Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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DragoonDarkfire wrote:
Teh Headbang wrote:
But I find the the fact people like edgeworth so much that they want "Miles Edgeworth: Ace Attorney" is stupid. He's not that great. We've had enough of him. Time to move on.
AH! So you're the kinda guy who doesn't like repetition at ALL.
In fact the moment Odoroki gets 3 games we should just abandon him and go onto some completely different franchise all together right?
Why have Edgeworth DEVELOP when we could just scrap him and introduce a completely new character right? No. Sorry but that's the stereotypical marketing strategy of simply replacing bad guys every time you defeat them. I agree that over-fandom (or fanboyism/fangirlism, what have you) is bad but simply sacking a character for no good reason is just as bad.
Let's look at the three prosecutors of GS's Phoenix Arc.
SPOILERS ALERT
was our first. He was cruel and seemed completely uncaring to anything but we slowly began to see that he was more of a pained individual that was given an obscured sense of justice from a cruel and uncaring man.
... really didn't provide anything more then being the "Big Baddie" of PW1.
Was like her father and Edgeworth in that she was willing to do anything to get a Guilty verdict but this didn't come from a black heart (like her dad) or from an obscured sense of justice like Edgeworth. Her willingness to do anything to get a guilty verdict was from being the daughter of a famous prosecutor, despite the fact she was a prodigy she still felt that she didn't live up to Edgeworth (who probably received more support from Manfred, causing her to try and prover herself superior to him) so she felt that if she could defeat Phoenix then she could prove herself finally.When Edgeworth confronts Fransezka we see that she, like Adrian Andrews, has some definite weaknesses underneath her and covers them up by acting strong.
is fueled by nothing more then hatred. He has lost the love of his life and he blames Phoenix for not protecting her since he needs to channel his anger somewhere and Redd White is probably dead or behind bars. Yet we see that he has difficulty coming over his initial hatred of Phoenix and he eventually comes to accept that his anger was misplaced. In this hour Godot becomes somewhat of a tragic hero, someone who's good yet winds up doing bad under the worst circumstances.It's with this we see that each and every prosecutor of PW is complex in their motives and overall morals (save for Manfred who's just an ass) and we can see them as characters rather then sprites on a DS screen.
Boo. I'm bored of seeing this same old response.
Edgeworth isn't worth three games.
If you come across an older post of mine, sowwy
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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tl;dr needs moar godot
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Holy Hell wrote:
Boo. I'm bored of seeing this same old response.
Edgeworth isn't worth three games.
Edgeworth isn't worth three games.
Boo. I'm sick of your face!
Oh snap!
Seriously, though. Edgeworth doesn't take up that much time, he has a clearly delineated path of character development, and he has some great one liners. I thought the games did a great job of using him when needed while still allowing him impact in the games after GS1. And after the first game, I don't know that there's enough of him to really get sick of.
In any case, I don't think it's particularly suprising he's popular, nor do I find it surprising people dislike him. He's far from a character whose traits will make them universally loved, but I don't think he's a stereotypical "friend/rival" either. Usually series tend to have one break out character. In GS, it just happens to be Edgeworth.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Yes, Edgeworth is slightly overrated (I'm more of a Phoenix girl myself), but that doesn't mean you have to hate him for that reason. Loads of anime series are overrated (such as Naruto) and yet people will still watch them and enjoy them. You don't have to avoid something that's popular ^^
In the title you say Edgeworth is boring. Would you mind explaining how so? His personality varies and he developes as a character, his past is slowly released to you too. What more can you ask for in a game character?
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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It's kind of a shame to see Edgeworth get bashed for developing as a character when he's one of the only ones in the series that really does so. Maya's in 10 of the 14 cases and accused of murder three times (plus one kidnapping!), and she barely even gets any new sprites over the course of three games. With so little actual cross-game development going on, I was glad for Edgeworth's change.
In fact, I don't like Maya BECAUSE she doesn't develop, but I don't feel the need to make a thread about it. It all has to do with personal preference and taste.
(By the way, Gumshoe makes an appearance in 11 cases
)
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Croik wrote:
Maya's in 10 of the 14 cases and accused of murder three times (plus one kidnapping!), and she barely even gets any new sprites over the course of three games. With so little actual cross-game development going on, I was glad for Edgeworth's change.
In fact, I don't like Maya BECAUSE she doesn't develop, but I don't feel the need to make a thread about it. It all has to do with personal preference and taste.
(By the way, Gumshoe makes an appearance in 11 cases )
In fact, I don't like Maya BECAUSE she doesn't develop, but I don't feel the need to make a thread about it. It all has to do with personal preference and taste.
(By the way, Gumshoe makes an appearance in 11 cases
)*can't help but agree with that one* but.. yeah.. that's a whole another topic and a matter of one's taste in characters, indeed. >.>
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Also, I think that some characters should *gasp* stay static. Funny characers like Maya, Larry, or Gumshoe aren't really the kind of characters I would like developed. Becasue I wouldn't want Maya to suddenly get more serious about what's around her, Larry to become smart in his choice of women, or gumshoe to suddenly get less clumsy or hard-headed.
But another thing...
Spoiler: GS3 spoilers
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Teh Headbang wrote:
I just don't think edgeworth needs as much development as he he does. There are other characters in the games, and edgey kind of takes away from their spotlight.(i.e.:frannziska) In GS2, the game hyped up edgeworth's return. It made you feel suspense. Franziska, the new prosecutor, was almost thrown aside in favor of edgeworth.
Simple, Franziska is a minor character meant to be used as a foil for both Edgeworth and Phoenix. I love Fran, and, yes, I do feel like she was a little gypped, but her development was tied to Edgeworth's. So much of her was tied to him that there's not a whole lot they could have done with her if he hadn't shown up.
Teh Headbang wrote:
Also, I think that some characters should *gasp* stay static. Funny characers like Maya, Larry, or Gumshoe aren't really the kind of characters I would like developed. Becasue I wouldn't want Maya to suddenly get more serious about what's around her, Larry to become smart in his choice of women, or gumshoe to suddenly get less clumsy or hard-headed.
I think Maya has an amazing amount of subtle development. It's mostly dropped in hints and spurts because that's the kind of character she is, but if you actually think about it there's clear sense of development for her as a character too. She starts out in GS1 doubting Phoenix. By the time we get to GS2 her faith in him is absolute. She goes through a crisis where she wants to be more helpful to him in GS1. In GS2, where we find out more about her family and how she was raised. And GS3 was a GREAT game for Maya development.
I think it's important to keep in mind that development doesn't mean dynamic characterization. It means we grow to know more and understand the character. Edgeworth is probably THE most dynamic character in the game, but in terms of actual development, Maya is right alongside him with how much we know about her.
I too don't think Maya needs to change. She wasn't a "demon sidekick", hurting others. There's nothing TO change about her. She has childish habits, but she's more mature emotionally than, well, practically the entire cast. Why should I care that she likes a children's TV show when she's proven that she has inner strength to rival everyone else's?
Teh Headbang wrote:
Spoiler: GS3 spoilers
Spoiler: GS3
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Quote:
In fact, I don't like Maya BECAUSE she doesn't develop, but I don't feel the need to make a thread about it. It all has to do with personal preference and taste.
Um..
Spoiler:
But yeah... Edgy is a little overated in the fandom. But his character quality is needed, imo. As the main rival to Phoenix, his persona as a seeemingly perfect man (But with many hidden flaws) fits a nice role for a rival image. And he's not Mr. Perfect as all the fangirls picture him to be. But, that's exxaguration on their part :P.
Besides. With two sides such as Edgeworth and Pheonix... It only makes their relationship in court and out, all the more interesting for the plot.
However, I DO think the SL9 incident abused his character. It made myself think that the game indirectly revolves around Edgeworth. And then with the release of Justice For All... I couldn't get that thought out of my mind throughout the half the game.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
Set made by Bolt_Storm. Shanks.
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Quote:
Can't he just find ONE personality? It's really stale. Believe it or not, I think Edgeworth is a average character. Nothing special.
He's your average person, changed (rather realistically, I always thought) by life-molding affairs.I don't rate Edgeworth any higher than any of the other characters. Granted, we all know that side of the community who love him more than their own parents, due to multiple factors: one being generally impressed by him, the other simply being aroused by - for strong lack of a better term - the 'wangst' that seems to surround him (for the record, he isn't really emo: just haunted). I don't value him higher than Phoenix, Gumshoe, Ema, etc.
Though - and this is something that we should all agree on - it's safe to say that the series needs someone like Edgeworth in it: for the sake of a legacy rather than anything else. Not to mention that someone like him was often the best way for the game to express its own atmosphere, such as the job of a lawyer being that of justice, not simply winning for a paycheck.
His popularity may largely come from mainstream reasons from my perspective: but his authority generates from those who see the character as he is and what be brings to the table, and like it.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Dr. Mancusio wrote:
Quote:
Can't he just find ONE personality? It's really stale. Believe it or not, I think Edgeworth is a average character. Nothing special.
He's your average person, changed (rather realistically, I always thought) by life-molding affairs.I don't rate Edgeworth any higher than any of the other characters. Granted, we all know that side of the community who love him more than their own parents, due to multiple factors: one being generally impressed by him, the other simply being aroused by - for strong lack of a better term - the 'wangst' that seems to surround him (for the record, he isn't really emo: just haunted). I don't value him higher than Phoenix, Gumshoe, Ema, etc.
Though - and this is something that we should all agree on - it's safe to say that the series needs someone like Edgeworth in it: for the sake of a legacy rather than anything else. Not to mention that someone like him was often the best way for the game to express its own atmosphere, such as the job of a lawyer being that of justice, not simply winning for a paycheck.
His popularity may largely come from mainstream reasons from my perspective: but his authority generates from those who see the character as he is and what be brings to the table, and like it.
I couldn't have put it any better. Edgeworth is constantly changing and developing, and he's trying to find himself. A series without development would be boring. As Dr. Mancusio said, the series may not need Edgeworth himself, but a character like him to keep everything balanced. Not only does he keep balance in the series, but he keeps the balance between the characters. For example, he and Nick balance each other out with not only their personalities, but their actions as well. Its true that some people may like Edgeworth more and put him on a pedestal, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone has their own perspective of things. Well, I wound up writing more than I planned to, but I hope I made my thoughts at least somewhat clear.
Last edited by Thorn on Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
stirring
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If he had a sword, that'd have been cooler. In fact, nobody except Cody had a sword, and he was lame. Why are the Phoenix Wright character so lame?
If you come across an older post of mine, sowwy
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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My art thread!
My sprite thread! Calando in progress
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And my devart site
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My sprite thread! Calando in progress
Phoenix Wright and co.:Ace Mythbusters! Myth 2 finished
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And my devart site
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Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
Just for you Baki. can you marry me now?
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And to address some points from before....
Spoiler: GS3 spoilers
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Cookie~Ace wrote:
Um..
Play GS3 final case again and play closer attention to the last case? That's really all I can say.
Play GS3 final case again and play closer attention to the last case? That's really all I can say.
I remember the end of GS3, thanks.
Spoiler:
I didn't want Maya to change her character, I just wanted her to be a little more affected by her surroundings.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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err... carry on, people.. just passing by..
Quote:
I'd have liked Edgeworth better if he had a sword.
If he had a sword, that'd have been cooler. In fact, nobody except Cody had a sword, and he was lame. Why are the Phoenix Wright character so lame?
If he had a sword, that'd have been cooler. In fact, nobody except Cody had a sword, and he was lame. Why are the Phoenix Wright character so lame?
Are you mad or something?
................... I don't understand what you're talking about. D8
don't mind me.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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)...And now back to Edgy! XD
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Teh Headbang wrote:
A. Revenge-bent evil person out to beat phoenix/other major character.
B. Ruthless, evil prosecutor out to get a guilty verdict no matter what.
C. Both.
B. Ruthless, evil prosecutor out to get a guilty verdict no matter what.
C. Both.
Yea. And it was their motives that made them different and unique (along with their personality quirks)
So then tell me, what would you have proffered in a prosecutor?
Quote:
Boo. I'm bored of seeing this same old response.
Edgeworth isn't worth three games.
Edgeworth isn't worth three games.
How about giving an actual response and try refuting my argument. If it's such a boring old response then why is it so wrong?
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Quote:
So then tell me, what would you have proffered in a prosecutor?
Spoiler: minor GS4 spoilers
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Teh Headbang wrote:
Spoiler: GS3 spoilers
Spoiler: GS3
Teh Headbang wrote:
Quote:
So then tell me, what would you have proffered in a prosecutor?
Spoiler: minor GS4 spoilers
So, uh, basically GS2-Edgeworth?
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Teh Headbang wrote:
Quote:
So then tell me, what would you have proffered in a prosecutor?
Spoiler: minor GS4 spoilers
Spoiler: GS3/GS2 Spoiler
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
Just for you Baki. can you marry me now?
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Spoiler: GS2 spoilers
Regardless, this is straying off topic. I'd like to say it again, since nobody before really provided any sort of counterpoint.
Quote:
I suppose a better name for this topic would be "Edgeworth's not worth 3 games." Sure, I liked him and such in GS1, I thought he was a good character. But in GS2... he didn't NEED to be there. I didn't want the running plot of the game to be about edgeworth AGAIN. He already learned this in GS1. Why is he learning it again? I would have much rather had Franziska to be the one helping you at the end, and her being the one to find that it's not just about a guilty verdict.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Teh Headbang wrote:
Quote:
I suppose a better name for this topic would be "Edgeworth's not worth 3 games." Sure, I liked him and such in GS1, I thought he was a good character. But in GS2... he didn't NEED to be there. I didn't want the running plot of the game to be about edgeworth AGAIN. He already learned this in GS1. Why is he learning it again? I would have much rather had Franziska to be the one helping you at the end, and her being the one to find that it's not just about a guilty verdict.
It wasn't about Edgeworth learning anything. It was about him teaching what he learned during his year of soul-searching to his best friend and his "older" sister. Franziska wasn't emotionally equipped to help you learn anything; that's why the writers deliberately paralleled her and Phoenix. They were both similar in that respect in that game. Also, it has more of an impact if the person Phoenix is going against is connected to him in some way, even indirectly.
Did you want Fran to come out of nowhere and hate Phoenix for no reason? Since so much of her drive for vengence is tied up in Edgeworth, it would have been sloppy not to address it. Franziska, also by virtue of having no direct connection to Phoenix, has no reason to want to help him find the truth. Phoenix is her focus in the game, but he's a means to MILES EDGEWORTH. She never warms up to him as a person, and I find that refreshing.
Also, please explain how GS3's running plot was about Edgeworth. Simply showing up doesn't mean the game is about him.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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GS2, not 3.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Teh Headbang wrote:
But in GS2, he didn't NEED to be there. I didn't want the running plot of the game to be about edgeworth AGAIN.
GS2, not 3.
GS2, not 3.
You said three games, thus implying that all three games are about him.
Also, if anything, I'd say GS2's overarching plot was about Phoenix's struggle as a lawyer. Edgeworth had a huge part to play in that, but that's only natural, since the first game tied him so strongly to Phoenix's drive to become one in the first place. As far as actual cases go, Edgeworth was only brought up once in the middle two, not at all in the first, and then the last addressed what happened to him. But more importantly, he was the narrative device that allowed Phoenix to see the error in his ways. Yes, that narrative device could have been many different people, but Edgeworth was uniquely suited to do so, and it's a strength of the writers that they recognized that they should use what they had instead of fashioning someone else whole cloth. More impact that way.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Teh Headbang wrote:
Spoiler: GS2 spoilers
Spoiler: GS2
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Take case 1-5 out of the storyline and it becomes believable. Edgeworth is the bad guy in 1-2, in 1-3 he helps out when it's obvious who the real killer is, and becomes the defendant in 1-4. Afterwards, he dissapears, and then comes back after a year as a new person.
Since case 1-5 was added to showcase the new features of the DS version of the game, they didn't really have any other prosecutors they could go to for that story (Except for Payne) and I think they did the best job they could with that as far as his own character development went. All attorneys will do what they can to win a case but Edgeworth wanted to know the truth behind the false evidence used in the SL-9 case, a time in his career where he wouldn't have given a damn wether he knew or not.
I think one of the reasons Edgeworth stands out so much is because he is one of the ONLY characters to develop.
Phoenix doesn't really have any substantial development at all until 2-4. In GS3 the case with Edgeworth really doesn't focus on him, but more on Phoenix and sets up Chinami as she is a major factor in that game.
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Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
Lolwut?
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I think I'll go make up some Meekins fandom, the poor guy is so neglected and underrated anyways *finds MikeMeekinsfan* WE NEED MORE FANDOM! Let' go recruit people while we're at it! *shot by bystander*Oh wait Edgeworth...uh... well, put it this way:
Spoiler: GS4ish...whatever.
Too lazy... hur hur.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Aetheryn wrote:
Spoiler: GS4ish...whatever.
Pgjjgskhahtwhehgggghhh
I haven't seen that one before XD;;;. God I almost fell out of my chair. I think I'd better go back into the fat thread and swee what else I've missed.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
i object to yo face
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Aetheryn wrote:
I'm so confuzzled. I think I'll go make up some Meekins fandom, the poor guy is so neglected and underrated anyways *finds MikeMeekinsfan* WE NEED MORE FANDOM! Let' go recruit people while we're at it! *shot by bystander*
Oh wait Edgeworth...uh... well, put it this way:
I think I'll go make up some Meekins fandom, the poor guy is so neglected and underrated anyways *finds MikeMeekinsfan* WE NEED MORE FANDOM! Let' go recruit people while we're at it! *shot by bystander*Oh wait Edgeworth...uh... well, put it this way:
Spoiler: GS4ish...whatever.
I wanna put a butt chin, might suit him.
made by my friend ^.^
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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For the rest, he was but a cameo.
He really didn't do that terribly much.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
;~;!
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Well, duh, Edgeworth was more of an antagonist, per say, in other cases.. I mean he's not going to pull a Payne and allow you to win the case just like that.,
I mean, he is a prosecutor for a reason, no?
Think about it, prosecutors believe in witnesses and evidence, right?
So why would he give you the case on a platter?
I don't see your logic...
Nevertheless, I like Edgey, but Odoroki does need more development >>;;
Edgeworth has shown his development.. .-.
He has developed a lot since GS3-4, but whatever...
Even when the body dies, the spirit, the ego, it lives on... forever.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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Spoiler: Case 2-4
But if he doesn't then whatever. He's cool either way.
In GS5 they should go into Odoroki's past and maybe even Kyouya's past; and then combine the two pasts somehow for Case 5-4 while showing character development at the same time. I can't shake this feeling that after three games people will get sick of Odoroki's character development and will want some new character who will show character development. Rinse, lather, and repeat.
So, there's no real point in complaining or griping. You just gotta go with the flow and accept things as they are.
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
Is Incognito.
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And his Objection rocks.
What good is tommorrow if there is no today?
Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
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There are too many fangirls that exaggerate his "awesome, deep, HOT greatness, I'll give you that. But he isn't a evil, domineering, selfish...
okay...let me rephrase that. He isn't THAT much of a evil, domineering, selfish prosecuter.
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Re: Edgeworth is boring, and overated.
OBJECTION!
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Spoiler:
Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....
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