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Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title

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There is a significant lack of cuteness in this thread, so here is a pic filled with both Dahlia and Iris cuteness.
Image
Source here
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Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title
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*yoink* My picture now...

Off toipc: Mia, how do you find so many cute pics anyway?

On topic: Whatever your opinions on Dahlia are, she is as who you interpret her as. I interpret her as an anti-heroine sort of character instead of an outright bitch as some people here are inclined to think. I won't go into too much detail as this is about Dahlia being cute pics rather than a damn debate thread...
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AND NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE SAD IRIS AND DAHLIA PICTURE VARIETY HOUR 8D!!

Image
Sauce

WhiteElephant- Ruining your joy, one sadgasm at a time :redd:

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I considered weighing in on the debate, as my interpretation is somewhat in between the positions that are being argued... but I'd rather get the thread back to pretty pictures :will:

Spoiler: Saving space
Image

Broken source <-- I know that's where it's from, but it's a 404 error now. If the artist pops up elsewhere I'll link it.

Image

Source

Image

Source

Image

Source



Got 'em! Ha, I was editing as Mia posted, but I could find the source for the second one, so thanks!

Last edited by Miss Prince on Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title

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@Miss Prince. Here are the sources I have recorded for those pics
I'm pretty sure the first one is from Under Dog, but I lack the link for it. Sorry. :(
Second pic- http://syoppaieokiba.bake-neko.net/
Third pic- http://www.intergate.org/yachiko/gyakusai.html
Fourth pic- http://www.rocket.ne.jp/~kafuka/mm/top.htm
@Bruce- I spend too much time surfing Japanese fanart sites to procrastinate doing any actual work. :oops:
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Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title
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If I had any drawing talent whatsoever or I knew where to find some great fanart that hasn't been shown yet, I would...unfortunately, all I can do well is write, and that isn't exactly a good display of "cuteness" XD. Sorry, everyone.

Bruce Goldberg wrote:
On topic: Whatever your opinions on Dahlia are, she is as who you interpret her as. I interpret her as an anti-heroine sort of character instead of an outright bitch as some people here are inclined to think. I won't go into too much detail as this is about Dahlia being cute pics rather than a damn debate thread...


Hey, debates can be good things as long as they stay respectful, and I don't think our debate got out of hand, so it's all good :edgy:
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Mia_Fey wrote:
There is a significant lack of cuteness in this thread, so here is a pic filled with both Dahlia and Iris cuteness.
Spoiler:
Image

Source here

Oh, I don't have this one! Thank you Miaaa :shoe:

And yeah, I wouldn't object to hearing your anti-heroine theory, Bruce. This is getting to be sort of an all things Dahlia thread.
Image
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title

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If its getting to be an all things Dahlia thread... *Resisting urge to do a shameless plug* Crap! Didn't work. Please don't hate me for this. I wrote a story based on my interpretation of Dahlia's creation and the separation from Iris. If you want to read it, my fanfiction thread is here. All reviews left in my thread are appreciated and will make me very happy... I'm going to go feel very ashamed of myself now.
To make things slightly better, another pic!
Spoiler: Saving Space
Image

Source here
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Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title
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Hey, don't feel bad. Fanartists like to share their work, and we fanfiction writers should be able to do the same thing. IMO, a well-written fic is just as rewarding to read as a well-drawn picture is to look at. Each medium (no pun intended) has its own merits :notes:

After all, a picture may be worth a thousand words, but a thousand + word one-shot, for example, would also fill that bill nicely :P
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
And yeah, I wouldn't object to hearing your anti-heroine theory, Bruce. This is getting to be sort of an all things Dahlia thread.


Well, bear in mind, I'm totally crap at debates but I do write great essays which is rather ironic as debates is a more advanced and logical flow of multiple essays...

Anyway, let's get on with the show and please put up with the mountains of text I will have to type out...

Spoiler: Heaps of reference to all PW games so far and to hide the mountain of text...
The classic anti-hero is a character that usually exhibits characteristics that would be considered anti-heroic. But I would interpret that more than just anti-heroic actions. I suppose an anti-hero for me would exhibit the personae of a flawed (ie humane) and as well as exhibiting the characteristics that heroes would shun. Dahlia does fit some (if not all) characteristics of the anti-hero in three areas. These are her past, her actions and as well as her mentality/character through her actions.

For starters, we don't know about her past too well except for the facts that a) she's a daughter of Morgan, hence born in the Kurain Village and as well as b) a branch of the main family. Okay, let's look at the both of these points in more detail. The fact that she's a daughter of Morgan is of particular interest. Remember what Maya said about the Kurain village in GS2? She said that only the women have the ability of spirit channelling. Now consider what she says about the men, "They usually work out the village." Assuming more than often, this means that the women would have more power here than men. Plus Bikini did mention in GS3 that throughout the history of the Kurain family, internal strife is common due to the strict succession of the Masters. So that will an some influence on her character which I'll discuss later.

Let's look at the point b) in more detail. From the same game, Morgan tells us that the branch family cannot be Master of the Kurain School. We know that Dahlia's father married Morgan in the chance that she will become the Master of the Kurain School. Of course, this is brought up by Bikini in GS3 when she said whoever is Master would yield a lot of power and influence due to the various links to other sources. Now, linking that to Dahlia's father, obviously he wanted to get a share of that power as did Morgan. Looking in this, we find that possibly Morgan and Dahlia's father didn't share that same family bond. Both of them only did it for the power. Obviously when Misty took the mantle of Master, that did shatter all conception of power. Dahlia's father is possibly angered with the loss of having a share in power and takes Dahlia and Iris with him. Let's look at this point. Dahlia grew up in a family that already has shaky foundations and possibly heard (given how badly both Morgan and Dahlia's father reacted) to the abuse that both put to the table. So that's one point in her decision to go against her father. Plus both were taken from their mother without any warning from what Bikini tells us. As a young child, the belief of a family (ie "If they love me, they wouldn't do this to me") would be shattered and the usual shock and hatred in believing a parent would begin.

Then Dahlia's father remarries (I assume rather quickly) so that puts further strain on Dahlia's relationship with her father. One, it means that what her father went through with Morgan means absolutely nothing to him and two, in relation to that, it means he doesn't care about his children as he see them as a failure to gain that power. I suppose Dahlia's step mother possibly tried to keep the image of a family together but that fails miserably I assume. Then another thing will set Dahlia on her anti-heroine path and that's when Iris was dropped off at Hazakura Temple. I don't know whether or not Dahlia had a say in it but for the greater picture, that puts off Dahlia from trusting adults again as Iris is seen as the sanity switch for her. Taking that away means that all links to her past life would be severed totally. I would also assume that Valerie would have trouble connecting to her due to her mistrust in any adults, particularly ones that have been married recently into the family because of this. From what I asked a child psychologist in this last night, the child would become moody, distrusting and possibly manipulative even. All which appear in Dahlia's real image in GS3's first case.

Let's move onto her actions since then and go to the incident on Dusky Bridge. It seems that this 'murder' was obviously planned well advanced in order to pull it off without any issue. At this point, I would like to point out that her attitude is still the same as up there. The entire stunt was pulled off successfully except for the point where Dahlia loses the diamond/sapphire that was suppose to be split up later. Okay, let's analyse this set of events. She is still suspicious and distrusting everyone around her. She manipulates Terry and Valerie into helping her with this plan. How could she manipulate her own sister? Easy, by promising to split the proceeds from the diamond. But Dahlia loses that diamond. Here, we can see another characteristic which is the usual common saying of 'I trust no-one but myself.' Since she doesn't trust her stepsister as seen above, I think she wanted to just gain the rewards at the expense of others such as when Terry is convicted of her murder and Valerie having nothing in the end. In the end, there is a weak loser and a strong loser but ladies and gentlemen, the winner is no-one. That's the sort of attitude most anti-heroes take. They only trust themselves and have a sort of tragic past about them. Which fits Dahlia all to well.

Let's fast forward to the trial of Terry for Valerie's death. As with all sibling rivalry, there always has to be a strong and a weak relationship here. Obviously, Dahlia sees Valerie as a threat to her as a) she knows about the scheme and b) is starting to distrust her sister. As with all problems, you need to isolate and destroy the weakest link before it compromise everything. So, we know that she sets up the murder with Terry again (I have no idea how gullible this guy is...) and it goes off without a hitch. I suppose she doesn't give a damn about authority from her past and from her actions, especially in that she doesn't even hesitate in participating in murder. Another point in being an anti-hero again. But she didn't count on Mia screwing her main plan in nearly convicting Terry as innocent and herself as the murderer. Add another point, anti-heroes never count on themselves being the shoes of the opposite of what they are. Dahlia was afraid of being caught so she takes into her own plans of not to get caught. The poisoning of Diego and nearly convicting Phoenix in GS3 because he was an accessory of her plan (she did give him that necklace which technically makes him an accessory to the crime) shows how far she is willing to go. But all that is wasted as she is convicted in the end and executed.

But that doesn't end there. Oh no, yeah? Well, anti-heroes also have another point which is that in defeat, they never forgive. As the saying goes, 'it is better to forget than to forgive'. GS3 Case 5 shows that and she actively co-operated with Morgan somehow. I dunno how this happens but I assume Morgan asked Pearl to channel Dahlia to confirm the plan. And we see the result from that in case 5. Just look at the last saying in which she would never forgive and that she will constantly make sure they will pay.

From all that, you can safely say that she's an anti-heroine rather than a downright evil bitch. Yes, some events do look like she did it without remorse but if you think about it, being an anti-hero is so much more fun :-P
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title
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I'm still more inclined to go with "tragic villian" than "anti-hero", but good read, Bruce.

Anyway, *raids DA*
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Awesome picture Fran 8D And yea, tragic villain is better. Anti-hero is a protagonist/good person that tends to be steered on the wrong path. They eventually find redemption for their actions though. Victor Frankenstein from the Frankenstein novel is an anti-hero for example.

Dahlia was not heroic in any way though, but her life has been tragic. Thus making her the Tragic Villain.

For reference:
Anti-Heros from PW:
:edgeworth:
:godot:
:juan:
:lana:

Tragic Villains from PW:
:chinami:
:uramidn:
:morgan:
:ini:
(I SEE A PATTERN FOR TRAGIC VILLAINS, NO?!~)

In others news: A DAHLIA PICTURE
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Seems all the tragic villains have overelaborate hairstyles and hats :P
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Ha, love that one.

Why is Juan an anti-hero?
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How is :uramidn: a "tragic villain"? She wasn't the one who poisoned Elg's coffee, she just helped Tigre fake the scene and shake down Armstrong because she was intimidated by him (by Tigre, not by Armstrong XD). She didn't actually do anything bad, people just bring preconceptions because she has a creepy laugh...
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Viola, intimidated by Tigre? She had feelings for him.
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Writer Awakened wrote:
How is :uramidn: a "tragic villain"? She wasn't the one who poisoned Elg's coffee, she just helped Tigre fake the scene and shake down Armstrong because she was intimidated by him (by Tigre, not by Armstrong XD). She didn't actually do anything bad, people just bring preconceptions because she has a creepy laugh...

Spoiler: Spoiler for 3-3
Yes but here's the whole thing. Why did she do that? She didn't have to.

Reason: She thought Tigre loved her. Not because of her connections with the mafia but just because he liked her as a person. Yet she knew all along, somewhere deep inside, that Tigre was being nice to her and 'loving her' because if he didn't her grandfather would kill him. Especially since he caused an accident worth a million dollars to Viola.

She's somewhat evil, yes. But she didn't even know Glen or had any previous connection with him. Tigre did though. She was involved and posed as Maggie because she thought it would make Tigre love her. Thus making her somewhat 'tragic'.


@Franzise:
Spoiler: Spoil for 2-5
Remember, Matt is the evil one. He dated Celeste before Juan, continued to have some kind of sick competition against Juan and ended up calling in Shelly to kill Juan. Juan was happy overall. He and Celeste were supposed to be married, but then his pride got in the way and he ended up breaking up his fiancée because of it. He might not be 'heroic' but he wasn't incredibly bad as Matt.


Of course we can debate Juan being an anti-hero (or even a hero to begin with) for eons and never find a conclusion :3 It's just my thoughts really.
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IN OTHER NEWS:

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At the end of 3-3, Viola says that she wanted to think that Tigre cared about her, but that she knew he really didn't. Why wouldn't she be intimidated by him? He's a pretty frightening guy.

WhiteElephant wrote:
Writer Awakened wrote:
How is :uramidn: a "tragic villain"? She wasn't the one who poisoned Elg's coffee, she just helped Tigre fake the scene and shake down Armstrong because she was intimidated by him (by Tigre, not by Armstrong XD). She didn't actually do anything bad, people just bring preconceptions because she has a creepy laugh...

Spoiler: Spoiler for 3-3
Yes but here's the whole thing. Why did she do that? She didn't have to.

Reason: She thought Tigre loved her. Not because of her connections with the mafia but just because he liked her as a person. Yet she knew all along, somewhere deep inside, that Tigre was being nice to her and 'loving her' because if he didn't her grandfather would kill him. Especially since he caused an accident worth a million dollars to Viola.

She's somewhat evil, yes. But she didn't even know Glen or had any previous connection with him. Tigre did though. She was involved and posed as Maggie because she thought it would make Tigre love her. Thus making her somewhat 'tragic'.


What did she do that was "evil"? Aside from helping Tigre covering up his cirme, she didn't do anything bad. I would consider her an "anti-hero", if anything.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Thread hijack go!
Spoiler: Space Saver
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Source

Oooh, you've stumbled upon one of my good friend's DeviantArt. She has NEVER played Phoenix Wright, though.

And this picture got one of my friend's computer taken away >_>

Such an evil picture XD
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Writer Awakened wrote:
At the end of 3-3, Viola says that she wanted to think that Tigre cared about her, but that she knew he really didn't. Why wouldn't she be intimidated by him? He's a pretty frightening guy.

WhiteElephant wrote:
Writer Awakened wrote:
How is :uramidn: a "tragic villain"? She wasn't the one who poisoned Elg's coffee, she just helped Tigre fake the scene and shake down Armstrong because she was intimidated by him (by Tigre, not by Armstrong XD). She didn't actually do anything bad, people just bring preconceptions because she has a creepy laugh...

Spoiler: Spoiler for 3-3
Yes but here's the whole thing. Why did she do that? She didn't have to.

Reason: She thought Tigre loved her. Not because of her connections with the mafia but just because he liked her as a person. Yet she knew all along, somewhere deep inside, that Tigre was being nice to her and 'loving her' because if he didn't her grandfather would kill him. Especially since he caused an accident worth a million dollars to Viola.

She's somewhat evil, yes. But she didn't even know Glen or had any previous connection with him. Tigre did though. She was involved and posed as Maggie because she thought it would make Tigre love her. Thus making her somewhat 'tragic'.


What did she do that was "evil"? Aside from helping Tigre covering up his cirme, she didn't do anything bad. I would consider her an "anti-hero", if anything.

Dude, she threatened to burn down Tres Bien the second time you met her (she was talking to Jean at the time). Not to mention she's involved with the mafia. Most likely Bruto's heir to the family business too.
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WhiteElephant wrote:
Writer Awakened wrote:
What did she do that was "evil"? Aside from helping Tigre covering up his cirme, she didn't do anything bad. I would consider her an "anti-hero", if anything.

Dude, she threatened to burn down Tres Bien the second time you met her (she was talking to Jean at the time). Not to mention she's involved with the mafia. Most likely Bruto's heir to the family business too.


:object: A baseball has stitches! Does that mean that all baseballs are suspicious?!?

Hey, the Mafia is supposed to threaten to burn people's businesses down! :P Doesn't mean she'd be the one doing it :P Plus, I always considered her a "friendly" Mobster XD.
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kevintobing wrote:
U Know..She Looked And Acted Like My Ex-Girlfriend
Cute,But..Had A Real Identity As A Demoness


hey! i felt that way about my exgirlfriend too!
...
and your name is kevin too?!?! WHAT THE HELL?? :S:S:S
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Contributatin'

Too big to load to PhotoBucket and I dunno if I can hotlink. :sadshoe:
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:chinami: yeah i have to admit she's kind of cute, but she's very very clever especially since she thought of everything by herself man
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I'd like to add Acro :acro: to the tragic viillians list.

After all, he

Spoiler: JFA spoilers
Lost his legs, lost his brother, and even killed the wrong person in an attempt at revenge. That's what I call bad luck.

If you can't beat them, humiliate them...In public.
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And :larry: He has no brain. sorry!
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Let's get back on topic, guys. :yogi:
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RISE FROM THE ASHES

Spoiler:
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Source

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Source
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Such cuteness x3~ -shall have to go search of more Dollie pictures- I think I saved some in my comp~
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Is that a naked :that-b-word: and :ayame: in one of those pics?

Sergeant Fransize, find me moar!

Please

Oh, and :that-b-word:'s hair seems to defy gravity.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
RISE FROM THE ASHES

Spoiler:
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AH! Brillo, Franzise!

Thanks!
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Signature and avatar by Mme. Vicki.
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title

True love is forever.

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 am

Posts: 2182

Pictures are always good.
Spoiler:

Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title

True love is forever.

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 am

Posts: 2182

I'm sorry to double post, but I found another pretty Dahlia pic.
Spoiler: Saving Space
Image


Source here
Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
Fanfics Updated-12/25
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title
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Writer Awakened need Klavi avatar BADLY!

Gender: Male

Location: In a place where Klavilami, Klavilana, and Sassyhobo run free and Klavier slowdances with Iris

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Posts: 1520

This is really reaching, but...I found this PW-styled parody of the opening of Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei on Youtube; note Dahlia and Iris hugging at 00:04. :D
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title

No avatar right now. Because I can. :D

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Writer Awakened wrote:
note Dahlia and Iris hugging at 00:04. :D

Hugging? I actually thought they were doing a little more than just that. xD;

*Shot*
This is my signature.
It is exactly 2.08% cooler than your signature.
ya rly
Re: Dahlia... actually looks cute in this pic...*spoilers*Topic%20Title
User avatar

Writer Awakened need Klavi avatar BADLY!

Gender: Male

Location: In a place where Klavilami, Klavilana, and Sassyhobo run free and Klavier slowdances with Iris

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:59 am

Posts: 1520

SELECT wrote:
Writer Awakened wrote:
note Dahlia and Iris hugging at 00:04. :D

Hugging? I actually thought they were doing a little more than just that. xD;

*Shot*


:hotti:

Considering some of the other stuff in that opening (the two girls at the beginning [Adrian and Fran XD], the bondage, scary looking Phoenix holding Maya) it's not out of place. XD
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