:larry:
When I read a walkthrough for GS3 I found online, I found their interaction to be rather cute! Larry, having given up on models and almost given up on dating in general (I think), was trying to reinvent himself and had become infatuated with Ayame. (Though, I'm not sure if he ever found out that Phoenix and Ayame dated in the past. Not that it would really make a difference, but...) When Ayame got arrested for murder, first thing he did was contact his other old buddy, Miles Edgeworth, to take Nick's place as her defense attorney until Nick got over his really fast cold and was ready to stand up in court! Since Godot was also missing, Edgey decided to contact Franziska to take this case. (And really, since the one thing she ever wanted to do was to prove her skills as a prosecutor to him, what better way than going head to head in court!) Since Larry is a witness, this is how the two first meet. Now for the character comparison.

Larry
A man who was a sucker for pretty ladies (and models at that), throughout the first game (and most likely the second game too), he was being manipulated and used by those girls. He worked so hard to earn money to spend on them and they all used him, visited Hawaii and then left him for/after visiting Paris (kinda makes me wonder what it was about Hawaii that made them want to leave him and why they ALL went to Paris...)

In GS3-2, we see him trying to date girls who are apparently already taken (one had a boyfriend and the other was ,a married woman!). Now that's going a step backward! And somewhere in the middle of all this, he grew to distrust women. However, he became infatuated with Ayame (who was a sweet temple girl, and not taken) and was inspired by her and by Elise Tenryuusai's illustrations. Faith in women renewed and having found something new to drive him (he no longer lives for women! He lives for art! Really!), he then set off to reinvent himself, to be reborn you might say, as Mashisu (Mathis) Tenryuusai. When his new mentor, Elise Tenryuusai, is supposedly murdered by his new crush, he witnessed the unbelievable and is called to court as a witness.

Now all this time, I've been talking about Larry and Ayame. I don't see this working out. As one of Phoenix's best friends, Ayame would be too guilt ridden to maintain the relationship. Not to mention that she really doesn't seem to feel anything for him. Larry's letter regarding her secret? Ayame thought it was about GS3-1, but it was really about Larry's "passionate relationship" with her!

Sorry for the massive tangents. Back on topic. When he's called to court, he finds a new point of "inspiration".

Franziska von Karma.

First thing she does is whip him because she caught him sketching her from the gallery! Now this woman is definitely unlike any Larry has ever met before! The models recognized him as a sucker, flirted with him, used him, then threw him away. But Franziska... She's a force to be reckoned with! Clearly strong and independent, we know there's no way she'd ever use him the same way the models did. Oh sure, Ayame is sweet and gentle, but she lacks the impact that Franziska has. And even though Larry himself doesn't know it, I've already explained why Ayame would be too uncomfortable in a relationship with Larry. Franziska has a powerful personality, carries herself with confidence and pride, is straightforward and honest about her opinions about everyone (hey, first thing she did was whip everyone in court!). This sort of bluntness was missing in Larry's previous relationships! Every time he asked to sketch her as his new inspiration, she said "no" (and whipped him! :3)! She needed no flattery! She didn't set up any conditions (like say... "I will if you buy me a new overly expensive outfit"). She might have considered it a possible attack to her dignity (but at least Larry isn't Dr. Hotti, you know?) and let him know it by retaliating! Ooo!

Franziska
When we left her at the end of JFA, as was explained in many other essays, Franziska had to start over. The von Karma creed was soundly disproven, shattered, stomped on, thrown away, incinerated, and thrown out with the rest of the trash for being crude and outdated! So here was this 18 year old girl, Father gone, "younger" brother who had "abandoned" their family a year ago, no longer knowing what to do. She threw away everything until "younger" brother had come for her to remind her of her pride (in other words, "Oh look! You finally caught up with me! Too bad I'm going to keep going! If you give up, then bye! I'm not looking back!"). He reminded her of the true meaning of "prosecuting", lost within the obsession of perfection in the von Karma creed. She's a prosecutor and it's her job to fight in court for the sake of justice (and fight for it with her whip! :D). So, just like her brother did in the previous year, she set off on her own journey to find herself and what prosecuting really means to her.

And in GS3-5, she returns, still very much the same in many ways, but very different in others (I think... Like I said, I never got to play that third game), to prove herself against Phoenix Wright and to Miles Edgeworth (though I think that pitting her against Edgeworth directly, was most satisfying to her). She spots Larry sketching her from the gallery and it irks her. When Larry is called to the stand, first thing she does is whip him and tells him not to sketch her! I'm sure a little later, Miles Edgeworth tells her about how he, Phoenix, and Larry were friends in grade school and everything. To Franziska, Edgey is a little brother. Phoenix is a worthy opponent to the both of them. Larry... Oh goodness, did Miles Edgeworth ever even mention Larry before this? He's rather different! In fact, in spite of all the whipping, he doesn't cower and run away like everyone else! He keeps coming back! Why does he keep coming back?! How vexing!

Larry himself is definitely quite different from the other people that Franziska has met, I'm sure. Franziska was born and raised to be a prosecutor. Miles Edgeworth was going to be a defense attorney, but was adopted into the von Karma family, became a prosecutor, and even after going on his soul-searching journey, is still a prosecutor. Phoenix Wright became a defense attorney because of Miles Edgeworth. But Larry? Larry is a very free spirit, never sticking to one job for too long (though he's most likely fired from all of them... and goes out of business when he's self employed like in the samurai dog stand). Indeed, Larry seems like the spineless type. He doesn't keep facing Franziska because he wants to prove he's not afraid of her or her whip. He keeps facing her because she facinates him. And that would facinate her too I think. Furthermore, he's currently trying to be born anew and as someone who had just returned from her own journey, I think she could relate to that! A spineless sucker facinated by pretty women? And he wants to become a new man? SHE CAN HELP!! (XD okay, I'm kidding about that obsessive whipping part, but you know she would!) Anyway, at the end of GS3-5, they do interact again, and this time Franziska actually says something... borderline positive to him ("Well, I suppose it's not bad" or something like that), and apparently gives him permission to sketch her as evidenced by the color pencil drawing of the main characters after the credits.

Conclusion
Larry is a job-drifting flake, a free spirit. Franziska is a whip happy disciplinarian (is that even a word?), a strong and driven individual. How does that saying go? Opposites attract? :3
But in all (not really) seriousness, I can see it work. Larry would appreciate Franziska's blunt honesty (though not her whip...) and Franziska could learn to loosen up a little (but still stay rigid enough to keep Larry in line). Plus, they both gave up certain aspects of who they were while keeping true to themselves.

I don't like this couple because, despite being canon, it feels to me like one of those pairings you're meant to *assume* was really deep and meaningful, without ever actually *seeing* it. The series has very few canon pairings, but those that exist are usually displayed clearly. It's very obvious that Yuusaku and Mareka love each other deeply, and it's pretty obvious that Gumshoe has a crush on Maggey in 3-2. But most of what we get from Kaminogi/Mia is the game telling us "btw, they were together."

The only time they really interact directly is in 3-4. We're meant to assume that they've known each other for a while, having worked in the same office. But though Kaminogi spends the entire time calling her "kitten" I don't think Mia ever responded to him in a receptive way. She looked up to him as a senior, sure, but Young Mia is all about being flustered and...well, young. She was a nervous wreck. I wouldn't consider any of their interactions in that case as having a distinct romantic or sexual tension. They were too busy losing their case (OOPS).

Not to mention that Mia is so different once she's grown up, I just have a very difficult time imagining how she would have acted in a relationship with Kaminogi. Except maybe him sexually harassing her while she tries to work... We never see them AS a couple.

And then there's the rest of the GS3. Godot claims he's doing it all in Mia's name - avenging her, and trying to forgive himself for having failed her. And Mia's part of the story focuses on her trying to get back at Chinami for having "killed" Kaminogi. So why don't they ever get the chance to interact?

Mia should have recognized Godot the moment she saw him. So why didn't she try to say anything to him? Why didn't she warn Phoenix, or even... ask Phoenix to ask Maya to summon her again outside of court, so she could speak to him? At the very end of 3-5, even Phoenix and Maya seem more upset over Godot's fate than her. I think all she said was, "It was the only way you could have saved him," or something. We're talking about her former lover who KILLED HER MOTHER and is probably going to die soon himself, and that's all the emotion we get out of her?

Of course, this is the same Mia who was more concerned with teasing Phoenix than saving her sister from the death penalty in 2-2, so maybe that's just how Mia is. But I don't think it says much for whatever relationship she had with Kaminogi.

Sure, Kaminogi's kinda hot, and Mia's got big boobs. Aesthetically they're a hot couple. But Kaminogi's a walking ego and Mia's kinda insensitive. A combination for hot office sex, maybe, but I can't really see them as a romantic couple.

What do you make of Ayame talking about Phoenix visiting her in the detention centre, during the credits?

- I did say Ayame would still have a place in his life, that he would be willing to make room for her. Well, maybe it's wishful thinking, but considering that she's Pearl's half sister and I love her to death and back, I HOPE she still has a place in Phoenix's life.

- Notice that Phoenix didn't go see her alone, which would be a MUCH stronger romantic indicator. In the very least, Pearl was there too. And even if she slapped him...uh, let's keep in mind that Pearl slapped Phoenix for talking to MAREKA. It means that Phoenix and Ayame had a nice atmosphere as they always do, but it doesn't say much about them actually hooking up.

- Don't forget what Bikini said about Ayame coming back to Hazakurain. That also hints that she's not going to be pursuing a romantic relationship, since the emphasis is on her going home at the end instead of anything having to do with Phoenix.

- I think Ayame still loves Phoenix, and she's very proud of what he's become. I think a part of her will always love Phoenix, but that doesn't mean their time hasn't passed.

It’s true, Kaminogi and Mia don’t have a lot of time together on screen. But, I think what is there is incredibly important, and really sets them apart as a couple. It is a shame that we never got to see them in “full bloom” as it was. But we got to see what led up to them as a couple, and the aftermath. It was more than enough for me.

After all, we don't see a lot of Mareka and Yuusaku interaction. Only at the very end. But we come to understand how much they really love one another through their actions, not interactions. I see Kaminogi and Mia much the same way.

One thing that is important to remember is that Kaminogi is a JERK. He’s sexist. He’s patronizing. It’s painfully obvious that he shows up in 3-4 trolling for ass—after all, when he thinks the case is lost, what does he do? Invite Mia out for coffee.

Of course Mia has no reaction to him calling her “kitten”. A “kitten” to Kaminogi isn’t an individual person with their own hopes and fears and goals. “Kittens” are interchangeable. If it’s not Mia, then it’s that other cute girl with the great legs that works in the office next to hers.

But then…Mia makes him call her by name. Oh, not literally. But at the end of 3-4, I got tears in my eyes when he finally said it. Because, as 3-4 goes on, even Kaminogi the sexist jerk, the guy that originally showed up to get under her skirt, is forced to respect her. To respect her passion for the job. To respect the fact that she could have given up, but she fought it through to the bitter end.

She made him fall in love with her, as a person. She wasn’t a “kitten” to him any more, she was Mia.

And Mia did care about him. Raelle was the one that pointed this out to me. It’s a minor detail that tends to get lost, but if you actually sit and think about it, it’s stunning. In 3-1, there is a point in time where Mia is told that she could get her badge revoked if she pursues this line of questioning. And she keeps going for him. She is risking her future. She is risking ever putting away the man that destroyed her mother’s life. And she does it for the man currently lying in a coma in the hospital. Because she loves him, because putting away the woman who destroyed him is more important than anything else to her at this moment.

One of the things I love best is that Mia does have an effect on Godot. When he first sees her in Maya’s body, he’s stunned. Hell, he ends up losing because of it. At that point in time, he had the trial in the bag, but since he got thrown off and gave Phoenix a chance to turn it around, he ended up losing.

And then, there’s the last case. Croik is right when she says Godot’s motivation was selfish. It was. But I don’t think you can deny the fact that he loved Mia desperately, and that losing her was one of the things that pushed him forward on his path. When he talks about how much she cared about her clients and her job…even though the WAY he’s saying it might come across as flippant, you can just tell how much he really and truly admired her.

He loved her.

And, then Mia at the end. She does say that it was the only way to save him. But what really touched me was when she thanked Phoenix for doing what she couldn’t. She did want to save him. She saw that there was still some of the man she had loved so much inside of him, and thanks Phoenix for saving that part of him.

Phoenix allowed Godot to “cry”. He ended it when she couldn’t.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I think that simple “thank you” says volumes.

If I remember correctly, Kaminogi didn't call Mia by her name until the very end of that case...? I can't recall the moment exactly, but that case ended with their defendant dead over the podium and Mia in tears for having cost a man his life. If he had called her anything other than her name at that point, he would have been scum of the earth.

They were both partially responsible for a man having died (at least, in their own minds). They felt guilty. Kaminogi more so, probably, since he was supposed to be looking out for Mia, and he wasn't able to. I didn't read anything romantic into it because...all he did was act like a decent guy when there was a dead body staring back at them. It didn't seem to me as having anything to do with Mia as a person at all.

It's possible that in the aftermath they comforted each other over their failure. But we don't get to SEE that part.

And sure, we are told plenty in GS3 to believe they loved each other. Mia pursues Chinami for his sake. Godot pursues Phoenix for her. But when they are face to face, when they actually have the oppertunity to speak after being apart for so long, neither rises to the oppertunity. I understand that Godot didn't want to talk to her because he was too ashamed, maybe. But if Mia loved him soooooo much how could she not say anything? She didn't make any effort to speak to him. She didn't pass on any messages, or even act glad to see him conscious and moving. It's one of the catches with the game's setup, that we don't get to see much outside of court or anything unrelated to the case, but we can't "assume" canon is there when it's not. As far as we know, Mia learned that her former lover was still alive and made no effort whatsoever to contact or reassure him.

Which maybe adds an aspect to Mia's character, but I think it takes away from the two of them. She was willing to risk her law career (which consisted of one loss, so far...) to avenge him, but when he's half a room away she can't try to talk to him?

And as I see it, Godot was even worse. He loved Mia so much that he didn't care to know who Phoenix really was and what he meant to her? So much that he was willing to risk her sister's life, all to make himself feel better? Forget not trying to speak with her, he deliberately put every remaining member of her family in mortal danger, just to prove something to himself. If he honestly cared about her, wouldn't he have warned HER among the others? It's not as if he didn't know how.

There were a hundred ways to save Maya, dear sister to the woman he supposedly loved; he picked the one that could have made HIM a hero. I honestly can't see how that can be considered love.

It's a canon pairing, of course. And I can maybe see it as a combination of disfunctional people in a strange sort of half ego-driven relationship. And yes, Funk, I'm sure they had hot sex (wink). But I still can't see it as romance.

I think it had everything to do with Mia as a person. Up until that point he had been alternately patronizing and supportive, but still distant. While I'm not trying to suggest the death of a man is a particularly romantic circumstance, THAT is the moment they connected as people. As the case went on, he slowly grew to respect her more, if only for her drive to save Onamida. Still, he was calling her "kitten". But then, at the end, she was crying and he reached out to her as a person in a way he hadn't before.

It was an important step in their relationship.

I can't really see it as incredible guilt on the half of Kaminogi, to be honest. This is a guy, when faced with the idea of the trial ending and Onamida being carted off to be executed (eventually), invited her out for coffee. He didn't like the way it ended, it affected him too. But I don't think it was a sense of horrible personal guilt that made him reach out to her. It was HER suffering. SHE made him get involved in the case. He reached out to help her near the end, and then he reached out to comfort her in a very personal way.

Him saying her name is emphasized for a reason. If it was unimportant, they could have had him say it when the trial started getting thicker, but they deliberately saved it for the end for emphasis.

At no time, until the end is there any indication that Mia recognizes the white haired, visored prosecutor as the black haired defense attorney that she loved until 3-5. If you mean after he killed Maya's mom, then I'm not sure there was time. Remember, Mia has to be channeled. If no one knew that Godot was Kaminogi and he isn't seeking her out in a channeling session, then their times to meet are severely limited. I would assume that they didn't meet, but I attribute this to Godot not WANTING to see her, and Mia not knowing he's the same person, and by the time she does it's too late.

I'm still not sure why Godot deserves all the blame for this situation, as I said when it came up last time.

1) Godot is not the one putting Maya in danger. Morgan is. Godot chose a shitty way to save her, but he's not the one that put her into danger in the first place.
2) His plan was okay'd by MAYA'S OWN MOTHER. It's not like he made this plan and then went at it alone. Both Ayame and Misty were told and agreed to it. If it was so important that Mia be told, then I'm sure Misty could have taken care of it just as easily as he could, considering she's the one with the spiritual powers.
3) I'm still not sure what this has to do with the two of them. ^^;; As far as I see it, there wasn't really time for Mia to get in contact with him. Godot didn't want to contact her; he didn't WANT closure. Sure, he's selfish, but that doesn't negate the fact that losing her was one of the reasons he twisted into himself when he woke up.

I don't know, maybe it's just me. The emphasis in the last trial is Phoenix going at it alone. But the moment when Godot really accepts Phoenix as Mia's successor is when he sees Mia inside of him. It's still all about Mia for Godot. He reacts to her, she reacts to him. We see through their actions how much they mean to one another. Whether or not that's enough for you to buy them as a viable couple is, of course, your prerogative.

But, to me, I think the game laid out pretty solidly that Godot is twisted because he lost her and he was selfishly trying to make himself feel better and needed. I think it also laid out that Mia was willing to risk her entire livelihood for him while she was alive, but, in the end, was forced to let the living take care of the living. I'm not sure what she could have said to him. I'm not sure anything NEEDED to be said. She didn't blame him for what happened, I think she recognized he was a broken man doing the best he could and was thwarted by his worst attributes.

If anything, the fact that Maya was so damn protective of him, I think, really shows how much Mia must have cared for him. I don't thinks she would have lied in court to protect him if she hadn't come away with that very strongly in her head.

One person calling the other by their first name for the first time is one of the most overused "romantic" gestures in Japanese media. It's in most romances I've seen. I think the reason they had him calling her Kitten the whole time was just so he could call her Mia in the end, and have the audience recognize it as being important. It's a cliche. But in the context of 3-4 he didn't just start calling her that because they'd grown together, or because that's the point where they fell in love - a man is dead. She is in tears. Comforting someone over a man being dead isn't romantic, it's what a decent human being would do.

If Mia didn't recognize Godot, with the only difference being a different hair color and a mask, I would say again that doesn't speak much to their relationship, either. I've had fans yell at me for putting up Kaminogi's profile picture because it looks so much like Godot, it's too obvious and is a spoiler. I guess she wouldn't be the first one in PW to be unobservent, but...he's even in the same setting she would be used to seeing him in, that being court. I'll accept that if she didn't recognize him, she couldn't have thought to engage him. But to the audience he looks almost exactly the same.

Though personally I think they kept her from recognizing him because they didn't want to deal with her reaction at all. It's a little unfair to her that she's given an important role in 3-3 and then not allowed to see it to it's full potential.

As for Maya in danger, I do hold Elise just as responsible. She's an idiot and I don't like her any more than I do Godot. But that doesn't mean Godot isn't just as guilty for allowing Maya's life to be threatened. He got to the letter first. He had all the oppertunity in the world to prevent mortal danger. But instead of thinking "What would Mia want me to do?" he did what HE wanted. He put his wishes far ahead of hers or anyone elses.

And again, I feel responsible to point out that 3-4 was ABOUT them growing together. 3-4 brought them together, forced Kaminogi to see her as something besides a hot piece of ass, jump started their partnership, and made him care about the trial beyond his distant "well go for it be a man lololol" attitude. I mean, yes, you say he was acting like a decent human being when he comforted her by saying her name. This is true. The point is that, before, he was hardly being "decent" when the trial began. Mia brought out that side of him.

But, here's the thing. The audience is not the same as the characters. Also, no one recognizes Godot, when, really, they "should".

- Kaminogi was Grossberg's top attorney, he would have had some measure of fame. the fact that no one recognizes him tells us...he was supposed to be mysterious and unrecognizable to the cast while we, the players, are obviously supposed to put it together after 3-4.
- His hair and appearance and lawyerly position are different.
- Kaminogi was supposed to be in coma land. How on earth would Mia know he woke up? She thought he was, for all intents and purposes, dead. Even if there was a resemblence, it's far more likely that the man she loved was still in the hospital. She also wasn't around long enough in front of him to get a good idea of all of his mannerisms.
- Edgeworth also didn't recognize Godot. Then again, Edgeworth couldn't even recognize Chinami...

BUT! It also makes perfect sense that Godot would recognize Mia.

- As you've said in the past, Godot knows about the Feys, and their powers.
- He obviously recognizes Maya.
- When Maya's appearance dramatically shifts--which is something cast members HAVE remarked on--there is nothing surprising in him assuming that she's channeling Mia.

So, in other words, one half of the couple is working from full knowledge. The other is working from none. To me it makes sense why they weren't able to connect until the end, and by that time it was too late.

Here's my issue with this train of thought. To me, it only makes sense if you think Godot is acting this way FOR Mia. He's not. He's acting this way BECAUSE of Mia. That might seem like splitting hairs, but there is an enormous difference.

Phoenix reacts to Edgeworth when he finds out he hasn't died, or gone forever. He's genuinly worried over his well being, as a lover would be? I think so ^_^

I'm not trying to say that because Kaminogi said Mia's name, he fell in love with her at that exact moment. What I'm trying to say is that he said Mia's name because he finally saw her as Mia. A person who was in pain and hurting after seeing her client commit suicide on the stand, not "my cute kouhai (who I want to get in the sack)". It was a moment his feelings shifted, not into love, but as seeing her in a different way he didn't quite before.

And again, I feel responsible to point out that 3-4 was ABOUT them growing together. 3-4 brought them together, forced Kaminogi to see her as something besides a hot piece of ass, jump started their partnership, and made him care about the trial beyond his distant "well go for it be a man lololol" attitude. I mean, yes, you say he was acting like a decent human being when he comforted her by saying her name. This is true. The point is that, before, he was hardly being "decent" when the trial began. Mia brought out that side of him.

You're right. But that still isn't an indication of romance, which is the point I'm trying to make. The game asks us to believe that they're a couple, but we don't ever see them as a couple. There's no shared sexual or romantic anything between them. And I still don't believe that it was Mia as a person that caused Kaminogi to stop acting like an ass. I think if it was a man next to him that Kaminogi teased and cajoled in a non-sexual manner the entire time, he still would have shut up when his client died. He'd have to be heartless and a bad lawyer not to. So while I agree it started a bond between them in terms of them having gone through an experience together, it's not really any indication of them as a couple.

If it was Grossberg next to him and he called him "Fatty" the whole time, I think he would have shut up at the end, too.

But...none of those other people were sleeping with Godot. At least, so I assume (>.> @ Edgeworth...? lol). I hate to think that hair dye and a mask is enough to trick a pair of people who supposedly shared an intimate relationship. Maybe you could say that Mia being dead has something to do with it, in which case, I'd accept that. But she was in love with a lawyer who had a thing for pinstripe vests and always had a cup of coffee with him at the bench. I was surprised that Maya didn't recognize him as her sister's former lover, let alone Mia herself. But if the game wants us to assume she didn't recognize him, I guess she didn't.

As a cosplayer who's used to seeing friends in the strangest of attire, I don't think that's rather fair to Mia.

Here's my issue with this train of thought. To me, it only makes sense if you think Godot is acting this way FOR Mia. He's not. He's acting this way BECAUSE of Mia. That might seem like splitting hairs, but there is an enormous difference.

But doesn't that...prove my point that they couldn't have loved each other as much as the fans or even the game want you to think they did? I'm not arguing they weren't a couple, because canon says they were. I'm saying they couldn't have been a very good one XD.

Upon hearing that Mia was dead, Godot set out to defeat the man who had already avenged her. He made a mockery of her profession by becomming a prosecutor just to get in a fight. He let her entire family be put in mortal danger so that he could be a hero by rescuing them. None of these things are things that Mia would have wanted him to do. So either he doesn't understand her feelings one bit, or he knew she wouldn't have wanted that and just didn't care. It's really no indication of love at all.

I don't doubt that Godot *thought* he was in love with Mia. But I don't think he was. I think she was an excuse for him to act out his frustrations over...well, being a coffee-zombie. He used her. And that's why I don't like them as a couple at all.