Well I don't have time now to reply to the rest of your post but, the above sounds a lot like the attitude to Phoenix imposed in GS4, which was essentially Phoenix on trial in the mind of the player. [Acting as a jurist rather than his defense attorney maybe?]

So would they turn out to be false in the end?

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It depends. That the questions are raised about Phoenix's reformist methods and increased radicalism is enough to establish the ambiguity within the law, because it shows how full investigation is required to remove any obscurity and avoid injustices. This is very similar to GS4's themes, though.

If they were true, it suggests that the reforms from GS4 have the potential to go too far, parodoxicaly resulting in injustices in the name of justice. Once again, it would suggest vigilance because it shows that one must continuously examine their motives in order to ensure that the delicate balance is maintained. This would tie in to themes explored in Rise from the Ashes.

In both cases, motive and result (means and ends) would be the major theme. The first is a bit more focused on the observer's need to be inquiring, while the latter is more geared to an exploration of motives themselves, but both contain elements of each other.

In my own opinion, I could see both working. I would suggest, though, that Phoenix is not irredeemable if his ethics are decayed, just because the redemptive aspect would be more supporting of the idea of vigilance as a requirement. Were he irrecovably corrupt, it would suggest that vigilance may be futile, and anyone who attempts to reform the law will eventually become corrupt. To quote Harvey Dent's line in The Dark Knight: "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

That kind of fatalism probably isn't well-suited for the GS series. Besides, the themes can be done as easily even if Phoenix doesn't necessarily admit he was wrong, just by impressing on him the warning that he could end up becoming what he fights against.

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I won't buy/dl the game if Phoenix gets murdered in the last case.
Period.

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This thread has been the most interesting read I've seen in a while. As for myself, I like how they handled Phoenix in AJ, and felt he developed even more as a character. I would also be interested how he would be down the path of corruption, like Edgey was predicted to be, and if he ended up dying, it would make it more interesting as a result.

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OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO! i wouldnt want phoenix to be the victim. at least let payne be the victim or sumthin

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Phoenix dying... I wouldn't like it- not one bit. Unless he came back in a dramatic entrance, and that would be so cliche that everybody would see it coming. I would rather something involving the 1-5 cast (Lana, Ema, Marshall, Angel, possibly Gant), actually tying GS4 to a case in Phoenix's trilogy. It is (I believe) the only case that is referenced in all of GS4 (when Apollo finds Trucy's panties in the muffler, case 4-2) and would like to see more of the 1-5 cast, because they were so well developed for a cast that only appeared once.

My second idea was as follows, if Phoenix did die:




Yeah...no. Sorry about the long rant...

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I'd be okay with them doing it ONLY if he gets a positive heroic death- a la Spock in Star Trek II. Maybe he died saving someone else the killer was gunning for, or some such thing. And maybe set up something like they did for Spock, an emergency return measure- though they really already have to some degree, with channeling and such. Either way, I'd be disappointed with anything less than a heroic/honorable death for Nick, he deserves at least that much after what they've done to him thus far.

Indeed. Just as long as it's not cliché.

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I wouldn't want Phoenix to die, surely not in a sad, tragic way!

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Honestly if Phoenix was killed I can only think of Trucy doing one thing, which is suicide. Seriously it would just be too hard on her I'd think. What this would do to Apollo would be not good, perhaps he would start to lose hope and become a cynic, also Apollo would have some issues seeing as he'd be out of a place to work again (sucks to be you Apollo). Next how would Thalassa react if she found out her daughter killed herself and her son had lost faith in all of humanity? Not well I'd assume. Now we have Valant finding out that Thalassa is alive but, Trucy is dead and Thalassa is at best a shadow of her former self. Now back to cynic Apollo, how do you think he'll affect the world? I say he either doesn't trust people anymore and stops defending or he no longer cares about the truth and gets even guilty people off if they pay well since he's more concerned in his own well being than that of others and is in financial trouble. This means either innocents are sent to jail/ executed or the guilty get off and kill even more innocents (possibly both).

Or alternatively instead of what was previously said for Apollo, Trucy and Nick's deaths cause him to become an alchoholic, and eventually ends up coming to a trial drunk (you probably know where this leads).

The effects of this (either version of messed up Apollo's story) would probably cause Valant to quit performing as a magician and without his performances giving joy to the masses the amount of stress in the general public and as a result number of murders significantly increases.

Vera also becomes depressed beause of Valant not performing (Gramaryes all gone) and because of the increased number of murders becomes afraid of going out again.

Ema has to deal with several more murders now so the stress becomes way too much and she snaps.

The murders also start to get in the way of the Kitaki family's buisiness, which means they can't afford the surgery.

As you can see this would spiral out of control and become a chain reaction of doom.