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5-5 thoughts (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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I thought for most of the case, this was really interesting and exciting. It was great facing Edgeworth again, just like the old days.
But the reveal of the killer was just batshit crazy - I mean
Spoiler:
having Fulbright be the Phantom was crazy enough, but then he kept turning into everyone else and we didnt know who he was, this felt very "WTF?!" even for AA. Why wasnt it shown at the end? Maybe we could have seen he had a scar on his hand from 7 years ago or something


It did feel like a similar story to 1-5 in places too but the themes of trust and self doubt made me think, and were pretty dark.

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grim_tales wrote:
I thought for most of the case, this was really interesting and exciting. It was great facing Edgeworth again, just like the old days.
But the reveal of the killer was just batshit crazy - I mean
Spoiler:
having Fulbright be the Phantom was crazy enough, but then he kept turning into everyone else and we didnt know who he was, this felt very "WTF?!" even for AA. Why wasnt it shown at the end? Maybe we could have seen he had a scar on his hand from 7 years ago or something


It did feel like a similar story to 1-5 in places too but the themes of trust and self doubt made me think, and were pretty dark.

Aura Blackquill - lesbian? :o


Spoiler: Scar
I've mentioned it before, but I suspect we have already seen the scar. When Bobby pumps his fists, there's a cross-shape/X-shape on the back of one of his hands. You can see it through the glove. And it's the same hand that Athena stabbed as a young child.

Of course, it's just a theory, but IMO it all fits.

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Re: 5-5 thoughts (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler:
I wish we could have seen the killer's 'real' face though or even just the plain mask so Athena could have 'recognised' the face. I guess an interesting point arises about masks/identity with it though..?
I really liked it but now I finished it, it seems slightly disappointing if they hint at something very big behind the scenes (spy/phantom) and then not really show them

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But the whole point of the phantom is that he is just that, a phantom, a endless abyss as he put it. He has no real identity because he's always impersonating someone else. So, why show his face? It would be just a random and irrelevant face that we didn't see before and de we won't see again. It's more interesting this way, IMHO.

Athena couldn't have recognisez him because he was wearing that japanese mask when she stabbed him.
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Yeah, I know what you mean
Spoiler:
but I was hoping for a reveal who sent the Phantom out, and stuff. Who killed the real Bobby Fulbright, was it the Phantom himself or someone else?


And
Spoiler:
I want to believe Fulbright was a good man but I wonder also if his true side was actually an asshole and the Phantom was just 'acting-acting' (ie, pretending to be on the side of Justice while actually being a bastard, thats complicated) :s

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grim_tales wrote:
Yeah, I know what you mean
Spoiler:
but I was hoping for a reveal who sent the Phantom out, and stuff. Who killed the real Bobby Fulbright, was it the Phantom himself or someone else?


And
Spoiler:
I want to believe Fulbright was a good man but I wonder also if his true side was actually an asshole and the Phantom was just 'acting-acting' (ie, pretending to be on the side of Justice while actually being a bastard, thats complicated) :s


Who says this can't be solved in the next game?

Spoiler:
I mean,revealing the organization that hired him would have been too complicated for one game.

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That's true. In a way I feel the writers tried to do too much, they made it easier for new players but had to write a compelling story at the same time. I hope GS6 ties everything up.
Also about the
Spoiler:
Black Psyche Locks.... Pearls says that they mean a person is holding secrets they dont even know are there - so was this the case with Kristoph's locks in AJ? TBH when I saw those in DD, at first I was thinking Athena had actually killed her mum (but didnt mean to?) maybe lashing out at her using her as a guinea pig

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grim_tales wrote:
That's true. In a way I feel the writers tried to do too much, they made it easier for new players but had to write a compelling story at the same time. I hope GS6 ties everything up.
Also about the
Spoiler:
Black Psyche Locks.... Pearls says that they mean a person is holding secrets they dont even know are there - so was this the case with Kristoph's locks in AJ? TBH when I saw those in DD, at first I was thinking Athena had actually killed her mum (but didnt mean to?) maybe lashing out at her using her as a guinea pig


Spoiler:
I think it can also mean that the person is in extreme denial of the secret...maybe,in a way,Kristoph himself did not really "know" why he killed Zack...

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Nymeria wrote:
Spoiler: Scar
I've mentioned it before, but I suspect we have already seen the scar. When Bobby pumps his fists, there's a cross-shape/X-shape on the back of one of his hands. You can see it through the glove. And it's the same hand that Athena stabbed as a young child.

Of course, it's just a theory, but IMO it all fits.

Spoiler: Hold On
I'm pretty sure that the "X" shape you speak of is a stress mark, commonly used in animations to exaggerate the fact that the character is stressed. The actual "X" itself is meant to be their veins being shown because the hand muscles are stretched out (because his fist is balled up in anger). And normally, you wouldn't be able to see anything, scar, veins, or otherwise, through those gloves in the first place.

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TheBlackquillz wrote:
Nymeria wrote:
Spoiler: Scar
I've mentioned it before, but I suspect we have already seen the scar. When Bobby pumps his fists, there's a cross-shape/X-shape on the back of one of his hands. You can see it through the glove. And it's the same hand that Athena stabbed as a young child.

Of course, it's just a theory, but IMO it all fits.

Spoiler: Hold On
I'm pretty sure that the "X" shape you speak of is a stress mark, commonly used in animations to exaggerate the fact that the character is stressed. The actual "X" itself is meant to be their veins being shown because the hand muscles are stretched out (because his fist is balled up in anger). And normally, you wouldn't be able to see anything, scar, veins, or otherwise, through those gloves in the first place.


In other poses, for example his default pose, you can see that the mark is not there.
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I've been replaying the case and I have a doubt. Did the phantom enter the Space Museum during his escape or did he just stay in the corridor?
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He probably just stayed in the corridor as there was no reason to go in the museum. I assume the person who moved Athena's unconscious body was Clay Terran
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Why would he go into the museum? xD "Oh I just killed someone, but I've heard the exhibition is pretty good, so while I'm already here..."
(Unless I've missed something, that is)
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JesusMonroe wrote:
He probably just stayed in the corridor as there was no reason to go in the museum. I assume the person who moved Athena's unconscious body was Clay Terran


But why would he do that? He was carrying around the hope capsule and Starbucks and he had a fake heroic scene to stage. He wasn't in the best situtation to move her for no reason. I always assumed her trauma set her in some kind of semi-uncouscious state and she wandered around until finally passing out. I mean, I don't recall nobody bringing up that someone move her while she was asleep and that's not something you just ignore.
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Nobody could bring it up because Starbuck was unconscious and Clay was dead. I don't know why he'd do it. Maybe he was afraid she'd wake up and look down the corridor and see something she shouldn't. Maybe he didn't want first responders to see her if they peeked into the Space Museum (he'd just call Cosmos and say "By the way, an unconscious chick is in the back of the Space Museum. I suggest you get her out of there.") In a situation with bombs going off, Clay couldn't think rationally and with his irrational mind, he felt moving Athena was the rational thing to do. Your explanation with the fugue state makes sense, too

Just wondering, why were you concerned about whether or not Fulbright went into the museum or stayed in the corridor?
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Athena said she passed out (the night before the bombing) when looking at the HAT-1 exhibit, and then woke up hidden in the shadows behind the rocket. As far as I can remember, nobody says anything about how she got there.

Did Clay see her? If he did, would he have time to move her? He had to stage the rescue scene and he had to do it while Starbuck was unconscious.

I don't think the Phantom had time to do it, because he had to get to his escape route. Remember that Cosmos showed up right after Clay was murdered, and switched the launch pads once he entered the room.
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Nobody could bring it up because Starbuck was unconscious and Clay was dead. I don't know why he'd do it. Maybe he was afraid she'd wake up and look down the corridor and see something she shouldn't. Maybe he didn't want first responders to see her if they peeked into the Space Museum (he'd just call Cosmos and say "By the way, an unconscious chick is in the back of the Space Museum. I suggest you get her out of there.") In a situation with bombs going off, Clay couldn't think rationally and with his irrational mind, he felt moving Athena was the rational thing to do. Your explanation with the fugue state makes sense, too

By nobody bringing it I meant that when she tell phoenix about passing out at the Space Museum, he doesn't even think something like "Wait, so you woke up in a different place from where you passed out? That's strange." And she doesn't make a big deal of it either. She doen't make a deal at all, actually. I'd be a little worried if I knew someone move me while I was asleep. Although to be honest, I'd also be a little worried if I passed out in a public place.


Quote:
Just wondering, why were you concerned about whether or not Fulbright went into the museum or stayed in the corridor?

Well, I didn't though he moved Athena (I'd understand if he had taken the time to plant her actual fingerprints on the lighter or just kill her, for that matter, but to hide her in the shadows? That just doesn't make sense), but I thought he might have seen her there (he has to know that she was there somehow if he was trying to frame her). And for some reason, the corridors retract in the animation about the launch pads switch, and that's very confusing.

MBr wrote:
I don't think the Phantom had time to do it, because he had to get to his escape route. Remember that Cosmos showed up right after Clay was murdered, and switched the launch pads once he entered the room.

I don't know about that. There was that confrontation with Arme, and if I recall correctly, the pads have to be switched from the control room. We also don't know how long takes the switch or the speed of the pads while they're moving. Maybe a elite spy like the phantom could have pulled off something like that. Still make no sense for him to do it, though.
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It certainly is strange that nobody brings it up, which does make me think that your fugue state explanation is most likely. As for how Fulbright knew Athena was there, I'm assuming he saw the same security footage of her walking out that Apollo saw?

The pads are switched in a different location by different people. All Cosmos did was unlock it and I'm assuming they were moved immediately afterward. IIRC, Edgeworth did say how fast they moved and it was around 20 mph
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I've come to realize that the best part of 5-5 for me is its name, Turnabout for tomorrow. It's almost reason enough not wanting a GS6 because that is the perfect endcasename. It just sounds great, and there's the double aspect with the case both putting an end to an era and beginning a new tomorrow, and the urgency of clearing it up today as Simon's execution was scheduled for tomorrow. Also, the intro music is awesome and creates a suspenseful atmosphere.
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Going for Miles wrote:
[...] and the urgency of clearing it up today as Simon's execution was scheduled for tomorrow.


Thought about that too, which made me sad. In a good way.

I love that intense, emotional bloody trials when you have to prove the innocence of both Simon and Athena. Aand the addition of Edgeworth was appreciated. Too bad that sappy ending with the masks and shite ruined... a lot.
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I think the Phantom is the weakest final villain in the series, tied with Alba. We see just how his crimes affected numerous characters, but when we get him on the stand, his excuses are very poor. The second he pulled off his Fulbright mask was when he lost credibility ("Well, you see, I can change my face and voice like the guy you're after, but I'm not the Phantom. Trust me.")
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In his defense, he had already lost all credibility when he did that. Every villain, beyond a certain point, just stops trying and pulls out the 'You can't prove it' routine.

But although I like the Phantom and especially all the concepts in him, he really left to be desired as a final villain and I find DD to have the third less satisfying ending in the series. The last trial segment felt like everybody ganging on a guy that wasn't all that powerful or clever. In the end, I almost felt sorry for him, because it was just so unfair. And some parts of the way to get him are just cheap (the lighter and the footage).
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luck wrote:
And some parts of the way to get him are just cheap (the lighter and the footage).

To be fair, the lighter was all on him (he could've just, y'know, not burst into court with it), and also his fault for just walking by a security camera when doing the job (the fact that nobody bothered to watch the entire camera record for 7 years was also luck/incompetence)

They were certainly cheap from a storytelling POV, but not in terms of everyone unfairly ganging up on one person.
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I meant they're cheap in the storytelling way, which is something I also dislike of DD's ending, apart from the Phantom vs the world thing. My problem with that isn't that everybody picks on him (that has happened before with better results ) but that it didn't seem neccesary (since he isn't exactly a chessmaster) and that makes it feel unfair.
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The return of edgeworth basically this was my reaction




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I always felt that the kidnapping wasn't as effective as it could have been. 2-4 beats that by a long shot, because it kept Phoenix from dropping the case. But he has no reason to do so here. He's committed to defending Athena and Blackquill right from the start.
I suppose this ties in to the overall plot of the game, but Edgeworth said he wanted Phoenix to clear Blackquill of suspicion. Why then, is Phoenix learning about Blackquill's case the day before he's to be executed?
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The kidnapping was needed because otherwise people would just complain about how stupid it was that they had a trial in a dilapidated courtroom

I think the best way they could've played it is if Aura took everyone hostage but they made it extremely clear that Trucy wasn't in any danger and she was deliberately hamming it up as a damsel in distress. That's the route I thought they'd go at least
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Yeah, the kidnapping never really felt urgent to me.

MBr wrote:
I suppose this ties in to the overall plot of the game, but Edgeworth said he wanted Phoenix to clear Blackquill of suspicion. Why then, is Phoenix learning about Blackquill's case the day before he's to be executed?


...That's a good point.
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I think the kidnapping was an excuse to get everyone inside the courtroom that was bombed in order to symbolically end the Dark Age of the Law in a destroyed courtroom.
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Scent wrote:
I think the kidnapping was an excuse to get everyone inside the courtroom that was bombed in order to symbolically end the Dark Age of the Law in a destroyed courtroom.

Despite the cast not being AAI-levels of bloated they still kept finding ways to just use returning cast as plot-devices (also Pearl's conveniently appears to repower the Magatama). I think part of it is we're getting so far into AA-history that fanservice is just more likely to happen especially when DD partly reunites AA-trilogy members with AJ:AA members and DD's own unique cast. The problem of having this many characters and integrating them in the plot then becomes, like Trucy and her kidnapping, there's not enough time to flesh out each individual bit and instead we get a series of events that coincide but a lot of it ends up feeling rather underdeveloped or contrived.

I like to think AA6 has a chance of evening things out by... literally evening things out with splitting the cast up into two seperate places, but there's new characters to introduce as well, and probably most likely, more returning characters we didn't see in DD they're bringing back and probably Athena is unavoidable.

I just hope even though I like Trucy that they either send her or Athena on vacation somewhere. Perhaps Trucy is on a school trip? I just want the general cast to be reduced a bit and if not, there needs to be 6 cases to make proper room for the increased cast size.
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In regards to the cast, yes it's getting too big. And I'm afraid with newer games it'll only get bigger still. I played the Trilogy recently and never noticed that they managed to tell great stories with smaller casts than DD boasted.
We see the effect it had in DD; Trucy was useless in the game until she was kidnapped. Her role as an assistant has been taken by Athena.

Anyway a thought on the kidnapping of the case under discussion.
Spoiler:
I had a thought: what if instead of using Trucy as a hostage Aura instead used Juniper? It would be done to try to force Athena to confess as it would free both Juniper and Blackquill.
Also, Starbuck was at the Space Center, so maybe he was taken hostage? All we got was Trucy and some nameless people taken hostage. What if characters from 5-4 were reused for the hostage situation?

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