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Nonary Game 8 Post-Game ThreadTopic%20Title
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It's all over! Thanks to all for playing the Nonary Game!

It's quite difficult having to maintain the Nonary Game and keeping up with everyone. As such, I am glad to actually have this game done and over with. Given that this was my first time being a NG GM, so of course, I made some mistakes, but hey, it's just me being a rookie GM. Anyway, I have learnt a lot from GMing the 8th Nonary Game, such as don't meta-confirm stuff and stuff.

Moving on to the thanks. First of all, a big thank you to JesusMonroe for teaching me how to do my GM job properly. Without you, the Nonary Game would have been a disaster, but you taught me how to do my job the right way. Next, I'd like to give my thanks to the newcomers, Muzosavr, S4K4MOTO, and Joker. Congratulations on winning your first Nonary Game! And finally, to the other players, a big thanks you for playing the game! And a big thank you to all the players. You all made characters that are memorable. There's character memorable moments, which I'll talk about later as I have to get to the main point of this thread.

Anyway, the Room QTs are as following:

Round 1 Rooms
Dining Hall: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/e9kNP264WML3X
Security Room: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/LCZUmCtcQ6E
Kitchen: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/fEspTXqzKduNT

Virgo's Redemption Room: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/5DqrUiyMtgYw

Round 2 Rooms
Doctor's Office: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/uAmLHFega36s
Arcade: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/CRpx9c2iE6E
Garden: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/VfPLJG6cZ4g

Sin's Redemption Room: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/KLkf5U8UH9hXL

Round 3 Rooms
Library: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JrmBpta6EqSK
Nursery: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/X5nHBh3g9Db
Living Room: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/d8hiiLPG8eg

Pitch's Redemption Room: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JMb7qZRQurLE

Round 4 Rooms
Workshop: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/MiLgbhK3CNi3Q
Director's Office: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/AUnepPCSzZyR
Office: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/urWTTSgNEXeG6

Psi's Redemption Room: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/mEaH9d3ZBVn

The player QTs will go up when I have got some inputs from the surviving players on their endings.
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Yaaaay it's over! Congrats to Hanzo for GMing, I enjoyed the game enough, the first half especially. This might be the most I've ever enjoyed an even numbered NG as well, so congrats on that too. I liked the characters too, though I'm not sure which I'd say is the best character, really. I suppose I liked Blaze, Sin and Pitch a lot, but I don't think I ever disliked anybody at all, really?

Not much really to say for now, I guess as time goes on I'll add onto what the others say.
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I really liked this game, but there were a few really odd decisions you made throughout it. For instance, killing taking away your voting points. I didn't really like that, makes killing really pointless and imo killing should be an integral part of an NG.

Otherwise, good game. Everyone was pretty cool.
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Datamatt wrote:
I really liked this game, but there were a few really odd decisions you made throughout it. For instance, killing taking away your voting points. I didn't really like that, makes killing really pointless and imo killing should be an integral part of an NG.

Otherwise, good game. Everyone was pretty cool.


Oh yeah some stuff like that was weird. I did think it was sort of weird to do that because that meant there really was just zero incentive to really kill or do anything risky in general. In fact I think it would've made more sense to make killing increase your voting points since that would've been more interesting. Other than the devices which were pretty difficult to find in the rooms, there really wasn't any other way to increase your voting points either.

That said the final voting phase was cool and intriguing but I wish there were more moments like that throughout the game. Generally I thought the game could have maybe been benefited by an extra phase between just solving puzzle rooms, like the lynching phases in NG5 or the AB game in NG6. It made the first part go by pretty quickly and it felt sort of strange without anything else in between.

I guess you could argue that the redemption rooms existed and stuff but eh. Maybe they would've been better had they been done in pairs or something. Like Psi/Jupiter, Dee/Peri, etc with maybe Deux or Blaze not getting one. Would have required some rewriting but I generally would have preferred that to just one person having a room to themselves mainly because it made things a bit dull for the others.

The fact that there were only 4 of them in total felt pretty arbitrary to me, and the decisions themselves weren't that interesting to me. Psi/Virgo's were simple enough and didn't really have much of a choice to make. Maybe they were given too much freedom on who to spare and whatnot. Sin's was okay but way more puzzleheavy compared to the others? I recall it taking a lot of time to do and checking the room itself, I can see why. That is pretty extreme.

Pitch's was probably the worst to me mainly because it was just blatantly rigged against him? Like the entire game was pretty much rigged against him from the start which was pretty unfair to me. It makes sense from a story perspective but I sort of felt it wasn't really that good from the player's perspective, mainly because he seemed destined to die no matter what. Either he could shoot himself in his own trial (which I think would've been impossible but whatever) or he could've shot Diego, making him lose voting points and also screwing him over big time for the final vote.

And considering how rare the vote increment devices were (I thoroughly searched like 75% of the rooms I was in and found nothing of the sort), that meant that it was near impossible for him to make a comeback. The fact that both Jesse and Fiona both had their vote points doubled also made it really hard for him to prevent his own death. Granted it got close near the end and I think it could have been possible for us to prevent him from dying but yeah, the entire game was just blatantly against him from the start.

Oh and speaking of the redemption rooms, one minor nitpick I had was just that they took a lot of time to do sometimes. And not just the rooms themselves, even figuring out whose it was took a lot of time with everyone usually trying out the key to see if it fit. It was sort of alright the first time but afterwards it felt like a weird formality and I wish those could have been bypassed with a GM post that just details who it belongs to and then commencing the room itself.

In fact the whole game was just sort of filled with these weird formalities where everyone had to post once in order to proceed, especially at the ending part where we had to step on the elevators. That part was pretty drawn out mainly because of how many times we had to do something. First it was confirming we had nothing to discuss and then stepping on the elevator, then it was meeting with the redemption room people (which probably could've been saved for the end) and then it was stepping on the elevator again. Not mentioning the stuff about how we had to leave our weapons behind after that and then we all had to post about getting on the podium, but at least those felt necessary in comparison? That whole phase could have just been skipped entirely. Same with the part after escaping right at the end. I honestly wasn't even sure what we were waiting for but it kept going on anyway.

I realise that's a lot of critical stuff up there coming from someone who claims to have liked the game, but I really did have a problem with those. I enjoyed the game overall but stuff like that was weird.

Also, what were the solutions to the anagrams? Not that anyone actually tried solving them much but it would be nice to know now, I guess.
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Right, what can I say...

I enjoyed the game quite a lot, though I did expect more... AB-like stuff happening. When "Vote Value" was first announced, I was unbelievably excited for really tense VLR-like situations, but it turns out there was only one and, while a direct "who dies" vote kinda works, it basically takes the whole game from 0 (for those who didn't have redemption rooms) to 180 really quick.

The puzzles (at least, the ones I've seen) were really, really nice. I think you mentioned taking most or all of them from a puzzle book -- you've picked a good puzzle book. I'd like to know which one it was. ;)

I agree about there being a lot of formalities that didn't seem necessary. The out-of-room stuff wasn't so bothersome to me, but the fact that, inside the room, you have to examine every single object in order to know what it hides, even things that you, honestly, should be able to see right upon entering the room... I mean, I got used to it pretty quickly, but I do think it wasn't always logical. The overall choice of puzzles, though, again, was pretty nice.

Without knowing Kachu's side, it's hard to say how much rigging the game against Pitch story-wise helped or hindered the experience on that side. Yeah, it's not exactly fair, but it does make sense in the story and it may have enhanced the tension, too... it's hard to say. But Kachu can speak on their own, so... we'll find this out, right? ;)

Story-wise, my main criticism would be the amount of things that just feel ad hoc or arbitrary. The amount of redemption rooms (I get that having this many phases would be painful, but still), Harmony's family's involvement, etc, there are things that just don't connect as well as you'd expect from ZE-like storytelling. Even the electric shocks for failing a puzzle didn't always make physical sense, unless the real source of the shock was the bracelet and not the actual object. Though, it all did add to the sense of "Zero died and left some stuff unexplained", which feels super plausible to me. But I suppose that's part of what the post-game thread is for, right?

I do like the idea of a petty, vengeful Zero, though, that's a good meta twist. ZE had grander reasons for all its Zeroes, but in a universe where Nonary Games are held time and time again, how realistic is it to expect that every single one of them would have grander reasons? It's a good Zero character and I enjoyed Jesse a lot. Fiona clearly having more good in her heart, yet being roped into this because of how much it hurt was a nice touch, too.

On the character side, THE MOM was, of course, my favorite, since Blinky reacted to all of my cues. Playing that out was epic. I liked everyone, generally, but I think post-reveal Pitch/Nigel (after we found out he was one of the bank robbers) has achieved one of the most consistent character voices among all of us... the ending, where he showcased he still had a sensible moral compass, despite participating in the bank robbery earlier, was just great. "I'm a bad guy, and even I think you're off your rocker, Jesse" was how it went down. I loved it. I also felt THE MOM had a very consistent character voice, too, but hey, I'm biased because of which character I played...

Myself, I'm afraid I may have overdone on narration in comparison to all the other players, and I'm also not sure how consistent Clyde's moods are. As inconvenient as "roleplay at the speed of chat" Discord stuff is (since you have to assemble all the players at once at the same time, and that's a major pain), one advantage that it has is that you're playing the character in real time. In a forum game like this one, where posts can be, sometimes, separated for days, it's more difficult to get a feel for how much time things take in-game. It was really fun to write Clyde's mental state, but I may have shifted it back and forth too quickly for it to be realistic.

(Also, be glad I didn't pick Beryllium as my code name. No one would want to spell that. Also-also: yeah, what were the other two anagrams?)

Overall, it was a heck of a time. Some mistakes were present, I suppose, but the positives way outweigh the negatives. The New Leaf Bank stuff all connected really, really nicely, with most characters genuinely having some kind of a relation to it and the underlying event feeding into Zero's motivations. Good game, Hanzo.
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Muzozavr wrote:
(Also, be glad I didn't pick Beryllium as my code name. No one would want to spell that.)


I told you, man, you should have just shortened it to Barry! Then it would have still been an actual name, and also it would have rhymed with his mom's codename! But you didn't, and now you will pay the price. grabs shovel BAD END - BURIED

Oh yeah speaking of nicknames, I wouldn't mind if they just weren't in the next game. There was a reason to have them here (Blaze would have been found out by Sin, for example), but I generally prefer when characters have enough degrees of separation that stuff like that isn't a huge deal. Some of the code names were fine this game, though a lot felt not very original and some of the betters ones were hard to figure out, but maybe I'm a negative Nancy. Sin was still the best codename though

I liked having a sorta small-scale event as the justification for the NG, but I guess I was hoping for a bit more twists? There wasn't really a lot to uncover about the individual characters, as most of them were exactly who they said they were except Pitch and Blaze. The robbery itself was also pretty simple, but I did like how it showed how a fairly average thing could change a lot of people's lives dramatically. I guess I was most disappointed by Zero and his friend. I didn't have a problem with Zero being a separate person (and I really liked his personality), but Jesse didn't have much meaning to anyone. I would have preferred if someone knew him personally, though that can be hard to pull off. Most people also guessed Fiona simply for having the least relevancy, though not having Peri and Son basically deconfirmed might have improved that. I think in the end the only reveals that really surprised were Pitch being the robber and everything about Blaze.

I agree about the pacing issues; it got pretty annoying especially during the leadup to meeting Zero. As a spectator it was probably worse for me. But that's already been discussed to death so whatever.

Overall I definitely enjoyed the game, and none of it's flaws beyond the pacing really hampered that enjoyment. I also liked all the characters, but I think it'd be difficult to rank them in an organized manner since they're all fairly average. Peri and Dee were great together but not that special when separated, which is fine since they never were anyway. Sin and Pitch were probably my favorites though; Virgo's up there somewhere too.
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Last edited by Planetbox on Sun May 26, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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I definitely would've liked if there was an actual choice to make in my redemption room, for instance only being able to save one person. Like, I had the choice to save or kill anyone I wanted. Why would I have killed Harmony's sister and mom, instead of just killing the dad?

Also yeah there only being redemption rooms for a handful of characters was meh. I feel everyone should've either been able to see the redemption room on a TV, or redrooms should've been done in pairs.
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Oh yeah, I agree with Planetbox, Sin is a great code name. It's not just the coolest code name in this game, but might be the coolest NG code name ever. Kudos to Joker on that one.
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Considering that I was learning the ropes of being a GM... Yeah, I could have done more with the formalities. One way, as you guys said, was to make a GM saying everyone did that (getting onto the elevator, trying the Redemption Room door, etc.). It didn't occur to me until after the game, but oh well.

Yeah, about the puzzle penalty... In the Garden, when Peri got shocked for inputting the wrong answer to a puzzle, Virgo was holding the puzzle box. So, she could have got shocked along with Peri, but I felt that would be unfair to have someone penalized for not even trying the puzzle while the person trying the puzzle got penalized. (Of course, you can get penalized for failing to solve a puzzle in NG4. But it was only a gimmick story-wise.). So, yeah, the source of the shock would be the bracelet.

Pitch's Redemption Room.... I actually turned it into a coin toss. Where it works like this:

Pull the trigger
Head = Bullet
Tails = Click

Spin the cylinder, then pull the trigger
Head = Click
Tail = Bullet

So, when Pitch decided to spin the cylinder and pull the trigger, I flipped the coin and it landed on... tail. Imagine my surprise when that happened. I wanted to avoid have this happen and have Pitch get a click, but alas, I felt that it would be weird, so I stuck with what I originally planned. Imo, it'd work better if this was a RNG instead of the coin toss. Perhaps we'd get to know Diego a little more if Pitch got a 'click' on his first attempt. But, well, we all know what happened.

Speaking of Redemption Rooms, I agree with what you guys were saying about them. To be more fair, I felt that if I did pairs, it'd be unfair to the lone player who didn't get a Redemption Room. Speaking of which, I'd like to bring up the talk that Muzo and I have the other day on Discord; that the Redemption Rooms were inspired by the 'Exit/Corners' game. Let's be honest here, at the time that I was designing the Redemption Rooms, I didn't know there was a game with a similar idea. So, you could indeed agree that I unknowingly tapped into that idea. I didn't even know that until Muzo brought it up.

And, let's not forget the anagrams. They pretty much have to do with justice. Anyway, here's the answers to the anagrams that you couldn't solve.

Quote:
"Tin clone novelists will rubs jet ice dive belt due."

INNOCENT LIVES LOST, BUT JUSTICE WILL BE DELIVERED

Quote:
“Interviewers fetch foam emblem.”

REMEMBER THE VICTIMS OF NEW LEAF

Yeah, I left a clue to one of the words in this anagram; when Zero asked the players if it really mattered if they remember what the weather was like when they were kidnapped. I'm surprised that no one was able to pick up on the clue, I literally bolded the word 'remember' to try to clue you into that.

Quote:
“If whodunits frozen her love girl shoe reviews...”

ZERO WILL NEVER FORGIVES THOSE WHO RUINED HIS LIFE
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Alright first thing's first, huge congrats on running and finishing this game! I had a pretty great time playing Pitch, and I'm super glad to see lots of people ended up liking him.

I'm not gonna go into huge detail parroting what everybody else already said. Pacing issues, yeah we've been over that. Redemption rooms being in pairs would've been neat, of course the odd person out would've been weird, but something to think about,

Sin was the best codename, yeah. I'm not against them no longer being used in other games but here Sin would've known who Blaze and Pitch were right away, and to be honest if there weren't code names I'd probably have had Pitch give a fake name instead to get around that.

The elephant in the room, for me, at least, was how the whole game was more or less rigged against Nigel/Pitch from the start. Now I'm not really an expert on this topic, but I think it's just a tad ridiculous that Psi was able to place Pitch's voice from that one day, five years later. Though I might be misguided and stuff like that is totally possible and happens all the time, it made it really difficult for me to hide the fact that Pitch was one of the robbers. I'm not sure what I could've done if Psi was just going to remember naturally, and tell somebody about it. Apparently the dart gun was poisonous too, so I feel like Psi had to have been pretty damn sure Pitch was the robber, so I'm not sure if I could've done anything to make her think otherwise. And if she was going to remember it on a timer, the only thing I could've done (at least that I could think of) was kill her before she could tell anybody. Which, on one hand, I like how hopeless and difficult the situation is from a story standpoint, but as a player trying to reach his win conditions it seemed almost impossible when looking back. I couldn't even really go in a different room than her, because of how the voting worked out.

I'm by far not an expert on math, but to my knowledge, there was a 1/64 chance that both Diego and Pitch would live through that Redemption room. Like before, I like how the game is rigged against Pitch given what Zero's motives are. I guess the win condition only said to Find Diego, but there being a reasonable chance for him to actually live would've been nice. Though at least I'm glad Diego was shot instead of Pitch, because as a player, just dying to a coin flip that I couldn't actually shift into my favour would've felt really unfair. Especially when I didn't even know it was rigged, and thought it was a 1/6 chance. Because I wouldn't really be able to prevent that, I'd just have to hope on a coinflip. But it wouldn't have been just once, I would've had to lucked out on three coinflips in a row, that's even if Pitch didn't shoot Diego first. It feels like it was impossible for both Pitch and Diego to live, and I get that that's the point, but it feels like a no win situation, and those aren't very fun to play.

Now at the end, I know it was totally possible for Pitch to live if one of the other players didn't vote for him. I'm still upset that it was totally rigged, but I had a reasonable chance to make it out of that, and I only died because of another player's direct actions instead of having no control, so that's much less of an issue for me. (Also if Pitch didn't kill Diego, then Zero would've one the vote because his vote count would've been higher.) I also get that at the end, the electric shock was supposed to kill you instantly, but it would've been kinda nice to have some sort of last words. I dunno it's not that big of a deal.

Basically, to summarize, I had a really great time playing Pitch, and I enjoy how the whole game was rigged against him from a story perspective. But being put into those tricky situations that seem possible to get out of with some sort of action, and maybe a little bit of luck, but were actually heavily stacked against me, giving me little chance to actually end up winning the game, hurt my enjoyment quite a bit. I'm really glad everyone else had a great time playing too, though. And again, I had a real blast, but as a player being forced to lose because the game is rigged against you isn't so fun.

I hope those text walls made any sort of sense and I didn't end up using some weird word choices.
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Okay wow PB I spent like 2 years waiting to use 'Psi' as a codename because I was SO PROUD OF IT and this is how you repay me???? As revenge you're officially CANCELLED FROM F6

But yeah I'm fine with there being no codenames or whatever. Having it be like NG7 where you can give your character their own name is cool. I was happy with mine though since my surname was JACKSON

Speaking on the puzzle rooms personally, I liked them. A few were a bit too simple though and maybe could've been fleshed out more but they served their purpose well enough. I think they sort of ran out on interesting stuff to find though. The Doctor's Office had some pretty cool stuff in it, then the Nursery had this weird bear to symbolise Jesse's lost son. A bit underwhelming but yeah.

The puzzles themselves were fine though, I struggled with them sometimes but I ended up solving them in the end. I think I might have even been one of the contenders for most puzzles solved this time which amazes me. The one with the speed bumps was a bit lame but other than that I liked them, barring the occasional riddle which had a really crazy solution. Also personally I disagree with Muzo on how you had to examine everything in a room, usually it lends itself to garnering more cool info and other stuff for yourself. Plus the rooms itself would be pretty short otherwise.

I think my least favourite thing about the rooms themselves were how they tied into the game. They always felt weirdly arbitrary and didn't really feel cohesive or tie in together nicely over the game. The fact that the location of the game itself was just some weird random building in the middle of nowhere which basically means nothing to the players. Personally I think this was a mistake since settings are a cool thing about NGs which can really change a lot and can even be a good part of the story, so the fact that the locations this game felt randomly placed was a bit of a bummer to me.

And yeah speaking on the story overall I wasn't exactly a fan. I wasn't against the idea of a smaller scale NG but it was pretty simple and unsurprising for the most part? I liked the robbery plot enough but it definitely didn't feel enough to carry a whole game. I think there definitely could have been a lot more character subplots that could have been fleshed out for a more engaging experience. Like instead of relegating Diego/Psi's ex/Virgo's stepdad to redemption rooms they could have maybe been actual players instead to vary up the cast dynamic and flesh out the story more in general.

Maybe characters could have been more connected than that. Like maybe if Psi's ex was a bank robber, or if Sin was Peri's husband/the detective who framed Blaze? Just spitballing here but yeah character relationships weren't particularly interesting and thanks to the early reveals it wasn't hard to figure out who was the assistant (plus I kind of figured Pitch was off from the beginning). I think Blaze's subplot was definitely unique on its own but it had basically zero relevance to anything and got resolved immediately.

I also wasn't a fan of Jesse at all particularly. Not only did he not mean squat to any of us but his motive seemed downright petty. I could understand his vendetta against Pitch but he didn't really seem justified at all in getting the others involved. It didn't really seem well thought out and the fact that he was in it for revenge was even worse, since it isn't anything new or interesting at all (it's been done before in about 3 other NGs at this point) but it also wasn't particularly deep or fleshed out. Same with Fiona's motives as well, really.

Oh also I liked how there was a book on Morphogenetics in one room and it turned out to be utterly irrevelant to the game other than like one part in Sin's redemption room.

Quote:
Pitch's Redemption Room.... I actually turned it into a coin toss. Where it works like this:

Pull the trigger
Head = Bullet
Tails = Click

Spin the cylinder, then pull the trigger
Head = Click
Tail = Bullet

So, when Pitch decided to spin the cylinder and pull the trigger, I flipped the coin and it landed on... tail. Imagine my surprise when that happened. I wanted to avoid have this happen and have Pitch get a click, but alas, I felt that it would be weird, so I stuck with what I originally planned. Imo, it'd work better if this was a RNG instead of the coin toss. Perhaps we'd get to know Diego a little more if Pitch got a 'click' on his first attempt. But, well, we all know what happened.


I... don't really get this. So whether you would have spun the cylinder or not, you still would've tossed the coin? Also, isn't that just RNG anyway? And since Pitch's trial was rigged against him, wouldn't Diego surviving mean that Pitch would have to die instead? It's not as though we would have gotten to know him more anyway since he was a redemption room guy.

Quote:
Speaking of Redemption Rooms, I agree with what you guys were saying about them. To be more fair, I felt that if I did pairs, it'd be unfair to the lone player who didn't get a Redemption Room.


To be fair 8 players out of 9 getting a room would be much better than 4 :p You could maybe have it play into the story too, with maybe Zero's assistant not getting a redemption room or maybe even the final vote acting as the redemption room in some way.

Also in response to what Kachu said, I don't think it's really unreasonable for Psi to have remembered Pitch's voice given how much the incident traumatised her as a person. But yeah, I agree with the rest of your points. It didn't really seem fun or fair from your perspective to have the game basically be weighed against you from the start, plus with me figuring out your true identity I would've figured it out fast and eliminated you quick. Also I think Psi realising you were the robber was triggered by Blaze or Jupiter suggesting it to me for some reason and not just me trying to place his voice there? So that was weird.
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Yeah it kind of sucks how unbalanced the game was for Pitch, even if it makes sense storywise, it's not really fun for players to be stuck in no-win situations like that.

Most of what I was going to say about the game has been said already so I'll just say my two major critiques are that for the most part the game felt very low-stakes, and that Zero himself felt pretty inconsistent.

It might be because I was just spectating but I never got any sense of danger during the game; the voting system actively discouraged characters from killing each other, failing puzzles just knocked someone unconscious for a short time rather than kill them or even cost them points, etc. Virgo's redemption room didn't reward her in any way for choosing to kill someone and barely punished her for it (she lost half a point towards her voting weight, so what, it's not like anyone was actually going to spend their votes to kill her anyway). Psi's room had the exact same problem. Even the final vote didn't seem all that tense since it was pretty clear most anyone who voted was going to pick Zero.

As far as Zero himself, his attitude and motivations felt all over the place. Like, I guess he was so traumatized by the robbery and its aftermath that he put the whole Nonary Game together specifically to punish Pitch, but then he'd go and do things like laugh at the other players when they got shocked, call them silly nicknames, and act like he didn't care about the game at all with his comments about going to lie down or read a book. It was almost like he was being tsundere about his own game and just made him feel weird and nonthreatening. I also wasn't a fan of the votes at the end being rigged, especially when Zero had previously disclosed all the vote values (so essentially the GM was just blatantly lying). Why would Zero even bother to rig the vote, anyway? The whole point of the game seemed to be showing the other players what a scumbag Pitch was and trying to get them to punish him, so in Zero's mind, he shouldn't have needed to give his votes extra weight since he thought he was doing the right thing (unless I'm just completely misunderstanding Zero's motives, in which case :shrug: ).

To keep this from sounding too negative, I will say the backstory with the robbery and having the players connected to that was neat and apparently the puzzles were good from what I've heard (I didn't check them myself, didn't have the time really).

As a final thought, I'll say I agree with Muzo and the others about a lot of things feeling arbitrary. It felt like a number of things in the game were just there because they felt Zero Escape/Nonary Game-ish, rather than being there because they helped the game. To a degree I guess that's okay, but I'd like to encourage future GMs to think carefully about adding elements like that and consider what doing so would change or improve in their game.
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Alright so I'll give my thoughts as well. Definitely a big congrats to Hanzo for pulling this together successfully and the others for sticking with it, despite some inactivity issues here and there. Running a game isn't easy and spending the time to participate is no light commitment either.

I'll admit my interest in this one was a bit more passive, but I was following it. I'd usually let the game sit for days at a time and then catch up on some posts. Towards the end of the game even this strategy didn't help much pacing-wise because I'd be catching up on like... 10 posts at a time. I also generally didn't read the rooms because I figured the cast would share the info anyway so maybe that colored my impression of things a bit.

Overall, I thought the cast was kind of weak and that's probably my biggest problem. The story was good for what it was. Not great, not bad. I agree that it could've used a few more twists but to be quite honest I don't mind the idea of a short NG with a small and personal story like this one (but when I say "short", I mean even shorter than this one). If the characters were stronger then I really don't think the lack of a bigger story would've mattered. Personally I would've added another layer to it like some conspiracy behind the bank robbery/the motive for robbing the place being more than just some robbers getting money... but whatever.

But yeah anyway, the cast. I have so little to say about any of them. There were a lot of activity issues in general but overall a lot of people just felt kind of there. Sin was my favorite character upon introduction. Amazing codename like others have said and also a really interesting design. He captures your interest immediately about what this insidious and mysterious character could be, but there's also an interesting possibility that he could be a bit more than that. But then he ends up being kind of a normal guy. Now, I don't mind that he is a nice guy and it's definitely not uncommon to have expectations subverted like that in ZE, but I was still hoping there was some larger mystery or complicated history with him. I couldn't help but feel disappointed. I'm not even dissing Salem or anything because Sin still ended up as one of my favorites, it's more just an example of the game setting up something interesting and playing it kind of straight. Also as a sidenote there was too much swearing in this game, not that I'm one to talk.

I don't mind Zero being petty or setting things up against Pitch. I get what people are saying about unfairness but if I were a player in the game, even knowing what I know now, Pitch is probably the character I'd want to play. It just seemed like he had the most going on. But I guess I don't care about winning as much as being a cool character. It definitely didn't make much sense that the other people needed to be involved at all but it's always a stretch to think of a motive for a death game anyway so I didn't mind.

But by far my biggest disappointment with the cast/game/story is that Zero was just some other guy. Yeah, I know the game "made up for it" by having the assistant be among the cast but Deux never had much of a presence and ended up feeling like the worst possible choice for that twist and it was just so unsatisfying. Zero and the assistant should've been in the cast. Any closed circle mystery should have the "killer" among the cast. Period. And yeah, I know that's just my opinion. I get that people might appreciate the game doing something different, or subverting expectations, but I really do think that the mystery and cast just fundamentally improves if Zero is one of the characters we know about for the whole game. It's much more rewarding.

That's about all I have to say for now. I agree with some of the other thoughts that the gameplay could be stronger. Redemption Rooms should've been public and maybe involved the cast we know. It felt a little awkward to have so many side characters that weren't actually played by anyone but the GM, but I'm more just nitpicking. I'll also throw in that I feel pretty done with codenames too. I definitely like the NG7 system the best (most of the cast uses their real names, but the players still get to choose them) but in general I just want the number-system to be gone. A codename can be really cool and can be based off of appearance/profession/etc but the number system just restricts it way too much and we get names that are either similar to other games or just kind of bland. Also sorry SC but Psi is kind of meh as a name imo.
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Great game, everyone!

Most of the issues I had are already said here, but I do have some things to say about Zero. Jesse's motives, like everyone has said, felt extremely petty. He wasn't holding the Nonary Game to save anyone in particular or do some sort of good in an ends-justify-the-means way, he just wanted Pitch to die. That really bugged me. It made it hard for me to sympathize with him, even after learning how much he lost because of the bank robbery. The entire confrontation with him at the end felt less like "I'm talking with the man that kidnapped us for reasons that aren't entirely evil" and more like "I'm arguing with someone who won't realize they're in the wrong no matter how much I tell them and they keep ignoring my points just to feel sorry for themself."

Don't get me wrong, I feel like a petty Zero could work, just not as the main Zero of the game. A petty Zero would probably be better if he was like Ace was in 999 (someone who held a NG earlier now put into another NG by a different Zero with different motives).

I'll agree that this overall did feel more like a vanilla NG, but I think that made me like it more. After burnout from F5 and school among other things, a basic game with no big tricks and gimmicks felt very relieving to me.

My two cents on the nickname bit is...I feel like NG7's style is what we should use in future games. Choosing nicknames is only really fun because we're choosing a name for a pre-made character. For me at least, it helps me grow attached to them. So suddenly switching to using the real, already-chosen-by-GM name feels unnatural after I've spent so much of the game referring to them by their code name. With Peri, I felt really bummed out once Zero revealed her name because I realized I had to start going by that, and it just didn't feel right to me. Contrast with Violet from NG7, who went by her (mostly) real name all game long, so I never felt that.

Overall, it was a pretty fun game. I enjoyed playing Peri and I'd go so far as to say she's one of my favorites that I've played before. I didn't have any issues with the cast, and I liked pretty much everyone. Special shoutout to Muzozavr as Clyde for being both Sylvia's son and a really great character all around.

While I am skipping on F6, I'll definitely join NG9 whenever that rolls around!
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Southern Corn wrote:
Okay wow PB I spent like 2 years waiting to use 'Psi' as a codename because I was SO PROUD OF IT and this is how you repay me???? As revenge you're officially CANCELLED FROM F6


I know you're joking but I'll respond anyway. My only real issue with Psi is that we've had Greek letter names before. It's certainly one of the better ones in this game though, especially since the 3 part is from the shape and now just "it's the third letter!!" or something. rip me in F6 though
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Oh and another small comment to throw in but it felt like the stuff people were restricted from talking about was kind of unnecessary. For future GMs, if you don't want a character to reveal important information, make it a secret. Or something that can hurt them. But expecting people to be quiet about something they have no reason to be quiet about (like a robbery that happened in their past) is kinda iffy. In general you should expect that players are going to be talking and will reveal connections with each other sooner than you expect, so just make sure that whatever they have can only add intrigue and wouldn't be game-breaking.
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*cracks mighty Blaze knuckles* Alright let's do this. Time to murder Soco for heavy dissing my NG4 as inferior to this one.

Congrats Hanzo on running your first Nonary Game! These things are nightmares to pull together in terms of story, player activity, puzzles and effort and I had a good time here with it. I will say that while I prefer NG7's story, I still stand by that I prefer the more 'game' based styles as opposed to the strict 'narrative path' style used in that one. It allows for player choice and agency and the possibility of varying things up. I just don't think this game offered many opportunities for that as there was little need for anyone to betray each other. Most of the cast at the end had nothing against each other and there was only one real villain. We didn't really need to compete for resources anyway because the voting system allowed us to vote for obvious villains.

With regards to searching the rooms I don't mind finding undiscovered stuff as we go. It's probably more natural too but you gotta describe that stuff. We lost time in the kitchen room because we hadn't searched for a drawer in the counter which had never been described in the first place. As the GM you gotta be our eyes and ears.

I thought Zero's motivations were unusual too. I didn't mind Zero being petty so much (though I think I personally prefer grander scale stories) but somethings about it felt like a letdown. I understand that GM's don't need to have planned for every eventuality on the fly and improvise but not having a legitimate reason for everyone to be involved from the get go felt really really off. It really made the mystery a nightmare for me because I couldn't imagine a reasonable explanation for players to be involved. Seeing how Redemption Rooms were basically random choices for players and not having an explanation as to why those players were chosen was weird and the one made for Peri felt last-minute and unusual as a weird way to say "Oh but hey Zero bailed you out." I think it stands that if the goal was simply to torture Pitch (and indeed the system was going to be so screwed against them anyway) then involving the other players doesn't make much sense especially from a "compassionate" Zero and it would have made more sense just to kill him with all the power they had over them.

Blaze's role in the story felt a bit unusual at first but it was alright. Being the outsider wasn't bad but Zero confirming that I was an outsider and therefore not a threat was probably a mistake. Would have left a lot more intrigue into the matter and left Blaze as suspicious considering he would seem wholly unconnected to the events of the past. Clearing so many players off the bat really narrowed down the difficulty on pinpointing the assistant. I mean I get you didn't expect people to reveal so much so early but there was incentive for them to do so and no reason not to so it was a natural action for the players to take. The way it went at times the players were like 2 steps ahead of the mystery. In the Nursery, I was solving puzzles and finding items that were meant to clue in on the mystery but at this point were just telling us things we already knew. Other players didn't really seem like an actual threat though as there wasn't any real PvP elements other than the possibility of open-killing someone. I do wonder what Zero and Fiona would have done if Pitch was already dead by that point.

Favourite Character: Sin was a cool dude. Real Spike Siegal vibes from him.

Favourite Puzzle: While the actual answer for the Seed puzzle was pretty obscure and hard to guess, I liked how you permitted my close enough answer. That's good DM-ing!
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Nah NG4 is great too Pierre, I just never participated in it so I just don't have the same level of entertainment reading through it as I do with playing through these

Also thanks guys for proving I'm just as bad with choosing names as I was two years ago :larry: :larry: :larry:

I liked the cast overall but yeah I'm not super huge on them. I think most of the players played their characters well enough but their roles in the story weren't really ingrained that well. They were mostly average and straightforward. Also this reminded me I've talked about my codename more than my own character so I guess I'll talk about that now.

Theresa/Psi wasn't a particularly interesting or even a memorable character to most people, no doubt, but I did actually enjoy playing her, maybe more than some of my more recent characters. I thought it was pretty interesting to play a more vanilla character and I had a lot of fun with her. She had a very basic character arc but I thought it worked well enough in the context of the game so that was good.

Generally a lot of my enjoyment from this game came from the former half, mainly because I wasn't really aware of how simple the story actually was. Trying to figure out the bank robber/assistant was fun enough and the Doctor's Office was a very well paced puzzle room in general. I think the 'back to basics' part of the game was sort of a nice contrast to NG7 and I did like it, albeit not as much as NG5 but it's not unexpected. Also I really liked the section where everyone revealed a glimpse of their backstory right before the first set of puzzle rooms, that was genuinely intriguing.

Trying to catch Pitch especially was my favourite part of the game. It felt very intense once I figured out who he was and I was just trying to plot how to get him. Conspiring with Jupiter and Blaze about how it was pretty exciting and fun, I'll admit. Even the tiny details like voting to be in the same room as him and what weapons to use I'd got into my head. I somehow managed to get a poison dart gun as well as a syringe in addition to the pepperspray I had with me at the start of the game so basically I was a freakin' weapons lord. I find it even funnier in retrospect because I was busy freaking out over whether Pitch had a knife with him or something while in reality Blaze had one he could have casually used from the start. It was so one sided, Still, even though my plan to poison Pitch failed, I managed to play it off well enough and I still managed to pepperspray him so that's a plus. Those were definitely the highlights of the game for me.

Anyway, a couple other things:

Best Puzzle: Definitely one of the ones in the workshop. I think I like the simplicity and fun of the 123 puzzle and the challenge the 6 puzzle thing provided, but the final puzzle where you had to make a single huge link thing was my favourite because it had a nice combination of both those puzzles while still being super satisfying to solve on my own.

Best Riddle: The Pill puzzle in the Doctor's Office. It's the only riddle I correctly answered I think (other than that weird one which was just addition) but also I knew the riddle already so

Best Music Link: There were like four of these in the whole game but I liked the one for Zero's room. Mainly because I chose it but it also fit the mood way better than the lame ones you guys gave just saying
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Yeah taking the opportunity to conspire with Jupiter and Psi was great. I was a little anxious when you suggested a voting plan against what I thought the agreed goal was but it worked out.

I originally wanted to hold the knife to his back the second we entered the room since by that point he'd already fallen into the trap of the voting but it didn't go through so I was glad to see you could handle it yourself.
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While we're still talking, I'd like to list out my favorite moments in NG8.

Favorite NG8 Moments
- Penalizing Peri for submitting a incorrect answer to the puzzle in the Garden, hence why this is my 'SO BE IT' moment. Also the first time someone screwed up on a puzzle in NG8.
- Literally every Dee/Peri moment. That's how you see the true relationship between a mother and her son!
- Jupiter finding a solution better than the one Zero intended! I was shocked when I checked his answer. I didn't want to be unfair to him, so I have no choice but accept his answer. Lesson learned: Always check your handmade puzzles to prevent any possible loopholes!
- Pitch being leveled-headed during the confrontation with Zero.
- The argument between Blaze and Zero over the bridge puzzle. Zero literally have to talk Blaze through to finding the correct solution.
- The epic confrontation in the Nursery.

Yeah, Pierre, your answer to the seed puzzle was pretty close to the answer I was aiming for. Still, the answer that I explained and your answer are both valid. Which is the problem with lateral-thinking puzzles, as there may be more than one answer depending on how you look at the puzzle.
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I know I'm late but I never know what to say in these post game threads

I don't have much to say that hasn't been said already, but I'd like to thank Hanzo for running this game. It was a lot of fun being in an NG and I really enjoyed being a part of it.

Next I'd like to talk about Pierre/Sin. I'm a bit surprised how well-received he was. I had a lot of fun playing him, and I'm glad everyone else seemed to enjoy him as well. I'm glad people liked his codename too. I originally felt it was a bit edgy, but in the end I'm glad I went with that and not one of the other codenames I came up with. Thank you all for the positive comments and stuff, I really appreciate it.

And that's it I guess. Sorry for not posting in here sooner.
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