Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:04 pm

RobbieValiant

The evidence of literature's decline.

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Hey. Yeah, I'm a noob around here. I'm just looking for help. I'm planning on a somewhat parody Phoenix Wright game, that uses the main cast of Danny Phantom. I plan on doing digital art that I'll downsize to use as sprites, and I am looking for some help working on this. Mainly, someone who can do backgrounds in a similar style to the ones used on DP- example- and someone to help me a bit with the technical side of things. I'm generally pretty good with computers and etc., I'm just learning here. I've already began working on the story side, it essentially follows the plot of AA, but with a twist- ghosts. Ghosts appear and are obviously "real", just as they are in the DP universe. However, of course, there is more than meets the eye at times. Danny and Vlad are naturally Phoenix and Edgeworth, with Sam and Jazz as Maya and Mia Fey, and Maddie as Misty Fey. All other character casting is in the works, though Technus is quite likely going to be Godot. :will:

Right now I'm thinking PyWright or PWLib, but both pose problems- I can't find a real answer on the level of customizability in PyWright, which is bad as I'll need to make a custom player and custom prosecutors, and PWLib has the problem of it's limit of 3 evidence pieces and 3 profile pages. If all else fails, I'll probably end up trying to put this together in MMF2.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:22 pm

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

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I don't think the 3 profile 3 evidence page is a real limit to not consider PWLib.
As I said, it will be lifted eventually (I could sit and work on it for 1.2, but I prefer to not delay 1.2 anymore).

You can have infinite amount of evidences and profiles, but you can only show up to 3 pages of each.

I can try to fix this issue on PWLib, even add a 4th page if need is due now.

I was thinking on this limit for a while now, and I feel that it, after Shinku, is top priority.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:26 pm

RobbieValiant

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KSA_Tech wrote:

I don't think the 3 profile 3 evidence page is a real limit to not consider PWLib.
As I said, it will be lifted eventually (I could sit and work on it for 1.2, but I prefer to not delay 1.2 anymore).

You can have infinite amount of evidences and profiles, but you can only show up to 3 pages of each.

I can try to fix this issue on PWLib, even add a 4th page if need is due now.

I was thinking on this limit for a while now, and I feel that it, after Shinku, is top priority.

Oh, 3 evidence PAGES. I must've misread, sorry... :payne:

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:28 pm

Ceres

I'd say

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You are able to import custom characters in Pywright, hope it helps. ^_^

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:31 am

MrCheeze

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Yeah, I don't think ANY casemaker is that uncustomisable.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:36 am

RobbieValiant

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MrCheeze wrote:

Yeah, I don't think ANY casemaker is that uncustomisable.

I thought there were some that only allowed custom witnesses and supporting characters, not the player character.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:10 pm

MrCheeze

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Wait, you mean changing the bottom screen's button and stuff like that?

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:26 am

RobbieValiant

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MrCheeze wrote:

Wait, you mean changing the bottom screen's button and stuff like that?

No, changing the defense lawyer. The player character.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:13 am

saluk

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pwlib and pywright have no restriction on which character you can use where. (There isn't even really a notion of a "defense character" or "player character" in pywright. Just show a portrait that looks like a defense attourney at the proper times in your case and it shows up)

Creator of PyWright, the lovable case construction system!
Also visit the PyWright post.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:46 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

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In PWLib, you don't have limitations for the character pose you put on the court. You can even put Maya as the judge.
I can't picture a casemaker that do not support at least this level of custom.

Also PWLib animations are powered by AIGE's SAS, witch allows total control over the animation (it takes more time, but you can control the animation as you want) as well play sound effects mid-animation. Some chars do have animations using sfx (phoenix and franziska if i recall).

Each casemaker have a different method of work, harder or easier, but they all give you the possibility to make your PW game as a base.

Each 3 current active (and decent) ones all have a distinct implementation model, so each will have a stronger attribute.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:30 pm

Prosecutor Manella

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NO.

You will not bicker in a Danny Phantom thread.

And since this is entirely an OC game, I reccomend PWLib.

I can help with backgrounds, I'll make them PW sized.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:16 pm

MrCheeze

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Is programming a PWLib character faster than making a GIF?

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:24 pm

Ceres

I'd say

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Well Manella, if we're going to give recommendations, then I suggest Pywright :P (ofcourse this is merely my personal preferece), Both programs handle inserting Oc's perfectly.
But let's not turn this in yet another Casemaker debate, I suggest using both and see what fits you best.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:41 pm

DDRKhat

PWLib / AIGE developer

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MrCheeze wrote:

Is programming a PWLib character faster than making a GIF?

It will be soon. GIF -> PWLib is on it's way, and If you make a GIF you can send it to KSA_Tech to get it turned itno a sheet, then its a matter of a few simple lines of code and viola.

I have already said where I stand about the damned case maker feud so if they start in this topic then they know what will happen ultimately.

I will possibly be keeping my eye on this.

If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:38 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

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Ceres did chose PyWright because he tried PWLib and it didn't work (the 1.0x render issue). And as I know, he wouldn't try PWLib after it started working (1.1) because he "had stuff done in PyWright, don't want to have to redo it". So I think he didn't worked out in PWLib deep enough like DDRKhat or Lee did.

PWLib is recommended for all your PW game needs.

Making a char with an aligned sheet is way faster the making a GIF (using the Animation Builder).
SAS was made to be simple, and I think making a GIF or making it on SAS is equal in most cases.
As the Gif To Sheet gets perfected, using gifs will be a breeze. There are more ideas to come, like "make an animation from a gif" << even though I don't like much of this idea.

The simpler something is, the more limited it becomes. The more you hide the internals, the more guided it becomes.

-PWLib allows you to tap into the very heart of the engine while not caring about the render code for example. There will be Shinku to make it easier for the basic and classic PW functions, of course.
-PyWright goes for the easy commands method, thus it is limited compared to PWLib, but not that it can't generate a decent pw game.

And to finish, i heard from a couple of people that PWLib is the casemaker that resembles the original game most closely.

One good reference to PWLib's quality: check DDRKhat's Case 1-1.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:01 am

Neon Lemmy Koopa

Yo Dawg!

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Im quoting my own self here to save some typing

Neon Lemmy Koopa wrote:

anyway back to the casemakers, as people be sayin, the casemakers are different but still good nontheless. I've used both PyWright and PWLib. I like them both. PWLib is indeed flexible, as it is but a library for a visual novel engine, so your possibilities extend far beyond Ace Attorney game programming. IMO, PWLib had more of a learning curve for me, but there is a (more or less) good book on KSA's website explaining the basic things. PWLib does require WINE if you want to run it on a Mac or Linux PC, but that shouldnt be TOO hard (I use linux, and it is fairly easy there, so it should be much easier for a Mac user).

PyWright is a good one too, but unlike PWLib, you're kinda limited just to PW stuff (but isn't that what we're discussing anyway?). PyWright was easier to learn for me because its based of a generally easy to learn language. Python is known for being easy while still functional. PyWright is also a little more native on non Windows PCs, but for those you still need certain libraries for python and such.

Coming from someone who has used both case makers and strives to provide an unbiased opinion

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:27 am

RobbieValiant

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I'm thinking I'll go with PWLib. As for backgrounds, I already got someone on a Danny Phantom forum- Goku-san, a fairly well known DP fanartist- working on versions of the court ones in the DP style. I've also gotten the close-up talking and neutral talking animations complete, with sketches done for most of the others on Danny himself.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:07 am

DDRKhat

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I would like to think people tried to help you make an informed decision and didn't just force you into anything. So if you truly did make this decision yourself, I am glad to hear it! Although the coding can be a bit messy you are welcome to look through Case 1-1's coding. I apologize that it's not as neat as I had originally intended for it to be so that it would be a better learning tool, but it should show you various tricks you can do to achieve various things!
If all else fails don't feel afraid to ask in the PWLib topic or contact myself, KSA or other PWLib / AHLSL coders to get tips and advice. best of luck!

If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:25 pm

DramaticaXIV2

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Nearly every game has to be on PWLib now...?

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOGANT

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:33 pm

RandomJibberish

I hate Klaviema >_>

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Idk... It seems to be really overpopular...

I prefer Pywright, myself...

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:59 pm

KSA_Tech

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Some people prefer PyWright because of its supposedly "easy set of commands", since PWLib requires more programming to get things done, at least until Shinku gets released together with PWLib 1.2 (the main reason for Shinku is to make PWLib easy to use).

Let's remember that most people choose AAO to make their projects as it requires 0 programming (but is the one that looks quite away from PW in interface).

PWLib is not really "overpopular". There was a time when people started choosing PyWright all the time, now it is the time to happen the other way around.

Also it's each decision to choose the one they find the "best". If most people choose PWLib, it is the "best" by numbers. People who seem to like PyWright will say "nay, it's not", that's normal.

People need to analyze both engines accordingly. Despite preferences, witch one is the most powerful and complete? You might not use an engine because you feel other is easier, but you can say the other is better technologically or feature-core.
If you have engines A and B, even if engine B is your preference, you can't deny in case A is better, for example.

I, even been the developer of PWLib, don't deny PyWright up until now was easier then PWLib. PWLib since 1.0 up to 1.1 was harder, sure. That's sole reason I want to develop Shinku.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:10 pm

RandomJibberish

I hate Klaviema >_>

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I am in agreement with you there :godot:

I am looking forward to shinku, I never really "got" how most of the current system worked. I can at least make a conversation in Pywright :will:

Btw, I fail at coding by default. I have tried many a time, but it never really worked :sadshoe:

That's partly why I chose not to use a casemaker for my game.

[/offtopic] Although I have never heard of Danny Fenton, this sounds like it'll be great :godot:

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:11 pm

saluk

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RandomJibberish wrote:

[/offtopic] Although I have never heard of Danny Fenton, this sounds like it'll be great :godot:

Er...

Don't you mean ontopic :redd:

I just want to play more games. I wish you case makers (the people who make cases, not the programs they use) would hurry up and finish something, lol. I know, I know, it takes work. Pfft. If only the good things in life didn't take so much of that stuff.

Creator of PyWright, the lovable case construction system!
Also visit the PyWright post.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:21 pm

RandomJibberish

I hate Klaviema >_>

Gender: Male

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No. Note the the slash :godot:

And i'm waiting for a tool to come out, and spriting in the mean time :will:

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:57 pm

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

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The biggest target for us casemaker developers (me, saluk, unas) is to see new pw games around, just like saluk said.

Making a case maker program is not easy, but the results it gives are good.

:minuki:

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:25 pm

RobbieValiant

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RandomJibberish wrote:

Although I have never heard of Danny Fenton, this sounds like it'll be great :godot:

Danny Fenton, aka Danny Phantom, is the protagonist of the show Danny Phantom on Nick. It's a tribute to comics and superheroes that centers around a half-ghost teen who fights crime and evil ghosts. Of course this is an AU that's sort of a merged universe, but it still stands that ghosts exist, and to accommodate the need for mediums, I'm introducing "spirits" as sort of weaker ghosts who need a human middleman. The characters are aged up, of course, and Danny is no longer half-ghost, though he does fight crime on the side, a la Daredevil. The family relations of characters are also messed up, though I'm debating what to do with that.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:07 pm

saluk

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I have seen the show once or twice. Never cared much for it, but it was an interesting premise. It will be interesting to see what you do with things. The idea of the spirits needing lawyers is pretty funny, and does fit the show. I mean, don't they have a say before Danny locks them away? Their entitled to representation just like anyone else!

It almost could fit in with the rest of the games too, what with all of the mediums, and especially 3-5. Nice find for source material to riff off of.

Creator of PyWright, the lovable case construction system!
Also visit the PyWright post.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:48 pm

MrCheeze

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Could you make the game understandable to those who don't watch the show (introducing characters, etc)?

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:00 am

RobbieValiant

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saluk wrote:

I have seen the show once or twice. Never cared much for it, but it was an interesting premise. It will be interesting to see what you do with things. The idea of the spirits needing lawyers is pretty funny, and does fit the show. I mean, don't they have a say before Danny locks them away? Their entitled to representation just like anyone else!

It almost could fit in with the rest of the games too, what with all of the mediums, and especially 3-5. Nice find for source material to riff off of.

That's not quite the direction I'm going, but there will be ghosts. Ghost witnesses, ghost prosecutors, and maybe even a ghost defendant or two.

MrCheeze wrote:

Could you make the game understandable to those who don't watch the show (introducing characters, etc)?

Of course. This is an alternative continuity to the show, so the takes on the characters should, if I pull this off right, make sense to fans of both, even if it ends up catering a bit more to the people who've seen it.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:40 pm

Prosecutor Manella

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I'm a mega-fan. I seen all de episodes.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:31 am

GolemdX

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saluk wrote:

I mean, don't they have a say before Danny locks them away?

Actually, all he does is put them in a thermos... I haven't seen it in a long while, but I think all they do is yell 'Noooooo!' before they get sucked in.

Re: Danny Fenton: Ace Attorney

Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:10 am

RobbieValiant

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GolemdX wrote:

saluk wrote:

I mean, don't they have a say before Danny locks them away?

Actually, all he does is put them in a thermos... I haven't seen it in a long while, but I think all they do is yell 'Noooooo!' before they get sucked in.

He practices catch and release in the show- He captures a ghost in the thermos, then he sends them back to the ghost zone, a sort of ethereal alternate plane where they come from.