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Questions on T&T... (MAJOR SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I searched around and couldn't find anything that answered these, so if these questions have already been answered then I apologize.

I noticed in the game that Dahlia and Iris both stated multiple times that Iris betrayed Dahlia, during the whole Dusky Bridge episode: apparently Iris helped plan the mission and she chickened out and ran away at the last moment. What I want to know is what their original plan would have been - obviously it didn't involve Dahlia jumping off a bridge. Were the twins intending to betray both Valerie and Terry by splitting the diamond between the two of them?

Also, it really confused me when Iris said that she posed to be Dahlia for a couple of months in university - surely Bikini would have noticed her absence? In any case, I assume she knew about as much as the wider world as Pearl did at the time: how on earth would she have survived in university?
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Last edited by Midnight Jasper on Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Questions on T&T... (MAJOR SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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The second one has been on my mind for quite a while now... :yuusaku:
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Re: Questions on T&T... (MAJOR SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I imagine Bikini authorised her absence - and as for technology, they have access to a Snowmobile and Bikini herself seemed annoyed that Phoenix had forgotten his Cellphone...methinks that they aren't as backwater as they'd have you believe. We certainly didn't see their personal quarters, so there's no reason to assume that they don't at least have some basic equipment.

Also - My interpretation of Dahlia's plan is that she fooled Terry into doing something for her along with her sister because he was the simpleton Boyfriend - Iris would have, I imagine, followed mostly on principle because she's the loyal twin. Both of them were easy enough to manipulate, it seems, so I doubt her plan was anything any more complex than just 'Hey, you two...I have something we can do to really grind dads gears!'
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Re: Questions on T&T... (MAJOR SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Methinks that Dahlia had already known her sister would back out... Iris isn't the bravest of characters, I could have predicted that.

I could have sworn that Iris didn't even join the temple until after the case involving Phoenix.
I thought the "sins" she had to repent for were hiding her sister's guilt and trying to get the bottle evidence back.

So, answers (though I cannot guarantee 100% accuracy)

1. Dahlia planned the entire crime without Iris- She knew Iris would wimp out anyway.
2. Iris never joined the Temple until after the incident at Ivy University.
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OokamiZeta wrote:
Methinks that Dahlia had already known her sister would back out... Iris isn't the bravest of characters, I could have predicted that.

I could have sworn that Iris didn't even join the temple until after the case involving Phoenix.
I thought the "sins" she had to repent for were hiding her sister's guilt and trying to get the bottle evidence back.

So, answers (though I cannot guarantee 100% accuracy)

1. Dahlia planned the entire crime without Iris- She knew Iris would wimp out anyway.
2. Iris never joined the Temple until after the incident at Ivy University.


Iris was left at the temple as a child. Dahlia herself stated that she convinced her father to leave her twin there.
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Re: Questions on T&T... (MAJOR SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Quote:
1. Dahlia planned the entire crime without Iris- She knew Iris would wimp out anyway.


I can sort of see that happening, but I don't think that even Dahlia would make a plan that involved her jumping off a bridge.
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Re: Questions on T&T... (MAJOR SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Wasn't it determined by Mia/Armando that she was confident enough in her own swimming ability to handle the current?
Nobody would deliberately jump into a river on purpose WITHOUT considering their own ability against the speed of the tide...even in teh AA World.

She jumped - like it or not, her betraying Terry at the last moment and jumping was clearly part of HER plan - if not the plan she discussed with Terry and Iris.
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It's hard to tell what the original plan was, but I have the feeling that it involved Terry not getting arrested. I remember Iris says something about how Dahlia wasn't so bad originally, one crime just spiraled into another. So, I'm guessing Dahlia didn't originally plan on betraying Terry, but Iris screwed up the plan. I think this is why Iris feels so guilty and responsible for her sister.
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I doubt it was really Iris's fault the plan went that way - Terry got shot in the arm purposefully, which semi suggests that they definately intended on screwing him over since you don't handicap somebody you involve with a plan such as that on purpose UNLESS you plan on them taking the rap for it.

Dahlia doesn't care about the welfare of many others other than herself - Terry going to jail for something she did would hardly keep her awake at night.

As far as the game goes, Iris supposedly felt guilty PURELY for not getting the jewel back quickly and stopping her from going as far as she did. Beyond that, her involvement in the Diamond heist is not even mentioned, so there's not really any way to declare she had any part in it other than speculated guesses.

I'm aware I mentioned Iris before - my explanation for that is I was too caught up in the speculations going on...having replayed 3-4 today, and by remembering what I know of 3-5, I've remembered that Iris never clearly stated personal involvement in this particular case whatsoever - it was Valerie who managed to get the ransom from their father, not Iris...therefore there was no need to involve her at any stage beyond that.

Dahlia: Originated the plan, organised the kidnapping, convinced Terry to take part.
Terry: 'Fake' villain of the piece and unknowing patsy for the police to take in
Valerie: Inside woman on part of Dahlia - obtained the diamond and organised for Terry's arrest
Iris: ...I got nothing.
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Re: Questions on T&T... (MAJOR SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Sebastian Stark wrote:
I doubt it was really Iris's fault the plan went that way - Terry got shot in the arm purposefully, which semi suggests that they definately intended on screwing him over since you don't handicap somebody you involve with a plan such as that on purpose UNLESS you plan on them taking the rap for it.

hmmm... well, I think they planned to do whatever they needed to do to go through with the plan. Also, pinning the crime on Terry could have been a back up plan. It's just that I think it is implied that SOMETHING went wrong with the plan. This is the only part of the plan that I think could have went wrong.

Quote:
Dahlia doesn't care about the welfare of many others other than herself - Terry going to jail for something she did would hardly keep her awake at night.

We don't know if Dahlia was always as evil as she is now.

Quote:
As far as the game goes, Iris supposedly felt guilty PURELY for not getting the jewel back quickly and stopping her from going as far as she did. Beyond that, her involvement in the Diamond heist is not even mentioned, so there's not really any way to declare she had any part in it other than speculated guesses,
I'm aware I mentioned Iris before - my explanation for that is I was too caught up in the speculations going on...having replayed 3-4 today, and by remembering what I know of 3-5, I've remembered that Iris never clearly stated personal involvement in this particular case whatsoever - it was Valerie who managed to get the ransom from their father, not Iris...therefore there was no need to involve her at any stage beyond that.


:ayame: It was no coincidence that Eagle Mountain is where the exchange was to take place.
:ayame: After all, I... I helped plan the whole thing.
:ack: What!?
:ayame: But I got so scared, I ran away.

Iris clearly had some part in the plan. I have no idea what it was, but she felt very guilty for betraying Dahlia. Therefore, her part in the plan must have had some importance.
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Quote:
hmmm... well, I think they planned to do whatever they needed to do to go through with the plan. Also, pinning the crime on Terry could have been a back up plan. It's just that I think it is implied that SOMETHING went wrong with the plan. This is the only part of the plan that I think could have went wrong.


Nope - nothing, from what I see in the case, is implied to 'have gone wrong' at all in the original heist:
The diamond was brought, as planned, Dahlia escapes with the Diamond owing to a probable collaboration with her own sister Valerie, and then Terry was double crossed and arrested. Looks pretty Plain and simple.

There was no evidence whatsoever that anything else took place...essentially, the whole plan was brought about by Dahlia's scheming. She betrayed Valerie, who clearly knew she'd been betrayed through her going to the bridge in the first place - but Terry was always meant to be Dahlia's fallguy, and THAT part played out well.

Before you even suggest again that we don't know how 'evil' she was beforehand, may I remind you that she may just be a disaassociative psychopath from an early age because of all the wretchedness that had taken place in her life. Basically, the story only really seems to direct you more to the fact that she IS evil when we first hear the story, and that you aren't meant to think all that much into it since it collapses under the weight of it's own unelaborated history.

Dahlia's basically a 2-dimensional villain in essence to her background story, with no super-elaborated 'tragic' past other than her parents being selfish jerks that helped bring out her inner demon. Her life was simply started on a selfish path which she willingly walked down, and the result is what we had here.
Nothing else to blame here other than a skirted-round history and vague storyline writing.

Quote:
Iris clearly had some part in the plan. I have no idea what it was, but she felt very guilty for betraying Dahlia. Therefore, her part in the plan must have had some importance.


The only reason she would feel guilty here is that she was her sister and felt like she could have performed something to have ceased this plan from ever taking place. She implies she helped plan the whole thing, but in all honesty we don't know to what extend - she only 'helped plan', which means she had SOME input, but not an absolute say in what took place. In reality, Dahlia was playing for herself...this was the plan, and the 'False heist' was simply meant to be her coverup for Terry and Iris to get behind. Iris is a very naive and trusting girl and would probably have done anything her twin told her to do - in fact, I believe it was more likely Iris who helped her sister out from the river - but I feel that she had decided to not partake in the deeds themselves beforehand through the fact she was now also bound to the Hazakura temple as a nun, which probably had it's own particular code of morals.

In short, It's more a lack of depth to the past that gives us a really hazy overview of the reasonings behind these events - Dahlia, as 2-D as she is, was just being what she was brought up to be since she'd never known anything else...evil, cold and cruelly selfish to a point.
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