Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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That and murders seem like they brought him nothing but trouble. Personally speaking, I'd shy away from what got me disbarred in the first place if I got my badge back <_<;;;
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Aaiiry wrote:
That and murders seem like they brought him nothing but trouble. Personally speaking, I'd shy away from what got me disbarred in the first place if I got my badge back <_<;;;
Fixed the size so everyone could read it without a magnifying glass. Sheesh.
And, if you recall, it's what got him "where he was" in the first place. Assuming that he had cases that weren't mentioned in the game, and only his high profile cases were featured, every single one of his important cases involved murder. Murder cases were his bread and butter.
Or Cheeseburgers and Miso Ramen.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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grim_tales wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler: 4-4
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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The ONLY way he was able to take down a man who had no qualms about forging convincing evidence was to institute the Jurist system.
The entire storyline of GS4 had major parts of it forced on them. One forced part was to have the Jurist system introduced, and the other part was to have phoenix in. But Phoenix had no motive for bringing it in. Therefore, they had to give Phoenix a motive for introducing it. They had to make it be the ONLY way to take down the guy.
And thus, we have the wallbanger of a story that is GS4. Phoenix had to be disbarred, and it had to be not his fault, and thus a new attorney had to be brought in.
All those big damn heroes moments where someone shows up at the last moment to save you from a gameover are a gameplay mechanic, pure and simple, to catch people who save before every choice. There are a few traps left that they still haven't used, though. Here's one of them. It's really mean, so i dunno if they will use it.
1) have two unavoidable penalties in one case. The first one will be a standard penalty, and the second one will take 3/4ths of the bar. The catch? You have to break a psychelock in the lobby, and if you take the usual method of trying everything because you can't really get a game over in one, you will enter court without enough life to handle the unavoidable penalty. (these penalties will in both cases cause a witness to slip up, revealing the needed info for a further press). If you go down below 1/4th before breaking the lock, you will have to restart from the beginning of the chapter.
I think it's easily possible to get Phoenix his badge back, and have him do some cases, and Apollo do some, each of them winning their cases in their own way. (Phoenix is the master at bluffing until someone slips up, while Apollo actually confronts lies spotted by is power head on)
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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zaphod77 wrote:
The whole point of the black psyche-locks was that they could NOT be broken. Phoenix simply could not do this alone.
The ONLY way he was able to take down a man who had no qualms about forging convincing evidence was to institute the Jurist system.
The entire storyline of GS4 had major parts of it forced on them. One forced part was to have the Jurist system introduced, and the other part was to have phoenix in. But Phoenix had no motive for bringing it in. Therefore, they had to give Phoenix a motive for introducing it. They had to make it be the ONLY way to take down the guy.
And thus, we have the wallbanger of a story that is GS4. Phoenix had to be disbarred, and it had to be not his fault, and thus a new attorney had to be brought in.
All those big damn heroes moments where someone shows up at the last moment to save you from a gameover are a gameplay mechanic, pure and simple, to catch people who save before every choice. There are a few traps left that they still haven't used, though. Here's one of them. It's really mean, so i dunno if they will use it.
1) have two unavoidable penalties in one case. The first one will be a standard penalty, and the second one will take 3/4ths of the bar. The catch? You have to break a psychelock in the lobby, and if you take the usual method of trying everything because you can't really get a game over in one, you will enter court without enough life to handle the unavoidable penalty. (these penalties will in both cases cause a witness to slip up, revealing the needed info for a further press). If you go down below 1/4th before breaking the lock, you will have to restart from the beginning of the chapter.
I think it's easily possible to get Phoenix his badge back, and have him do some cases, and Apollo do some, each of them winning their cases in their own way. (Phoenix is the master at bluffing until someone slips up, while Apollo actually confronts lies spotted by is power head on)
The ONLY way he was able to take down a man who had no qualms about forging convincing evidence was to institute the Jurist system.
The entire storyline of GS4 had major parts of it forced on them. One forced part was to have the Jurist system introduced, and the other part was to have phoenix in. But Phoenix had no motive for bringing it in. Therefore, they had to give Phoenix a motive for introducing it. They had to make it be the ONLY way to take down the guy.
And thus, we have the wallbanger of a story that is GS4. Phoenix had to be disbarred, and it had to be not his fault, and thus a new attorney had to be brought in.
All those big damn heroes moments where someone shows up at the last moment to save you from a gameover are a gameplay mechanic, pure and simple, to catch people who save before every choice. There are a few traps left that they still haven't used, though. Here's one of them. It's really mean, so i dunno if they will use it.
1) have two unavoidable penalties in one case. The first one will be a standard penalty, and the second one will take 3/4ths of the bar. The catch? You have to break a psychelock in the lobby, and if you take the usual method of trying everything because you can't really get a game over in one, you will enter court without enough life to handle the unavoidable penalty. (these penalties will in both cases cause a witness to slip up, revealing the needed info for a further press). If you go down below 1/4th before breaking the lock, you will have to restart from the beginning of the chapter.
I think it's easily possible to get Phoenix his badge back, and have him do some cases, and Apollo do some, each of them winning their cases in their own way. (Phoenix is the master at bluffing until someone slips up, while Apollo actually confronts lies spotted by is power head on)
Yeah, the Jurist system, while a cool plot point, seemed very forced IMO. And the more I think about it, the more I love the idea of Apollo and Phoenix being law partners in GS5. And even if Apollo was the only playable lawyer, you at least know that Phoenix's life isn't in the shithole anymore. And maybe some of Phoenix's friends (Maya, Pearl, Edgeworth, Gumshoe) that may have deserted him thinking he forged evidence (just my theory...) would be brought back! w00t!
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
And maybe some of Phoenix's friends (Maya, Pearl, Edgeworth, Gumshoe) that may have deserted him thinking he forged evidence (just my theory...) would be brought back! w00t!
Why do so many people seem to think that Phoenix's friends deserted him just because they didn't have a point in showing up in AJ...?
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
Quote:
And maybe some of Phoenix's friends (Maya, Pearl, Edgeworth, Gumshoe) that may have deserted him thinking he forged evidence (just my theory...) would be brought back! w00t!
Why do so many people seem to think that Phoenix's friends deserted him just because they didn't have a point in showing up in AJ...?
Because as often as they were in his life in the other games, the fact that they never show up is suspect.
I think Maya is the only one who didn't (because she loves him
), but she has to run the Kurain school. I think the "kid" that Phoenix says keeps sending him the Steel Samurai DVDs. But, I only consider this a theory, because none of them (except Gumshoe) shows up in during the Gramarye case, either.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Maybe the way to do it would be to have Phoenix help in the final, EPIC case.
Although I love Phoenix he does seem to be the master of bluffing his way through trials a lot. :D
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I can see it being that predictable, although I'd like to see something else happen
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Sabrewulf238 wrote:
I bet he'll get himself murdered and become a ghost to help Apollo in cases.
I can see it being that predictable, although I'd like to see something else happen
I can see it being that predictable, although I'd like to see something else happen
Doubt that'll happen....Apollo doesn't know any....spirit mediums who'd stick around with him to transform into Nick whenever.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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A mentor who appears every now and then and helps Apollo with forged evidence but with not much relevancy to the plot.
Well, that's what I think, anyway.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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It would be pretty cool if he ended up like Mia. It would probably piss off a lot of fans if it was just PW:AA copypasta though.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
The same as Mia in JFA.
A mentor who appears every now and then and helps Apollo with forged evidence but with not much relevancy to the plot.
Well, that's what I think, anyway.
A mentor who appears every now and then and helps Apollo with forged evidence but with not much relevancy to the plot.
Well, that's what I think, anyway.
Wouldn't please the fans, it harassed a lot of people enough that he used forged evidence once (although not as 'evidence') and it wouldnt exactly be good for Apollo's career.
Hey check out this murder weapon!
Shouldn't the police have this? They've been looking all over for it....where did you get this.
I have my sources.....
Stranger...
This has 'illegal' written all over it
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
The same as Mia in JFA.
A mentor who appears every now and then and helps Apollo with forged evidence but with not much relevancy to the plot.
Well, that's what I think, anyway.
A mentor who appears every now and then and helps Apollo with forged evidence but with not much relevancy to the plot.
Well, that's what I think, anyway.
Wouldn't please the fans, it harassed a lot of people enough that he used forged evidence once (although not as 'evidence') and it wouldnt exactly be good for Apollo's career.
Hey check out this murder weapon! Shouldn't the police have this? They've been looking all over for it....where did you get this. I have my sources..... Stranger... This has 'illegal' written all over itWell, I meant like he did in 4-1 and 4-3.
Actually, most of the trials he won, he won illegal. The worst examples are 1-5 and 3-3.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Spoiler:
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
The same as Mia in JFA.
A mentor who appears every now and then and helps Apollo with forged evidence but with not much relevancy to the plot.
Well, that's what I think, anyway.
A mentor who appears every now and then and helps Apollo with forged evidence but with not much relevancy to the plot.
Well, that's what I think, anyway.
Well, I meant like he did in 4-1 and 4-3.
Actually, most of the trials he won, he won illegal. The worst examples are 1-5 and 3-3.
In 1-5,
Spoiler:
And in 3-3,
Spoiler:
And furthermore, how is Apollo's "power" any less cheap than Phoenix's bluffing methods?
Apollo essentially carries a lie detector with him everywhere he goes. At least Phoenix had to trip up his witnesses instead of automatically knowing that the witness is lying.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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grim_tales wrote:
I thought Phoenix maybe only called Maya a "kid" in a jokey kind of way
Yeah, he's referencing that Maya may be an adult, but she's still very much a kid on the inside. She even makes him do reports about the episodes he watches. Poor Nick, even seven years later he gets ordered around by Maya. XD
Phoenix becoming a lawyer again would be probably the most ideal thing for him to do, but if that's not a possiblity, perhapes being head of the jurist system or even a private investigator would be fine as well. Just let him do a job that caters to his legal talents so all that experience and what everyone taught him won't go to waste.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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However, I am not anti-Apollo. Far from it. Retiring Apollo after just 1 game would be madness.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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All the same I'd rather Nick wasn't a lawyer again. No matter how the writers do it I feel it'd draw the attention from Apollo who direly needs a game to focus on him for once.
However considering how streetwise Nick has become I think it would be pretty cool if he became a PI.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
All the same I'd rather Nick wasn't a lawyer again. No matter how the writers do it I feel it'd draw the attention from Apollo who direly needs a game to focus on him for once.
I disagree. I believe that forcing Nick out was stupid. Unfortunately for me, Apollo has waaaaaay too many fans to just leave him as a blip in the series. So I'm sticking to my partners idea with Nick and Polly both being playable at different intervals of the game. And since the Magatama apparently only works during investigation, and Polly's bracelet apparently only works in court, maybe Nick could be playable during investigation phases (with Polly or Trucy or Maya in tow), and Polly could be playable in court with Nick as an aide.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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grim_tales wrote:
I think the partners idea is a good one, the writers would have to think of a way to balance it out though. Nick and Apollo fans would both be happy then (if Apollo gets more background/story, I want that as well).
And that's the rub. Phoenix fans (like me) were major pissed when Apollo hijacked the series, but if they dropped Apollo like a bad habit now, then the Apollo fans (such a Lind_L_Tailor) would revolt. Balance is the key. And, as we've seen in Trials & Tribulations, Capcom can successfully balance, not one, but THREE playable characters to great effect. So......here's hoping.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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BlackJack wrote:
grim_tales wrote:
I think the partners idea is a good one, the writers would have to think of a way to balance it out though. Nick and Apollo fans would both be happy then (if Apollo gets more background/story, I want that as well).
And that's the rub. Phoenix fans (like me) were major pissed when Apollo hijacked the series, but if they dropped Apollo like a bad habit now, then the Apollo fans (such a Lind_L_Tailor) would revolt. Balance is the key. And, as we've seen in Trials & Tribulations, Capcom can successfully balance, not one, but THREE playable characters to great effect. So......here's hoping.
I'm sorry....they didn't balance it in trials and tribulations...Mia was most definately a side character she wasn't balanced she was significantly not as important. I feel the same would happen if Nick and Apollo joined up.
Ideally Nick wouldn't have been in AJ1 it woulda given Apollo a bit of freedom rather than being in Nick's shadow.
Besides after Nick became so.....certain and calm in AJ1 I can't ever imagine him freaking out at a penalty in court again.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
BlackJack is better than me at everything including arts & crafts and the guitar. I have no friends.
Well, thank you.
And sorry about that friends thing.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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BlackJack wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Oh my god I almost passed out of my awesomeness and correctness....but I'm too cool to pass out over such a trivial thing
Oh you are so correct Herr Blondie please allow me to bask in your aura of awesomeness and correctness....its....its...so wonderful I'm....
Oh dear it would seem Blackjack passed out, how pitiful.
Don't screw with my posts
Make a meaningful objection in future.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
BlackJack wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Oh my god I almost passed out of my awesomeness and correctness....but I'm too cool to pass out over such a trivial thing
Oh you are so correct Herr Blondie please allow me to bask in your aura of awesomeness and correctness....its....its...so wonderful I'm....
Oh dear it would seem Blackjack passed out, how pitiful.
Don't screw with my posts
Make a meaningful objection in future.I'll joke around, I'm like that.
None of the quotes-screwing-with is meant to be taken seriously.
And your comeback made me lol.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
No prob I just don't like being sidetracked that much....and some people could REALLY harass you with that quote screwing thing.
Well, your objection to my previous statement was all a matter of opinion. So instead of pointlessly arguing a moot point, I deferred to the age-old method of using humor to deflate the situation.
I never thought anyone would actually take it seriously.
I'll keep that in mind....
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Gaah in hindsight your right, everything I said was just opinion. Oh well no worries sorry if I took it too seriously Some subtleties and humors are just wasted on me
Still I'll chillax a bit in future
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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grim_tales wrote:
I think I'd say I'm a Nick and Apollo fan. Can't I be both? :D
YOU CAN!! IT IS POSSIBLE!!
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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grim_tales wrote:
I think I'd say I'm a Nick and Apollo fan. Can't I be both? :D
Sure XD Thats the best stance to be.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I think that AJ was the final curtain on PW. They can't just zoom in a new attorney and expect people to like it. So, they tie in Nick, and explain why he isn't gonna be the main character any more. And now, they're free to have Apollo's back story, future in growing up, ect. Right now, he needs hints, but none of the cases have been really personal. Or rather, they are, but he didn't know it in the beginning. Now, they can add in trials that are really personal to him, or have him make a hard choice.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
BlackJack wrote:
grim_tales wrote:
I think the partners idea is a good one, the writers would have to think of a way to balance it out though. Nick and Apollo fans would both be happy then (if Apollo gets more background/story, I want that as well).
And that's the rub. Phoenix fans (like me) were major pissed when Apollo hijacked the series, but if they dropped Apollo like a bad habit now, then the Apollo fans (such a Lind_L_Tailor) would revolt. Balance is the key. And, as we've seen in Trials & Tribulations, Capcom can successfully balance, not one, but THREE playable characters to great effect. So......here's hoping.
I'm sorry....they didn't balance it in trials and tribulations...Mia was most definately a side character she wasn't balanced she was significantly not as important. I feel the same would happen if Nick and Apollo joined up.
Ideally Nick wouldn't have been in AJ1 it woulda given Apollo a bit of freedom rather than being in Nick's shadow.
Besides after Nick became so.....certain and calm in AJ1 I can't ever imagine him freaking out at a penalty in court again.
Yes but they still tried and it worked good enough.
Oh he wasnt in nick's shadow at all. He didnt get thaught anything by him except how to forge evidence and use his power.
Or was that trucy? Hmm. Both i guess. But anyway he did it all mostly on his own. Despite being a noob.
Thats pretty out there considering his... Situation..I do agree he doesnt have MOST of the spotlight. But it IS on him think about that.
Trashing phenoix wright would be like trashing edgeworth.
Spoiler:
Or rather trashing the entire triology and sole purpose of ace attorney. Who kills old people?
I can imagine Nick in court. Apollo never got a full penalty. NOT ONCE.
And guess what he did to said penalty? He laughed at it and put out the weapon.
Apollo got a nice bar of penalty.. It wasnt full but he stood his ground. so he has potential.
But screw phenoix. We need more apollo. Worry about phenoix later.. he cant die. I mean c'mon capcom already stated this many times. And if you played the games you would know why.
Oh and "or have him make a hard choice." That was already done in PW2 unless you like recycled ideas?? Or just the epicness of said moment?
Heh.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Mr.wise wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
BlackJack wrote:
And that's the rub. Phoenix fans (like me) were major pissed when Apollo hijacked the series, but if they dropped Apollo like a bad habit now, then the Apollo fans (such a Lind_L_Tailor) would revolt. Balance is the key. And, as we've seen in Trials & Tribulations, Capcom can successfully balance, not one, but THREE playable characters to great effect. So......here's hoping.
I'm sorry....they didn't balance it in trials and tribulations...Mia was most definately a side character she wasn't balanced she was significantly not as important. I feel the same would happen if Nick and Apollo joined up.
Ideally Nick wouldn't have been in AJ1 it woulda given Apollo a bit of freedom rather than being in Nick's shadow.
Besides after Nick became so.....certain and calm in AJ1 I can't ever imagine him freaking out at a penalty in court again.
Yes but they still tried and it worked good enough.
Oh he wasnt in nick's shadow at all. He didnt get thaught anything by him except how to forge evidence and use his power.
Or was that trucy? Hmm. Both i guess. But anyway he did it all mostly on his own. Despite being a noob.
Thats pretty out there considering his... Situation..I do agree he doesnt have MOST of the spotlight. But it IS on him think about that.
Trashing phenoix wright would be like trashing edgeworth.
Spoiler:
Or rather trashing the entire triology and sole purpose of ace attorney. Who kills old people?
I can imagine Nick in court. Apollo never got a full penalty. NOT ONCE.
And guess what he did to said penalty? He laughed at it and put out the weapon.
Apollo got a nice bar of penalty.. It wasnt full but he stood his ground. so he has potential.
But screw phenoix. We need more apollo. Worry about phenoix later.. he cant die. I mean c'mon capcom already stated this many times. And if you played the games you would know why.
Oh and "or have him make a hard choice." That was already done in PW2 unless you like recycled ideas?? Or just the epicness of said moment?
Clean-up! Clean-up! Everybody Everywhere!
Your post was difficult to follow. From now on try not to clutter your post so much.
Thanks to Lind_L_Tailor for the badass sig!
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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That would kinda mean he IS in Nick's shadow right?
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