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What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
Master of Babies!
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
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PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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Still, it is very simple, comes with easy access to 99% of existing characters (all characters are included, but some may not be perfected), and will soon have a decent editor. It is not as simple as it could be, but should not be hard to learn quickly.
Your best bet is to just start using either pwlib or pywright, and ask questions if you get stuck. The pwlib and pywright communities are both very helpful to newcomers. You can't really know if you don't like a system until after giving it a solid effort. Even AAO falls under this.
Pwlib and pywright are comparable in features, but differ greatly philosophically.
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
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PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
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It's not the power to make custom interfaces that makes it so flexible...
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
I'd say
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http://www.gyakutenwiki.net/w/Comparison_of_Casemakers
Also Ksa, Hush, enough already...
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
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Recall that PWLib is totally in AIGE's script, while PyWright is only an engine written in python.
Making custom interfaces is a mark of flexibility, but AIGE is not just "pw".
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
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When MrCheese doubted me, no one came and said something to him. saluk even tried to protect him.
Now when I go and doubt someone, there is always someone to come and say something to me. (in this case, it was Ceres).
I just find it amusing that saluk said about "no one is against me", but things like this always happen. I never have someone to go and defend me. I just wanted to know why.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Genha your best bet is to check out the Wiki that Ceres linked to help you in your decision. Or, you could always download both and put them through a little test run to get the feel for them both.
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
Master of Babies!
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
Gender: Male
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Posts: 2731
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
Master of Babies!
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
I'd say
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as for Pwlib I believe WINE is neccesary.
Hope it helps~
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
Yo Dawg!
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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PWLib: Requires Windows emulator
PyWright: Simpler (for now at least)
PWLib: Better documented (except for how to actually get it running, but it's easy to ask in the thread)
PyWright: No working editor
PWLib: No editor
PyWright: Less flexible
PWLib: More flexible, but you won't be using most of the extra features
As you can see, they're pretty similar. Try both or whichever is easier for you to run on a Mac.
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
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Deploying:
PWLib: Requires WINE or other Windows Emulator to work outside of Windows. In Windows, only requires a DirectX DLL and a runtime. No compilation required.
PyWright: Requires source compilation and some sets of libraries to be installed (Python).
Development:
PWLib: AHLSL Language Based, relative more complex set of commands to work with. Will have a set of commands to make it very simple in the near future.
PyWright: Easy Python-like language targeted towards Phoenix Wright gaming.
Editor:
PWLib: No editor, but can be programmed using coloring on Notepad++.
PyWright: No complete editor yet, but will have one in the future.
Flexibility:
PWLib: Full flexibility provided by AIGE (AHLSL).
PyWright: Flexibility limited to PW gaming.
Graphics Support:
PWLib: lots of formats. Gif coming on next release.
PyWright: less formats, but consolidated gif support now.
Audio Support:
PWLib: many formats thanks to Audiere.
PyWright: less formats (i think ogg and mp3 and wav only, not sure).
Tutorials and Manuals:
PWLib: full documentation (outdated, but will get a new one soon).
PyWright: little documentation (and some examples that ship with the program).
Programming Base:
PWLib: (AHLSL) Structured, function based model. No Go to middle code, go to functions instead. Strict typed, reflexive. Generic Programming.
PyWright: (WrightScript) Linear based, macro-statement. Go to in middle code possible. PW Programming.
Both have their strengths and qualities.
Now, talking the truth, PWLib and PyWright are totally different in concept. PWLib is totally made into AHLSL (a language I made to work with AIGE), while PyWright uses just Python. They are not the same, not even close like MrCheese said. Totally different concepts and execution.
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Last edited by KSA_Tech on Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
Yo Dawg!
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Ceres wrote:
Don't let these 2 arguing schoolgirls influence your decision :P
that is win. most definitely
anyway back to the casemakers, as people be sayin, the casemakers are different but still good nontheless. I've used both PyWright and PWLib. I like them both. PWLib is indeed flexible, as it is but a library for a visual novel engine, so your possibilities extend far beyond Ace Attorney game programming. IMO, PWLib had more of a learning curve for me, but there is a (more or less) good book on KSA's website explaining the basic things. PWLib does require WINE if you want to run it on a Mac or Linux PC, but that shouldnt be TOO hard (I use linux, and it is fairly easy there, so it should be much easier for a Mac user).
PyWright is a good one too, but unlike PWLib, you're kinda limited just to PW stuff (but isn't that what we're discussing anyway?). PyWright was easier to learn for me because its based of a generally easy to learn language. Python is known for being easy while still functional. PyWright is also a little more native on non Windows PCs, but for those you still need certain libraries for python and such.
Both casemakers are good. And with all the features coming into them, I dont think its possible to call either 'simple' anymore. No matter which one you use, you will have to learn some kind of language.
I hope this helps some...
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
In The Middle of It Now
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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Neon Lemmy Koopa wrote:
Ceres wrote:
Don't let these 2 arguing schoolgirls influence your decision :P
that is win. most definitelyIt gets rather annoying to see such annoying DISCUSSIONs going on in the GAMES part of the forums over such a silly fashion. Now their both going to hate me but look.
Yes, I understand your both trying to get people to use your respective programs to merit all the hard work you have put into developing them, it's a bit like two games of a similar genre competing for sales, I understand that you would want to make more profit. BUT you're both doing it for completely the wrong reasons, you guys are basically like two gangsters trying to get the larger party so you can go "Haaa! I win!" What happened to providing useful tools to the community for the sake of helping users make games for the genre we all enjoy here? I'm getting so tired of this I'm honestly thinking of boycotting both the damn programs so it gives you someone new to concentrate your hatred towards rather than at each other causing delays in your production times.
Genha wrote:
I mean, not as simple as Ace Attorney Online, but not incredibly hard. Something that you can get used to.
At the moment both will take some time to learn as neither have a pretty GUI with a click-and-do feature like "MechaBowser's Case Maker 2.1" so I am afraid if you're looking to make something within the next few months you will need to sit down and learn how to do coding, If you post in the respective case makers topic im pretty sure users of either program will be more than willing to support and help (Look at the Phoenix Wright: Remnants of the Past, a PWLib game started by one person that seemed to immediately grab the inspiration of the community and got tons of people helping out! it was inspirational to see this!). If you would like you can try get a project together similar to how some people have, or if you're not in a huge rush you could wait until the current case makers provide a easier method to creation such as in PWLib's case, the upcoming simpler function names which shorten your code and makes various Phoenix Wright things that are possible in its code a bit easier to find with a (hopefully) predictable function name, i.e pwlib_messagebox("This is a example message, Mr. Wright!","Edgeworth"); would be nice. So it all depends on your time frame that you have set for your project.
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer
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A simple chart flow for current on the wild casemakers:
[AIGE] -- (AHLSL) --> [PWLib] ----> |
__| ------------ (AHLSL) ---------> | -----> [PW Game]
__| ------------ (AHLTL) ---------> |
[PyWright] ----- (WrightScript) -----> [PW Game]
[Ace Attorney Online] ---- (Online Editor) ----> [PW Game]
So basically if you want quick dev (now), PyWright is better since it is directly a PW engine (so less code learning). (as Prosecutor Manella said).
In PWLib's case, you develop a game on AIGE using PWLib, so you get a longer learning curve. (as Neon pointed and experienced).
PWLib 1.2 Under Development
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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You are right that we want our hard work validated. And it is HARD work. Many 100's of hours of work over a long period of time. But you are also right that the main goal should be tools to enhance the community. Originally that was the reason, I don't know why things changed. I do respect KSA's work, as I am pretty sure he respects mine, but we do at times feel pressure from the "other" side in various forms, and it's easy to take things personally.
No, I don't hate you for speaking the truth, even if the truth hurts (lol, only a little).
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
PWLib / AIGE developer
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saluk wrote:
Thank you DDRKhat for shining some light on the situation. It probably would be more fair in a thread like this for us devs to let our users hawk the programs rather than ourselves, especailly since our users probably know better about the user side than we do.
You are right that we want our hard work validated. And it is HARD work. Many 100's of hours of work over a long period of time. But you are also right that the main goal should be tools to enhance the community. Originally that was the reason, I don't know why things changed. I do respect KSA's work, as I am pretty sure he respects mine, but we do at times feel pressure from the "other" side in various forms, and it's easy to take things personally.
No, I don't hate you for speaking the truth, even if the truth hurts (lol, only a little).
I feel sorry that I had to sort of semi-hijack the topic just to get this point across. But what I reckon you should both simply do is just sit back and evaluate things for a week, put everything production related on pause (unless there is an IMMEDIATE need for fixes, fatal crashing and such) and just cool off, you've been working that hard you are both getting antsy, you need a holiday from your own programs time to sit back and just enjoy the fact that people use it people enjoy it and people are willing to invest their time into using your product.You are right that we want our hard work validated. And it is HARD work. Many 100's of hours of work over a long period of time. But you are also right that the main goal should be tools to enhance the community. Originally that was the reason, I don't know why things changed. I do respect KSA's work, as I am pretty sure he respects mine, but we do at times feel pressure from the "other" side in various forms, and it's easy to take things personally.
No, I don't hate you for speaking the truth, even if the truth hurts (lol, only a little).
Remember that when it comes to a game development kit that you two are providing, it's not just you that's got to put the effort in, the user your giving these tools to must also invest quite a large amount of time into making things work as well as they would like to (I hate refering to it so much but again, PW: Remnants of Past.. prime example.. all that work has been done, and yet the physical coding has only begun! there is a huge road ahead still!). Your pointless little debates over "mines better" is making both your (very supportive, from what I've seen!) customers suffer. It's ironic that your clawing at each person you can get, then once you have you immediately forget about them and try to claw more, reward those that you already have under your wing, provide them with gifts of easier production, more features, things like that!
I apologize this sounds like another rant, but I really do not want any more topics wasted over this, if you just step back and look you will truly see what you have and what you really need to work on, rather than what you think you need to work on, It's hard to do this but it will benefit everyone, I hard to learn to do this the hard way so I'd prefer if a somewhat friendly wall of text will get you both do to what I struggled to do.
MrCheeze wrote:
This thread was ASKING for a comparison, for once what they were doing was fine.
Are you sure? Because despite their violent behavior, the only thing they've managed to break so far, is your heart. Maybe you can settle for that? but I guess we both know that isn't going to happen. [Whomever gets this reference, +2 cookies.]But lets look at the initial replies shall we? I don't wanna begin a huge argument here so lets just use those as a basis.
KSA_Tech wrote:
I would say PWLib. The beginning looks hard, but once you get used to it, it gets easy to work with.
Rather closed, KSA is simply saying "I'm your best bet at getting this car, it's a bit rough to get 'er going but once she's going, it's smooth roads!" (Yeah, poor analogy..)saluk wrote:
PyWright fits the bill here. Of course, I am just as biased toward it as KSA is toward pwlib.
Still, it is very simple, comes with easy access to 99% of existing characters (all characters are included, but some may not be perfected), and will soon have a decent editor. It is not as simple as it could be, but should not be hard to learn quickly.
Your best bet is to just start using either pwlib or pywright, and ask questions if you get stuck. The pwlib and pywright communities are both very helpful to newcomers. You can't really know if you don't like a system until after giving it a solid effort. Even AAO falls under this.
Pwlib and pywright are comparable in features, but differ greatly philosophically.
Now here, Saluk is a bit more helpful but again, he's advertising his own product, he was trying to "sell" his program to the topic author.Still, it is very simple, comes with easy access to 99% of existing characters (all characters are included, but some may not be perfected), and will soon have a decent editor. It is not as simple as it could be, but should not be hard to learn quickly.
Your best bet is to just start using either pwlib or pywright, and ask questions if you get stuck. The pwlib and pywright communities are both very helpful to newcomers. You can't really know if you don't like a system until after giving it a solid effort. Even AAO falls under this.
Pwlib and pywright are comparable in features, but differ greatly philosophically.
What I personally believe was that this topic author should have really only gotten replies from people whom USE the programs rather than the authors of them, that way they get a users point of view and not a salesmans.
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
I'd say
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
Yo Dawg!
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saluk wrote:
No, I don't hate you for speaking the truth, even if the truth hurts (lol, only a little).
YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!
...cough cough
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
Argent Sunfly
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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*Also PyWright is less accurate actually
Anyway, did you make a decision, Genhy?
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
In The Middle of It Now
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Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
PWLib / AIGE developer
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Prosecutor Manella wrote:
Looks like everyone's bumbuddies again.
Do you think that comment was really worth posting about in this topic?
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl
Re: What case maker gets the job done, is simple, but works?
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Crap. Neither was your post.
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