Before I begin, let me say a disclaimer:

One, I know fully well that this could and might get locked. My tone, what I say, and what topics I may bring up may indeed push me to being banned or something, but I feel that I should risk it. I feel like if this doesn't happen now, this place will never change. Also, I mean to offend no one with what I say, no matter how it may seem like. If I offend you, I apologize. Now, on with the topic.

Back in March of '08, I came here to check up on what the people who made Phoenix Wrong were talking about. I learned this place had a forum shortly after, and I joined to see what it was about. I remember one of the first things I posted in; the "Misty Fey is Edgeworth's Mom!" thread. I had fun, a lot of it, even on my first day. I loved the atmosphere, and started to come back more and more, until it was a daily event. I pretty much stayed in the Phoenix Wright section for a while, keeping up with the threads and such, and having fun. Then, summer hit.

It was around the time June had started, I was out of school. I went looking for something occupy my time during the summer rather than just visiting one section of a forum, so I went exploring the forum properly. After visiting a few places, I eventually laid my eyes upon the biggest place for forum goers to go at the time; the Berry Big Circus section. I go inside and look around a bit. I check some games to see what they were about, and then I see it. The one game that would alter pretty much the second half of 08 for me. The game of Mafia.

Ah yes, Mafia. How I had fun with that. At the time, I had joined up around the infamous CR Round VI. After a month of that, we went on to Rookie Killer Mafia. During the middle of what was the insanity of Rookie Killer (and believe you me, it was INSANELY aweome), the forum crash happened. We moved into the old invisionfree forum and continued on from there.

The majority of the time from then to November was the discussion about how CR would be fixed and what had to be taken out. The BBC and Search functions were the biggest things hit, and it made a lot of people mad. For us Mafia people, we had an epic round going and didn't want to loose it. While we mostly understood that it was going to be nessecary to save the place, we got the old forums to run our stuff, so we were happy. We then learned two things later on: One, when the forums got a better server to go on, we would not get our BBC back, and later on, we learned that the old forum would close.

This caused a gigantic uproar. Bigger than the original one. The BBC people felt betrayed, and hurt, causing a lot of us to leave. Some of us, intent on keeping it together, discussed what we should do, and decided to make an affiliate site to keep Mafia there. Still, a lot of people left CR because of this.

Now, I'm sure you're wondering why I'm focusing on Mafia so much. Well, the people who played were also some of the best people on the forums in personality and etc. As things got worse for the game, a lot left the place because of it. And it's not just that people move on to other things, at least a few members pretty much left because of the BBC closing. And then soon, people who were around at the time we were at our peak started leaving too because our friends were leaving and we didn't know a lot of people who remained.

After we were getting situated finally, with pretty much everything solved, I had left for a few months to do other things. I was probably gone for a greater part of November and December, and came back some time Dec-Jan looking to see how the good ol' site was.

I didn't like what I saw when I came back. Repeat topics were in quite a few places, threads with not so good ideas behind them were created and popular, and the magic seemed to disappear. Everything seemed looser around here, less like it used to be. More run-down.

And a lot of new people came too. People I didn't know, and frankly, some I didn't like. Most of these people came after the server problem was solved. They didn't know a lot of what it was like beforehand. And because of that, it's changed, and not all for the good. Extra mods that were put in place to help control the crap and everything didn't seem to help much in the long run. It's not their fault, (those spam attacks don't help) there is just too much to handle. We have people comaplaining about the states of forums like the Games forum and that shouldn't be. Something needs to be done.

It's almost been a year since I came, and with this passing year, it's changed a lot. "Why not leave?" a few of you might ask. The truth is, I care about this place too much to let it keep going the way it's going. I believe something needs to be done. The forums need to improve, I feel. And whether it's by tightening up around here, or anything, I think it should be done to make the place a better place.

Now I may be entirely alone on this, or maybe not. I really don't know. All I know is that this needs to be said, in my opinion. And while I may have gone overboard, Mafia and server crash wise, but the impact that these left was big. And now, after it's over for both of them, the place seems to have died a bit. Mostly because quite a few key, good, popular members left. Whether it was because of decisions made, or because everyone else was, they left, and nothing has filled the void, and the overall quality has dropped. I don't want it to die entirely.

For those who read this (or most of it), I thank you. I'm not trying to cause trouble here, I just want a problem I feel is apparent here, addressed. That's all. I don't feel animosity (if that's spelled right) toward anyone, but I shouldn't need to explain why I chose what I chose. Again, thank you.

-P_A, a concerned member.

P.S.: I have gotten everything I've needed to say out. Don't worry.

PPS: Croik, if you want to discuss this, my AIM, Phantom4077 should be open everyday for a while.

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To be honest, I feel that you're right in a way. Back when I joined in '07, the forum was really fun. More fun than any other forum I had been on. People were all over the place, so many topics, ideas, and discussions. And all of that seemed to last until the later parts of 2008. As P_A said, the server crash and closing of the BBC caused alot of fun people to leave. I enjoyed the BBC, but I enjoyed having some of those guys around more. They made the forum alot of fun, so did the BBC.

I agree the place has died some. It's not boring, but not as fun as it once was. It seems slower these days. And to be honest, I feel kinda sorry for some of these newer members, joining at a time when nothing much goes on anymore. They don't get to see what kind of fun we had in the past.

I really miss those days. The days when I actually wanted to get on CR and see what folks were talking about. Now I just go up and see if anything has happened at all.

Well, that's all I have to say. I agree with you 100% P_A.

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You know, someone should make a forum on a free, online, maybe crappy server, called "Berry Big Circus: The Court-Records.net Playground", marking the revival of the BBC. What do you think?

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Oh don't be silly PA...

... It is partly my fault. :( I've really not been around here as much as I need to be, patrolling or posting. I've been busy, true, but I've still had plenty of time. So yeah, sorry everyone. *siiigh*

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But if the BBC wasn't done with, they might of not gotten their own website XD
Besides, the only thing that the BBC really had to do with Court Records was that it was on the forum index.
This is a GS fansite XD
There are a lot of other forums out there with special game sections, where you can talk about nothingness and reply with one word answers all you want.


I mean, the spammers are sort of annoying, and some new people are rude, but if you can't get past that I don't know what to tell you.
Because it is the internet.

You went though a phase.
What used to be fun, isn't fun anymore.
I used to like Barbies
Now they are boring and I hate the new ones.

If your problem is that the forum changed, I don't know what to tell you.
I know where you are coming from, but the best thing I can say is...
Well just leave.
I don't mean that in a mean way, but don't stay somewhere if you are unhappy.
It is impossible to fix the "problems" that have been occuring.
Some people prefer it this way.
To me, [Started to lurk around June?] The only thing that has changed about this place is the amount of people, and the BBC.


Well if you are leaving, I bid you goodbyes.
I'm going to continue enjoying this Phoenix Wright/Apollo Justice Fansite.
Because thats what its meant to be.
Keep your heads held high Croik, Wooster, and all the other Mods and Admins =D
You guys are doin finee.

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I may not have been around here as a lot of you, But I've seen my fair share of people leave.
Great members, Most of who shaped my first impressions of this forum.

I understand what you mean in a way, The changes have contributed somewhat to their departure, but nonetheless they were necessary.
Like all things, Time changes things, places and people.

Just part of the life of a public forum, old people leave, new people sign up.
You shouldn't hate or fear change in any aspect of life, this is no exeption.

Just go for the ride as long as you're having fun.

I'm sorry that you feel that way P_A but I am really not about to open up the issue of the Mafia again. It has already been discussed at length and I made myself very clear on how I felt about it. It has it's own home now so I don't see that it has to come up here anymore.

As for the rest, as mods we do our best. Fandoms grow - there are always going to be new people coming in, and as things get bigger, they change. There will always been noobs and we guide them as best we can. To be honest having been here the whole time I can honestly say I don't see too much of a difference, other than that everything we've always had exists in larger quantities than it once did.

As for "not much going on" the difference now is that America has caught up to the Japanese gamemakers. In the beginning of PW's international fandom we had a game coming out either in Japan or overseas every few months, so there was a lot to discuss and update. Of course it felt like new things were happening more often. Now that we have to wait longer for the games to come out it can't be helped that things get a little stale in between, and that's why we try to do things like the contests and adding new sections and such. But we can't do those constantly, of course.

When people bring problems to me I try to address as best I can, but what you're really describing is a symptom of fandoms growing larger in general, which happens all the time and isn't exactly in anyone's control.

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BBC has its own website!?

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I stopped reading at "Mafia."

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People get known, people lose interest, people leave, other people lament that they left and might leave as well, while newcomers keep coming in. It's how it goes anywhere on the frantic world of the internet. To be frank, I miss some people as well, but hey, some of the new people are cool folks too.

Of course, it doesn't help capcom isn't saying much to us as of late - new games always bring a surge of people in.

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Somehow I doubt that >.>
But there is a Mafia website.

The BBC was just a games section.
You can find that on many other forums.

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P_A, I understand what you're going through. Unfortunately (and I'm going to sound like a broken record), that's the way it goes. I used to be part of this forum where there were incredibly strict rules (no graphics for sigs or avatars) because the game is was supposed to promote was for kids 10 and up, so the forum had to be extra safe. Us teens found other ways to get around it; we had fun with the little swirlies and ASCII we could make and use as sigs. When the site redid everything and made those things less fun (long story), many people left; many were my friends.

Did I get upset? Yeah, sure I did. I left because it wasn't the place I knew anymore. But more importantly, I left because I grew out of the games.

But there are people there who join and have no idea what the old boards used to be. When I first joined it, I was considered a newbie in a sense that I didn't know what it "used to be". Now I am considered one of the last survivors of the great forum change on that website.

You need to understand, P_A, that forums are a lot like the passing of generations. Older people can complain that things aren't like they used to be; whether it's the morality, the ozone layer, etc. But the truth is, these new generations shouldn't be "blamed"; they came into the world and they're shaping it as they liked it.

So, P_A, give those new people a chance! I know you're sad that the old ones have left, but what about people like me, who when they first came into Court Records, never even went into the BBC? I actually was a little upset because all of the "bigwigs" would go to the BBC and so no one who was largely considered "cool" or "special" ever knew who I was. (not that that really matters on a forum, but hopefully you get my point ;) ). So here I was, a newbie struggling to get her first fanfic out there for the world to see.
I never participated in any Mafia, and my posts in the BBC were few and far between. I was one of the newbies to see the new Court Records. That doesn't mean I'm not interesting to talk to. You can find new friends here every day; it's going to be hard, I know, I'm not ignorant. But give us a chance, right? And even if I'm not considered a newbie, give those who truly are a chance, as well! There are new people out there who have no idea what Mafia is; I bet there are some who would be honored to meet and talk with these old-timers. XD

If I offended anyone with this message, I am deeply sorry and meant no offense whatsoever. I was not trying to bash certain people at all.
Well, it's not as if this message is going to really matter, anyhow.

P.S. I called myself a "newbie" because I was barely around when this great change occured. Also, I have barely been here for a year. I can't believe I've gotten that many posts, though...

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I like it here, I get a lot of my daily laughs in these forums.

But I only joined last month so I don't really know all this other stuff...

But that post made me feel a bit sad X^)

Change is haard

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Am I not cool or special enough for you Cae? :3

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Aw, I didn't know you that well, back then, Gerk! Of course you're special and cool! You're uber cool!!

*hugs*

All I meant was that I felt a little out of place in those BBC forums because I'd post and everyone would act like they knew each other and I didn't know anyone that well. It's like a latecomer to a party where you know maybe one person, but everybody else knows each other.

Also, I think the lack of BBC allows people to see others' art, projects, writings, etc. And bond that way instead of games not necessarily relating to PW. I'm not saying I'm glad that the BBC was gone, I'm just saying that it opens up other new opportunities.

I didn't mean to make you feel bad, Gerk *more hugs*

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I don't know, the place seems fairly the same (coming from someone who's been around for a while, but mostly lurks with the occasional posting splurge), the only difference being that there aren't new games coming out that we talk and spoil each other about. Sure we have one new game in a few months, but the games are going to be released much farther apart than before (for us in the the US).

Wait a few more months, things may get hopping again for a little bit. Then it'll die down until the American release of GK, then it'll be hopping a little again, then another dead streak until the next game is even announced.

Quite honestly though, Mafia didn't hold my interest.

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I lurked though the crash, but didn't discover Mafia until I want to AAO. I don't feel the site it any different, but I am one of the people who mainly hangs around the Present evidence board, which appears to be pretty similar to how it always was :P

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The BBC at CRM is not nearly popular enough. I say we bring back the BBC and leave out Mafia, IMP.

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I expect the Mafia ate a lot of the BBC server space...

It might need a frequent clean out though, which could be a lot of work...

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woopster n croik betrayed us

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I do admit, I did put a lot about Mafia in that post when I really shouldn't have. I think I was just finally trying to let it out by just getting it out one more time.

But still, I'm not oblivious. I know we're in a dry spell games wise at the moment (when I joined, it was practically the same) but that's not the point. It seems like quite a few things about what made this forum the best I've been to have just gone, and not just the BBC. I remember, the CR family Tree and some of the RPs built around it were really fun, but now it seems like it just went on the wayside and died a bit. Topics in the Defendant's Lobby that were genuinely interesting (Sympathy for Darke, the one about how most every character related to another that didn't get stickied, etc) seem to be dropped more and more for things that just seem more superficial. But, as someone said, this cannot be fixed. I have to live with these, and keep the good topics alive.

EDIT: I also see lots of repeat topics "What character do you like in GS3" "What's you're favorite PW1 music" and etc. Those really seem to be more frequent lately.

However, there is stuff that CAN be fixed. Like having more forum projects, more genuinely fun ideas. Perhaps something everyone can do. Something to inject more life into this place and let everyone's personalities out a bit so I can get to know this next generation a bit more.

As I've said, I'm not leaving. I care too much to give up. I just want this place to be more fun. I just want it to be more lively all across the board than in just certain sections. If we can improve this place by any means, I'd be up to helping.

I just wish we could have more planned things. I know people have lives, but we should still be able to have things to do while the Admins can or cannot support us. We should still be able to do stuff in between game releases. Maybe a planning team or something? You could just volunteer for it or something, nothing mandatory. Just something.

I've seen this type of thing happen on other forums before. One person brings up about how much the site has changed, not all for the better, and the community helps make it better. That's what I want to do here. Make it so everyone can enjoy it again.

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Last edited by Phoenix_Apollo on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't excatly call that a funny or tastefull comic.

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I agree with your opinion on forum projects.
I dabbled into that a while ago. (yes, I'm bringing up the sprite cup, but it's relevant :p)
Feel free to come up with ideas though, and pitch them to the admins.
Or just go ahead and organize some with a group of people.
Who knows, it might lead to something. ^_^

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You are clearly under the influence of the noobalution.

We all know noobs will come, but even you Croik must be able to see that 2008 saw a rediculous amount of supernoobs, noobs that are completely impervious to the unnoobening process that normally occurs over time. Those that can't see after shit knows how many editions that Jazzhand smilies aren't good, or that try to recreate topics that died for good reason before they were even here.
There is no succession here. When epic members leave, they do not get replaced, they get their space filled with ever more noobs. Without the BBC which brought out the character of members by providing a medium not restricted by subject-based discussion, this will never happen again.
However, if it will be broken by sucky mafia topics and be completely trashed like it was in 2008, so be it, it needed to go and I'm glad it did.

However I miss the times of summer 2007.

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Last edited by Ultimate Prosecutor on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Personally, I'm fucking glad BBC got shut down when it did, especially after how much of an epic fail it became in 2008. UP's post pretty much sums up my feelings about the whole thing.

Last edited by TSS on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That comic would have been funnier without the 9-11 tie in. Using the ACTUAL pictures doesn't help either.

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Sprite cups and contests are really all that ever goes on here anymore. While they're fun and all for those who can do them, a lot of people probably feel left out because they're not artistically creative, or really don't want to do spriting. I'm not entirely sure what we CAN do either, as we seem to want to be focused on just the fandom. There should be projects that apeal to more people. I'd start a thread organizing it if it was supported.


Oh, and that comic is uh, nice Holly. Maybe inappropriate only because it involves Croik, but it's alright.

Oh, and the BBC was awesome. You haters are just upset because it had too much activity.

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BBC was great but it went through many stages in iteslf.
The first half being the "Last Poster Wins" era. It was nothing but pure randomness (i.e. spam) with smilie topics and joke drama (Oh I remember when we kept on laughing at Headbang). It was a good time.
The second half being the "BBC Coffee" era. It was nothing but socialising and family-trees which led to real drama and even suicidal chatter. It was a terrible time.

I'm with TSS in that BBC was better off being shut down because it just turned to shit. Along with the Interrogation Room getting shut down too and the lack of Ace Attorney news (many just care about Phoenix Wright himself), this place just keeps getting more boring.

Time is not kind to this place. :/

Last edited by RevFirst on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

users are not kind to this place

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Also, I'm not exactly HH's biggest fan, but I don't even have to know the guy to know what epic win has been posted.



It's more intricate than that, and the BBC Coffee Bar era did have its moments. There however, came a third era. A third, unspeakable, fail-filled era. The Dark Ages, if you will. I am of course referring to BBC during the noob takeover of 2008. And such times are what a lot of people here in refer to as 'good'.

Last edited by TSS on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Precisely. *smoke pipe*

This.

On TSSs last point there was of course the Last Poster Wins II: The NooB edition to which I referred earlier. Oh the fail.

Time is not kind at all.
*smokes revolution powder*

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I can't say that I have an opinion on this one, but I can sympathize with you. I used to be a part of a grand (well, not really so grand) linerider forum called the Line Zone. Last year, we hit several speed bumps right when we started to get bigger. These bumps knocked people out of the preverbial (and literal, for one of our members) truck, and facefirst into the ground. We eventually got to the point where we had 5 active members, and we only posted about once or wice a week. The vbulletin was still being payed for by one of our inactive members, who decided to shut it down entirely.

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*stops smoking*
I remember all that, sadly. Still, I was never a fan of BBC Coffee era and it was full of new members (at the time) hence why I still count that in. Never saw the difference between these two myself but we all have different opinions, even if they're similar.
*starts smoking bubbles*

The BBC coffee era had two distinct users, the old LPW guys, and the others who got themselves all loveydovey and drama'd up, as a result there was annoying drama but also some pretty awsome posting too. The first one was pretty good, but then by the second and third edition of it (The previous being shut down from dramas) it was all too fail, and the invasion had begun.

*moves on to the light lagers*

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Agreed.

And after reading posts by RevFirst and Ultimate Prosecutor, I wonder what CR was like before I joined.

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Better than it freaking is now. There's a reason I barely visit.

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HH I smiled. A slow, cynical smile. And it was good.

As for the rest, I think P_A is still being overly critical. You just mentioned "threads like Sympathy for Darke" being left by the wayside but that thread is only a few days old and I've seen it consistently on the first page of the Defense Lobby. There is still intelligent discussion going on around the board but it's not always easy to find just because there are so many topics in general. But I'm not about to tell people they can't have simpler topics like the character threads because too much limitation and there won't be anything to talk about (especially in the break between games).

It's easy enough to say, "There should be more interesting topics!" but nothing is stopping you from creating those topics. Are you expecting the admin team to come up with every attention-holding discussion? Even if we do clamp down on every half-frivolous topic that does not mean meaningful ones will suddenly appear. Someone has to make them.

I fully support people creating fan projects, and if you come up ideas I would be glad to promote them. But it's not like there aren't certain projects already. Why not join in on a casemaker project? Not all of the work involved there is artistic, they also need editors and coders. You don't need to be a good artist to learn code.

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Down with the old, in with the new, I say!

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I think this is a silly topic.

There... I said it nicely... >_>