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3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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I haven't quite finished it yet and pleasingly I've used a guide very little throughout this case (and T&T as a whole)... but this is just brilliant.
MASSIVE SPOILERS
Spoiler:
All that stuff with Iris and Dahlia.. I wanted to cry :( Iris loved Dahlia even though she was so horrible :(
When you think the case is won, and Godot brings Maya onto the stand, I was like WTF?! Then when Godot is revealed as a possible murderer (!!!) If Maya says the killer was a man, it cant be Morgan (thats what I first thought...), but why the hell is Maya protecting the murderer?!


I'm not sure what to do now though, there seems to be a possible contradiction..
Spoiler:
If Maya channeled Dahlia to save herself, why does she look EXACTLY like Dahlia? I know her appearance is supposed to change, but for example, when Maya channels Mia, you can tell its Mia in Maya's body as she looks different from the real Mia (if you get what I mean).

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grim_tales wrote:
I haven't quite finished it yet and pleasingly I've used a guide very little throughout this case (and T&T as a whole)... but this is just brilliant.
MASSIVE SPOILERS
Spoiler:
All that stuff with Iris and Dahlia.. I wanted to cry :( Iris loved Dahlia even though she was so horrible :(
When you think the case is won, and Godot brings Maya onto the stand, I was like WTF?! Then when Godot is revealed as a possible murderer (!!!) If Maya says the killer was a man, it cant be Morgan (thats what I first thought...), but why the hell is Maya protecting the murderer?!


I'm not sure what to do now though, there seems to be a possible contradiction..
Spoiler:
If Maya channeled Dahlia to save herself, why does she look EXACTLY like Dahlia? I know her appearance is supposed to change, but for example, when Maya channels Mia, you can tell its Mia in Maya's body as she looks different from the real Mia (if you get what I mean).



Spoiler:
...First I think you might raised up the question in the thread "Phoenix Wright Cough Ups"(I'm not really sure about that though...just a suggestion).

Well, why Maya doesn't look like Mia when she channels her? Because she doesn't have Mia's hair style and clothing. However, Dahlia was trying to pretend to be Iris, so she must had combed her hair and something else.

I think that's the point...there, I know the end of the story is bitter, but that's why we like it so much, isn't it? :pearl:

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Re: 3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Hi,
I don't know if I mentioned it in the Cough-Up thread or not (I can't remember) :)

Spoiler:
Just now it looks like Godot did it to me - why he would I do not know. I don't think he would kill Misty, he would want to kill Dahlia (who has being channeled by Misty

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Spoiler: T&T
It's likely Maya was dressed in the traditional temple clothes to begin with and Dahlia was trying to frame Iris, so when she is channeled again, Dahlia can't know who channelled her this time (although she assumes Pearl) and changes her hair style. She tells us that she did as much when being channeled by Misty (and she is dimly aware that her last body was stabbed and this one isn't) and it wouldn't take much to realize that someone new had channeled her and restyled the hair.

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Re: 3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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but it doesnt make sense

Spoiler:
why would godot murder dahlia (whos being channeled by misty) when she can just be channeled again? to me i think it was really pointless and stupid of godot to kill misty. hence misty could most likely get rid dahlias spirit out of her because of her rank and amount spiritual power. if anything godot should've done everything he could to keep her alive (misty not dahlia obviously) so that misty could eventually tell maya and pearls who she really was and morgans plan

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I don't that 3-5 was the best episode...I thought there was a lot that was left open...

Spoiler: JFA: Case 2
I thought the twists, although somewhat expected were really creative for the game.

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Sam_Wright wrote:
but it doesnt make sense

Spoiler:
why would godot murder dahlia (whos being channeled by misty) when she can just be channeled again? to me i think it was really pointless and stupid of godot to kill misty. hence misty could most likely get rid dahlias spirit out of her because of her rank and amount spiritual power. if anything godot should've done everything he could to keep her alive (misty not dahlia obviously) so that misty could eventually tell maya and pearls who she really was and morgans plan

Spoiler:
He explained it in the game...he wanted to revenge.

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火曜日 wrote:
Sam_Wright wrote:
but it doesnt make sense

Spoiler:
why would godot murder dahlia (whos being channeled by misty) when she can just be channeled again? to me i think it was really pointless and stupid of godot to kill misty. hence misty could most likely get rid dahlias spirit out of her because of her rank and amount spiritual power. if anything godot should've done everything he could to keep her alive (misty not dahlia obviously) so that misty could eventually tell maya and pearls who she really was and morgans plan

Spoiler:
He explained it in the game...he wanted to revenge.


i know he wanted revenge. lol and tons of it

Spoiler:
but he shouldnt have killed misty just because she was channeling dahlia, hence she can just be channeled again by someone else like pearls.

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Sam_Wright wrote:
火曜日 wrote:
Sam_Wright wrote:
but it doesnt make sense

Spoiler:
why would godot murder dahlia (whos being channeled by misty) when she can just be channeled again? to me i think it was really pointless and stupid of godot to kill misty. hence misty could most likely get rid dahlias spirit out of her because of her rank and amount spiritual power. if anything godot should've done everything he could to keep her alive (misty not dahlia obviously) so that misty could eventually tell maya and pearls who she really was and morgans plan

Spoiler:
He explained it in the game...he wanted to revenge.


i know he wanted revenge. lol and tons of it

Spoiler:
but he shouldnt have killed misty just because she was channeling dahlia, hence she can just be channeled again by someone else like pearls.

Spoiler:
What can I say, Godot is an asshole. :yuusaku:

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Disappointed the
Spoiler:
Super Objection! wasnt used, that would have been far more dramatic.

I must be very near the end. Godot is a great character IMO.
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Quote:
Spoiler:
but he shouldnt have killed misty just because she was channeling dahlia, hence she can just be channeled again by someone else like pearls.

Quote:
Spoiler:
What can I say, Godot is an asshole. :yuusaku:



Spoiler: 3-5
Godot had lost himself to revenge; he had even admit he was being stupid and that he didn't care for Maya, he wanted to drive that sword in Dahlia's back. Whatever seems logical was lost on him, he was far a broken man.


That's what I gathered anyway. :P
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Sam_Wright wrote:
火曜日 wrote:
Sam_Wright wrote:
but it doesnt make sense

Spoiler:
why would godot murder dahlia (whos being channeled by misty) when she can just be channeled again? to me i think it was really pointless and stupid of godot to kill misty. hence misty could most likely get rid dahlias spirit out of her because of her rank and amount spiritual power. if anything godot should've done everything he could to keep her alive (misty not dahlia obviously) so that misty could eventually tell maya and pearls who she really was and morgans plan

Spoiler:
He explained it in the game...he wanted to revenge.


i know he wanted revenge. lol and tons of it

Spoiler:
but he shouldnt have killed misty just because she was channeling dahlia, hence she can just be channeled again by someone else like pearls.


Spoiler:
Whatever, I will just say I can understand why he did that kind of thing. He was almost killed by Dahlia and like anyone else does, he has his own dark side at the bottom of his heart. He was controlled by the impulsion of hurting Dahlia in any way at the moment, if she could be channeled by others didn't really bother him. See? He got through the death and I didn't, so I can't tell his feeling and...I have no idea if I can blame on him of doing his revenge.

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Spoiler:
It was despicable of Godot to kill Misty just because she was channelling Dahlia IMO. However there was a lot of sadness in Godot in those final scenes, to use a cliché, a tortured soul, who hate(d?) Nick because he thought Nick just let Mia die/didn't care. Godot is an asshole but a cool asshole.


Spoiler:
The ending is much the same as the other game endings really - while it was a bittersweet and sad ending at first - for Maya, Godot - certainly poor Maya, who lost her mom :(
The epilogue/end credits suggested a happier ending.
I thought Nick lost his badge in the ending? Or maybe I'm thinking of AJ?

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Last edited by grim_tales on Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Everyone in Phoenix Wright World is so obsessed with getting revenge for everything. Why can't anyone just let it go? :yuusaku:
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Re: 3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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I agree with you! Why did Godot take it out on Nick? He didnt do anything. It's very naive and stupid to say Nick didnt care! Of course he did.
The part with
Spoiler:
Iris and Dahlia always swapping places was confusing, but the bit where it was found Nick actually knew IRIS for 6 months and not Dahlia (because theyd swapped places), and Iris really did love him was so sweet :)

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grim_tales wrote:
Godot is an asshole but a cool asshole.


Spoiler:
lol i agree. at first i thought he was cool with his sayings about coffee and such, but blaming phoenix for mia's death and murdering misty.. after that i didnt really like him that much anymore

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grim_tales wrote:
Spoiler:
It was despicable of Godot to kill Misty just because she was channelling Dahlia IMO. However there was a lot of sadness in Godot in those final scenes, to use a cliché, a tortured soul, who hate(d?) Nick because he thought Nick just let Mia die/didn't care. Godot is an asshole but a cool asshole.


Spoiler:
The ending is much the same as the other game endings really - while it was a bittersweet and sad ending at first - for Maya, Godot - certainly poor Maya, who lost her mom :(
The epilogue/end credits suggested a happier ending.
I thought Nick lost his badge in the ending? Or maybe I'm thinking of AJ?


Spoiler:
Well...He didn't know who was channeling Dahlia at the moment, it could be either Misty or Pearl, just like I've said, he didn't care. He just considered the girl as Dahlia herself, even he actually knew she wasn't. As well,he wasn't able to face Mia's death and he turned his anger out on Nick unconsciously. He hated Nick because at the bottom of his heart, he knew he didn't dare to face the fact. It was neither Nick's or Godot's responsibility of Mia's death, he just couldn't accept it.

Maybe that's why I don't like him very much, even I feel sympathy for him.



Spoiler:
Oh, Nick didn't lose his badge because of Dahlia but someone else in the AJ, you will see it very soon. :will:



Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Everyone in Phoenix Wright World is so obsessed with getting revenge for everything. Why can't anyone just let it go? :yuusaku:



I'm sorry, but I can't see EVERYONE intents to revenge for everything. And you know,killing is not some kind of thing really easy to just let it go.(I'm not talking about Dahlia though. She's a ghost, after all. :P)
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Sorry about the GS4 thing, I should have put that in spoiler tags. I know virtually nothing about GS4 apart from that.
Spoiler:
I thought Godot blaming Phoenix for Mia's death was really selfish and shortsighted, but I have to admit I was impressed by how Godot admitted his shortcomings at the end. Even though he was badass and cool, I understood his pain, and the scene were Godot shares his coffee with Phoenix was superb.

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Yeah, I agree...
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About all of it?
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About what you posted on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:08 am =_,=
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Oh I see, thanks :)
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火曜日 wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Everyone in Phoenix Wright World is so obsessed with getting revenge for everything. Why can't anyone just let it go? :yuusaku:



I'm sorry, but I can't see EVERYONE intents to revenge for everything. And you know,killing is not some kind of thing really easy to just let it go.(I'm not talking about Dahlia though. She's a ghost, after all. :P)

Slight exaggeration on my part, but off the top of my head:
Spoiler: Entire series
Jack Hammer (1-3)
Yanni Yogi (1-4)
Manfred von Karma (DL-6)
Franziska von Karma (All of JfA)
Phoenix Wright (end of 2-2, which earned him massive whippings)
Acro (2-3)
Juan Corrida (2-4)
Adrian Andrews (2-4)
Shelley de Killer (2-4, you could argue it was for family honor and all that, but it still boils down to revenge)
Mia Fey (3-1)
Diego Armando/Godot (3-5)
Dahlia Hawthorne (3-5)
Phoenix and Mia again (3-5, I'm probably the only one on the forums who wasn't impressed by the trashtalk and maybe Dahlia did deserve it, but essentially telling someone their entire life was a joke and they were a waste of existance isn't what I consider very heroic :yuusaku: )

I'm not saying some of it wasn't justified, but yeah.
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Spoiler:
When Dahlia said "You can't punish me, I'm already dead" I thought she meant she wasnt actually DEAD, but had faked her own death or something, so in the eyes of the law she was effectively "dead". I didnt get the channelling thing at first!

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More like "Most overrated case in the entire series."
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I loved it!!! I was sure it was Bikini at first! I was convinced she was actually a murdering man :gant:

SO. MANY. PLOT-TWISTS.

I nearly fell out of my seat when I realized that the man Maya was referring to was Godot. Best WTF moment I've had when playing a game (besides that time I tried summoning the Magus Sisters in FFX and Yuna kept running around in circles instead of summoning) n.n

Like,

"WTF HOW DID GODOT GET THERE???"

then,

"NOOO GODOT'S TOO COOL TO GO TO JAIL ; ;"

Best new character in a game series ever I-M-H-O.
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That surprised me too.
Franzize I love your avitar of (older?) Ema. Ouch :o
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This was probably my favorite case out of all of the cases throughout the games.
Even figuring some of the many plot twists, I never saw
Spoiler:
Iris was disguised as Dahlia and dated Feenie and really did love him
coming...
Formerly Avenger...
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Me neither, I thought that was so sweet
Spoiler:
Nicey-nice "Dahlia" was really Iris... awwww

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Personally. I both hate and love 3-5, As seems to be the trend with 3...

Spoiler: PHASE WUN
Edgey Versus Franziska, That was an awesome match to be. Except... I wanted to see Edgey stomp on Godot, Personally. And they -fucked- the whole match up inside and OUT by bringing in Judge Bro instead of the Judge we know and love.


Spoiler: Ending
I swear to god, I was suprised as hell when I remembered it. The first thing I thought on the 'Man' Comment was..

'Wait, Is Maya suggesting Phoenix did it?' Since, Like I was supposed to believe, Phoenix was the -only- competent male at the temple.

I also considered Maya was just being...well, Maya. And saw a man because she wanted to believe Phoenix saved her.

Then it went to 'Someone she could see in the dark'. And I remembered 3-3. And jaw dropped.

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In my view it was the best case ever. there were so many freaking plot twists and turns and I nearly had heart attacks multiple times during this case. I laughed my head off. and I cheered and cried. I had sworn my head exploded after i was done.
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Whilst I agree that 'Bridge to the Turnabout' is a brilliant case.
I was very dissatisfied with Misty's lack of mention of her first daughter.
It was as if she doesn't exist.

Photo? Pfft, that's not good enough.

She gave her life to find you, and you don't even acknowledge her existence.

Misty Fey.

I am very unimpressed. :edgeworth:
Why are you...lying to me?
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I found it to be one giant Asspull of a case. Pulling a Twin thing on Dahlia and Iris - what the hell? They suddenly create this twin who we had no idea even existed, so now we're supposed to think it's a goddamn huge, special awesome plot twist? More like overly used stereotype. Maybe I should expect every character in a game to now have a twin.
That whole case shouldn't have been possible. I mentioned this in another post of mine, but Morgan was imprisoned for a year before Case 3-5. She had no contact with either of her older daughters since they were taken, so how did Morgan know she'd meet Dahlia, that Dahlia was even gonna be executed and could be used like that? How the hell could they have thought up a plan, which according to Dahlia wasn't created until 1 or 2 months ago, that involved her channeling, with A YEAR OLD letter already having the plan in it?

Several of the plot twists were really obvious to me. Like Elise being Misty - don't ask me how, I saw her on the screen and instantly knew it was her. And that Maya was channeling Dahlia in the end. And some other stuff.
If they had thought things through a bit more, maybe the case would've been more fun to me. It was nice to play it, but it just didn't make sense, timeline-wise. Fix things in regards to the letter, figure out a good reason for Godot to not burn said letter - wanting to be a hero is not a good reason, you semi-blind addict....

C-A
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Meh, I thought the last case of JFA was the best in the entire series (AJ's 1st/last case being second) in terms of direction and higher risks/pressure to get the case in your favor.


Though 3-5 was a case that perfectly tied up everthing about the PW-era series IMO...and then AJ came along and whacked things up story-wise :P
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Huddini wrote:
Meh, I thought the last case of JFA was the best in the entire series (AJ's 1st/last case being second) in terms of direction and higher risks/pressure to get the case in your favor.


Though 3-5 was a case that perfectly tied up everthing about the PW-era series IMO...and then AJ came along and whacked things up story-wise :P


I found 2-4 to be annoying because Phoenix lacked balls for the majority of it. XD
And AJ was originally made to promote the Jury System, which was being reinstated in Japan around that time, so they made a game purely to show the good sides of it. (I wonder if one PW/AJ game will focus on the bad sides of it)

Somebody said that the T&T cases all focused on something important and didn't side-track on anything like in JFA*, but I dunno.... granted, Case 3-2 introduces Ami's statue and the spear-sword, which doesn't become important until 3-5. But case 3-3 felt weird to me. It had nothing to do with anything in T&T or Dahlia. Except a mention of poison and betrayal.

* People hate case 2-3, but I find it nice, after thinking about it. It proves that, serving justice as it should be, can tear things apart and destroy them. Wasn't 2-3 the only sympathetic murder in the PW universe?

C-A
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Considering Phoenix had a personal stake in that case (Maya being kidnapped anyone and having to pin the blame on a fragile innocent chick, forced to either defend his client to the very death as the system forced it to be, or take a big risk pissing off his blackmailer in the aim of the so-called "truth" ??), it's understandable he quote "lacked the balls for the majority of it". He's never been put in that type of situation before by then.

It's arguably his most toughest case when it came to high stakes, whereas I was hoping it would get real higher for him in T&T...

But, T&T's stakes were that of emphasis on the Fey family in general, they had everything to lose, but it wasn't necessarily high-stakes for phoenix himself, considering if Edgeworth took the case entirely in Phoenix's place, he would've been able to complete the case just as well as Phoenix could've (but obviously it wouldn't have been impactful to the player regarding Godot).
Re: 3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILETopic%20Title
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3-5 wasn't a very important case. Phoenix had already learned in 2-4 that justice doesn't mean to get all your clients acquitted. Everything afterwards was pretty much a washcloth case. The impact wasn't there, as you said.

3-5 felt more like the "This is why Godot was created" case. We just get told why this guy, who randomly became a prosecutor apparently, went through all this charade. Only to learn that he is a sad, poor man who can't pull himself together after losing his life once and his love, then hearing that he cannot even yell at the person whom he deems responsible. Dahlia, not Redd White. Seriously, it's like he spends his free-time wallowing in his misery instead of letting it go.

I keep hearing people say that Godot misplaced his anger onto Wright, because Godot cannot see Red on White - referring to Redd White being actually responsible for Mia's death. I get that, it sorta fits. But what about the Japanese version? That guy's name was Konako - granted, I'm not sure about the kana because I just skimmed through that case to hear Mitsurugi - but how does that work out then?

C-A
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Re: 3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILETopic%20Title
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One thing bugs me about 3-5:

Spoiler:
If it was pitch-black in the garden on the night of the murder, then how was Dahlia able to see Maya well enough to attack her?
Re: 3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILETopic%20Title
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Smithee wrote:
One thing bugs me about 3-5:

Spoiler:
If it was pitch-black in the garden on the night of the murder, then how was Dahlia able to see Maya well enough to attack her?


Supernatural sight, due to her "condition"?
Although I somehow remember something about the large candle being lit? Am I remembering it wrong? Or didn't she say she was walking Maya to the garden - so the previous place was sort of lit and she knew about where Maya was standing and took her chance?

C-A
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Re: 3-5 may be the best case in the entire PW series (SPOILETopic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Smithee wrote:
One thing bugs me about 3-5:

Spoiler:
If it was pitch-black in the garden on the night of the murder, then how was Dahlia able to see Maya well enough to attack her?


Supernatural sight, due to her "condition"?
Although I somehow remember something about the large candle being lit? Am I remembering it wrong? Or didn't she say she was walking Maya to the garden - so the previous place was sort of lit and she knew about where Maya was standing and took her chance?

C-A


Spoiler:
Godot = infrared visor
Dahlia = ???
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