 'yakuza' user of Osaka-ben is more likely to be translated with a NY accent / maybe an Italian 'mafia' accent, whereas a comedy figure is more likely to be translated with a Southern accent).

About the sub vs. dub debate; I can understand Japanese, so I usually don't watch dubs. But if the acting is good, I usually don't mind. But I prefer the original as a rule (not just anime or Japanese products). And I don't mind reading subtitles.
Author:  Hylian100 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
I'll reiterate what I said before, it entirely depends on the series.
For example Cowboy Bebop and Hellsing Ultimate, I pretty much can't watch in Japanese, the English voice acting's just so good. Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex also has a bloody good dub, though I haven't watched it subbed for comparison. As does Samurai Champloo, though I switch that up.
08th MS Team, which I'm currently watching, I had to seek out the sub for, the dub is generally quite bad (with the exception of Master Chief Karen Joshua.) Can't remember what I watched Wing in, sure it was the sub.
The original Neon Genesis Evangelion had a pretty bad dub apart from a few performances. Rebuild has a pretty damn good dub, keeping the good performances of the original in their roles. Again, I tend to swtich up Rebuild, since I like both of the voice tracks.
Generally, I watch Miyazaki films in English, they're always pretty good, (and when you can have Patrick Stewart as a badass swordsman, why would you listen to anything else?) and fit in with his vision of everyone experiencing them in their native language. Not to say I don't watch them in Japanese when they're on TV in that, which they have been a few times.

So, there's my two cents on the subject, there's more examples than this of course, but I'd be here a while.
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Here's something you rarely hear talked about. The AMOUNT of English dubs that are made for some films. There are quite a few anime movies out there that have multiple English dubs. For instance, Lupin III - Mystery of Mamo has FOUR English dubs. :beef:

I think it has something to do with legal issues. Streamline did a lot of dubs in their day, but they eventually went out of business or sold off their properties. They technically probably owned the rights in terms of the voice acting, so many companies decided to produce their own dubs. That, or the original dub wasn't up to the company's standards. With the case of Mystery of Mamo, the DVD released by Discotek actually has all four dubs (plus the original Japanese audio). Having more than one English dub included on home video releases of anime is very rare. I'm assuming that since most of the companies that owned Mystery of Mamo throughout the series either went out of the business or lost the rights, Discotek was able to secure all of the dubs and release them all together with no hassle.

The rarest of English dubs are the ones used for international flights overseas. Since the whole point of these dubs was to quickly allow passengers to watch the films English with almost no regards as to the actual quality, many of these had poor sound quality and/or acting. A lot of these dubs were poorly documented, so a majority of the casts remained uncredited and the actual prints very hard to find. Mystery of Mamo's first ever dub was thought to have been lost for years, but it later resurfaced on bootlegged VHS tapes through various cons and online auctions; eventually being remastered for the DVD release. Many of the early Miyazaki films had an older pre-Disney dub, either produced directly by Streamline or for overseas flights. It's pretty interesting to think that there's a whole other "lost" side to English dubbing, huh? :meekins:
Author:  Jean Descole [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
The 1970s were the first time anime was ever dubbed into English.


Counterpoint: Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atomu) - 1963
Counterpoint: Gigantor (Tetsujin 28-go) - 1964
Counterpoint: Speed Racer (Mach GoGoGo) - 1967

These were dubbed even before Princess Knight (Ribon no Kishi) - 1970!
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Quote:
Counterpoint: Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atomu) - 1963
Counterpoint: Gigantor (Tetsujin 28-go) - 1964
Counterpoint: Speed Racer (Mach GoGoGo) - 1967

These were dubbed even before Princess Knight (Ribon no Kishi) - 1970!


I'm not doubting you or anything, but where those anime actually BROADCASTED in English during the 60s? You're probably right though. My mistake.
Author:  Jean Descole [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
Quote:
Counterpoint: Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atomu) - 1963
Counterpoint: Gigantor (Tetsujin 28-go) - 1964
Counterpoint: Speed Racer (Mach GoGoGo) - 1967

These were dubbed even before Princess Knight (Ribon no Kishi) - 1970!


I'm not doubting you or anything, but where those anime actually BROADCASTED in English during the 60s? You're probably right though. My mistake.


Yes, the first three were.
Author:  Ash [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
Many of the early Miyazaki films had an older pre-Disney dub, either produced directly by Streamline or for overseas flights. It's pretty interesting to think that there's a whole other "lost" side to English dubbing, huh? :meekins:


Actually, the first time I saw Laputa was with the Streamline dub, which was was broadcast on Hong Kong television (English channel). That dub is also available on the Japanese DVD of Laputa (which I have)
Author:  ekree [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
I don't watch a whole lot of anime, but I tend to stick with dubs when I do. I'll watch a sub when it's the only thing available, but I feel it's easier to stay immersed when I can understand the voices.
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Quote:
I don't watch a whole lot of anime, but I tend to stick with dubs when I do. I'll watch a sub when it's the only thing available, but I feel it's easier to stay immersed when I can understand the voices.


But if the anime primarily takes place in Japan and revolves around Japanese culture and such; I think it should be pretty much MANDATORY to watch the sub. Stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Hayao Miyazaki films are fine in English; but movies like Grave of the Fireflies and 5 Centimeters Per Second pretty much have to be watched in Japanese or you lose the meaning.
Author:  Blak The Great [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
Quote:
I don't watch a whole lot of anime, but I tend to stick with dubs when I do. I'll watch a sub when it's the only thing available, but I feel it's easier to stay immersed when I can understand the voices.


But if the anime primarily takes place in Japan and revolves around Japanese culture and such; I think it should be pretty much MANDATORY to watch the sub. Stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Hayao Miyazaki films are fine in English; but movies like Grave of the Fireflies and 5 Centimeters Per Second pretty much have to be watched in Japanese or you lose the meaning.


I can't watch Gurren Lagann in English. It's just not as hype as the Japanese dub :P
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Quote:
I can't watch Gurren Lagann in English. It's just not as hype as the Japanese dub :P


Yeah, that's the same with me for certain series like Azumanga Daioh.

BTW, did you change your profile gender? I remember that you were classified as "Male" before. :beef:
Author:  Blak The Great [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
Quote:
I can't watch Gurren Lagann in English. It's just not as hype as the Japanese dub :P


Yeah, that's the same with me for certain series like Azumanga Daioh.

BTW, did you change your profile gender? I remember that you were classified as "Male" before. :beef:


I've always been a girl :jake:
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Quote:
I've always been a girl :jake:


Uh, if you say so.
Author:  ekree [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
Quote:
I don't watch a whole lot of anime, but I tend to stick with dubs when I do. I'll watch a sub when it's the only thing available, but I feel it's easier to stay immersed when I can understand the voices.


But if the anime primarily takes place in Japan and revolves around Japanese culture and such; I think it should be pretty much MANDATORY to watch the sub. Stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Hayao Miyazaki films are fine in English; but movies like Grave of the Fireflies and 5 Centimeters Per Second pretty much have to be watched in Japanese or you lose the meaning.

Well, the anime I've seen mostly consists of fantasy stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist and Tales series OVAs, so I've never really had to worry about the cultural differences that much. Still, it's something to consider...I don't know much about Japanese culture so I would probably have a hard time following those movies even with subs. :knock-knock:
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Quote:
Well, the anime I've seen mostly consists of fantasy stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist and Tales series OVAs, so I've never really had to worry about the cultural differences that much. Still, it's something to consider...I don't know much about Japanese culture so I would probably have a hard time following those movies even with subs. :knock-knock:


Even still, that wouldn't matter. Grave of the Fireflies is about two young Japanese children during the last days of WWII. There is an English dub, but why would you watch it that way? These are JAPANESE children, and this film takes place in Japan. The actors are Japanese, and Japan is the only country to ever be affected by nuclear weapons. The English actors are okay, but they lack the true, raw emotion to convey what these characters are going through.

Either that, or if the dub sucks; just stick with the original Japanese.
Author:  Church Of Sumire [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
I have to say anime sub cuz alot of dub anime characters have voices that dont match their personality or appearance, Also i just like the japanese language and accent so as a true otaku i have to say anime sub all the way :edgy:
Author:  Emiko Nabile Gale [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Inspector Cabanela wrote:
I have to say anime sub cuz alot of dub anime characters have voices that dont match their personality or appearance, Also i just like the japanese language and accent so as a true otaku i have to say anime sub all the way :edgy:


.......True otaku?
Author:  Blak The Great [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Emiko Gale wrote:
Inspector Cabanela wrote:
I have to say anime sub cuz alot of dub anime characters have voices that dont match their personality or appearance, Also i just like the japanese language and accent so as a true otaku i have to say anime sub all the way :edgy:


.......True otaku?


His room must be adorned with figures and dakimakuras too :P
Author:  General Luigi [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sub or dub?
Professor, Blak was right about there already being a thread about this. It was on the third page of the forum. Still, no harm done. I just merged your thread with the original, as you can see.

Edit: Гм... It appears merging the threads has led to the old thread being treated as having the new thread's title.
Author:  TopHatProfessor1014 [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sub or dub?
General Luigi wrote:
Professor, Blak was right about there already being a thread about this. It was on the third page of the forum. Still, no harm done. I just merged your thread with the original, as you can see.

Edit: Гм... It appears merging the threads has led to the old thread being treated as having the new thread's title.


Sorry, didn't know. Glad it's all sorted out now.
Author:  Church Of Sumire [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anime: Sub vs. Dub. Which Side Are You?
Blak The Great wrote:
Emiko Gale wrote:
Inspector Cabanela wrote:
I have to say anime sub cuz alot of dub anime characters have voices that dont match their personality or appearance, Also i just like the japanese language and accent so as a true otaku i have to say anime sub all the way :edgy:


.......True otaku?


His room must be adorned with figures and dakimakuras too :P


There you go :D
Author:  Southern Corn [ Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sub or dub?
While I'm not exactly an anime connoisseur (read: weaboo), I've grown to prefer dubs myself. Mainly because they're in a language I'm personally more familiar with, and also so that I don't unnecessarily overstrain my eyes looking at the subtitles constantly. Though sometimes when there's no dub, sub works fine. I guess.
Author:  TheDoctor [ Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sub or dub?
Honestly, it depends on what I'm watching. If I like the way the dub sounds, I'll tend to go with that. However, a lot of it depends on which version I watch first. I tend to prefer the version I start with 90% of the time, though there were a few notable exceptions, like Overlord.

Sound quality can be a factor too. I don't know what it was about the recording in Final Fantasy XV, but the English audio sounded... off for some reason. Like the lines weren't being spoken in the locations they were being shown, while the Japanese lines sound like they had a more organic quality.
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