Saying that "Klavier" is German name is also wrong. Mostly because that name just doesn't exist irl. Hell, even "Kristoph" doesn't really exist.

Using that as evidence they're German... It doesn't work well.

Was Mei not German, though? I heard something that Karumas are from Germany, but work in America...?

Hum, I was under the impression that Edgeworth helped Phoenix get his badge back because he wanted Phoenix to help clear Blackquill's name. Wasn't it Edgeworth who convinced Phoenix to become a lawyer again?

... I'm not sure what your point is actually. My point was that Edgeworth wasn't chief prosecutor during AJ, so he couldn't have been involved in the jury system, unless he did so without being chief prosecutor.

OBJECTION!

She does mentions that she skipped grades while in America (which is similar to what she says in the English version).

But Klavier is a German word, so it could count for both. Either an eccentric German piano-loving parent or a foreigner who thought it sounded cool. Christoph with a C isn't uncommon in Germany, though. The parent/s perhaps liked the more unusual way of spelling it?

As far as I know, the Karumas are Japanese in the original version, but I might be wrong?

Right lets see...

On the subject of a name determining Gavin's birthplace. It doesn't matter if Klavier isn't a 'common' name, a name can be anything there's hilarious and sad stories about what parents name their children. The point is Klavier is a German word, combined with his German mannerisms and dialect it points to him being from Germany. He said he studied at Themis but went to Germany to get his badge early. This only covers a bit of his education hardly all of it. I'll point again to Miss Turnquest the real life 18 year old attorney, her mother arranged a haphazard course of education from all over the place, there's nothing to say that all of Klavier's education was at Themis especially when he says he went to Germany to get his badge early.

Kristoph coincidentally is a Greek name in origin meaning "Bearer of Christ"

As far as I know, the Karumas are Japanese in the original version, but I might be wrong?

By the way, where do you get the Japanese script for GS5?

The point is Klavier is a German word, combined with his German mannerisms and dialect it points to him being from Germany.

Not sure what mannerisms you're talking about, but for the dialect, Athena does the same thing, Franziska doesn't.

Hmm... To be honest, I never saw that as a problem, myself. I think we're taking things a little bit too much the hard way. I mean, it's work of fiction, and Japanese at that, right? Some lines here can and will be crossed.

I believe the important part here is her backstory, which is...

I don't think it was the intention of the writers to make her perfect (which she isn't since she had two nervous breakdowns while defending someone)

Those breakdowns are certainly a flaw, but I don't think they were handled well, or are nearly enough to make up for all of Athena's amazing gifts. The problem is that while she does freak out, she recovers really quickly, and this problem doesn't affect her at all outside of those two short instances. If you remove just five minutes of gameplay, you can completely remove this flaw from Athena. If they wanted to make it a real flaw, they should have had her constantly stuttering and swallowing her words in court. She wouldn't need to speak like Mike Meekins, but to me, if it was going to be a real flaw, it would need to manifest itself for more than five minutes of gametime.

Huh. Maybe it is similar, but definitely not the same. I can see that Sligneris pointed out some differences already. The least I can mention that this "complete stranger" (I thought they knew each other before that...? Athena's dialogue in detention center seems to suggest that.) was not blackmailed or anything of the sort.

Saying something is "just like X" rips off the whole potential of it. You could say that Turnabout Reclaimed is just like Turnabout Big Top, yet I don't think anyone has a reason to complain about it... right?

Scroll down a bit in the thread I linked; I explain why none of Sligneris' complaints are valid :P
Okay, "complete stranger" was a bit of exaggeration. (The fact is, we don't really know how close Athena and Blackquill actually were prior to UR-1, so... *shrug*)
The blackmail is really a minor point. The overall structure of the two cases/stories are extremely similar, although the details vary; the blackmailing part is just one of those details.

So uh...while watching a walkthrough of Ghost Trick on youtube (what? I don't currently have the money to import it! Stop judging me!) and I immediately realized something.

...SL-9?

What kind of surpassed memories were there...? I thought she clearly remembered pushing an unidentified "shady figure"...

Uh, okaaay...? I think we don't anything to do here but to agree to disagree... Her powers were explained as soon as Case and Case 5, though...

Uhhh, refresh my memory on that? Where specifically did they explain her powers?

They pretty much explain her ability from the start. <.<

We know what her powers do, but we don't know how her powers work.

That's what I think Thane meant.

I think we might theoretically assume that she can hear minimal changes in a voice's volume and distinctibility, long before regular human beings would notice it. Let's say she can hear even the slightest quiver or tensing of the voice, and she learned how to interpret these signs. That would make it an actual hearing ability, and maybe Widget is just for finetuning.
Just making up random theories off the top of my head, of course (I haven't finished case 5 yet), but it's how I could imagine it working.

Yes, you're correct. It'd be hard to miss what her powers do considering how often they're used. I'd love to know whether or not her powers are hereditary, if they're necessary to operate Widget and if Widget was made specifically for her for that very reason and exactly what she hears when she hears the "voice of the heart", and how exactly hearing is related to knowing what kind of emotional state someone is/was really in. If she could constantly hear let's say, hearts suddenly beating faster, or just blood flowing in somebody else's veins (and hers), she'd go insane within minutes.

The problem then would of course be the sections where people's emotions are going berserk. One would assume that's when practically anybody can hear someone's terrified or angry, for instance.

That's a fair idea to show what the writers were thinking, but she hardly had to be in it at all if that was the case, only for the finale though it wouldn't be quite as touching since she'd be a character only associated with that case and like it or not, her coming off as smart and amazing is a side effect of her young age.



That's right, Franziska had achieved it by the tender age of thirteen. She also had a father who knew the Justice System inside and out, was filthy rich and had massive amounts of influence in the legal world. Klavier was born in Germany where education is fast-tracked and has a brother in the legal world who also is pretty well renowned. Even then he barely beats Athena to the punch and doesn't have a Psychology degree to go with it. Athena has...nothing at all to suggest she could fast-track her education in law.

Also while they spend an indeterminate amount of time getting those achievements, Athena spends explicitly 7 years getting everything. So don't think of it as Franny and Klavier accomplishing something really early. Think of them accomplishing it in 13 years...and 17 years...then Athena seems even more out of place.



What ability? Her use of "psychology" is vague and questionable at best. She wasn't a particularly remarkable student (least it wasn't mentioned she was particularly smart. She had poor attendance due to her medical condition, her mother certainly didn't teach her psychology (since Athena felt her mother neglected her and spent no time with her) so there's no evidence of any special ability. Besides people didn't believe her on the stand why would a University Head agree to take on a little girl because she claims "I can hear the voices of the heart!", hell at that age she probably didn't even know how her power 'related' to psychology.



Probably, though I don't think people blew it out of proportion. Her character is pretty rushed and forced upon us probably in part because of the Mood matrix but people are right to be irritated at her when she leaves so much unexplained and has so much under her belt.

As for whether shes a Sue because she has breakdowns or not? Nah Sue's can be vulnerable, the point is everyone wants to be there to support them when they feel weak. I'd guess Apollo overcomes this but I'd say that's more to Apollo's good writing rather than Athena's character though especially since he's portrayed as being pretty 'villainous' at the time.

...I must say... I'm honestly surprised. I didn't know that people had so much problems with Athena in the first place. I do hope it's not the same in the Japanese fandom, because if it is... She'll probably be brushed off in the future stories, making her insignificant. I really don't want that to happen to one of my favorite characters...

...Wait. You spend entire 15 pages discussing flaws about Athena and her story? Well, that's about it. Goodbye, Athena.

...What. Athena as an android... What. That makes no sense at all. ...But Widget on the other hand, totally has wi-fi. I mean, can't you just picture Athena browsing net on these holograms?

...Well, to be honest here, I do not acknowledge these problems myself... I mean, how exactly is being open for interpretation or going a little bit unrealistic in your work of fiction such a big problem anyway...? But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Pierre, since Slig obviously isn't coming back to answer your arguments, shall I have a try at raising counterarguments? I recall that what has been questioned throughout this thread is summarized well in one or two of your posts. Well, I'll first need to figure out which page it's on... ^_^;

To avoid previous arguments I'll just list previous explanations I find inadequate-

1: But Klavier and Franny!

Klavier is heavily implied (in the same way Laguna is heavily implied to be Squall's dad just not stated which is, all but certain) to be from Germany, land of super education. His older brother might also have pulled some strings for him. Being a successful band is good but he makes sure his prosecution comes first and the guitar is something you can easily learn in your spare time. Themis Legal Academy (where Klavier spent time at) even advertises a 'Battle of the Bands' in one of those posters in the hallway (I'm pretty sure), where else better to found the beginnings of a law-themed rock band?

Franny HAD the super-hyper-must-achieve parent approach from a parent dedicated to their job with massive amounts of influence in the field, he could easily home-school and influence her into the prosecution position.

Athena has no connection to the field of law, and it's indicated she has a good level of knowledge about psychology warranting proper education at somepoint. What we KNOW is that she was not exceptional in school and had poor attendance. Her mother could have been an option to teach her but it's actually established in the game that she always thought her mother was cold to her and too busy with work to spend time with her.

2: Her powers exist in the real world! How can you say they come from nowhere with no explanation? Apollo is just as bad.

As BP said, they don't exist in the real world like they do in AA. Your article indicated people who can hear pretty well but nothing about hearing the 'voices of the heart' as Athena plays it up. Even then just because it's inexplicable in real-life doesn't mean it has to be in a fictional setting which just comes across as poor-writing.

Also there is no causal source of her powers in the world, not from her mother, no idea about her father, not from anything really, it's just something she has. Is it a genetic mutation? Is she actually an android? Is it all just Widget doing the work? No one knows because it's never clarified. This makes Athena look WORSE because they are just ticking the "superpower" box on protagonists rather than justifying their abilities. Apollo's is justified with his bloodline, DOES exist in a form in the real world and does have some actual explainable mechanism to it.

3: So what if she has things they are all explainable by the fact she lived in a high-tech place!

Yes she does live in a high-tech place but even so the level of amazing technology associated with her (namely Widget) is on such an advanced level that the like of which is seen nowhere else. Even at the Space Centre, things may be dressed up to look futuristic but the technology is all pretty much as it exists now the Dress up is for the tourists. Widget is a portable, mind-reading device with a built-in projector and a function for analysing emotions. I cannot emphasise enough how mind-reading is the deal breaker here. Nothing of it's level is shown ANYWHERE in the AA universe. The Space Center may have Robots with somewhat-realistic AI (though they are more like tour guides) but they are nothing in the face of this technology. The argument just doesn't hold up me. What's worse is this amazing technology is UNIQUE to Athena, the only one of it's kind so intricate that even she barely knows how it works. They could have included a throwaway line about how "It's a new device for the field of analytical psychology!" instead of being the only one of it's kind, taken out the mind reading stuff (that's just inexplicable and they never made much use of that quirk anyway) and said she saw someone else using one on her course abroad. THEN I'd accept Widget as believable.

It pretty much boils down to sure it comes from a high-tech place, but it's at least future-tech level and it's not believable even there. It also makes her too 'special' in that only she has it.

That's our opinions that I'd quite like to see an answer from you about. There might be more complaints but these just seemed like the commonplace ones off the top of my head.

Oh-ho I'm glad you said that allow me to explain