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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I'm gonna start off by saying that I loved Quercus Alba. He has surpassed Gant as my favorite final boss of the series and even surpassed Shelly de Killer as my favorite villain. His brilliance and meticulous planning allowed him to set up and run an enormous smuggling/counterfeiting operation for years. His position and power kept him safe, he would brush aside anything that got in his way, he controlled people, and he did it all while pretending to be a completely harmless old man.

I did manage to figure out that he was the leader ahead of time, but I never once suspected how drastic his change would be. That transformation was one of the best things in the series. (It was even better than his final breakdown which was awesome in its own right). And as a few others have said, his testimony taking so long was fantastic. It all fit into the primary symbolism behind his character: that of an ancient tree. He is so old and so powerful and unbelievably stubborn. He knows that you have to get him completely to rights. If there is even the slightest amount of doubt left he can just walk away. And so you have to keep at him, countering him at every turn, bringing up proof after proof after proof. Edgeworth is essentially taking an axe to a gigantic ancient tree and attempting to chop it down. Of course it is going to take a long time and that tree is not going to simply fall. It takes time and endurance and effort and it is wonderful. I had so much fun because I wanted to break him so badly.

Larry and Oldbag and the others were a relief actually because it became so physically straining to keep at it that the occasional outbursts from the others would make me chuckle and give me a break. The best part was the Forensics guy. I shouted "WAIT HE OBJECTED!?" XDD

Anyway the rest of the case was fantastic too. I didn't see Shih-na = Yew coming at all. Even when I knew she must have been the 'killer', for some reason it just didn't click that she was Calisto. (This is despite me having wondered ever since she first appeared why her age wasn't given. Whoops. XP) The scene following beating her was SO INTENSE and Lang is just so badass. He takes a bullet to the leg and just shrugs it off. Damn. And Tyrell Badd's appearance right then was awesome.

I didn't figure out the Yatagarasu thing either and was really confused about all the different ones that seemed to be going around. Oops! Guess I was pretty slow.

But yeah absolutely terrific case, I loved how it tied everything together so well. This game finally showed us how an overarching plot is done.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Icarus wrote:
But... Megadeth is objectively better than Metallica! :rock'n:

And, uh... Larry didn't annoy me at all. Showing up at tense moments and breaking the tension is what he does. Remember 1-4 when he saved you from a Game Over after you "lost?" I loved Edgeworth's reaction to Larry calling Alba a "true Steel Samurai fan."

Oldbag did annoy me, but that's why she's sometimes funny in the first place.


Listen.... the point I'm making is NOT that these comic relief characters never have a time or a place... it's that their timing in 5-5 was terrible. Not when they initially showed up, but when they showed up during the climax. Larry saves you in 1-4, but that was not during the climax of the case.
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Yaragorm wrote:
But if you want a real badass, it was Tyrell Badd. Who knew he was a part of the Yatagarasu? I sort of saw it coming but it still came as a shock. Imagine, wouldn't it be cool if Phoenix, Edgey, and Gumshoe did something like that? Or Apollo, Klavier, Ema? We need fanfics of this! Yatagarasu may be an incredibly awkward thing to say in english, but I now see the awesome epicness behind it all!too bad shih-na ruined it all


I felt like the ending hinted that Edgeworth, Kay, and Gumshoe would form the Yggdrasil Yatagarasu in the future. ^^
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Regy Rusty wrote:
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Basically this was my impression of the final case too, except I figured out Yew and Alba ahead of time, but not soon enough to feel like a spoiler. Yew clicked for me the moment Shih-Na was essentially proven to be alone in the neighbouring room, at which point I suddenly compared their profile pics and saw a striking resemblance.

The high point of the case for me was seeing Yew's breakdown. I saw that evil cackle coming but I still wasn't disappointed. Sheer brilliance - it's just a shame that it managed to outshine the final boss' breakdown. :/

The Turtle Guy wrote:
I felt like the ending hinted that Edgeworth, Kay, and Gumshoe would form the Yggdrasil Yatagarasu in the future. ^^


I interpreted it as implying Ema, Kay and someone else - Maya at a stretch. There isn't really an ideal third member that's a defense attorney and fits Kay's personal criteria. :P
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Midnight Jasper wrote:
Kay's "Come on everyone, let's keep fighting!" moment really got on my nerves. I also was annoyed every time she talked about the Yatagarasu, because personally I don't think Kay has a right to call herself the second Yatagarasu. She was always talking about her "father's legacy", but her father never gave that legacy to her and Badd had turned himself in, which I interpreted as him wanting Yatagarasu to die rather than Kay so adamantly preserving it.

I would be inclined to agree. Then again, Kay didn't do much for me at all... I have no clue why, but she just drove me up a wall for the longest portion of the game. Oddly enough, almost everyone else was fine.
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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just beat it a few hours ago. Great stuff. The moment I saw that old man I suspected him of being the big bad guy.
Boy that was great! So much fan service. Steel Samurai, Pink Princess, Jammin' Ninja, Lotta Hart, Missile, Samurai Dogs, I got a big laugh when Detective Badd showed them the picture of the "flying Yatagarasu" and Franny was all like "Humans can't fly!" and Edgey was like "I think I disproved something like this in court a while ago." (3-5) and Franny was like "...Hmm, me too. Twice." (2-3) and (3-5). Also I wish they would've mentioned or shown Lang's bullet at least one more time, but I guess that's just how much of a bad ass he is.

Things I Thought Would Happen In GK But Didn't:
I thought Lang was going to be evil for the longest time!
I kept hoping for Jacques Portsman to come back, or become a bigger part to the story (because he did have his own personal "Objection" and they don't give those out to just anybody!)
I kept thinking Kay was going to pull that Key out of her hair and use it to unlock something as the final mystery. Oh well, maybe the sequel.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Midnight Jasper wrote:
It's in the Allebahstian embassy after he accuses her, and I don't remember the dialogue but I don't believe they reference it or anything like that.

EDIT: 9:40 on this video


Ah, thank you so much! I see it now.
Gosh, I was too busy reading the text, I guess I missed it T_T Ugh... oh well...

:sadshoe:
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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A great case imo. I liked Yew's sudden appearance (even though I already spoiled myself to that) and I liked how Alba was the villain (even though I already spoiled myself at that), and a pretty tough one at that.

The intro was pretty misleading imo, I thought Edgeworth was setting the Embassy on fire, hunting for Kay.. or something.
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I loved this case. It connected everything perfectly. I didn't expect old man Alba (AULD MAN!) to be the killer, and Yew's appearance was OMGWOW. And Lang... Lang was great in this case, and has proven why he's 100% awesome. And Badd? He was bad@$$.

I loved when Lang called Alba a b@stard in full caps. And Alba's reaction. Absolutely brilliant.

This case and case 4 have made this game tie with T&T for my favourite AA game ever.

Oh and Alba having his own objection was great.
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Aaah diplomatic immunity rears its ugly head. Although I'm pretty sure Alba still wouldn't be able to get away with a smuggling ring without violating some sort of international law (I know shit-all about law so I'm just guessing). I should ask my dad and see what he thinks, he's an ambassador after all.

Also how did Calisto Yew manage to sneak into Interpol without some sort of background check being carried out? Being a murder suspect would certainly hinder her chances I'd think.
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Lang wrote:
Your diplomatic immunity... HAS JUST BEEN REVOKED!


HOW IN THE HELL DID I MISS THIS. LOVE.

Yellow Magician wrote:
Also how did Calisto Yew manage to sneak into Interpol without some sort of background check being carried out? Being a murder suspect would certainly hinder her chances I'd think.


The smuggling ring seemed really huge and thorough, they probably gave her a fake identity. I mean, she wasn't really Calisto either and yet she managed to fool everyone. Which I don't really get: I mean, Cece wouldn't have recognized her. Weren't there any of Cece's friends who could just step forward and say "Cece didn't have a sister"? Or maybe even Cece's parents? Or am I missing something?
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A fake identity....getting past freaking Interpol? Not even in video games dude. ;\
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Yellow Magician wrote:
A fake identity....getting past freaking Interpol? Not even in video games dude. ;\

If there's one constant in Ace Attorney World, it's that the police are incompetant.
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that's true, but...come on....Interpol.....aaah never mind.
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Yellow Magician wrote:
that's true, but...come on....Interpol.....aaah never mind.

Spoiler: 4-3
Romein left two dying messages. Two! And he didn't give away the identity of his killer in either. I think Interpol falls under the "police are stupid" rule

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Completely forgot about that case. AA seems so stupid all of a sudden D:
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I miss having my head spin in excitement and confusion in an Ace Attorney case. D: Here it was just confusion. And those Samurai Dogs gave me a hankering for one! XD
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So last night I watched "Castle of Cagliostro" for the first time. Fantastic movie. <3 But anyway, I couldn't help but notice the similarities between it and case 5.

I mean they both have Interpol involved, a huge long-running economy-ruining money counterfeiting thing based in a small made-up European country, and a creepy bastard of a bad guy behind it all.
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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fatalfeline wrote:
So last night I watched "Castle of Cagliostro" for the first time. Fantastic movie. <3 But anyway, I couldn't help but notice the similarities between it and case 5.

I mean they both have Interpol involved, a huge long-running economy-ruining money counterfeiting thing based in a small made-up European country, and a creepy bastard of a bad guy behind it all.


o_O

That sounds eerily similar to our case 5 all right.
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fatalfeline wrote:
So last night I watched "Castle of Cagliostro" for the first time. Fantastic movie. <3 But anyway, I couldn't help but notice the similarities between it and case 5.

I mean they both have Interpol involved, a huge long-running economy-ruining money counterfeiting thing based in a small made-up European country, and a creepy bastard of a bad guy behind it all.


Damn, I might have to watch that movie.

Arti_Rei wrote:
I miss having my head spin in excitement and confusion in an Ace Attorney case. D: Here it was just confusion. And those Samurai Dogs gave me a hankering for one! XD


Now you know how I felt about Bridge To The Turnabout.
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Just managed to complete this myself last night.
I don't really know what to say about this game. I didn't find this Case as a final to be that good to be honest, Was pretty bland, I also saw loads of the progression stuff (like the blood on the "Rising Sun Dogs", and then it wasn't Couches blood, me working out it was Alba's way before it came up, on SO much of this case. I found it so much easier then the rest of the game if I may be honest), In fact, I worked out some of the stuff like 2-3 testimonies ahead which was costing me a little because I was "Prematurely Evidencing" a few of the things.
Also, there was little satisfaction in completing the game for me because you never really put anyone behinds bars, you just made a case for the courts to handle, they could still get away (I know Edgeworth put Alba behind bars in court or least I think so, but I rather put him away myself).
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Alright so I haven't completely finished the game but so far my review of the last case is moot. I think the case dragged on way too long for my tastes. I guess without the court room 3 days system its hard to tell when the end has come.

Its just so far I've counted at least 4 instances where I almost believe it was the end but then I look into the organizer and then I realized.... there were still some evidence not yet used/explained FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.

Another thing I didn't like was how Edgeworth got some much prodding, poking and help from other characters. I don't really believe that Edgeworth was willing to almost give up like everytime he hit the wall. With Phoenix in the court, it was only like one or two times where somebody else (mia) had to help him and that was at the end of the cases. Edgeworth had way too many dramatic pauses, entrances and Hold it!s i.e from the top of my head Kay a couple of times scratch that 10 times, Gumshoe 3 times, Lang 2 times, Fran at least twice and don't forget Larry, and thats just a speculation of the final case.

I really don't think that Alba needed like 3 parts or let me guess 2 hours? to break. Its not impossible to have a really difficult villain be defeated in a well drawn out ending, Matt Engarde was extremly hard you can't deny that, plus it didn't feel like it took forever to convict.

Sometimes I got the feeling that Edgeworth was too smart and his leaps of logic were too many and weirdly placed. Obviously the pool would be refilled I don't really think we needed that much help from Edgeworth to figure that out.

But overall this game is okay, not the best could have been better. Felt that the fact that this took place in like 5 days was stupid. then again this is just my opinion not yours. I'm just here to voice it. I'll be back for my final conclusion. So far on my scale it ranks
PW TT> PW AA > PW JFA = AAI> AJ
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burpinet wrote:
PW TT> PW AA > PW JFA = AAI> AJ


This. Same with me. :yogi:
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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.Storm Parakaitz wrote:


As for the case as a whole I would have completed it faster if I wasn't playing while I was high. Hmm. Perhaps more strategic consumption of drugs would be most beneficial to me.

Escuse me, but wat.
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Xray wrote:
.Storm Parakaitz wrote:


As for the case as a whole I would have completed it faster if I wasn't playing while I was high. Hmm. Perhaps more strategic consumption of drugs would be most beneficial to me.

Escuse me, but wat.


How the hell can anyone play straight through an AA game while they're high!? :beef:
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Arti_Rei wrote:
Xray wrote:
.Storm Parakaitz wrote:


As for the case as a whole I would have completed it faster if I wasn't playing while I was high. Hmm. Perhaps more strategic consumption of drugs would be most beneficial to me.

Escuse me, but wat.


How the hell can anyone play straight through an AA game while they're high!? :beef:


BREAKING NEWS: We've just learned the secret to Phoenix Wright's "outside the box" method of defense!
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You know, that scene before the credits where Edgeworth is about to prosecute Alba, it really got me wondering, who's his defense attorney? Wouldn't it be nice to have a sequel where Edgeworth faces off against a pissed attorney who just happened to receive all the killers as clients...
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I just want something cleared up: how exactly does that special ink make it possible to counterfeit paper money? From my understander of anti-counterfeiting measures (at least American ones), a paper bill has all sorts of features aside from ink that make it extremely difficult for counterfeiters to duplicate money. Perhaps Zheng Fa's money isn't that advanced in design, I guess......

Anyway, I enjoyed this case very much. Alba has become one of my favorite AA villains.
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Cordopia Over All wrote:
I just want something cleared up: how exactly does that special ink make it possible to counterfeit paper money? From my understander of anti-counterfeiting measures (at least American ones), a paper bill has all sorts of features aside from ink that make it extremely difficult for counterfeiters to duplicate money. Perhaps Zheng Fa's money isn't that advanced in design, I guess......

Anyway, I enjoyed this case very much. Alba has become one of my favorite AA villains.


Allebahstian could paper have similar qualities to Zheng Fa paper. Maybe that's another reason why the counterfeits were so difficult to detect.
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Special counterfeiting ink really wouldn't do a bit of good; as soon as you started using it, other countries would just switch to a different kind of ink, one that's easily distinguishable.

My hypothesis: it burns green because it's made out of chopped magatama bits. It doesn't just counterfeit the original bills... it channels bills that have already been disposed of! This explains how it can look like any currency you want it to.

That's right. Magic spirit ink.
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*removes sun glasses*

My God...!
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^Seconded :beef:
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............................................

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FerdieLance wrote:
My hypothesis: it burns green because it's made out of chopped magatama bits.

:udgy:

........................

Well, I suppose the Fey branch families have to do something like chopping up magatamas for export if they suck at channeling the dead.....
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I'm still busy squeeing over Missile. He's soooo cute!

Edited to add: I Googled passion flower, and it appears Franziska's explanation of the origin of the name is correct. It's also used as a sleep aid and anti-anxiety medication. Maybe Edgeworth could use some.
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moonfall wrote:
Maybe Phoenix could use some.


Fix'd. :edgy:
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Oh yeah, that reminds me. I'm surprised Edgeworth didn't comment about finally getting some sleep at the very end. XD The last few days must've been EXHAUSTING.

Let's see... He's flying back to America and very early in the morning he passes out from the turbulence and wakes up to find a murder. He solves the crime without taking a rest and then right afterwards he's told by an old friend that he needs to pay the ransom for a kidnapping. Doing so gets him knocked out with a PROP SWORD and tied up. He ends up solving the crime and late that night/way early that morning he discovers a body in his office. He's also held up at gunpoint. He solves the crime and later in the afternoon, probably without sleeping, he goes to the embassy. We know how THAT turned out. And he has to stay until the wee hours of the morning! Poor Edgeworth. Lack of good sleep is bad for you. D:
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I loved all the Steel Samurai stuff in this case and Edgeworth's poorly-hidden fanboyism. I thought all the Larry and Oldbag scenes were hilarious. Then again, I like Larry. The fact that the countries were getting Steel Samurai and Jammin' Ninja onboard for their reunification shows what kind of dodgy little countries they were, I guess. I was sort of disappointed the Jammin' Ninja didn't turn up [who's in THAT suit?]. In general I was very happy to see more of Franziksa both in this case and case 4 etc.

I thought Shii-na would turn out to be Cece Yew actually, or some other connected char. It's nice they made the plot twist be a little less obvious than Godot. I also thought Alba showed a lot of resemblance to Gant, with a plastic surgery or something...

The plot/structure of AAI reminds me more of 1-5 than the original GS trilogy, 1-5 being so damn long they could have broken it into a few 'stages', Also Kay's relation to Edgeworth is reminiscent of Phoenix's sudden association with Ema, also the way the main protagonist is 'suddenly' drawn into a large case with a final boss over all. Except their connection with the past case was better executed than the tenuous connection in 1-5.

I didn't think the final case had the epicness and emotive pull of the first 3 games final cases [4-4 just had too many problems] but I guess it's GK and not GS. Still, I liked how all the main chars worked together and all that.

I wish we'd gotten a little more backstory on Lang I still hate the ENG name.) Why does he hate prosecutors so much? I hope they expand his story in GK2 [if they make it.] Maybe a nice trip to Zheng Fa?

Although Kay was a bit superfluous, I thought they handled her association to Edgeworth in-game well, without making her suddenly usurp Gumshoe or Edgeworth's relations to other past chars. Although Phoenix doesn't appear, the fact that he's still influencing Edgeworth's life is made discreetly obvious. It's more amusing than anything that they don't mention his actual name, especially Larry calling him 'the guy in the blue suit'. It's also amusing how thye make all these little opposite, for example, Edgeworth having exemplary flower knowledge compared to Phoenix's flower impairment. Ema in the credits is practically a 4th wall-breaker lamenting how she only got to say about one line to Edgeworth in her [admittedly near-pointless] cameo. It's sad how she says that next time she helps him it will be as a forensic scientist. Does she never help him again? Anyway, they did a great job of making a totally separate game without ruining continuity from GS1-3.

In general Edgeworth seems to be a bit toned down from the original 'Demon Prosecutor' idea in GS1 by this and 1-5 [I know that was a media inflation, but he used to be more obsessive about criminals and more of a jerk than depicted in the flashback case I'm sure.] but oh well.

The game didn't do as well as GS1-3 in making you care about the personal stories of characters, and their isn't quite the motivation there is when defending your client, but I suppose it's not exactly the same game, is it.But I loved the 'investigation' parts and their execution and graphics were great. The out of court cross-examinations weren't quite as interesting, I guess. For example, case 3. I enjoyed investigating the place a lot, but I really couldn't bring myself to care much about the actual crime and its specifics, since everyone involved were such unlikeable people [LOL I didn't care if Lauren or Meekins were dragged off to jail.] I'd rank it behind the Phoenix games but way ahead of AJ. I hope they make another [NOT with Klavier.]
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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icer wrote:
I was sort of disappointed the Jammin' Ninja didn't turn up [who's in THAT suit?].


For one crazy random moment, I thought it was either of these guys. :bellboy: :will:
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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icer wrote:
I was sort of disappointed the Jammin' Ninja didn't turn up [who's in THAT suit?].

deMasque II should've hidden in the Jammin' Ninja suit! Then we'd have (another xD) case where the Steel Samurai (current franchise mascot) kills the Jammin' Ninja!

Quote:
I wish we'd gotten a little more backstory on Lang I still hate the ENG name.) Why does he hate prosecutors so much? I hope they expand his story in GK2 [if they make it.] Maybe a nice trip to Zheng Fa?
They did mention/reference several times how prosecutors tampered w/ evidence his family got and ruined his family's honor. (...Yes, they could've gone into more detail, but for the game what happened in that case doesn't matter, just that it got him to hate prosecutors. Maybe in GK2 they can have a case that relates to this case that got Lang to hate prosecutors :P And about his English name, I don't like the actual name that much, but it is just the Chinese pronunciation of his Japanese name, so it doesn't make sense.)
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