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About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32093		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ash [ Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
So I was going through some Japanese sources for GS Library, when I came across some tidbits about the infamous "sibling of Franziska", and as it doesn't really fit within GS Library's range, I figured I'd write it down here.

In fandom, people sometimes mention the fact that Franziska has an elder sister, who has at least one child. While the fact that Manfred von Karma has a grandchild has been mentioned in the first game, the fact that Franziska has a sister (and not a brother) has often been taken for granted. In this post, I'll point out why.

First of all, the fact that von Karma has a grandchild is mentioned AA1-4, on the last day when you need to point out a connection between Yanni Yogi and the DL-6 case. The following is a translation of the Japanese script (so not the localized script):

Turnabout Goodbyes, final day wrote:
Bah! That is nothing more
but mere coincidence!

The pet dog of my grandchild
is called Ryū.

Attorney! Do you mean you are
my grandchild's fiancé!?

My grandchild is only seven years old!


Obviously, considering the ages, this line implies that Franziska has one elder sibling with a child. By the way, I think the localization says specifically granddaughter, but the Japanese only says grandchild and makes no suggestions as to the gender.

Some might consider this to be a mocking joke by von Karma, but it really doesn't look like that in the Japanese script. Nowhere throughout the game does von Karma mock Phoenix like this by simply telling a lie, so it would be a very strange time to suddenly use a joke like this. His whole argument here is that coincidences *do* exist, so he's obviously pointing a true fact that has a coindental link to the case. But more importantly, the line is really just stating a fact when he says his grandchild has a pet dog. The fact he even specifically states his grandchild is seven years old (in a different, extra text window in the Japanese version of the game) really implies nothing more than that he stated a fact.

And the developers themselves also consider the fact real enough that they point it out in other materials. In Gyakuten Saiban 2 Shinsō Manual (which despite its name, is not the manual, but a walkhrough/guide), there is a segment with early character designs of the characters, which includes an "interview" section, where Maya interviews the character in question. On the page with Franziska, it says:

Gyakuten Saiban 2 Shinsō Manual wrote:
Q: Do you have any siblings?
A: I have an older sister who has her own family. She has a child, with a pet dog called Ryū.


As this is a guide, the question of how official this tidbit is open for debate, but this is the official guide for the game, and extra material from the guides have actually been made it to official canon. Edgeworth's fandom of the Steel Samurai for example comes from a manga Suekane (main character designer of the first game) drew for the guide for the first game (Takumi says here).

In a 2014 interview about the Ace Attorney Trilogy for 3DS, Iwamoto (character designer for AA2, 3) also mentions the fact that Franziska has a sibling, though he apparently thinks the older sibling is a brother.

Quote:
Interviewer: Are there characters that have been rejected?

Iwamoto: I create characters following the scenario, so in general, there are no characters that have not been used at all. But, there is a scene where Karuma Gō talks about his grandchild, and Mei (Franziska von Karma) is his daughter, so we know that Mei has either an older brother or sister. I once draw a sketch of “Mei’s older brother” just for fun. Among the rejected rough sketches of Gyakuten Saiban 3’s Godot, there is one I myself see as the brother of Mei. I once told this to the director, but he just ignored me (laugh).


So it seems apparent that the developers at least consider it a fact that 1) Franziska has an older sibling, 2) who has a child with a pet dog called Ryū, even if other details are open for debate.
Author:  Nado13579 [ Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
I was always interested in seeing whether or not Franziska's sibling was a prosecutor or not. We never hear anything about them, but I have a feeling Manfred wouldn't have settled for any less when it came to his children. If they didn't become a prosecutor, I'm willing to bet they had some other well-respected career to make Manfred proud.
Author:  Ash [ Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
Shouldn't the older child be born around the start of von Karma's undefeated career? I can almost imagine von Karma simply being very good at his job the very first years, when he's still raising his first child "normally", and gradually getting more fixated on obsession later, which had its influence on how Franziska was raised. Perhaps the two were raised *completely* different.
Author:  MBr [ Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
You're right that the English localization makes the grandchild a female.
Manfred von Karma wrote:
"Bah! A mere coincidence, that's all! My granddaughter has a dog she calls "Phoenix." Well, Mr. Phoenix Wright? Does this make you my granddaughter's fiancee!? She's only seven years old!!!"


I'm not so certain on the history of the von Karma family. Have they always been prosecutors? If so, then Manfred would raise Franziska's sibling the way he raised her.
Author:  Silver-Dono [ Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
MBr wrote:
You're right that the English localization makes the grandchild a female.
Manfred von Karma wrote:
"Bah! A mere coincidence, that's all! My granddaughter has a dog she calls "Phoenix." Well, Mr. Phoenix Wright? Does this make you my granddaughter's fiancee!? She's only seven years old!!!"


I'm not so certain on the history of the von Karma family. Have they always been prosecutors? If so, then Manfred would raise Franziska's sibling the way he raised her.

I'm not sure, but I think so. DGS spoilers below:
Spoiler:
I heard somewhere that Asougi's sword was named Karuma, same characters as the Von Karmas have in their name. This has supposedly led to speculation that Asougi will return as a prosecutor named Karuma, having faked his death.


That aside I would love to have a sister for Franziska, rather than a brother (I feel like a brother would remind me too much of Kristoph), and wow. This would be awesome to have in a story!
Author:  Ash [ Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
In this interview/discussion with the AA6 staff, they are asked which character they'd like to see return to the series again in a (hypothetical) future game and Franziska turns out to be a popular choice, so they might bring this all up again in a next game with her back (perhaps not as a plotpoint, but just as a random reference, like how von Karma talked about his grandchild).
Author:  MBr [ Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
Or I wonder if the mystery von Karma will appear.

Although, the reason Franziska appeared was because of her connection to Edgeworth. I suspect the mystery von Karma was out of the house when Franziska was growing up, since she was only competing with Edgeworth.
Author:  Ash [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
I was looking through the Gyakuten Kenji Official Investigation File guide/artbook, and there was a pretty interesting rejected character design among them that has to do with this topic.

Spoiler: GK2 end-game spoilers!
On the pages with early designs for Sota, you find out that that in the very early planning stages of the game, the final boss of the game/Sota was supposed to be von Karma's son! I am going to guess they played with this because of the father/child theme of the game, but still, it's a bit surprising.
Author:  linkenski [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
I bet they wanted to do it but it would've been too divisive to add another Von Karma and make them another murderer or something... But then again, the father/child theme would've been strong and the kidnapping plot point would've made it strange we hadn't heard about it previously when the second child of Manfred was mentioned in JFA.
Author:  MBr [ Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
Spoiler: GK2
Well, maybe not a villain, but I think the Investigations had the opportunity to expand the von Karma family, considering it is a game about prosecutors. All we got was the fourth case of the first game.
Perhaps von Karma's son/daughter could have taken the role of Courtney/Hakari, being the one pulling the strings behind the rival.
Author:  Ash [ Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About Franziska's sibling / von Karma's other child
If that one character had turned out to be von Karma's son, his backstory would obviously also have been quite different. The story and character backgrounds change a lot in the early planning stages for all AA games, so I guess we'll never know what they exactly had in mind.

Spoiler: GK2-3
Though it would have been funny to see von Karma participate in a sweets competition.
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