Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Spoiler: Case 2
It allowed them to put her in promotional material without technically lying.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Spoiler:
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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No spoilers, but I really liked case 1. That's as much as I'll say about that.
Case 2, though, hasn't been as great for me so far. I don't know if it's just the fact that I was tired playing through, but the investigation on the first day so far felt like it dragged on too long. Also, I thought Blackquill was ridiculous initially, but as I play through the first day of the trial, he just takes my initial thoughts and amplifies them. I don't know if this is good or bad, but we'll see.
Anyway, I might pop back in once I complete it or something. Who knows.
--Millini (Official CR Rock Prince and Gavinism convert.)
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Spoiler:
And don't forget Pearl!
Spoiler: Case 5
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Also, as I was playing through, I felt pretty shocked by the negative stuff I had heard about Athena's character. The complaints don't make sense to me. Everything I'd heard beforehand made me go into the game expecting her to be a Mary Sue, but once I was playing it she didn't come across as one at all. Just the fact that she's young doesn't really cut it, especially given her circumstances.
I do have a couple issues with the game, but they're not huge. I just really enjoyed having a new Ace Attorney game to play.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Bad Player wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Spoiler:
And don't forget Pearl!
Spoiler: Case 5
Spoiler:
As soon as the last of those videos was uploaded, I knew all the returning characters would become cameos. Since we didn't get a video of Pearl, I hoped they were keeping her and Maya's appearances secret. And that's pretty much how it went, so I don't have much to complain about....If GK3 takes place before GS4, the team could take that chance to explain how Edgeworth and Blackquill met. Huh, perhaps I've just stumbled upon a plausible plot point of the newest GK game.
Edit: Oh, yeah. I've gone through part of case 5 again and was reminded about something.
Spoiler:
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I liked all the chapter plots, although it kinda orginally annoyed me that
Spoiler:
but I changed my opinion quickly after finishing both of them.
I don't want to spoiler too much, but I really enjoyed CH3 + CH4/5 twists.
While CH3 was predictable, CH4/5 really surprised me.
I'd give CH2/3/4 a 4.5/5 and CH5 a 5/5.
I really liked the ending of this game, and out of the series its probably my favorite after T&T.
Simon and Athena are both great characters, and I loved how they developed to the better with the flow of the story.
All I can say is that I'm not disappointed and I'm looking forward to GS5!
Also, now that
Spoiler:
I'd be really happy to see Gumshoe return!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Bad Player wrote:
And...
Spoiler: Major Case 5 Spoilers
Spoiler:
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Athena: "Don't worry! I've got this!"
Apollo/Phoenix: "Wow, you're really amazing!"
I mean I think having a somewhat competent sidekick in the courtroom is pretty cool, especially one that knows law after all it worked for Mia and Diego in the past. However I just feel that she outshines them...so often in this game.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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It was a little bit strange, though, before I played the game I thought I will love all the returning stuff like Psyche Locks, Perceive, Pearls, etc. But in the end I loved all the new stuff. The Mood matrix is the best game play mechanic in my eyes and I like basically all the new characters. Athena is such a nice character and I will praise her all the time as well, so I don't care whether you call her Mary Sue or whatever. The characters I liked the most however were the three friends in case 3, Junie, Robin, and Hugh.
I also can't get enough of these gorgeous and hilarious animations and wished we could have rips of them like of the old 2D sprites.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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By the end of this game I reckon it'll be one of my faves ;-; god the game is so beautiful
see how it withers before my flower of justice
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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linkenski wrote:
And thus she became a Mary Sue because the writer didn't take enough care with balancing the dialogue. It really does baffle me neither of the GK team guys noticed how forced the Athena-praise was in the end.
The praise was justified.
Spoiler:
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Pierre wrote:
It seems more an more in this game I keep hearing:
Athena: "Don't worry! I've got this!"
Apollo/Phoenix: "Wow, you're really amazing!"
I mean I think having a somewhat competent sidekick in the courtroom is pretty cool, especially one that knows law after all it worked for Mia and Diego in the past. However I just feel that she outshines them...so often in this game.
Athena: "Don't worry! I've got this!"
Apollo/Phoenix: "Wow, you're really amazing!"
I mean I think having a somewhat competent sidekick in the courtroom is pretty cool, especially one that knows law after all it worked for Mia and Diego in the past. However I just feel that she outshines them...so often in this game.
Spoiler:
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I like most of the new characters. Simon and Bobby are great (and have awesome themes). I was surprised I wasn't a big fan of Simon at first but he definitely grew on me. However, I'm not sold on Athena (though I love her objection theme). I agree that there is a lot of Athena praise but I've learned to bite my tongue and move on. However, I'm finding her a little annoying because her character is very extreme.
Spoiler: minor spoilers?
As for returning characters, I've only seen one who had a decent-size role.
Spoiler: case 3 spoilers
One thing that surprised me is my love for the soundtrack. When I first heard the music in court, I thought they were awful but they've grown on me a lot. The character themes are very good. I'm also in love with the search themes.
I have a few other things that bothered me about the game but I don't want to make final judgments until I finish. Overall, I like the game, but it hasn't really wowed me yet.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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defenses wrote:
Spoiler: case 3 spoilers
Yeah, I was expecting a comment on that as well.
Also in case 3,
Spoiler: Case 3
Last edited by NinjaMonkey on Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I used to have Sam Waterston as my avatar but photobucket added a watermark and also Law & Order has been cancelled for 10 years so it's time for me to move on.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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The positive:
Blackquill is AMAZAH, I think my favorite part is where he just leaves to take a stroll.
The cases are fairly intriguing, even if you can predict a lot of twists.
Case 3 probably had the best breakdown in the entire series.
The humor is definitely on par with the original trilogy. I must confess I'm also a fan of the (depending on how you see it) subtle sex jokes.
I really like the music.
Phoenix is handled beautifully so far; he's like the Mia of the new generation of attorneys.
The negative:
Athena is EVERYWHERE and knows everything. I literally facepalmed when I found out she apparently also knows martial arts. It's also painfully obvious right from the get-go how her character will develop. I have yet to be given a reason for caring about her.
The act leading up to the final testimony of the third case was so cheesy I couldn't stop cringing. Also, the trial itself could've ended in a better way; it dragged on for too long and grew more ridiculous by the minute towards the end (and not in the good way).
They talk about 'the dark age of law' as if it were some kind of hit movie you've never seen; everyone casually references it and you have no idea what they're talking about.
While I overall enjoyed the second case, it was far too easy and the premise was ridiculous and hard to swallow.
The cutscenes are almost as cheesy as a Naruto friendship speech.
Random thoughts:
I'm convinced there's more to Bobby Fulbright than meets the eye.
They could handle certain themes with more subtlety.
Apollo has friends?
Nice to see you again, Klavier! Hey, where are you going? And what happened to the accent?
Last edited by Thane on Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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M5432 wrote:
Up to Case 4, the game has been very glitchy so far.
...
1. The dialogue review became useless by the end of Case 2. Over three quarters of it is just blank. It usually shows the character name but no dialogue, but occasionally it doesn't even do that.
...
1. The dialogue review became useless by the end of Case 2. Over three quarters of it is just blank. It usually shows the character name but no dialogue, but occasionally it doesn't even do that.
Yeah, this happened to me once, too, during second case. Also, when examining one of things in Case 5, I've got a message with tag "Invalid Message".
D.A. McCoy wrote:
People are specifically calling out Case 3 as one of the best in the series, if not the best.
I can agree here. It's certainly one of best in the series and best in this game.
Chess wrote:
Dissapointed at length, but that could just be me.
Well, yes, it appeared a little too short for me, too. DLC case is ahead, but still...
I think the game has too few checkpoints (less than other games in series). I felt that a few trial sections were too long and could be really split with checkpoints (during recesses) like in previous games, where trial day was usually split into two parts. Since I was really trying to stop gameplay only at checkpoints, I finished it rather quickly. If there were more checkpoints, it'd probably took me one more day to finish game and perceived length would be longer (I don't think game is actually short, it took about 35.5 hours for me to complete). Not sure anyone follows my logic, but that's what I thought.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the game. It's a great addition to the series and could be my new personal favorite AA game.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Thane wrote:
Nice to see you again, Klavier! Hey, where are you going? And what happened to the accent?
Must've still been bitter about the poll-ratings incident. Who woulda known, huh?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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39300 wrote:
D.A. McCoy wrote:
People are specifically calling out Case 3 as one of the best in the series, if not the best.
I keep hearing people say this, can anyone tell me exactly why its so good, without spoiling anything for me. I've only just finished case 1.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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GyakutenGodot wrote:
39300 wrote:
D.A. McCoy wrote:
People are specifically calling out Case 3 as one of the best in the series, if not the best.
I keep hearing people say this, can anyone tell me exactly why its so good, without spoiling anything for me. I've only just finished case 1.
Fun characters, interesting setting and premise, great mystery with lots of twists and turns as you solve it.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Aside from the corny friendship speeches, Athena's lack of self-confidence, and Klavier's pointlessness, this case really knows how to "turn things around", so to speak. I admit that the twists may be predictable sometimes, but the final confrontation with the villain of the case and that breakdown are definitely worth it.
It's also one of the cases that better represents the overlying theme of the "Dark Age of Law", where even an educational institution isn't free from corruption. What appears to be something at first turns out to be something completely different, or even contradictory. The fact that Athena takes on this case, as opposed to Phoenix or Apollo, also better shows her growth as a character and lawyer. In a way, it's to sort of build up to what happens later in the game.
...Also, statues make a return as important evidence. Yay, statues!
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Lusankya wrote:
What? Apollo is helping Athena all the time.
Spoiler:
Thane wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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TheIdioteque wrote:
Spoiler:
He was out cold, all they needed to do was leg it!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Overall, I still like T&T and the original more BUT this one is right up there for me. I enjoyed playing all the cases, and they didn't feel like there's like one I would skip on a replay like I do with say, JFA. I feel like they took advantage of the new technology fairly well and though some people have complained about each attorney having their own gimmick I like it. It offered a fair bit of variety in what we could do each case and there feels like appropriate limits to each other (for ex, Apollo not being able to use his powers against Blackquill as long as Taka's around and his human lie detector abilities working against him in the narrative; return of Black Psych Locks; Athena's relying heavily on having evidence to support what she finds).
In terms of Athena's character, I don't consider her a mary sue. She's not my favorite assistent but in terms of general personality and stake in the plot, I feel like it works. The nice thing about her is that she can actually do more in trials, unlike Maya and Trucy who eventually tapered off because their abilities weren't needed as much, because Athena's interests are similar to Apollo and Phoenix. Plius, I enjoy her interactions with the rest of the cast, especially Apollo with how much they play off each other as senior/junior employees. I also didn't mind her having accomplished as much as she had despite her age partially because of her motives/where she got it done. So far, AA-verse has established Europe as the mystical land people keep getting their jobs way too early so given Klavier and Franny, Athena being over there and deciding to push to for it when with her motives made sense.
In terms of Apollo, I'm actually really looking forward to when they get to his story. I didn't mind the character himself in AJ, but he suffered being just a replacement or stand in for Phoenix. Even when this game felt like it was more about Athena, Apollo got a lot of nice moments, clear characterization, and you see more sides to him in his work, relationships to Phoenix and Athena and Trucy, and hints to his backstory. I also actually really liked the reason for him covering his eye, since it shows a double-sided edge to his power. I wanted him to keep the jacket but oh well.
For Phoenix, he definitely felt like a supporting protagonist but that's not a bad thing. You see traces of both old Phoenix and Hobo!Phoenix, especially when you see him through Apollo and Athena's POV. If they phased him out more in the next game or gave him fewer cases, I wouldn't mind at all. It really feels like he's around to guide the next generation than anything else, much like Edgeworth and his comment about how he doesn't get to be in the courtroom much anymore because of his position and new duties.
Definitely worth the play, overall.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I'm in the final bit of Chapter 4 and ever since somewhere into chapter 3 I've felt like the "humorous-characterization" of most characters startest stilting. I have laughed probably once genuinely since I beat case 2 and it's kinda bugging me. Occasionally Phoenix does come up with good lines in case 4 but it really feels like the comedic side of the script has stilted since the funny introduction with case 2... or maybe it's just as funny but they keep reusing the same "tropes", if you will in humor.
Agree, disagree? Am I just biased again?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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...Ask someone else.
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
In terms of Athena's character, I don't consider her a mary sue. She's not my favorite assistent but in terms of general personality and stake in the plot, I feel like it works.
Hey, someone who sees it my way. I can see why she can be annoying, but it's not entirely her fault. It's tough being the latest "teenaged girl sidekick", and she just wanted to stand out. She ended getting more than she bargained for, though.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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linkenski wrote:
I know I'm whiny and moany about a lot of things but I simply HAVE to ask for your opinion on this...
I'm in the final bit of Chapter 4 and ever since somewhere into chapter 3 I've felt like the "humorous-characterization" of most characters startest stilting. I have laughed probably once genuinely since I beat case 2 and it's kinda bugging me. Occasionally Phoenix does come up with good lines in case 4 but it really feels like the comedic side of the script has stilted since the funny introduction with case 2... or maybe it's just as funny but they keep reusing the same "tropes", if you will in humor.
Agree, disagree? Am I just biased again?
I'm in the final bit of Chapter 4 and ever since somewhere into chapter 3 I've felt like the "humorous-characterization" of most characters startest stilting. I have laughed probably once genuinely since I beat case 2 and it's kinda bugging me. Occasionally Phoenix does come up with good lines in case 4 but it really feels like the comedic side of the script has stilted since the funny introduction with case 2... or maybe it's just as funny but they keep reusing the same "tropes", if you will in humor.
Agree, disagree? Am I just biased again?
It was meant to be darker, I imagine that's reflected in more serious cases the more important they get to the plot.
Case 2 struck me as filler, a chance to introduce the new characters but with no actual connection to the themes, overarching plot or 'dark age of the law'.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Overall though, I enjoyed the game more than I thought I would. The humor is great, Phoenix's involvement is just right, the music is great, the mood matrix is intriguing, the breakdowns are fantastic, and the cases and characters are for the most part interesting, which could be considered the most important of all.
Also, I love the thought route. It's a nice way to tidy things up in a wonderfully dramatic fashion, even if you can't fail it.
However, the game is not without its fair share of flaws.
1) My number one complaint is, as I thought it would be even before I started playing, Athena Cykes. I won't start yet another debate regarding her supposed status of a Mary Sue, but I WILL say that she shares a lot of similarities with (my interpretation) of one. She's 18, a lawyer, an analytical psychologist, pretty, knows martial arts, rarely wrong, constantly praised, her possessions are important, has a 'special gift' and only the villains really dislike her. She's also basically omnipresent and plays a huge role in every single case; I REALLY felt like the game would be better off if she were at least a little older and not constantly in focus.
Spoiler: Case 5 spoiler
Honestly, I'm surprised Phoenix and Apollo managed to accomplish anything without her, considering how all-important she is.
And make no mistake, this is not Phoenix's story.
2) The 'Dark Age of the Law' thing feels so distant and vague that I wonder why they even bothered having a 'theme' to begin with. The one exception would be case 3.
3) Villains lack interesting motives.
4) Odd pacing, especially towards the end.
5) This may just be me, but I felt like it was sometimes hard keeping track on who did what and when at numerous points in several cases, which confused me.
6) The length of two cases baffled me.
Spoiler:
Random thoughts:
How can the mood matrix even be allowed in court? It's not evidence, and only Athena can operate it (though that should come as a surprise to nobody). It also makes me wonder why people immediately confess what they felt once they've been caught.
I expected more of Blackquill's manipulations - we barely saw any of that.
Spoiler: Final boss spoilers
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Racing through the sky like a Missile
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Thane wrote:
1) My number one complaint is, as I thought it would be even before I started playing, Athena Cykes. I won't start yet another debate regarding her supposed status of a Mary Sue, but I WILL say that she shares a lot of similarities with (my interpretation) of one. She's 18, a lawyer, an analytical psychologist, pretty, knows martial arts, rarely wrong, constantly praised, her possessions are important, has a 'special gift' and only the villains really dislike her. She's also basically omnipresent and plays a huge role in every single case; I REALLY felt like the game would be better off if she were at least a little older and not constantly in focus.
Spoiler: Case 5 spoiler
That's pretty much what a Mary Sue is, except for one particular point: how exactly is she "rarely wrong"? Two reasons why she's constantly praised: (1) she's constantly wrong and fights to correct herself, and (2) she has trauma-induced breakdowns. I admit the attempts at reconciling her are rather corny friendship speeches, but not many things reach a person in that state anyway.
Spoiler: Response
Quote:
6) The length of two cases baffled me.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Quote:
Random thoughts:
How can the mood matrix even be allowed in court? It's not evidence, and only Athena can operate it (though that should come as a surprise to nobody). It also makes me wonder why people immediately confess what they felt once they've been caught.
How can the mood matrix even be allowed in court? It's not evidence, and only Athena can operate it (though that should come as a surprise to nobody). It also makes me wonder why people immediately confess what they felt once they've been caught.
Only Filch does that. Everyone else has to be a pain by making the trial more complicated than it needs to. You said so yourself that case 3 dragged on.
It's allowed because Udgey said so. Haha, "therapy sessions".
Quote:
Spoiler: Final boss spoilers
Spoiler:
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Spoiler:
I know, I know, but it still didn't make sense to me. It just felt like a cheap ploy to make the case longer.
Spoiler: Big Cheese spoilers
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Racing through the sky like a Missile
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Spoiler: Well...
More seriously, the team has taken almost every possible route for an introduction of Athena's character. From hence forth, she won't get to be the center of attention anymore. Whether or not Yamazaki was planning more for her, fan input will have a large impact on the development of the next games. Most likely, the next game will return to developing the plot holes left from Apollo's game, but I really hope that game won't shift the spotlight onto someone else *coughPhoenixcough* again.
Spoiler: Endgame
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
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My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
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My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Yeah, I woulda preferred if Apollo stayed suspicious around her from the beginning, rather than suddenly turned around and left the office just like that. It'd make the overall plot feel just a little more intertwined.
More seriously, the team has taken almost every possible route for an introduction of Athena's character. From hence forth, she won't get to be the center of attention anymore. Whether or not Yamazaki was planning more for her, fan input will have a large impact on the development of the next games. Most likely, the next game will return to developing the plot holes left from Apollo's game, but I really hope that game won't shift the spotlight onto someone else *coughPhoenixcough* again.
Spoiler: Well...
More seriously, the team has taken almost every possible route for an introduction of Athena's character. From hence forth, she won't get to be the center of attention anymore. Whether or not Yamazaki was planning more for her, fan input will have a large impact on the development of the next games. Most likely, the next game will return to developing the plot holes left from Apollo's game, but I really hope that game won't shift the spotlight onto someone else *coughPhoenixcough* again.
Spoiler: Endgame
Not to mention it might've even showed us that *gasp* not everybody thinks the best of Athena all the time? I know, it sounds crazy.
Heh, yeah I know, I was mostly joking. I loved Blackquill, and that scene just proved he had a somewhat normal sense of humor as well, even if it was a little dickish. Still, the two seemed to respect each other there at the end.
That is precisely what I'm hoping for. Honestly, given all the hype, I was expecting Apollo to do more this game than he actually did. Introducing a third protagonist was simply not a good move in my eyes. With any luck, they'll make something along the lines of Apollo Justice II next; there are still loose ends to be tied up there, after all, and it would be an opportunity to develop Apollo further (I feel like there's still a lot of potential left in that lad).
And while we're at it, we could give Klavier some emotions.
Plus, I wouldn't mind seeing Kristoph charming his way out of prison. Honestly, seeing him in the Wright Anything Agency all of a sudden with that grin on his face would be AMAZING. I mean, he screwed with three out of four people in the Agency pretty bad.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Surf's Up!
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Spoiler: Case 3
Thane wrote:
I mean, he screwed with three out of four people in the Agency pretty bad.
What did he do to Apollo, again?
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Ace Nobody
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Other than that, I'm loving the game. The character's are great, all the cases so far (I've played up to 3) are really fun and interesting, the music is amazing, and the graphics are spectacular.
I'm nervous and excited for cases 4 and 5, and I'm loving it.
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