Sailor/school uniform ALA- Sailor Moon?




EDIT: Like this?


(The pic i used wasn't very good. If i can find another i'll try it again.)

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Um...YAY go translation

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Please just play Phoenix Drive. xD

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Ahem. I think we should change the title of this topic right here. Rather, to "What role WILL Pheonix play in GS5?". Capcom have said "whatever the fans want" on numereous interviews all over the place, and considering we're somewhat near the biggest AA fanbase on the net, it would be foolish of them to ignore us. I'll bet a dollar (or pound) that they haven't figured out a plot yet, so if we collectively send them one or two ideas about it...

Yeah, stupid idea. Mind you, it would be cool to see what WE want happen. Rather, not what SHOULD happen to Pheonix but what WILL.

You can continue arguing now.

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Nah uh we fans would royally screw up Phoenix Wright if we had an active role in the development I'm afraid.

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Good luck getting anyone to agree :)

Well put Icer, thats why we can't have fan input.

I know for one I'd fight if it meant stopping fans persuading writers to make EdgeworthxPhoenix a reality.

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Matsukawa already said that would never happen.

We can't have collective fan input, that's for sure. And some ideas people have are awful. Like killing Phoenix. And there are some really stupid ideas.

But I don't know how to contact them anyway. I doubt the Capcom-unity 'feedback' forum is even read by Capcom US, let alone GS developers. Even Croik's merchandise petition there appeared to have no actual result, unless I'm in error. (We're getting the art book, but I'm not sure how related that is, and there's practically no text in it anyway, and the Japanese one is fairly easy to obtain, unlike the stuff on e-capcom, which is the merchandise we want really.)

There are some really good ideas though, as well as awful ones. The multiple endings one is great, as is the Trucy/incuritis idea even if it is sorta similar to 2-4.

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What if Phoenix was the Mia of T&T?
I mean, you play as him in the first case, which will cover up the Tutorial excuse, then you continue to play as Apollo, and in case 5, you play as both, perhaps?

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I like that idea. Yeah, having Phoenix in a mentor/Mia sort of role would keep him in character, you could play as him, and then Apollo for the rest of the game, and that would hopefully satisfy Nick and Apollo fans or those who like both of them (me).
1st case could be Nick retaking the bar, maybe?

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Tutorial yes, final case, no.

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Sorry, you lost your chance for Apollo to 'take over' as main char when they returned Phoenix in such a role to GS4. [Which was stupid, but it's too late as we've discussed ad infinitum.] So no default Phoenix demotion
I don't see how the 'bar exam' can be a case, unless the legal system accreditation there is even more farcical than we've been led to believe. Case 1 is always linked, symbolically or otherwise, to case 4 or 5, kind of a microcosm. And there will be no flashback cases to Phoenix's GS1-3 years, keep in mind. So if Phoenix is playing case 1, it will be connected intrinsically somehow to the final case.

Also keep in mind that GS5 may hybridise with GK and its game mechanics. There might be more of that kind of stuff in investigation phase. Phoenix doesn't need to be a lawyer to investigate. [Flashback investigations in the 7 year gap?]
Disbarring Phoenix for 7 whole years really played havoc with their plotting potentials, now they dragged him into the 'new' arc. Stupid, really.

Oh and hopefully since they invented proper game mechanics for GK, there will be no more 'Mason System' type idiocy.

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Alright, I'm fine with him not being in the Final Case.
Maybe Trucy would be like 'Daddy! Do you want to hear how Polly does it?' For a tutorial excuse.
Then you get the option on whether you want to hear.

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Wrong.
Sure fine don't give him a tutorial trial, I was trying to compromise my dislike of Phoenix being playable by letting him have that.
But you claim case one is always important?
*Ahem* Case 2-1 how's that connected?

And I think that due to completely different nature of AAI they'll keep it exclusive to that series so they don't intermingle to prevent any confusion.

But yes we've all agreed bringing Nick into it was stupid.

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Case 1 isn't always connected tp the others. OK it was in T&T and AJ, but not in JFA or PW:AA.

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2-1 is more tenuous to 2-4, but observe how it begins with that dream foreshadowing Phoenix's dilemma in 2-4 - you're not fit to be a lawyer anymore! Who is he, and what does it mean to be a lawyer! It's the same question he faces in 2-4 in 2-1, except that the amnesia triggers it the first time. Also, just like 2-4, Maya is absent for half the case before returning with the crucial evidence, like she gives him the evidence in 2-4 [but every other case too really]. And there is a sinister phone/phone call, just like in 2-4. HOTLINE OF FATE. And things are made unfair by the criminal, a hostile influence outside the justice system rigging against Phoenix [hitting Phoenix on the head and stealing his phone~= blackmailing him by kidnapping Maya]

1-1 is so a microcosm of 1-4. Just like 1-4, it's Phoenix rescuing one of his 4th grade friends who believed in him during the class trial so he's repaying the favour, total foreshadowing.

They would be insane not to reuse parts of AAI's upgraded game mechanic. I don't mean branded GK. But in terms of gameplay, it's not a spinoff, it's next gen GS. [Obviously GS5 would have the courtroom components of a GS game.]

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That's interesting icer, I never thought of them like that - although the storylines of those cases aren't connected per se.
I like reading your posts as they're very interesting,

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Your connections between 2-4 and 2-1 are laughable Icer. The stuff your suggesting is as simple as a matching colour scheme in a film. By connections between cases 1 and final case I assumed you'd mean something like 3-1's case where Mia gets Dahlia the death sentence and saves Phoenix and 3-5 where Dahlia is back from the dead to take revenge on the Fey family for it. Somehow just because 2-1 and 2-4 both involve phone calls doesn't make any serious connection. And hostile influences outside the Jurist system? Remember Furio Tigre attacking him, Karma tasering him taking his evidence, Kristoph rigging his trial by setting him up.

The things you suggest are just elements commonly reused in GS I mean...you mention the hotline of Fate....plenty of times calls and stuff are dramatic. Larry calling Edgeworth to inform him of Nick's situation. Maya calling Phoenix to tell her about such and such arrests.

The dream sequence I agree, is a connection but it's got nothing whatsoever to do with the case just a little out of court story no case connections.

But I think it should be kept a brand for GK the cool sideways set up, otherwise I feel I may miss the front-view style.

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A colour scheme is nothing like a fundamental core theme. Who is he, and what does it mean to be a lawyer! And why are you mentioning juries in GS2? And this is the time of day when I should be asleep.

Thank you.

I said that was the one thing you had, and it has nothing to do with the case seeing as he forgets everything about being a lawyer when he wakes up. The dream has no affect on Nick's feelings or the outcome of case 2-1.

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He remembers having the dream though before, "some time ago". Don't most people forget their dreams soon after they wake up?

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That can vary, I can remember my dream from two nights ago with some clarity.

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Guess it depends what it it is then.

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Dreams are a result of your subconscious mind, and no doubt that was affected in 2-1 and even 2-4 by the dream and the issues related to it. And the whole amnesia thing and forgetting results in him facing the same key question he faces in 2-4, of who he is and what it means to be a lawyer et al.

Tell me this then, how did the dream affect case 2-1.
There is nothing in Case 2-1 that affected Case 2-4. The Dream happens in Case 2-1 but Nick has no recollection of it for the trial so it has no affect on it. The Dream happens in case 2-4 but its little more than a recurring theme it doesn't contribute seriously to the case.

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I agree. It does tie in with the theme of 2-4 and what it means etc, but thats about it.

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Not like the actual effects of other cases like say 4-1 and 4-4 or 3-1 and 3-5

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Correct. I agree with that :)

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So what? Case 1 is connected, thematically and otherwise, to the final case. I never said it had to directly influence its outcome. And as you just listed, it's an increasing trend in the recent games to have them even closer connected to the final case. [And I haven't spoiled myself on GK, but I wouldn't be surprised if case 1 of that is closely connected to the final case. We'll see, but that's a side series anyway.]

Heh if thats all your arguing I'm not worried
You wanna settle for pathetic symbolic links? Sure it is, it means nothing really the link is so tiny and small it don't matter.
There's one tiny connection between 2-1 and 2-4.
Frankly if they try and pull a connection so small between GK1 and GK finale I'll be disappointed.

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Doesn't matter to what?
You haven't defined what you're so eager to argue about, and even 'hope' it will continue on the GS3/4 'even more intrinsically connected' trend...

And I used the Angel smiley instead of the Ema one because I remembered how you hate Ema :)

Oh thanks Ema is a pain in the ass

But I just feel that 2-1 and 2-4 were unconnected and even poorly connected with your point.

With connections between cases I expect something a little more.... substantial you know? Something that means something.

Your connection to me appears to be like........the fact a gun is used in multiple cases as a connection.
I guess I'm just not satisfied with your claim that they are conected just because of this sorry.

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Sorry, but 2-1 and 2-4 are Really badly connected. D:
And you have to admit that 1-1 does not connect to 1-4 in any way. Sorry.

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Now that I think about it, I just want Wright to have the same good character depth and personality as in Apollo Justice. Having some sort of legal position would be interesting as long as it doesn't take away from his AJ characterization. Going back to say T&T Wright wouldn't be that good an idea since there's nothing you can continue with the PW arc storyline.

Apollo can work in the office Wright and Trucy owns till the end of GS5. I know that Apollo was underdeveloped in AJ but now that Phoenix's situation is all cleared up he can be developed, espicially if they want to develop Apollo over time in two other games. Wright can still act as Apollo's true mentor.

You guys should give Icer a little more thought. Although I wouldn’t go far as to call the opening cases a microcosm of their respective games, they certainly do introduce thematic plot elements important to the series as a whole. A recurring motif for the first three games is the concept of nosce te ipsum, or Latin for “Know Thyself”. This sort of introspection is widely used in literary works, fiction and non-fiction alike. From Plato’s cave allegory to the Spider Man and Matrix movies. In a philosophical sense, it’s also something we as individuals must contend with in our real lives, although most of us don’t spend too much time thinking about it. It’s the type of self-conflict where the subject must tackle questions such as “who am I?”, "what do I want?", “why am I doing this?” and the often overused “what am I fighting for?” In the context of the GS series, I feel its best summed up in the following dialog between Miles and Phoenix:

Edgeworth: That's not something I can answer for you... Wright... Only you can decide where to go from here. One year ago... At that time, I didn't truly understand what a "prosecutor" was. And that is why... I had to leave the Prosecutor's Office. I felt that I couldn't stand in a court of law until I knew what a prosecutor really was. And now, Wright... It's your turn.

Phoenix: My... Turn?

Edgeworth: What is this thing called a "lawyer"? What can you do as one? You must find the answer... And you must find it on your own.

In fact, Miles’ whole character development centers on the “Knowing thyself” theme. When we first meet him in GS1, Miles was pretty much a copy of his mentor, Manfred—a cold, calculating perfectionist. It’s not until the conclusion of 1-4 and 1-5 where Miles has a bit of an identity crisis that he’s forced to answer the above-mentioned personal questions. Will he continue down Manfred’s path, knowing first hand the madness and depravity that would result? Also, 1-5 showed that without conviction and a sense of self, even the strong could succumb to corruption; Gant warned that Miles would become “just like him”. For these reasons Miles leaves on a journey of “self discovery” to find for himself what being a prosecutor meant. The whole theme of “Edgeworth chooses death” and the subsequent “great revival” is plastered all over the second game.

Introspection is also key to Phoenix’s character as well. In fact, 2-1 practically spells it out for you. After a creepy dream where he’s no longer deemed worthy of being a lawyer, Phoenix literally forgets everything (by being knocked on the head) and has to start from scratch. Not only did the amnesia serve as a plot device to justify the tutorial case, it’s also greatly symbolic to the whole “self discovery” motif. With amnesia you’re forced to find out who you really are. In 2-4, after Miles’ return, Phoenix comes to his answer and figures out what being an attorney meant to him. If that isn’t a connection I don’t know what is. Phoenix’s development continues until the climax of 3-5 where he achieves the status of Uberlawyer: Mia comments that he’s surpassed everyone else and embodies what a truly great attorney should be. This of course, makes his fall from grace in GS4 all that more bitterly ironic. In fact, both recurring characters underwent ironic transformations and lost a portion of their identities. Phoenix is no longer a lawyer and his moral compass has degraded and Ema is not the scientific investigator that she had hoped to become.

Of course, I’m not implying that there’s anything wrong with that. Well written characters are full of flaws, face conflicts, change and develop because of them. This is in contrast to one dimensional, gimmicky characters that don’t change or are portrayed as always perfect (a bane of the fanfic writing community, see Mary-Sues). I was actually relieved to find out that Phoenix and Ema weren’t clones of their former selves and had undergone change. Where they take Phoenix is GS5 is anyone’s guess.

Anyhow, to sum it up, to an extent Icer is correct, all the X-1 cases have elements that foreshadow and connect to later cases. 1-1 being the weakest, but hey, it was the first case and had to serve more as an introduction and exposition to the gameplay rather than the plot. GS4 shifts the theme from personal introspection to the validity and meaning of law; the Judge’s epic quote at the end summarizes it up nicely. I haven’t fully spoiled myself on GK so I don’t know what underlying themes are present there, if any. I read some reviews that complained that GK spent too much time on fan service and not enough on character development.

Sorry for the off-topicness of this post, I just felt like the issue had to be addressed. It’s worth noting that all of this was mentioned and discussed earlier on these forums; I recall reading a similar discussion that took place months ago. Things tend to happen in cycles … Anyway, there are a lot of things that I don’t agree with Icer on, however, I respect the fact that he (or she?) will take the time to spell out and argue his viewpoints instead of posting snide one-liners.

I think Phoenix wouldn't be in GS5, i think he just go with Trucy touring all over the world, because Trucy got her rights to perform magic, as Trucy Gramarye. The Next Apollo's assistant gonna be Pearl, and the first case is that Pearl never entered the court before, so Apollo explain to her how the gameplay system is.

The prosecutor is reincarnation of Maya Fey.

AHHH WALL OF TEXT!!!!!!!

Still not enough, sure it's self discovery as he's learning to be a lawyer again, but I never examined Phoenix Wright on a level as deep as this so I never cared, sure Nick has to discover what being a lawyer is but while the concept is introduced I'm betting most folk wouldn't think of it as connected.

The self-discovery element (on a deep level) only comes into it seriously with the climactic decision in 2-4 really, whereas 2-1 is him just learning how to be a lawyer....not considering what it means to be a lawyer.

also @D_Albertz Ummm Pearl has been in court before but I seriously hope the Fey's stay out of it.

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I suppose its all a matter of opinion and interpretation really.

You’re right, one doesn’t have to view and analyze a production in loldeep levels in order to appreciate it. We all read books, watch movies and play games for different reasons and take what we want out of it. The thing is, audiences of all types benefit from complete and in-depth writing regardless if we care for such things or not. Most people can tell the difference between crappy writing and decent writing. Well-planned development resonates with audiences as a well-written, identifiable, likable character. Although that’s not always the case, our personal preferences still play a strong role in deciding if we like and/or care about a character. A well-written annoying prick is still an annoying prick. For you, I’m betting that character is , as for me, I never really cared for . Anyway, there’s a good reason why flat, soulless MarySues are universally panned.


I see no difference. Learning the basics will eventually lead into the question of what it means to be a lawyer. It took a rather big system shock to finally get Miles to stop parroting others and to consider himself.

I’m just curious on what you consider to be a solid connection. If symbolism, allegory, thematic undertones and foreshadowing aren’t, what is?

Connections for me are simple cause and effect things, strong ones like seeing Mia Fey get Dahlia the death sentence leading her to breathe hatred for the Fey's in the afterlife manifesting in the motives behind case 3-5 you see?

Or the connections between 4-1 and 4-5 where we revist and reveal Shadi's backstory and stuff and explore Kristoph's other crimes revealed in 4-1.

Thats my idea of a connection.
With a theme or allegory....it's something that runs through the entire thing in my opinion. You assign a book themes, or themes to a film, you don't use them as connections because I expect them to be guaranteed to be in it. For me it'd be like a Phoenix Wright game without Nick if people treated themes as some kinda connection it'd be like OMG this game has themes? I expect there to be themes I don't consider them anything special, rather a simple component of the big picture.

And I'm not sure about something thats been written well always generating better audience enjoyment. Personally I find some of the worst writing generates better entertainment value for me....based on the terrible quality Godzilla VS King Kong which was freaking brilliant to enjoy.

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