You are welcome Ms.FrauleinEvaKatze.

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Our thread has now reached absolutely legendary status. Page count is that of the answer to life, the universe and everything.



That is all. Carry on.

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Yes it is....yay Hitchikers guide to the universe.

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This place seems pretty big already...

Got room for another

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Always and welcome to the family!

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Thanks

There isn't enough phoenix/maya in the world :/

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Very true and hope you have fun on here!

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I'm sure I will

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Yep and remember were a family here so don't feel nervous if you are....

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Don't worry, I don't

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Can I...maybe... be part of this group hug?

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Heh, of course. Come on in, have a seat ... Everything's fine, have a nice time ...

... while I draw Miego fanart. lol. xP

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I love Miego!!!111one!!

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A Miego is fine too, as long as they continue to give their blessing to Nick/Maya. =p

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Like me!
Favorite pairing: Miego
2nd favorite pairing: Phoenix x Maya

Everbody wins!

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Miego comes 3rd to Edge/Franzy and Apollo/Trucy. 1st is of course, Phoenix/Maya.

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You know, I have always wondered what would happen if a Fey and a Gramarye had a child....
It must be done.... FOR SCIENCE!

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The world would explode if that happened

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This is.. a family? *melts* ;_;
Here's that similar fanart I mentioned before. Forget which site.

Oh that guy, exjumbo finally replied to the [now] Phoenix/iris vs Phoenix/Maya 'debate' I mentioned earlier. I hoped he'd give up, but, seemingly not...
so long.
Ideas are nice if anyone wants to be bothered. (Also how to conclusively end the damn thing)

Gimme a summary of everything, and I'll see if I can help... with the debate thingy that is...

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Group hugs... wow indeed... ah well... I suppose we are all sort of family here heh...

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...

There's nothing on exactly WHAT and WHY would Phoenix want to get back with Iris. Forgive me, but there's pretty much nothing in those two exchanges regarding Iris and Maya. We're not trying to connect them with Dahlia, Godot, the Gramaryes', even Diego/Mia, this is about the Phoenix/Maya and Iris triangle alone.

Of course, if you want to end it, just say it bluntly, "Go off into your perfect Phoenix/Iris paradise with flowers and birds while Phoenix/Maya area has a more sensible and realistic theme."

...I'm not actually saying that you should say that, but yeah.

Oh, and if I've somehow misinterpreted everything(it was getting kind of confusing), then don't pay attention to the whole paragraph above.

Order of my top three favorite pairings:

Phoenix/Maya (No duh)
Diego/Mia (You know, I never really liked merging the names such as "Feenris" and Miego, I prefer to just write, er, type them out.)
Edgeworth/Franziska

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Yes we are all a big family!

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I 'forgive' you... feedback is useful! (wanted.) So, not totally clear.. are you implying that I should be asserting all the great qualities which would make Maya a, you know, WORTHWHILE and useful romantic partner for Phoenix, whereas Iris is... not much beyond a 'romantic idea' and abstraction originally based around the illusionary ideal of a 'love gift' and attraction to Dahlia? (And some physical attraction to Iris, yes, but really... there are millions of people anyone would be attracted to.)

(Also, in my own defense, the 'debate' wasn't originally only about Phoenix/Iris vs Phoenix/Maya, hence all the other stuff... the debate was originally over that I didn't think the writers intended us to see Iris as a strong chance of the 'canon implied future relationship after 3-5.' And it still kind of is. But 'pull back on topic' excellent advice.)

The problem is, I can't even tell what kind of point that you and exjumbo are trying to argue anyway, and I'm not sure what I'M trying to imply either, eheh. >.>

...I guess all I'm trying to say is that you guys aren't talking about Phoenix-Maya Iris anymore.

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Hahah he's the one who decided we had to destruct every point of argument and every point of my claims, not me..
But your feedback was very useful. It at least got me thinking. I was assuming he'd eventually run out of ways to try to fault my argument (he's getting a bit more desperate) but maybe he won't. It's clear (as I suspected, but you've just confirmed this) that it's time for an additional tactic. You've helped me think of some.

Also, I have to take better control of this and force him to play up against the strengths of the Phoenix/Maya concept and the weaknesses of the Phoenix/Iris concept. And.. have you noticed that the pairings are, in effect, the opposite of each other in terms of basis? I have to find the biggest weakness in Phoenix/Iris and the unrebuttable canon facts of Phoenix/Maya basis (aka 'prove that this can only ever be a 'familial' relationship???').

DISCLAIMER: IRIS FANS I'M SORRY IF YOU READ THIS THREAD (yes this is a slight exaggeration)

Phoenix-Iris - Based on almost nothing, except some sudden physical attraction to Dahlia (which was successfully transfered to Iris but, even the Judge is seduced by Dahlia) and some kind of abstract concept of a romantic love token confession. (And it did seem to revolve around this because why else wouldn't he give the bottle up?) Very nice in the.. short term...might have been great if they could have had the most.. basic communication. Real life devastates their little world. (Hey, why didn't Iris go to the trial and see Feenie if she cared? Dahlia was safely with police and... oh never mind..). On return... um well yes there's physical attraction but.. they hope to continue their little fantasy world now? They're in love - because they are? What do they see in each other? How do they benefit each other?

Phoenix-Maya - *sigh* well we never get any romantic love confession (but Phoenix never gives a confession to Iris after 3-1, only Iris ever professes anything implying continuation) but the idea is for this in future... what we do get is love of the most extreme kind (in far greater intensity than anything displayed by Phoenix<->Iris) and a relationship which seems to be so beneficial to each other, it's like they've found their 'other half'. All of which springs up in the space of 3 years, arguably even by 1-4 things have reached a pretty intense level of attachment after less than a year (and I have trouble thinking a 'sibling only ever bond' could spring up that fast - siblings grow up together since, birth practically, and are children when they meet.. and..).

Apart from just seeming to genuinely enjoy each others' company (friends) they actually seem to be each others' emotional support and stability (this is getting more interesting). And seriously, "Maya 'might' get hurt' seems to be an unbearable proposition to Phoenix (one he indeed risks his life over without thought... wow.) and of course 'Maya is dead' is about the worst thing in the universe.

And they somehow seem to function better together - it's Maya who provides the invaluable assistance to Phoenix to allow him to solve the cases and excel in his law career - but it's nothing to do with her being a great legal mind, Phoenix does all the law stuff, she's just seemingly complementary in supporting him and going to extremes to do so. The sidekick! but a very interesting take on one too... (and I get the feeling things would be similar if Phoenix was not a lawyer, but some other vaguely similar game... the relationship ceased to be about the law firm or even Mia by the end of 1-4, that's just the excuse.)

And, even more tellingly, it seems Maya is just as benefiting from Phoenix's tacit belief in her - that's what motivates her to finish her spirit medium training, helping Nick, and arguably what gives her the courage to even take the Kurain Master position, and certainly what helps her get through Mia's death, the attempts to murder her (and we can but hope, Misty's death.) Oh and Phoenix actually mopes disfunctionally without her even as early as 1-5. Unlike Iris, they'd actually die for each other and prove it. And there's various hints alluding strongly to possibilities of [future] romance and even some kind of crush on Maya's part.

Unfortunately, we never get the actual on-screen romance or reporting on its existence. But we get the entire basis for the relationship and indeed the entire relationship and even the intense love. The partnership runs so deep... we just don't get some kind of assertion of additional romance during the actual games (though the entire framework for their romantic relationship is beyond built. The most beautiful of romantic partnerships - just add romance?).

Phoenix/Iris? There's an assertion of [past] romance and a stronger hint of physical attraction (but there's enough evidence that Phoenix and Maya are NOT un-attracted to each other, so forget 'sibling' on that count) but no basis and framework for an actual deeper relationship out of this.. or even love beyond 'we are in love because of um a romantic idea' - there's no going to great lengths to save Phoenix or help him on Iris' part, like Maya does for Phoenix.

Basically, the strengths and weaknesses of the 'pairings' are the opposites:

Phoenix/Maya - STRENGTHS: intense, intense love, emotional and functional partnership running so deep on so many levels, hints highlighting strong potential for romance, proven to overcome significant life challenges, proven even to die for each other. Are the most necessary people in each others' lives, indispensable. WEAKNESSES: No on-screen romance or romance confession, only vague evidence to physical attraction.

Phoenix/Iris - STRENGTHS: proven physical attraction, romance history and confession (NOT in present for Phoenix though). WEAKNESSES: Evidence of disfunctionality in relationship beyond 'romance', little basis to deeper relationship outside romance, precedent of not handling life challenges, Iris' loyalty in question - precedent of NOT having Phoenix as priority, precedent of not being most important people in each other's lives, lack of direct relevance in present to each other's lives

Well, sorry that was long... arranging my thoughts I guess?

@Icer

Phoenix did seem pretty mopey in the beginning of 1-5, didn't he? If I remember correctly, phoenix wasn't willing to take ema's case until ema reminded him of Maya...

The biggest piece of evidence of phoenix/maya for me was in the beginning of case 4 game 2



I swear that case 4 was written by pearl's her self...

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Shelly wasn't mistaken though, as Phoenix proves when he laments "I can't even save the person closest to me" (or something along those lines) later on in the case, so there we go.

Hi, I've read all the pages; can I join the club?

@Concerto: Don't worry, this thing here isn't something you need to sign up for or something. Just come on in and post with us!

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But the prerrequisite is there of reading all 42 pages before joining alright. =p

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I think the prerequisite is being an undying supporter of Phoenix/Maya.
You have impeccable taste, Equilibrate Concerto.
*showers confetti*

Thus why I mentioned reading all 42 pages; because if you do read them and by the time you finish you're not brainwashed enough to love this couple, you're definitely not from this world. =p

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Thanks for the welcome =) I love this pairing; Phoenix/Maya is one of the first that I really support (Meaning, I can’t think of any others; or perhaps it’s just so good that it makes me forget any other pairing I may have liked in the past? Hmm). The pairing just makes so much sense; their personalities are pretty much made for each other! I’m also very much obsessed with the bridge metaphor. I hope that being somewhat a fan of drama and tragedy is not a turnoff. XD

... Yup... Pearls wrote that case herself, I'm sure of it now XD

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http://www.green.dti.ne.jp/gallop/gallery-gy.html

Nice gallery with some cute Phoenix x Maya pics.

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Yes, I agree, I certainly have never liked another pairing to this extent (which I'm sure everyone is relieved to hear, due to my rabidity over this pairing ^_^; ) What's the most I've even done with any other ship in anything? Drawn a token fanart or 2 pretty much.. but the way the game was set up (and the drama, the epicness, the sheer extremes of the series) I feel they deserve to be together, if you know what I mean? It certainly seems to be the thing that would genuinely make them happiest. The 4th game just accentuates this belief (hey, they don't seem to be together, and he's become a grape-juice addicted evidence forging hobo. Proves my point!) Meh, maybe I should just contact Capcom's 'customer service feedback' and demand that Phoenix and Maya 'get to be together'.

Drama? Oh yes (this pairing is kind of dramatic actually. Ohh we'd do anything even die for each other! Electrocution! Burning Bridge! Hostage Victim!) Tragedy? Uh, please don't have Phoenix and Maya die? By the bridge metaphor, you mean the burning bridge? Did you have some exciting deep-and-meaningful to expound on it?

Actually, speaking of tragedy, one of saddest things I read is this fanfic. Do read the prequel first, which is an extremely lovely Phoenix/Maya story which doesn't result in tragedy.. yet. But in the story after (I must admit I skimmed it, and only read the scenes with Phoenix or Maya) Phoenix is mortally wounded and dies while Maya is at the hospital bed and it's so sad, not just because Phoenix died but because of the way Maya reacts, it's like it's not even an unusual thing any more to her to have somebody die in front of her, just yet another tragedy. Awww and they were engaged but never even got married *sob*.

Heey there!

Have just finished reading the new posts in the debate at GameFaqs... Icer, I think you should tell him to stop using illogical comparisons with other videogames/televisionprograms. I mean you can't compare PW to Numb3rs or the other game he mentioned (I forgot the name )

Hope to read your response soon!
Btw, does it take you 3-4 hours to respond aswell? Cause that is an awfull long time

Believe me, I will, I already have but he doesn't get the idea. By the way, it would be really helpful if someone else could describe here exactly how such other references are totally irrelevant, he doesn't seem to get it the way I explain it so far, maybe he'll get somebody else's phrasing? (Also, I'm tempted to make up my own illogical comparison to Phoenix/Iris in some random TV show, just to give him a first hand impression of how dumb it is to ref like that... but I never watch TV.)

I'm not sure how long it takes to reply.. I write the answers on paper now, since I can do it whenever and while multitasking. In fact I've written replies to all his points, I just can't be bothered to type them yet. Also, I've been writing my (hopeful) 'debate killer'. We're getting too bogged down in petty detail. I'm going to force him to 'prove' some nice weaknesses in the entire Iris concept. Sigh.

This is a bit random, but I have to ask anyway since this is the Phoenix Fan Club.

Dopes anyone have Phoenix Wright's character profile image from Apollo Justice? I could really use it, I recently got the Hobo hat and I wann paste myself by where Phoenix's face is.

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You rang?

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