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Is Edgeworth an atheist?
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Author:  Dark Coffee Drinker [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:19 am ]
Post subject:  Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I actually think that he is. He always trusts in science and tries to use ONLY scientific explanations. In 3-5, he sees all of the spiritual things going on and still is skeptical. For example, Edgeworth sees all of the "Psycho-Locks" and still does not think that they are real. Plus, having Misty's powers being called a "fraud" didn't help his opinions on the matter.

Do you guys have any thoughts?
Author:  Auraion [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Are you serious?
Author:  Dark Coffee Drinker [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Auraion wrote:
Are you serious?


Eh. Don't know. Just a thought.
Author:  Jean Descole [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Is Edgeworth an atheist?

I would say there is a good chance he is one. He has described himself as a man of science, and has no faith or interest in anything spiritual. This becomes quite evident in 3-5 whenever he discusses something occult-related with Iris, Gumshoe, or Phoenix.
Author:  Mr. Bear Jew [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I'd say Edgeworth is more of an agnostic more than atheist. He did call himself a believer of science and true facts but just as logic and evidence point to the truth, if science could prove the existence of a God with the same devices, he would likely reassess his perspectives on religion and spiritual faith. Although, if Dahlia's exorcism in 3-5 wasn't enough to trigger some thought on the matter then he is bafflingly stern of mind, which would make the chance of him becoming a believer even less likely than before.
Author:  hoshihoshi [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I agree with Bear. Someone like Edgeworth who does rely on cold hard evidence to support his logic and rationale for undetermined events and mysteries, the mystery of the universe and the existence of a creator would require the same process. But, because of the lack of evidence, and therefore incomplete pathways of logic, I doubt Miles would form conclusions about any of it, and ergo he would be undecided or agnostic. Although, in the universe of AA and all its supernatural magical girls, I wouldn't be conclusive about anything lol. 8| If anything, God is a member of the Fey clan! :pearl-blush:

What you don't know, you don't know!
Author:  Cyrus Vorazan [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
That's right. If a man says that he believes in sciense, that doesn't mean that he's atheist. Actually, it did before, but then it was like dark age, when all scholars were burnt or drowned, because folks thought that they did demonic things around.
Miles would be an atheist if he negated the existence of God, but he doesn't. That's why he is more like indifferent about anything higher than usual. As most people nowadays, actually.
Author:  Croik [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Dark Coffee Drinker wrote:
I actually think that he is. His love for logic and reasoning kind of made that relevant to me. Plus, his scientific conclusions and examining all aspects.

Do you guys have any thoughts?


I think it's possible, but *your* use of logic here is fairly flawed. You can be logical and a scientist and still believe in God.

But some others in the thread have raised good points. Edgeworth said he didn't believe in "spiritual" stuff (probably mostly because of the events surrounding his father's death) but he's seen Maya channel people, saw Dahlia come back from the dead etc. If he were pressed to make a conclusion based on the evidence, he'd be forced to admit to the validity of the Fey Clan's spiritual beliefs.
Author:  Optimus Prime [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I think I'd be obvious if any of the characters don't have a religon. There are more people who believe in christianity and evolution after creation than those who believe that no one created the big bang.
Author:  dullahan1 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Man came from the ground. When Edgeworth was 9 years old, his father returned to the ground.
Author:  Croik [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Optimus Prime wrote:
I think I'd be obvious if any of the characters don't have a religon. There are more people who believe in christianity and evolution after creation than those who believe that no one created the big bang.


How would it be obvious? Atheists don't usually go around proclaiming their lack of religion unless the subject comes up, and it doesn't usually come up in AA (except for the spirit channeling).
Author:  Caper234 [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Maybe, Some people say he doesn't have a soul....BUT his job is to make EVERYONE GUILTY!
Author:  hoshihoshi [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Caper234 wrote:
Maybe, Some people say he doesn't have a soul....BUT his job is to make EVERYONE GUILTY!


But everyone is guilty. Of something.
Author:  MoronSonOfBoron [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Edgeworth has only ever stated that he is a man of science.
Image
Author:  fatalfeline [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Is anyone in Ace Attorney religious?

Besides the Fey clan ancestor worship stuff.
Author:  hoshihoshi [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
fatalfeline wrote:
Is anyone in Ace Attorney religious?

Besides the Fey clan ancestor worship stuff.


Depends on what you mean by 'religious'. Although possibly instead of 'religious', they are 'spiritual'. The presence of shrines and temples, as well as meditating suggests this. But yeah, no character has overtly spoken of religious affiliations. (slightly getting offtopic, sorry).
Author:  Dark Coffee Drinker [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
hoshihoshi wrote:
fatalfeline wrote:
Is anyone in Ace Attorney religious?

Besides the Fey clan ancestor worship stuff.


Depends on what you mean by 'religious'. Although possibly instead of 'religious', they are 'spiritual'. The presence of shrines and temples, as well as meditating suggests this. But yeah, no character has overtly spoken of religious affiliations. (slightly getting offtopic, sorry).


Actually, they have talked about Religion once. It wasn't any of their opinions, but they did. If you examine the Passion Flowers in AAI case 5, Franziska tells you that it was named after the passion of the christ many years ago. But, I don't think that really matters.
Croik wrote:
Dark Coffee Drinker wrote:
I actually think that he is. His love for logic and reasoning kind of made that relevant to me. Plus, his scientific conclusions and examining all aspects.

Do you guys have any thoughts?


I think it's possible, but *your* use of logic here is fairly flawed. You can be logical and a scientist and still believe in God.

But some others in the thread have raised good points. Edgeworth said he didn't believe in "spiritual" stuff (probably mostly because of the events surrounding his father's death) but he's seen Maya channel people, saw Dahlia come back from the dead etc. If he were pressed to make a conclusion based on the evidence, he'd be forced to admit to the validity of the Fey Clan's spiritual beliefs.


Sorry Croik. I really didn't go into real detail about my opinions. I also kind of forgot about 3-5. :oops: Anyway, I am an atheist so I think that I really should update my post. (If I get any discrimination about being an atheist, I really don't care. I get it enough IRL.) :edgeworth:
Author:  Hikari [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I'm an atheist, but I've seen a lot more discrimination towards religion by aggressive atheists than towards atheism by religious people - not IRL but online, which might be the difference. It's the nutter conservatives who get all the press. Most religious people are just people - they aren't prejudiced wackos.

RE Edgeworth's beliefs, basically what everyone said about agnosticism. I think that's the most likely thing for him. I also think that what he believes in terms of religion isn't very prominent in his mind, that he doesn't think about it at all. After all, his morals and ideals are what he lives by.
Author:  dullahan1 [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Psht. Guys, get real. It's been proven that the only thing he believes in is logic.
Author:  Caper234 [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
hoshihoshi wrote:
Caper234 wrote:
Maybe, Some people say he doesn't have a soul....BUT his job is to make EVERYONE GUILTY!


But everyone is guilty. Of something.


BUT! Even if they are innocent!..well your right about they must of committed something in their life time
Author:  Superjay45 [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I just started playing 3-5 and when he said he was logical I knew for a fact he was Atheist. Religious and Logical do not mix.
I would know I am Christian
Author:  hoshihoshi [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Caper234 wrote:
BUT! Even if they are innocent!..well your right about they must of committed something in their life time


We're all guilty of some crime. Be it lying, stealing or traffic violations. You'd have to be a vegetable to be completely innocent. And even then I'm not so sure. :yuusaku:

Superjay45 wrote:
I just started playing 3-5 and when he said he was logical I knew for a fact he was Atheist. Religious and Logical do not mix.
I would know I am Christian


That's not always true. I personally know doctors, scientists, physicists, mathematicians, and architects who are deeply religious. There is a very long list of prominent thinkers in history who believe in God, including Newton, Mendel, Einstein, Faraday, Boyle, Descartes, Galileo, etc. Religious belief does NOT negate reason in a person. I used to think so, and Dawkins only fueled this thinking, but I've had many intense debates with my colleagues who are all doctors and extremely bright people who have been devoted to their religion all their lives. Religious belief in contemporary society has become far more progressive and is a personal choice, not at all reflective of the person's education or intelligence level. Stereotyping religious people as irrational morons is wrong.

And therefore we cannot completely discount the possibility that Miles, or any other characters, are religious.
Author:  Superjay45 [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Well I know I'm not saying "religious people as irrational morons" most are nice and moral people.

But to be completely honest I couldn't imagine Edgeworth worshiping anybody or anything I just don't think or see him as a follower/believer. But I could see just about everyone else believing something
Author:  hoshihoshi [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Superjay45 wrote:
Well I know I'm not saying "religious people as irrational morons" most are nice and moral people.

But to be completely honest I couldn't imagine Edgeworth worshiping anybody or anything I just don't think or see him as a follower/believer. But I could see just about everyone else believing something


No you said 'religion and logic do not mix', and thus you were implying religious belief makes a person irrational idiots. I haven't said anything about relgious people being unice and immoral - that's a totally different thing. You'd completely misunderstood me.

Again, being religious does not mean 'worshipping'. I doubt most people who have a religion will sacrifice livestock and build shrines for their gods nowadays. What Edgeworth believes in is logic, and things that he can see/touch, in other words, proof. His faith is in his ability to work things out, and his skills as a prosecutor. He believes in justice and fairness.
Author:  Hikari [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
^ What she said. More and more these days, religion is being attacked for being illogical and backward, when it's neither of those things. It's the person who makes it what it is and many believers have used logic when becoming religious in the first place.

I've been brought up all my life as a Christian, so even though I've decided I can't believe in God anymore, I guess I might be slightly biased..

But logic cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God doesn't exist, so being as logical as he is I think that Edgeworth is probably agnostic or just doesn't care.
Author:  Optimus Prime [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Edgeworth said that any limitations to the law were set by man. This is not true since the Ten Commandments were set by God.
Author:  Dark Coffee Drinker [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Optimus Prime wrote:
Edgeworth said that any limitations to the law were set by man. This is not true since the Ten Commandments were set by God.


He was talking about laws in out current judicial system. For example: "Weed and marijuana are illegal." Last I checked "Thou shalt not smoke dope." is not a commandment. That law was set by man. 10 commandments only reflect human morality and not what is best for the body.
Author:  DoMaya [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Hurr, everybody knows gay people don't believe in God!
Image
Author:  Dark Coffee Drinker [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
oicwatudidthar
Author:  Hilla [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I don't care if he is, because i'm atheist too.
It does nothing. But that's always good though.
Author:  Dark Coffee Drinker [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Hilla wrote:
I don't care if he is, because i'm atheist too.
It does nothing. But that's always good though.


True. I don't know but I've always wondered that. I thought that he was at least a skeptic because he wasn't as convinced as I was.
Author:  Ping' [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Optimus Prime wrote:
Edgeworth said that any limitations to the law were set by man. This is not true since the Ten Commandments were set by God.

> I see your point, but actual laws are always set by the people. Even when they're based on religious principles, they're merely a human interpretation of the word of God - hence why so many philosophers emphasized on the distinction between natural law (the real law of God) and positive law (law as it is applied in reality).
In any case, that doesn't have anything to do with whether Edgeworth is an atheist. There's no contradiction between believing that laws are created by human beings and believing in God ;p
Author:  Optimus Prime [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Croik wrote:
Optimus Prime wrote:
I think I'd be obvious if any of the characters don't have a religon. There are more people who believe in christianity and evolution after creation than those who believe that no one created the big bang.


How would it be obvious? Atheists don't usually go around proclaiming their lack of religion unless the subject comes up, and it doesn't usually come up in AA (except for the spirit channeling).

I assume that since hows like House MD and Bones have atheist protagonists, and those who have a religion wouldn't proclaim that out loud, I assume atheists would. For example, those who want the word god taken out of the pledge of allegiance would start an argument about how irrelevant religion is to patriotism. However, someone who places god above patriotism would only say something in response like "leave it as is".
Author:  Dark Coffee Drinker [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
Optimus Prime wrote:
Croik wrote:
Optimus Prime wrote:
I think I'd be obvious if any of the characters don't have a religon. There are more people who believe in christianity and evolution after creation than those who believe that no one created the big bang.


How would it be obvious? Atheists don't usually go around proclaiming their lack of religion unless the subject comes up, and it doesn't usually come up in AA (except for the spirit channeling).

I assume that since hows like House MD and Bones have atheist protagonists, and those who have a religion wouldn't proclaim that out loud, I assume atheists would. For example, those who want the word god taken out of the pledge of allegiance would start an argument about how irrelevant religion is to patriotism. However, someone who places god above patriotism would only say something in response like "leave it as is".


That example is just an example of wanting to be treated fairly. In this nation, everyone is supposed to be equal right? Well if in our pledge to be faithful to our country, 14% of americans wouldn't want to say that line. In the 60's, people thought that african americans were lesser people because they were the minority. Today, people who are atheists are in minority due to America being mainly a christian country. George Bush said himself that "Atheists are not American citizens. We are a nation under god." I bet that similar (not about atheism but about not being citizens) things were said about the civil rights activists and now, we feel bad for not letting them have freedom and how we got mad at them because they "proclaim it out loud". This nation wasn't founded underneath religion because people like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were called atheists. Even Abraham Lincoln is considered one today. The "under god" and "in god we trust" parts of American culture were introduced in the 50's. So, if we're sorry about what we did in the 60's, why repeat it today? Atheists can speak out if they want to without being classified as people that want to abolish religion and at every chance complain. As for me, I say "one nation under law." :3

EDIT: 300 post. I'm surprised it's not video game related.
Author:  Kartoon Kween [ Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
My money's on agnostic. There's no hard evidence that God exists, yet there is no hard evidence that suggests that God does NOT exist. I can't see Miles definitively saying that there are no gods, because there is no proof. That being said, I don't think he's the type to waste his time wondering about the Great Unknown. Rather than believing in concepts such as "the Will of God," he believes that human beings are responsible for forming their own destiny (at least, that's my interpretation of his character).
Author:  Phoenix Minamimoto [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I never really considered this, but I suppose it could be possible. However, I think the developers intentionally leave things like this in the game so we can speculate and believe whatever we want.
Author:  Robo-Aly [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
He's likely to be either atheist or agnostic, although agnostic has a higher probability (given how he feels about evidence, he may not want to form an opinion without any evidence).

With that being said, I must agree with those here who have said that you can't know. Religion isn't talked about much in the games other than the spirit channelling; most atheists and agnostics won't talk about religion unless it's brought up, and generally won't make a fuss about it unless being non-religious is negatively discussed. It's pretty much just how most religious people are (or I hope so, at least; I don't actually know that many religious people). It's not a common subject of conversation.
Author:  End Quote [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I dont think many people would still be religious over 10 years when PW is supposed to take place, especially not a "man of science" like Edgeworth is.

And I just hope this topic isn't going to become a "Religion vs. Atheism"-topic like most stuff ends up on the internet when religion is mentioned.
Author:  Hylian100 [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
I suppose I've never really thought about Edgeworth'sreligious views, but I tend to support him being agnostic, he values science and reasoining, yes, but that is when trying to determine someone's guilt, to ensure justice is served. Seeing as he's a man of evidence, and there is evidence in AA to suggest, even if there is no god mentioned, that the human spirit lives on after death. His personal life means he is unsure about this, of course, but he wouldn't rule anything out, especially not after seeing how Phoenix proved people's innocence through unconventional thinking.
Author:  Louise [ Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Edgeworth an atheist?
End Quote wrote:
I dont think many people would still be religious over 10 years when PW is supposed to take place, especially not a "man of science" like Edgeworth is.


Do you mean you think religion is just somehow going to slowly die out? 8|
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