Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
Saying it is simple isn't really nice.
Since you don't have to deal with the rendering, input and such it looks simpler, sure. As I developed AIGE also, I know how painful it is.
The same applies to PyWright.
I think that AADS won't come close to the level of customization and extendability as PWLib and PyWright have at the moment, but it will be a good port-type casemaker to allow decent cases to be built first over PWLib and PyWright then played over the DS, if the features allow.
It would be nice to see a PWLib game on the DS too, of course, so both would benefit for example.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
Independent Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Quebradillas, PR
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:24 am
Posts: 3
On a technical note: B12, you need not reduce the MP3s to 56kbps. If you encode at 128kbps at 22050Hz, they will work fine in ASlib. I use this technique all the time; razorlame is a good tool to have handy for this purpose.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
KSA_Tech wrote:
Like I said, the earlier part of a PW engine is simple, but certain things get very complicated.
Saying it is simple isn't really nice.
Since you don't have to deal with the rendering, input and such it looks simpler, sure. As I developed AIGE also, I know how painful it is.
The same applies to PyWright.
I think that AADS won't come close to the level of customization and extendability as PWLib and PyWright have at the moment, but it will be a good port-type casemaker to allow decent cases to be built first over PWLib and PyWright then played over the DS, if the features allow.
It would be nice to see a PWLib game on the DS too, of course, so both would benefit for example.
Saying it is simple isn't really nice.
Since you don't have to deal with the rendering, input and such it looks simpler, sure. As I developed AIGE also, I know how painful it is.
The same applies to PyWright.
I think that AADS won't come close to the level of customization and extendability as PWLib and PyWright have at the moment, but it will be a good port-type casemaker to allow decent cases to be built first over PWLib and PyWright then played over the DS, if the features allow.
It would be nice to see a PWLib game on the DS too, of course, so both would benefit for example.
KSA, I realize that you are now talking about AIGE. I know you don't believe that I can make a detailed, length casemaker, but just like you, in due time, I will have one ready. You spend a long(? I don't know, you make it seem like you spent a long time) time working on yours, and therefore I will probably be spending an equal amount of time working on mine. I don't realize why you brought up AIGE, because it has nothing to do with my project. I've spent a limited amount of hours on this project, therefore leading you to believe that I don't have the capability to develop a casemaker. You can rest assured, however, that such a task will be complete and it will "come close to the level of customization and extendability as PWLib and PyWright have at the moment".
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
A casemaker in the sense of it (non-PWLib styled, where you can add anything in the any order) is doable, as I said. Something like AIGE and PyWright b11 hits the memory tail, since once you allow the developer to drop all kinds of variables and objects, memory gets an issue quickly.
Making a simple script language targeted to PW is perfectly possible.
AIGE is the backengine for PWLib, and it provides all the power for PWLib. PWLib by itself is just an empty shell without it to fuel things.
And as ask you again: how far have you gotten with PWLib?
As I recall, you posted earlier "i can't do the fade effect" (or something to that effect).
Before saying things, certain people need to see it all. PWLib is not really what I could call something amazing if you look at it by itself. There are something behind it that really makes it really amazing. I have zero intention to program on the DS just because of PWLib. I have no intention to even try to start some kind of war, I'm sick of those things.
I just will use facts to comment things.
I have no reason to be against a casemaker that is not even released (and isn't even confirmed that will be done). Even if it does, it won't be an issue since PWLib won't be guided by it. Since I stopped targeting PyWright, I decided to sit and program what I miss to win in peace. Even so, sometimes I will have more important things and it will take a longer road.
PWLib is PC-targeted, so it will be PC-targeted no matter how things go. If in case people abandon it, I'll keep developing it in peace and leave CR. Nothing to be preoccupaid about. PWLib gave me a lot of headache and I don't want to have any more of it. All I want is people to respect all the work that was put into it. PWLib does provide a layer of tools that PyWright for example don't provide, but it is harder than the latter.
Every program to its use, as I say.
The best scenario would be this:
Game A gets developed over PWLib/PyWright. If Game A is quality and very well received, it gets a DS port over AADS. This would be beneficial for both sides, and no one's work would be wasted.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
Having said that, why is it that you feel the need to use your "facts" to paint every casemaker except yours in the most negative light possible? I really don't understand. Your casemaker is indeed the best there is IMO, and it will stay that way EVEN IF you don't hijack every thread with your "Interesting project, but here are my 10 points about why my casemaker is better, and by the way, you should use mine before anyone else's" posts. You'll get more personal respect if you give more. Of course, if you don't care about personal respect, then I'm sorry I even said anything. You definitely have my respect for the work you've done and the professional product you've made.
At any rate, I'm just as excited to see this develop as I was to see the beginnings of PyWright and PWLib. But what I'm most looking forward to is the games. Good luck to all with their awesome projects <3
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
Quote:
I know this question is going to be really fuckin annoying for most of you but does it seem like a better idea to be generating these cases ON the DS platform instead of writing a bunch of untangible code and then wrapping/porting it to the DS? As of now I have a DS for testing purposes. No games, so I'm now a bit familiar with the Nintendo BIOS. I notice this thing supports drag-and-drop. Download Play looks interesting and I already have a few expectations how the casemaker should really be all because this feature exists.
I just pointed the ups of the pc casemakers (read: PWLib and PyWright). And why I can't do that?
If it is for me and saluk (and unas) to simply give up once the first version of this is done, I think it is a respect issue that will happen. And if things point that way, I will take the train and leave CR forever.
I didn't bring up PWLib is the best, and as I said, it is community based, not my random opinion based. B1Core was the one who said it earlier, when I was pointing about both PWLib and PyWright. So I wasn't saying "PWLib owns" or anything. I said "PC Casemakers". So reading things before saying the same thing again is recommended. I guess this time I'm not promoting PWLib at all in this.
And why would I go to a topic of a casemaker that isn't even done to promote PWLib if I hold the larger share of games been worked under PWLib?
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
Doesn't mean I think you're "not promoting PWLib at all this time," though. I was gonna point out a bunch of the arrogant things you did in this thread. However, that's proven to not be productive at all in the past, so I'd better just shut up now and learn to live with what I perceive to be your character flaws. You are, after all, one of the most respected authorities on casemakers, so you've earned a little arrogance. I'll just go back to lurking and not stir up any more trouble
[EDIT] I do feel like responding one of the things you've said: Do you really believe people are going to forget PWLib or PyWright just because a DS casemaker comes out? Your casemaker is awesome, and can do so much. Why would you threaten to "ride the train out of CR forever" just because of the opinions of 1 or 2 people here? I sincerely hope you don't leave, you're one of the backbones of this forum section and PW fangames in general. [/EDIT]
[EDIT 2] I was reading this thread, trying to figure out what got you so mad at B12 that you told him he's talking like he's going to own the world, and I came across this statement he made:
B12Core wrote:
In fact, you wouldn't even need to keep PWLib or PYWright available.
I'm pretty sure that, in the context, he wasn't saying that your casemaker should go away. He was responding to your statement that the games should be developed for a PC Casemaker first, THEN ported to DS. I can't be sure of what he meant, of course, but I'm fairly certain he was just trying to say that his casemaker could be used to make a case without having to rely on your casemaker. Which makes sense, the same way a PWLib case can be made without making it on PyWright first. I can definitely see why this statement made you feel angry, though, and it makes a lot of the things you've said in this thread make a lot more sense if you felt B12 was trying to say you should drop PWLib. Maybe some clarification from B12 could be made here? [/EDIT 2] One more thing, though: I'm really looking forward to the first demo, B12! Don't let the criticism get you down, there are just many people here who are excited about seeing stuff like this come together, and want to share their opinions. Some just are more polite about sharing those opinions than others ;) Good luck, can't wait to be playing the first AADS fancase <3
Last edited by Shinkinrui on Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
Sometimes I end up looking arrogant, and some of these I didn't want to.
Everyone has flaws, I have mime, B12Core has his and saluk too as well.
I do believe that people will flock over this casemaker once its is released, ignoring PWLib and PyWright no matter how good and better both are in case.
If PWLib gets forgotten, I would be away from CR a long time earlier. I have no reason to be on CR if no one likes me much (due to how I comment things) and PWLib is not used/supported.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
B12Core thinks he will easily make AADS and that it will be as PWLib is in no time. That is the idea I get from what he posts. It's like "KSA, you are stupid, it is real easy and you still took ages!".
I really feel that B12Core didn't really saw PWLib or PyWright in full action.
I hope that people do use PWLib, and it is like it is today even when AADS is released. If not, well, sayonara, CR. I won't be on a war just because of it, since no one will take my side.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
Independent Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Quebradillas, PR
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:24 am
Posts: 3
The two can coexist peacefully without this ever being an issue. Besides, what's easy for one is difficult for another. You don't know if B12 is a good coder or not. You assume that just because it was difficult for you that it must be difficult for others. Maybe he will blow through it like nobody's business. No one is denying that your contributions are valuable, but don't underestimate others'.
And I see you saying "goodbye CR" a whole lot. That's a strategy used by arrogant people who believe themselves to be superior and their presence somewhere is somehow vital to that place's continued existence. You might want to tone it down a bit.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
I never said it isn't possible. Coexist is possible, but think about it for a while. I find AHLSL very simple, while others find it very hard, it's something that it is up to the user. Every mind, every vision.
I didn't underestimate it at all. He might or might not do it all, who knows. But it is real about the memory limitation. He faced memory problems earlier if I recall. Making a casemaker in the idea that PyWright is now on b10 is very much something possible, but now expand the idea to hold an object rendering system. If you allow the developer to generate new screens for example, he/she would need to take care of the memory issue. That's why I mention the level of PWLib and PyWright b11. If you don't know, PWLib's core is AHLSL, thus you can do more then PW, witch means object manipulation for example. Same applies to PyWright b11.
If no one goes using PWLib, I'll leave CR, since there's no reason to stay. That's not related to be arrogant. CR has PyWright, so it won't be PWLib fading away that will make the forum section blow up and dissipate. I recall I'm not much welcome here for a while, since I tend to say what I think, so when I go, many people will be happy (maybe you included). I was the pioneer into developing a full, complete casemaker, but it really doesn't matter: I don't see any of my supporters lending me a hand when I'm attacked, for example. See the pont the Shiki posted. No one came and said something against B12Core's comment.
I could say many people underestimate PWLib and AIGE by extend. It's a matter of location, location, location.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
Mr. Ygrrjfjdosowhatever
Gender: Male
Location: The United States of America
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 609
KSA, you don't need to get so fired up. There's plenty of people using PWLib, because its pretty much agreed that PWLib is the best casemaker around. Other casemakers like PyWright and AADS have their ups and downs, but there's no way they'll ever replace your work. You seem to have the (unrealistic) fear that people will just stop using the program that you've worked so hard on.KSA_Tech wrote:
If it is for me and saluk (and unas) to simply give up once the first version of this is done, I think it is a respect issue that will happen. And if things point that way, I will take the train and leave CR forever.
KSA_Tech wrote:
I hope that people do use PWLib, and it is like it is today even when AADS is released. If not, well, sayonara, CR.
KSA_Tech wrote:
If no one goes using PWLib, I'll leave CR, since there's no reason to stay.
Seriously, man, you've got nothing to worry about!
Like you, many (including myself) have invested their time in PWLib working to learn how to use it and make cases with it. They're not just going to forget about it and move on to a new casemaker that's just getting started. PWLib, PyWright, and AADS can all exist and all be fine case makers. For me, its a matter of preference, and the case maker that I find to be the best overall is your own PWLib.P.S. And what do you mean, "no one likes me much"?
Myself and numerous others not only like but hold the utmost respect for you, and don't forget it! 
P.S.S. Sorry for the excessive postscripting, but you seemed to have noticed that people (besides me) don't seem to be coming to your defense. Well, maybe that's just because they care so little about AADS as to have not noticed this thread.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
KSA_Tech wrote:
Not using it is the same as forgetting about it. It is the same thing. I don't want to be only remembered as "the pwlib developer", but to see it in action. Without it, there's no reason for PWLib to exist.
B12Core thinks he will easily make AADS and that it will be as PWLib is in no time. That is the idea I get from what he posts. It's like "KSA, you are stupid, it is real easy and you still took ages!".
I really feel that B12Core didn't really saw PWLib or PyWright in full action.
I hope that people do use PWLib, and it is like it is today even when AADS is released. If not, well, sayonara, CR. I won't be on a war just because of it, since no one will take my side.
B12Core thinks he will easily make AADS and that it will be as PWLib is in no time. That is the idea I get from what he posts. It's like "KSA, you are stupid, it is real easy and you still took ages!".
I really feel that B12Core didn't really saw PWLib or PyWright in full action.
I hope that people do use PWLib, and it is like it is today even when AADS is released. If not, well, sayonara, CR. I won't be on a war just because of it, since no one will take my side.
Again, I apologize for saying the statement quoted by Shinkinrui, I don't even remember posting that, I must have been quite enraged at that point of time.
However, I do not or never have felt that you, KSA, were stupid or the fact that AIGE took you ages. I just do not feel that one should be so negative on a thread where I simply just want to develop and distribute a community-based project such as this. I am sorry for any offense you may have taken and the statement before. I shouldn't have said that, and please direct me to the post where I said this. Thank you.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
@Shinkinrui:
I knew the statement felt weird. I didn't see myself or even remembered making a statement in that context.
B12Core wrote:
KSA_Tech wrote:
Hmmm, interesting.
My opinion about this project is that if it pulls off and works, it will be the bridge for fangames once first developed over PWLib and PyWright to the DS, in a very similar fashion to Remnants of the Past.
A version will be developed over PWLib or PyWright then some games will be ported to the DS via this casemaker. This would widen the availability of a game, since you could play it on the DS anywhere, but keeping the reach of the PC with the PWLib/PyWright version for those who don't have a DS/don't have the needed card/can't access the DS on a moment.
My opinion about this project is that if it pulls off and works, it will be the bridge for fangames once first developed over PWLib and PyWright to the DS, in a very similar fashion to Remnants of the Past.
A version will be developed over PWLib or PyWright then some games will be ported to the DS via this casemaker. This would widen the availability of a game, since you could play it on the DS anywhere, but keeping the reach of the PC with the PWLib/PyWright version for those who don't have a DS/don't have the needed card/can't access the DS on a moment.
In fact, you wouldn't even need to keep PWLib or PYWright available. The way the casemaker works is it will just read from a .ini file, which only requires 1 file, rather than an external library of images and sounds. This means that people can just open a no$gba or any emulator and run that 1 file to play.
This quote shows the context in which the statement was used. I only meant that you did not need to develop it in PWLib or PYWright and then convert it into the .ini file. Rather, you would just start from scratch using the .ini file itself. I apologize for any misunderstanding caused by this statement. It was never intended to mean:
Shinkinrui wrote:
B12 that you told him he's talking like he's going to own the world
@KSA_Tech:
KSA_Tech wrote:
See the pont the Shiki posted. No one came and said something against B12Core's comment.
Read please. The point stated was not meant to insult you or PYWright. In fact, stating that one should first develop it in your engine, then convert it to mine seems rather unethical.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
Mr. Ygrrjfjdosowhatever
Gender: Male
Location: The United States of America
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 609
B12Core wrote:
Actually:
@Shinkinrui:
I knew the statement felt weird. I didn't see myself or even remembered making a statement in that context.
In fact, you wouldn't even need to keep PWLib or PYWright available. The way the casemaker works is it will just read from a .ini file, which only requires 1 file, rather than an external library of images and sounds. This means that people can just open a no$gba or any emulator and run that 1 file to play.
This quote shows the context in which the statement was used. I only meant that you did not need to develop it in PWLib or PYWright and then convert it into the .ini file. Rather, you would just start from scratch using the .ini file itself. I apologize for any misunderstanding caused by this statement. It was never intended to mean:
@KSA_Tech:
Read please. The point stated was not meant to insult you or PYWright. In fact, stating that one should first develop it in your engine, then convert it to mine seems rather unethical.
@Shinkinrui:
I knew the statement felt weird. I didn't see myself or even remembered making a statement in that context.
B12Core wrote:
KSA_Tech wrote:
Hmmm, interesting.
My opinion about this project is that if it pulls off and works, it will be the bridge for fangames once first developed over PWLib and PyWright to the DS, in a very similar fashion to Remnants of the Past.
A version will be developed over PWLib or PyWright then some games will be ported to the DS via this casemaker. This would widen the availability of a game, since you could play it on the DS anywhere, but keeping the reach of the PC with the PWLib/PyWright version for those who don't have a DS/don't have the needed card/can't access the DS on a moment.
My opinion about this project is that if it pulls off and works, it will be the bridge for fangames once first developed over PWLib and PyWright to the DS, in a very similar fashion to Remnants of the Past.
A version will be developed over PWLib or PyWright then some games will be ported to the DS via this casemaker. This would widen the availability of a game, since you could play it on the DS anywhere, but keeping the reach of the PC with the PWLib/PyWright version for those who don't have a DS/don't have the needed card/can't access the DS on a moment.
In fact, you wouldn't even need to keep PWLib or PYWright available. The way the casemaker works is it will just read from a .ini file, which only requires 1 file, rather than an external library of images and sounds. This means that people can just open a no$gba or any emulator and run that 1 file to play.
This quote shows the context in which the statement was used. I only meant that you did not need to develop it in PWLib or PYWright and then convert it into the .ini file. Rather, you would just start from scratch using the .ini file itself. I apologize for any misunderstanding caused by this statement. It was never intended to mean:
Shinkinrui wrote:
B12 that you told him he's talking like he's going to own the world
@KSA_Tech:
KSA_Tech wrote:
See the pont the Shiki posted. No one came and said something against B12Core's comment.
Read please. The point stated was not meant to insult you or PYWright. In fact, stating that one should first develop it in your engine, then convert it to mine seems rather unethical.
"Unethical"? You're apologizing for a previous misunderstanding because of a poor choice of words, which makes rather humorous (no offense) that while in the process of doing so you have once again made a bit of a poor choice of words. Maybe "unneccesary" would be more appropriate?
unethical - not conforming to agreed standards of moral conduct
unnecessary - not essential, needed, or required
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
There is no way to be a peaceful coexistence since there will be dispute. I will develop PWLib to be the best, no matter what. And you presumably will do the same. So, how it will be something that can coexist?
Suppose PWLib to be the best. On your logic, PWLib users won't develop anywhere. So you lose users and very few will use your AADS.
So, the only peaceful solution is that a game gets into both ways. The game gets a PC version initially then a DS version, so both sides would be pleased. If you can guess a way that it is different, let me know. I, as a developer, won't let AADS to be better then PWLib. It is instinctive as a developer. I just didn't came this far to lose to AADS.
--------------------
And to a point, the line is really insulting, since it means "use AADS, don't use PWLib/PyWright". If people noticed, I always said "Use in both".
--------------------
If we look at it, PWLib and PyWright are same platform solutions. Making a game over PyWright then PWLib would really be overkill. But making the same game over PWLib and then over AADS wouldn't be, since both target DIFFERENT PLATFORMS.
My idea is that good games get both versions. If you don't comply to it, well, there will be competition and probably war over it, since it is natural to competing developer to fight over it.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
I'd say
Gender: Male
Location: Belgium
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 10:49 am
Posts: 2480
Urrgh...
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
Mr. Ygrrjfjdosowhatever
Gender: Male
Location: The United States of America
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 609
KSA_Tech wrote:
Now lets analyze it patiently and unbiasedly:
There is no way to be a peaceful coexistence since there will be dispute. I will develop PWLib to be the best, no matter what. And you presumably will do the same. So, how it will be something that can coexist?
Suppose PWLib to be the best. On your logic, PWLib users won't develop anywhere. So you lose users and very few will use your AADS.
So, the only peaceful solution is that a game gets into both ways. The game gets a PC version initially then a DS version, so both sides would be pleased. If you can guess a way that it is different, let me know. I, as a developer, won't let AADS to be better then PWLib. It is instinctive as a developer. I just didn't came this far to lose to AADS.
--------------------
And to a point, the line is really insulting, since it means "use AADS, don't use PWLib/PyWright". If people noticed, I always said "Use in both".
--------------------
If we look at it, PWLib and PyWright are same platform solutions. Making a game over PyWright then PWLib would really be overkill. But making the same game over PWLib and then over AADS wouldn't be, since both target DIFFERENT PLATFORMS.
My idea is that good games get both versions. If you don't comply to it, well, there will be competition and probably war over it, since it is natural to competing developer to fight over it.
There is no way to be a peaceful coexistence since there will be dispute. I will develop PWLib to be the best, no matter what. And you presumably will do the same. So, how it will be something that can coexist?
Suppose PWLib to be the best. On your logic, PWLib users won't develop anywhere. So you lose users and very few will use your AADS.
So, the only peaceful solution is that a game gets into both ways. The game gets a PC version initially then a DS version, so both sides would be pleased. If you can guess a way that it is different, let me know. I, as a developer, won't let AADS to be better then PWLib. It is instinctive as a developer. I just didn't came this far to lose to AADS.
--------------------
And to a point, the line is really insulting, since it means "use AADS, don't use PWLib/PyWright". If people noticed, I always said "Use in both".
--------------------
If we look at it, PWLib and PyWright are same platform solutions. Making a game over PyWright then PWLib would really be overkill. But making the same game over PWLib and then over AADS wouldn't be, since both target DIFFERENT PLATFORMS.
My idea is that good games get both versions. If you don't comply to it, well, there will be competition and probably war over it, since it is natural to competing developer to fight over it.
Well, I agree that this is the best way to avoid conflict. Plus, this adds the advantage of increased accessibilty: you can play a multiplatform case such as this even if you don't have a good computer or if you don't have the right kind of SD card. The disadvantage would just be that the programmer would need to learn how to use multiple casemakers in order to make his case for both platforms.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
@YggdrasilsSword
Remember the advent of conversion.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
Mr. Ygrrjfjdosowhatever
Gender: Male
Location: The United States of America
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 609
KSA_Tech wrote:
@YggdrasilsSword
Remember the advent of conversion.
Remember the advent of conversion.
Um... alright.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
And as I mentioned on my previous post, there are possible solutions.
But in all of them, I won't let AADS be better then PWLib. Developers feelings.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
KSA_Tech wrote:
There's always a solution for everything. Be it good, be it bad.
And as I mentioned on my previous post, there are possible solutions.
But in all of them, I won't let AADS be better then PWLib. Developers feelings.
And as I mentioned on my previous post, there are possible solutions.
But in all of them, I won't let AADS be better then PWLib. Developers feelings.
How about you let me do my work and don't involve yourself into problems that can be avoided. Thank you.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
Independent Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Quebradillas, PR
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:24 am
Posts: 3
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
Thanks for the clarification. If you'll notice, in my post, I said exactly the same thing:
Shinkinrui wrote:
[EDIT 2] I was reading this thread, trying to figure out what got you so mad at B12 that you told him he's talking like he's going to own the world, and I came across this statement he made:
B12Core wrote:
In fact, you wouldn't even need to keep PWLib or PYWright available.
I'm pretty sure that, in the context, he wasn't saying that your casemaker should go away. He was responding to your statement that the games should be developed for a PC Casemaker first, THEN ported to DS. I can't be sure of what he meant, of course, but I'm fairly certain he was just trying to say that his casemaker could be used to make a case without having to rely on your casemaker. Which makes sense, the same way a PWLib case can be made without making it on PyWright first. I can definitely see why this statement made you feel angry, though, and it makes a lot of the things you've said in this thread make a lot more sense if you felt B12 was trying to say you should drop PWLib. Maybe some clarification from B12 could be made here? [/EDIT 2]I was really trying to understand why KSA was being so bullish and aggressive, and thought maybe he misconstrued what you were saying. So that post was my little attempt to be the "peacemaker." Of course, KSA then turns around and uses that against you without even letting you try to explain. Why do I even bother?
@KSA:
You keep acting like you're a saint in all this, but what is the FIRST thing you said in this thread? The VERY FIRST reply? You said this project is "interesting" but that people should use PWLib or PyWright first, and then if the game is liked, use AADS as a second option. I'm sorry, but if I were B12, I would be offended at that, too! It's arrogant, practically a slap in the face to a person that just arrived here and is sharing his work with us. I'm sure you would be enraged if someone said "Well, since most people think PyWright is easier, games should be made on it first, THEN use PWLib as a second option." Don't you have any empathy at all? I was trying hard to see your point of view and mediate this, but you don't try at all to see other peoples' point of view. I respect your work, man, but come on! Have you ever heard the term "FRIENDLY competition?"
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
To you, my sir, I leave this. I, "whom apparently did not see much of PWLib and PYWright" (no offense saluk, I have no problem with you or your casemaker. I don't understand why KSA_Tech is constantly bringing it up), ask you this:
What have you seen or known about the DS and its hardware limits, my coding skills or the fact that PWLib or PYWright are much better (future-wise, once I complete this) besides the problems I post myself (which are all solved up to this point).
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
Anyway, kindness aside and such, let's just wait and see how things turn out. We can't see the future.
I really don't care if PWLib is used as a second version, as long as it is used.
So, best of luck to you. I want to stop this war preemptive before it begins, since I won't stand another drama over CR. I'll work on PWLib as hard as possible to bring the best possible I can.
There should be always a peaceful solution for all problems.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
KSA_Tech wrote:
Anyway, let thing be as they are. I never expected people to sit and try to understand why sometimes I turn arrogant over things. Instead of saying "he is this, that", no one really tried to say "what's wrong?".
Anyway, kindness aside and such, let's just wait and see how things turn out. We can't see the future.
I really don't care if PWLib is used as a second version, as long as it is used.
Anyway, kindness aside and such, let's just wait and see how things turn out. We can't see the future.
I really don't care if PWLib is used as a second version, as long as it is used.
I don't feel you're seeing the big picture here. These projects, PYWright, PWLib and AADS, are all meant for the COMMUNITY. Whether or not yours is used, mine is used or even if saluk's is being used should not matter. I feel that the community should be able to decide between which one is best and choose among them, not have developers swiftboating each other's projects so that they can maintain a monopoly for people to use theirs.
I've seen you talk smack about PYWright and trying to convince PYWright users to use your casemaker. It's not unknown. Think about why you made the casemaker in the first place. If it was not for ego, attention or fame, then this argument may not have erupted as it has. No offense, KSA, but I feel that if you want to have peace, just stop posting here. You may check on updates and the status of the project, but unlike the beginning of this thread, you have gone from "this project is interesting" to "DS hardware limitations... blah blah blah". Thank you very much.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
I really don't want to start any more problems.
There is something that makes me get aggressive towards things, and it something very personal to me, not against you or saluk in the past. I don't expect people to really understand it.
So let's forget what happened and start over again. I don't expect people to understand my inner reasons for things, so it is better to simple forget it.
I find the project interesting, that isn't any kind of demotion.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
I may not agree with you or the way you act towards others, but I can definitely respect a call for peace. Here's hoping for an awesome future for ALL casemakers :)
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
The reason behind it is something that hardly someone will understand just looking at it. I feel only talking to me will give any clues or facts about it.
Bu let keep things without issues as they should be.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
-Presenting evidence and reactions to evidence.
-Auto-prompt for presenting evidence
Good luck on your finals if you have any!
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
^ Ji Hye Jang
Gender: None specified
Location: Your mom
Rank: Medium-in-training
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:16 am
Posts: 535
KSA_Tech wrote:
The very way I act sometimes isn't right, I admit it.
The reason behind it is something that hardly someone will understand just looking at it. I feel only talking to me will give any clues or facts about it.
Bu let keep things without issues as they should be.
The reason behind it is something that hardly someone will understand just looking at it. I feel only talking to me will give any clues or facts about it.
Bu let keep things without issues as they should be.
I understand, but don't forget you yourself would have been new to programming at one point. Would you have got as far if people kept trying to keep you down rather than helping out?
Proud creator of the first released PWLib-made fangame! ^_^
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
No one really helped me over AIGE (because I didn't want to), but even so I was able to do it. If you really pursue a dream to do something, it won't be other people's words that should stop you. If they do, you're weak, or your dream isn't really what you want.
I had many dreams along creating things I wanted, but I always was left alone. I don't want to be left alone with PWLib.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
B12Core wrote:
Further work on this project will commence mid-next week, as I have finals this Wednesday and Thursday. I am aiming to complete:
-Presenting evidence and reactions to evidence.
-Auto-prompt for presenting evidence
Good luck on your finals if you have any!
-Presenting evidence and reactions to evidence.
-Auto-prompt for presenting evidence
Good luck on your finals if you have any!
Sweet, sounds like the demo should be fun to play with.
Mind if I ask a few questions about your intentions for this? I'm curious about a couple things ...
1) It seems like the scripting for a person's entire case or game will be contained within a single ini file, right? Will it pretty much be scripting from scratch, or are you planning any kind of GUI for the actual creation of a case?
2) There's been limited talk of putting in custom characters/graphics, but I'm also curious about if someone wants to make a case using only material from the original games. Do you plan to include some resources ready-to-go? I guess what I'm asking is, are you planning to include everything needed to make a case, like all the BGs, characters, evidence, etc from the original games, so that all a user will need to do is provide the script for a full game?
3) Will it be possible to combine the engine and the .ini file(and also any custom content) into a single, distributable .NDS file? I'm curious because it would make for cleaner, more "idiot-proof" fangame releases.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer, and good luck on your finals :)
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
Location: Brazil
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 2731
My real consern about AADS is nothing personal against B12Core (even though it could be, but it isn't), but the small fact that people might abandon other casemaker no matter the quality that AADS has, but only by the sole fact that it is in the DS.
In other words, no matter how good PWLib is for example, AADS will get users just because it is "DS". I can see that by the way papermario reacted to it: "It's gonna be on the DS! YAY!". It overshgadowed the fact that it is made in PWLib, just because it will be on the DS. It is expected that most people can easily advance from "ah, why PWLib is you can DS it out?". I think a certain someone just said that. How do people want to expect that I'll just smile and say "right, I'll just accept the fact that no matter how good I work on this, it will be lost because it isn't DS"? So I feel that PWLib will be just remembered, but not used. It is a sad fact for me, and it would be really something that means "left alone".
I don't expect B12Core to understand it, and I think Shinkinrui will simple ignore it like he did to my last post, but it's the internet, where people mostly don't care about what others really feel.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
LuAA Developer
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 607
Shinkinrui wrote:
B12Core wrote:
Further work on this project will commence mid-next week, as I have finals this Wednesday and Thursday. I am aiming to complete:
-Presenting evidence and reactions to evidence.
-Auto-prompt for presenting evidence
Good luck on your finals if you have any!
-Presenting evidence and reactions to evidence.
-Auto-prompt for presenting evidence
Good luck on your finals if you have any!
Sweet, sounds like the demo should be fun to play with.
Mind if I ask a few questions about your intentions for this? I'm curious about a couple things ...
1) It seems like the scripting for a person's entire case or game will be contained within a single ini file, right? Will it pretty much be scripting from scratch, or are you planning any kind of GUI for the actual creation of a case?
2) There's been limited talk of putting in custom characters/graphics, but I'm also curious about if someone wants to make a case using only material from the original games. Do you plan to include some resources ready-to-go? I guess what I'm asking is, are you planning to include everything needed to make a case, like all the BGs, characters, evidence, etc from the original games, so that all a user will need to do is provide the script for a full game?
3) Will it be possible to combine the engine and the .ini file(and also any custom content) into a single, distributable .NDS file? I'm curious because it would make for cleaner, more "idiot-proof" fangame releases.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer, and good luck on your finals :)
My casemaker will support:
Loading custom music files (you need to convert them down to 128 kb/s due to DS hardware, doesn't sound too bad OR use high-quality .mod files <<< I use these).
Loading custom sprites, maps and evidence/profiles (This is why AADS is nice, due to the fact that ALL images converted to PAGfx will be encrypted. This means no one can rip your sprites, maps or evidence/profiles! The converted images will be .bin files, taking up less than 10 MB for every 1000 sprite images. Every frame will have to be 256x192 with the sprite in the center and a magenta background.)
The casemaker .nds file will also be able to support up to 999 different types of cases. Just name the .ini file after the number. For example, 001.ini will be accompanied with your own external encrypted 001 image .bin files. This will load your case and the image of your case will show up behind the case name.
Basically, the .nds file will hold 999 cases, with New Game function showing cases 1-999 which you may start and continue function showing cases 1-999 which you may wish to continue.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
@KSA: I wasn't ignoring you, I was trying to get back on topic. If you want to talk about you and your feelings, I'll start it up over in your 70-page topic.
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
They don't :c
Gender: Male
Location: http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/southamerica/political-map-of-Argentina.gif
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:34 pm
Posts: 3188
"Now you two kiss and make up." -Maya Fey (GS3)
Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.
The kind of judge you can trust
Gender: Male
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:51 am
Posts: 279
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: janedoodlesthings and 16 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
News
Site map
SitemapIndex
RSS Feed