Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:17 pm

Brandon Strong

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Just something Ive noticed—why do the prosecutors always seem to choose the wrong culprit? Throughout the series, they never seem to learn that if they gave themselves more then a day to find the culprit, they might actually win a case or two. Look at Fransiska! She came to America solely devoted to defeating Phoenix, but she does a halfassed job investigating and even when she knows who the killer is

Spoiler:

she still accuses someone else. Why, I ask you! WHY? :ack:

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:25 pm

Mr. Bear Jew

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There's no big mystery there.

It's because they don't want to find the real criminal. They want to incriminate the defendant because they don't want to defense to win. It looks bad on their records if they lose to a defense attorney. If they incriminated the real criminal then the defendant (assuming that all of Phoenix's defendants are innocent) would be found no guilty. Essentially, they would be handing the defense a free ticket to winning.

Do you think prosecutors want to lose a case?

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:35 pm

Deefunx

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Police arrest suspect.
Defense defends, Prosecution attemts to... prosecute...

Its how it is in real life. They are given (to an extent) who they must defend/prosecute. Real murderers are found out by their lies and stuff.

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Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:37 pm

SilverZephyr

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The defendants aren't accused by the prosecutors, they're accused by the police.
And most of the prosecutors in PW have their own agenda, so they won't help the accused be proven not guilty unless their name is Kyouya or Edgeworth.

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:38 pm

Connor?!

?!

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Because it isn't the prosecutor's job to find the criminal, their job is to put the accused behind bars. It's up to the police to find out who the murderer is, and after finding enough evidence to support their theory they hand the case off to the prosector.

Holy Hell wrote:

Raven Darkheart wrote:

it is when you look underneath the underneath

It's not a hole in the wall. It is a wall surrounding a hole.

Last edited by Connor?! on Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:44 pm

Thorn

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Not only that, but in most of the AA cases, the evidence first found usually points to someone else. Not to mention that a lot of the time someone is framed.

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:36 pm

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Just as everyone has said, the prosecution must attempt to prove the defendant guilty, but it is not they who chose the defendant.

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Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:21 am

BassForever

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I know police choose defendant, but in the PW world it makes it seem like the prosecutor is incharge of the crime scene (in PW2 Fran. is at the crime scene and even orders a search in 2-3).

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:39 am

Raven Darkheart

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true they are "in charge of the investigation" but all they are dpong is leaning on the police to get them the ammo they need in court to convict the accused

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Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:45 am

Aetheryn

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Didn't Nick say something in the range of "Prosecutors don't care about whether a person is innocent or not, just about their records." Kinda harsh, Nick.

Besides, Look at how wack in the head the Von Karma are/were (not meant offensively just in general)

Besides, if they want to get ahead in their careers, their records would probably come into account.

Too lazy... hur hur.

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:52 am

Brandon Strong

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True, thats how it is in real life. But in real life you are not given a day to make youre case on either side, there is no Initial Trial System, and the defendant gets to choose whether or not they get a jury. In PW world, everything is different. The prime example, Franny, takes the reins of each case into her own personal control. With Manfred, I can understand why he wouldn't mind if someone else was charged, but you'd think the prosecutors would have some say in who they are prosecuting.
And for gods sakes, I love the man as a character to pieces, but realistically how is it that LA only seems to have one homicide cop, one who has apparently accused almost every suspect wrongly?! Sure, for one or two cases his salery would get dropped but when he has accused almost ten people consecutivly on usually shaky evidence *coughcough* photograph of powers *cough*? I still don't understand! I mean sure he gets canned several times, but they always see to take him back.
Although I must admit I would be hella pissed it if he left the series...i guess for one case a change might be nice.

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:48 am

Mr. Bear Jew

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*Insert obligatory "IT'S A VIDEO GAME" post here*

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Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:07 am

Aetheryn

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Macbeth wrote:

*Insert obligatory "IT'S A VIDEO GAME" post here*

If it weren't for the various quirks of the Phoenix Wright world, Phoenix Wright would be quite boring and mundane.

If the PW law system were like ours, we'd all still be on the first case probably.

Too lazy... hur hur.

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:20 am

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Brandon Strong wrote:

True, thats how it is in real life. But in real life you are not given a day to make youre case on either side, there is no Initial Trial System, and the defendant gets to choose whether or not they get a jury. In PW world, everything is different. The prime example, Franny, takes the reins of each case into her own personal control. With Manfred, I can understand why he wouldn't mind if someone else was charged, but you'd think the prosecutors would have some say in who they are prosecuting.
And for gods sakes, I love the man as a character to pieces, but realistically how is it that LA only seems to have one homicide cop, one who has apparently accused almost every suspect wrongly?! Sure, for one or two cases his salery would get dropped but when he has accused almost ten people consecutivly on usually shaky evidence *coughcough* photograph of powers *cough*? I still don't understand! I mean sure he gets canned several times, but they always see to take him back.
Although I must admit I would be hella pissed it if he left the series...i guess for one case a change might be nice.

~~It doesn't snow in LA either... but there's snow in GS2-3.~~ Indeed, this is Phoenix Wright. It takes place in the future, a future which will hopefully never happen (the nation will be in an uproar if someone seriously suggested no jury and only one day of investigation.

As for Gumshoe, I'm sure he's caught many an evildoer, it's just that he's hopeless with murder cases. :3 But he's so lovable!!

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Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:30 am

Croik

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Keep in mind also that the cases in PW take place months apart. True, the police shouldn't be accusing ANY innocent people, but it's not like they're throwing tons of them away for crimes they didn't commit (roughly four a year are wrongly accused I suppose...?) That's why Phoenix takes so few cases--the police occasionally do their job correctly. :P

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:47 am

Solomon

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Not to go off topic here or anything, but wasn't it Edgeworth who tipped the police off to do the surprise check of Acro's room?

And in the game, they needed the "bad guy" figure. You know, the malevolent who will spite the main hero, at any cost.

They, in GS/AA, picked the wrong venue for a "bad guy" characters. The law world is all about facts and evidence. They (the prosecutors) shouldn't care about losing to a defense attorney, but rather, seeing that the guilty party is reprehended (hope I'm spelling that Wright...). They kept it along the lines that they believe that the defendant is guilty, but they take it so far as to believe there is no other way that this could have happened.

Although different in that respect, they are still just doing their job, which is to get the defendant a guilty verdict. That's what you're paid to do. Finding a way out is the defense attorney's job. That's just how it works. It's not a matter of being stupid, rather a matter of doing your job well or not.

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:02 pm

Usagilover

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you're totally right! They're all doing their jobs! even though the fact that Phoenix is an attorney leads to a " prosecutors are the baddies" vision of the thing, this is how law works!...well, with some light differences^^""But the main goal of everynthing in court is justice, in priority...! I don,t mind the're are doing the're jobs but if THEY KNOW the defendant is not guilty, trying to prove he/she is, is really a lack of professionalship...at least in my way to see things because, well..it is not fair XD *strong arguments here!* But I don't like to lose either...ahh I'm in a GS2 dilemma!! XD

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Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:07 pm

Liquidzilla

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I think it's also because you play the defense and so you should win each case to pass each level.

Spoiler:

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:57 am

Brandon Strong

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(

Gah! I'm startin to feel like a total PW hater! Its not like that, really everyone!)
Anyway, I'm startin to think that this topic should be more of a "police investigations under scrutiny" kinda thing, cause I guess that I do agree with what your sayin about prosecutors doin their job and all.
HOWEVER: I'm findin it harder and harder to believe that the LA police system would be this sloppy. :yogi:

How is it that they can never work out, with their supposedly massive amounts of police peoples, that almost every case that phoenix handles is tied to some dark and myserious incident at some time in the past. They always only do a cursory investigation, which only yields cursory results which they then push onto edgey & co. for a narrowminded judgement on the suspect. And again, why on EARTH is it that LA only has ONE freakin cop in homicides?! Its LA for Frannys sake!

(And if anyone thinks I'm judgeing this to harshly for a videogame, feel free to tell me. Cause I sure feel like a bad guy right now. :sadshoe:

)

Re: Prosecutions intelligence under scrutiny

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:54 am

Connor?!

?!

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Is there something wrong with Gumshoe? :(

Holy Hell wrote:

Raven Darkheart wrote:

it is when you look underneath the underneath

It's not a hole in the wall. It is a wall surrounding a hole.