Court Records

Rate/Review the entire franchise!
Page 4 of 7

Author:  DeiStar [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Trials and Tribulations
The peak of the franchise. Wrapped up the trilogy in a fantastic way, in my opinion. And if the series had ended in that game, I wouldn't have complained. The dynamic with the various defense attorneys and prosecutors didn't feel off, and it was a fantastic ride that will never be emulated again.

Investigations 2
A fantastic game that did the overarching plot the best, in my opinion. It kept me on the edge of my seat and I loved just about every case in that game. It also had the best villain in the series. It's the only game after T&T that I would call "Fantastic"

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Was really good even when being the first game. Mostly carried by 1-4 and 1-5, which are really fantastic cases themselves.

Apollo Justice
It was nice to see a new setting and a new cast (mostly) of characters. It really made me think this was the beginning of a new Ace Attorney era. I enjoyed the story for what it was. It didn't try to be all grandiose and epic like later entries. Too bad the team decided to drop everything with later games.

Justice for All
Not as good as the other trilogy games, in my opinion. Game was good, just not quite up there with the others. 2-4 still remains one of my favorite cases, though, and I quite enjoyed 2-2 as well. OST also isn't as bad as many people make it seem.

Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright
Well, being a fan of both series, I enjoyed this game for what it was. Though I can see this game suffered from development hell, because it certainly wasn't as great as it deserved to be. They had a very interesting story and premise going on, but it felt like they stopped trying about halfway there. Still, it was more like 75% Layton and 25% AA, but it was a decent 25%. I enjoyed all the trial segments, with the Golden Court being a favorite. Amazing OST, too.

Spirit of Justice
Now this game is where I see the franchise has just stopped evolving. While 6-2 was a pretty great case, most of the game was mediocre in my opinion. Khurain wasn't an interesting setting; it felt too much like Layton vs Wright part 2. The last case was awfully convoluted, and it recycled a bunch of stuff from older games that just made me sigh. Overall it just left a bitter taste in my mouth. I didn't even find the story entertaining or engaging, and it didn't help that the DLC was just a pandering atrocity.

Dual Destinies
The game that shouldn't have brought Phoenix back. All around a mediocre experience with a fantastic DLC case that unfortunately doesn't salvage the whole main story. Absolute worst villain in the franchise and a weak OST. They just tried too hard to have an epic story, but it was just so painfully badly executed.

Investigations 1
The low point of the franchise. I can't fathom how AAI2 was even a thing after this atrocity. I played this game expecting the story to get interesting at some point and it just didn't happen. I don't even know who would even care about the story in this game. The cases weren't anything special, or just outright awful like I-3. The finale was overly drawn out, just to conclude the yawnfest story that I didn't even care to begin with. Just a bad AA game.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Hmmm,no offense,DeiStar,but are you one of those people who are tired of the franchise? Because if you are,DGS is getting translated soon enough by the fans! So I'd hold your breath a tad longer. Your rankings are similar to mine,except slightly more negative.

Alright,it's time for 22! Sort of....either way,I'm so excited that we're already nearing the top twenty! So let's go go go!


Spoiler: all the gaems
#22(?)-The Final Witch Trial and the Last Inquisitor


Yeah...when I said I screwed up,it's that I forgot that the Final Witch Trial was divided into not 2,but three parts. So I'll be tackling the first two thirds of the trial today,seeing that I share pretty much the same opinion about them. So let's start this party off!

Something I like about each third of the trial is while they deal with a core issue (whether Espella is Bezella),they all have their own thing going on (the first third deals with the Storyteller's 'murder',the second third deals with the mystery of the 'shades,and....we'll save the last one for later). It's quite a nice touch,but never really felt as disjointed to me as Ablaze's story.

This is also the only crossover case to have investigations before and in between the trials (which actually pertain to the case at hand).The look over the bell tower we had were a nice touch,and really made the stakes feel higher,as it was happening mid trial in a way. Other than that,it's intriguing.I like how the player knows that the victim isn't even dead. And the explanation of the 'murder' is interesting. Darklaw's involvement was really cliched however. Oh look,a new prosecutor who's the final boss who also turns out to be the culprit. Never seen that before.

The mystery is quite good during the first third,with the footprints and the confusion over the vigilantes,but I found the second part quite boring in terms of that. In fact,I'd say that the second third of the case is the low point during the game's trials;so much so that I couldn't even remember what happened during it and had to read a summary to gain an idea. But the first third is rather fun and interesting,so it makes up for that. The return of Kira and all was a huge surprise to me,and was rather eerie.


The gameplay is fun in the second half,and I didn't actually even mind the whole 10 witnesses thing. It was just a good way to show off the interruption feature;especially since not all of the witnesses were actually useful. A pity something this huge didn't happen in DGS,though. but once again,the second third was a bore,and I seriously didn't care.

The presentation is still seriously stupendously stellar. The part where all the vigilantes objected and their breakdowns had me laugh my butt off. The music is fine here,no doubts about that. But in the second third,they clearly got tired of constantly reusing Allegro and had to switch it up with some random BGM. As a result,the cross examinations aren't as intriguing....and actually,I think that's why I don't remember that part that well,just like with 2-2's trials.

The characters are great. Well,at least 10 of them. Yes,the vigilantes. They're some of my favourite characters in the game,especially Wordsmith,Lanlancelcellotlot Lottalance,everyone around Foxy,Shakey,and Lyewood. So most of them. Dzibilchaltunchunchucmil was kinda annoying (to pronounce) though,and I didn't appreciate Boistrum's attitude. Foxy also makes me uncomfortable. But as a group they were a charmingly queer example of the great one off characters that this game has to offer,only beaten by maybe Emeer,Kira and Wordsmith. whoops he's a vigilante

The others were alright,I guess. Darklaw strikes me as really cliched as mentioned earlier,but she's formidable,I guess. Maya the Ironclad was adorable (even if her outfit was removed in the cutscene where Layton enters),and Phoenix was really fun to play as in the first third without any Layton guiding him......then the second third came,and he's telling him exactly what to do.

Yeah,Layton is really boring here,even as 'an enemy'. It's also not fun that he knows what happened but won't say for whatever reason. Espella is still bland,and Eve is still cute. Kira still is very eerie,like I said.But where are two other characters?! Barnham was thrown into a characterless prison cell and stuck until the ending,and Patty doesn't even come to support her darling Espella!


But I digress. This 'case' is kinda interesting. If I had to rank the first third alone,I would put it much higher.But sadly,it's saddled with a mediocre second third,so I can't rank it higher than this. So I give it a 7.25/10. See you next time!

Next time,a case which takes place before 3-4 and has Badd in it.

[previous ranking][hint box][next ranking]

...Wait a minute! Don't leave yet! I've got a small question to ask y'all. So far,I've been going story-mystery-gameplay-presentation/music-characters-overall score. But do you think that I should do it differently? Just a question for the next few rankings.

Also just so you know, if I ever forget anything,you can remind me and I'll add it to the writeup. Got it? :jake:

Author:  DeiStar [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Southern Corn wrote:
Hmmm,no offense,DeiStar,but are you one of those people who are tired of the franchise? Because if you are,DGS is getting translated soon enough by the fans! So I'd hold your breath a tad longer. Your rankings are similar to mine,except slightly more negative.

Don't worry. I am indeed sort of jaded with the franchise already, so I radiate a lot of negativity with my posts and rankings.
And about DGS... well, I guess I still have that to look forward.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

IMO the reason I've never felt this sort of negativity towards the franchise is because I take breaks after playing one game,and then all the new games feel rather fresh to me in what they're doing.

And while DGS isn't perfect (in fact,I'd say it's one of the weaker games in the series),it's still very neat and fresh in the same way the Layton crossover was. Can't wait for the sequel,which I already know will be even better than the original!

Gosh,am I actually starting to tear up over this? I'm such a weenie.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Also @Thunder84,my guess is that next time is 5-S,L-3 or 6-4. Most likely the latter is there. The other two are rather good cases though,and I don't think there's any other cases left like those you described.

Author:  Thunder84 [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!


Yeah, basically the reason I'm not commenting on anything either is because, well, my comments would just be reduced versions of my actually write-ups. I'm guessing the same is being said for you.

And also, yeah it's two if those 3 you listed. As for your next one, it's either I-4 or I2-3, my guess being the former.

Author:  Thunder84 [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

It was a nice run, but unfortunately a sickness forced me into bed for the rest of the day and I couldn't get to the ranking. I'll knock off two right now, and hopefully another 2 later today if I can.

Spoiler: Layton vs Wright, Spirit of Justice
22. The Golden Court


And thus, the last remaining case from Layton v Wright falls. It's a shame that there's no way to replay trials in the game without playing through the entire damn game again. Especially since the best of them all takes the longest to get to. The Golden Court is a fantastic case, and is really only brought down by the fact that you know that the victim didn't die at all.

The mystery is easily the best of the bunch, as it really leaves you in the dark. You see a small portion of who did it to Layton (the witch-person) but Maya gets accused instead. I don't mind Maya being the defendant here at all, as it makes sense and doesn't feel like a rehash at all. Layton is the victim, and he got turned into...a gold statue. Not the best way to go out. There's another 4 witnesses to cross-examine here too, one of them being Emeer (YES!) and the other being Luke, who's going through a similar arc to Apollo in DD. It works really well, and seeing Luke rejoin you at the bench was a great moment. You cross-examine another parrot because the developers wanted as much fanservice as possible, and pretty soon you accuse Greyerl, the male butler. But, Phoenix can't ever be wrong, and Greyerl is actually a female. Another cross-examination with Greyerl and the postman Lettie, and then the trial shifts to the murder of Newton Belduke, Greyerl's master. Emeer comes back AGAIN, which is always great. Eventually, you prove Greyerl was the one to kill Belduke, but because Emeer is Emeer, he somehow fucks everything up for the better-ish. It's then proven that Belduke committed suicide, and was never murdered. It's a really sad moment, and seeing Greyerl read the stolen letter was truly moving. But because the people of Labyrinthia are bitches, Greyerl is to be put to death nonetheless, despite the fact that she committed neither murder. Then Espella comes in and claims that she's Bezella, and then SHE gets sentenced to death instead of Greyerl. THEN, Maya jumps up and saves Espella, but she's unable to escape and Maya gets dropped into the flames. It's a hectic ending that I absolutely love, although it's at that point that I knew that the fire-pit was fake.

The characters are, unlike most of the cases in this game, stellar. The first group of witnesses are all fantastic, as Birdly, Primstone, Emeer, and Luke all contrast each other perfectly. Lettie is the weakest of the group, but she doesn't have too big of a role. Greyerl is the real star here, as seeing her change into a better person throughout the trial was one of the best moments of character development in the series. Belduke, while not knowing much about him, is a great character, and his death's effect on the entire city is much bigger than it seems. Seeing Greyerl read his suicide note at the end was truly sad, and it's my favorite part of the game.

So, the Layton vs Wright cases come to a close. They're all fine cases, no doubt. But the game formats of Layton and Wright don't mesh perfectly, and the severe Layton bias led to the Ace Attorney side being nowhere near as good. It's a shame, and the fact that none of it's trials made it into the top half attest to that. But the Golden Court came damn close, as it's just one spot away from being in the middle.

21. Turnabout Storyteller.


Meanwhile, Turnabout Storyteller just sneaks into the top half. With all of it's emphasis on psychology, it's a fitting case for Athena and Blackquill, and it's really only brought down by the fact that it just feels out of place in the game. It would've worked much better as DLC, but it's still a fantastic case.

The murder actually isn't complex at all, and because of the focus on psychology, it's not addressed too much in the case. The basic plot is that Taifu Toneido, the head of a Rakugo troupe (Again, Yamazaki gives no shits about the localization) is strangled by noodles in his dressing room, and Bucky Whet, the head of a Soba shop who's completely wasted during the trial, is accused. Simon takes the stand first, but he soon joins Athena at the bench, which is of course awesome. Geiru makes a quick appearance, but she soon leaves and Uendo takes the stand. It starts out as a normal cross-examination, and Uendo is eventually accused of rearranging the cards form OWEN 4th to WHET NO4 to accuse Bucky. It's unknown why, but pretty soon Uendo gets put up to the mood matrix and all hell breaks loose. Uendo actually has Dissociative Identity Disorder, and that he has a 4th personality of a child, and that was the reason why he rearranged the crime scene. After causing Uendo to get blackout drunk (There's lots of alcohol in this case), the 4th personality shows itself, and because he's a child, he's cleared of the charges. With no other clear suspects, Geiru is accused, and the the final showdown begins. It's fairly anticlimactic, as the final testimony is a press everything testimony. But once it's proven that the murder actually was done with Udon dough, and that Geiru had bled onto the dough, it was enough to crack her and put her away for good.

The characters are all quite solid, with one absolutely fantastic one and one mediocre one. The fantastic one is of course Uendo and his other personalities Patches, Kisegawa, and Owen. Their differences between each other are great, and seeing a character with DID was a blast, especially during the cross-examinations. Geiru is the weak link, mostly due to her being nothing more than an April May clone. There was a lot more they could've done with her, and it's a shame to see her as such a shallow character. Simon and Athena's bickering is another highlight of the case, and when Simon started shaking Athena around and out of her depression, it was cool to see the relationship they had between each other. Nahyuta's new obsession with Rakugo was funny as well.

Well, that's all there is to say about Storyteller. Now, it's time to finally hit the top 20 cases in the series. Next up, a pair of cases that have pretty much nothing in common at all. But one of them IS a final case.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

I'm guessing one is Turnabout Ablaze?

Sorry everyone for not posting yesterday. I went to see some family members and when I came back,I was too tired for another write up. And to make it worse,the storms have delayed posting this for so long. But finally,the last case not in my top twenty! I'm so excited....yet kinda disappointed. You'll see. Number 21, it's your day of reckoning!


Spoiler: all the gaems
#21-Turnabout Reminiscence


And sadly,the last AAI case falls. And it's not even the final case this time. The fourth case,ladies and gentlemen,has finally fallen. And yes,this does mean that all AJ cases are above all AAI cases. I hope to justify this to you soon. But onwards we go!

This one starts off interesting,taking place before 3-4 and apparently was supposed to be Edgeworth's first case. But of course,to preserve canon,the trial is cancelled due to the fact that the defendant and prosecutor are dead. In fact,it seems to be an interesting case of double murder at first (which I'm surprised hasn't been reused ever again after this).

But of course,things escalate rather quickly. The story is quite interesting,and is the climax of the mystery for me. The Yatagarasu is finally properly explained and it's quite the mystery. The identity of the thief remains mysterious until the end,and even then is only resolved in the final case. It's quite the thriller in a sense,though the KG-8 incident is rather underwhelming. It's spectacular and fun to try and solve,even if it is impersonal at best.


The mystery is also great,like I said. Very cool,and it's due to the setting of the courthouse,which is not only great fan service,but the soundproof rooms and whatnot give lots of intrigue. Yew and Badd are mysterious at first,and the relation between Kay and Gummy is very cute.

The characters put the fun in fanservice. Manfred is interesting to see after Turnabout Goodbyes,but young Franziska is adorable,and actually makes for a fun partner. Yew is a fun villain overall,and the way she fools you is very clever. Badd is just amazing in very sense of the word. The part where he takes out the lollipop is unexpected,and that's when every suspicion you had on him instantaneously disappears.

Gumshoe, Kay,and the Judge are all examples of excellent fanservice- a sheer contrast to the third case. Edgeworth...isn't. He keeps talking about how the truth is so important and all....but it really contrasts with his actual self at the time. He's the Young Demon Prosecutor,suspected of alleyway deals and forging evidence! He isn't even for the truth here,and it feels like an unnecessary retcon of sorts.


The victims...all are really weird and forgettable. Deid Mann? Really? That's a name? Mack Rell? What? Byrne,what's with that weird scarf? Cece...I don't even really remember her that well. Manny has this weird face,too. They all have weird names and strange designs,but not really in the wacky AA way. It really freaks me out. I did like how Colin/Oliver was referred to here though. Nice foreshadowing in hindsight.

The gameplay,in hindsight,works well for what it does. I really like the logic parts here,and the investigation segments even more, the confrontations are nicely paced,though I feel the last part dragged out a bit too long. The presentation and music are all top notch,and it all works well.

But sadly,that's all I have to say about this case. It's nice and fun and works very well,but...that's about it. The story is still impersonal,and the last part drags on a bit too much. It's very good,but doesn't even make it to the great level. The case lacks a huge peaking point for me,and sadly,that's its downfall. So I can only give this case a 7.3/10.


And thus ends AAI,my least favourite AA game. Although it's still good....yeah,it's definitely not great. The presentation overall is solid,but the story never really gets personal and the one off characters are either forgettable,terrible,or Detective Badd. No wait,he's not even a one off character. The individual cases range from very good (4 and sort of 5) to alright (1 and 2) and really bad in terms of being an AA case (3). The dialogue wasn't that great,some designs were off's a good game,but a mediocre AA game.

See you next time-BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! We are now onto the top twenty,so let's see what cases are still left,shall we?

PLvsAA-L-3, L-4.3 (The First Story)

Yep,that's all that's left! Next time,a controversial 2nd/3rd case from a controversial game.

[previous ranking][hint box][next ranking]

Author:  Nurio [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-22
Y'know. Either I completely forgot or never realized this case is actually three cases. I think I've always seen it as just one case. But I gotta say I don't remember much of it anyway. It was less a case and more just an exposition of the plot (brought to you by Professor Layton, thanks).

I do remember some cross examinations, like the Vigilantes you mentioned, so those memories are probably all the first third.
I liked the Vigilantes as well, and I also liked that the witness bench magically grew to accommodate all the witnesses. See? Magic DOES exist!
I remember the only one I didn't like was that one with the stupid name. His name is already stupid, and he gotta be all offended about it too when you can't remember it? Either get an easier name or don't complain. Heck, I don't even complain about people getting my name wrong, and my name is only 5 letters long. I don't know why that guy annoys me so much, but it's just how unreasonable he was.

Darklaw was... Darklaw. It's a shame you could pretty much tell from the start of the game that Darklaw was the Great Witch (Bezella? Can't remember the name) because of the claw she was wearing when you first go to the courthouse. I guess the whole exposition with the Storyteller is part of the third third? If so, I'll not comment on that until later.

Then there's Layton...! Gosh, he just has to ruin every trial he's part of, doesn't he? The moment he entered, it became boring, because he already knew everything and is there to tell you in a strangely convoluted way. Also his parts where you have to present evidence were ridiculously easy, it felt like it was just a trap. Because no endgame should be that easy...

Kudos for the cat (Eve?) being the best not-so-literal red herring so far. When you were supposed to find Eve in one of the earlier chapters, I already thought that there is probably something suspicious about that cat. And when she shows up at the last trial, you just knew that Eve is going to play a vital role in this game. Maybe she even is the Great Witch actually, and the Darklaw claw at the start of the game was just a red herring.
...But nope. Eve is just a cat and does nothing

Author:  Southern Corn [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-22
Yep,the part with the Storyteller is the third third third.

And good old Dzibilchaltunchunchucmil. He's like that a lot.

And yes,I didn't copy paste that :-P

Eve is not only a neat little red herring,it's foreshadowing for the real Eve. And if it was a literal red herring,it'd be,er,the cat from Ghost Trick.

Author:  Nurio [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-21
Oh boy, it's an Investigations case. More stuff I don't remember!

Actually, I remember a few parts here, but least of all do I remember the victims. I didn't even know there was more than one. Deid Mann, Mack Rell... I honestly don't remember them. I only remember the name Deid Mann because someone on the forums said that was the worst character.

I remember a very young Kay using Edgeworth's cravat as a napkin after she cried. ...Which I guess she did after hearing her dad died or something.
Uhm, I remember young Franziska being pretty cute.
I remember Gumshoe being accused, and after suspicions dropped, pledged allegiance to Edgeworth.
I remember the sound of a gunshot happening because of a TV recording.
I remember... Calisto Yew laughing. For some reason.
I remember a vending machine and Franziska wanting a snack!
I remember talking to the Judge, and thinking it uncanny to see him from a different angle and to see a bit more of the lower half of his body...
...That's all.

As for Edgeworth being all about the truth even this early, I don't know how I feel about that. It's true that his pursuit of the truth only really happened after the first game, but at the same time, I can't imagine Edgeworth was ever actually much of a Demon Prosecutor, since I can't imagine Gumshoe would be loyal to Edgeworth and claim he's the best and believe in him so much otherwise. So I guess they tried to find some middle ground between truth-seeking and evilness, and leaned a bit TOO much toward truth-seeking.

Oh, I also never suspected Detective Badd for some reason. So the lollypop moment didn't do much for me.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Sorry for more stuff you don't remember. They should die out soon for the time being after the next couple....

Also,I notice that you haven't shared your thoughts on the cases before number 42. You can go to page one,see my original post,and then go to the cases before. The dgs cases are clearly specified as well,so it shouldn't be any problem.

Author:  Nurio [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Southern Corn wrote:
Spoiler: SC-22
Eve is not only a neat little red herring,it's foreshadowing for the real Eve. And if it was a literal red herring,it'd be,er,the cat from Ghost Trick.

Spoiler: SC-22
Oh right, there was a real/human Eve. Darklaw was Eve, right? Well, I'll find out soon enough when you get to the third third, I suppose.
But I think maybe knowing there's a human Eve was the reason I even thought the cat Eve played a vital role.

Author:  Nurio [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Southern Corn wrote:
Also,I notice that you haven't shared your thoughts on the cases before number 42. You can go to page one,see my original post,and then go to the cases before. The dgs cases are clearly specified as well,so it shouldn't be any problem.

I'm already pretty strapped for time, to the point I struggle to get out these reviews at all. I think I'll get back to the ones before 42 (in reverse order!) after you're done with your list or if I somehow happen to really find time.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Yep,she was.

I understand. You can get back to it whenever you want.

Author:  Thunder84 [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Did I miss another write-up? I think I did.

EDIT: Guess I didnt

Spoiler: Spirit of Justice, Apollo Justice
20. The Rite of Turnabout


Honestly, they should've just kept the name to Turnabout Ritual. Going from Turnabout Magic Show to The Magical Turnabout, and from Turnabout Grand Revolution to just Turnabout Revolution were good changes, but this one is just...not as good. One of my least favorite case titles in the series, to be sure. But outside of that, this is one hell of a case that just feels a tad bit slow.

The main plot starts out with Maya being accused of murdering a priest. Unlike in Golden Court, where it felt like it fit well with the game, this just feels like it's done because Maya is here. And considering how only 2 of the defendants are one-time defendants (Bucky and Ellen), they could've really gone with another Khura'in person here. But anyway, you go up to the crime scene, investigate and all that fun stuff, drag Rayfa everywhere, and it just feels like your run of the mill case, which is actually a pretty big plus in it's favor. Once you hit the trial, you start with another Seance, which is probably the worst one due to the massive confusion it causes (Only one I needed a walkthrough for) and it's the definite low-point of the case, and maybe the game. Once that's over with, you cross examine A'nohn Ihmus (Good lord, the puns) and it feels like classic AA, as you just bulldoze your way through his feeble testimonies. After it's proved he's actually a rebel escapee, he runs away and Maya is pretty much screwed. But right after her guilty verdict, the bailiff comes in to save the day! accusing Maya of serial murder. Welp. So you gotta investigate another murder, and here's my other big issue with this case. It's just two cases shoved into one. DD split up the Cosmic Turnabout and Turnabout for Tomorrow, but honestly those should've been together. However, these should've been spread out just a bit more, as both feel crammed into one case just for the sake of a second seance. But putting that aside, this is the much better half of the case, as pretty much everything starts to come together. You find the true scene of Rheel Nehmu's murder, do some other stuff, and go into trial day 2. Pretty soon, it's proved that Nehmu is actually Puhray Zeh'lot (More puns) and, with no other choice, you have to get Maya to channel the victim, the priest. Because the one thing the world really needs is to see Maya channeling an old man who does creepy yoga. But besides the general creepiness factor, Inmee (the priest) is the final boss of the chapter, and that was one of the best parts of the game. I always thought there would be another witness, and even at the thought route I was confused. When it came together that Inmee's death was a suicide to protect his wife, it finally came together. One confession and exorcism later, and the case is closed.

The characters are pretty good, with the main cast standing out more than the one-timers. Having Maya back, although accused, was fantastic. Rayfa was the surprise star of the case, as her teenage attitude of "Trying to act mature" was often hilarious and perfectly written. Datz is another star, and his over the top animations are a joy to watch. Phoenix, Ahlbi, Ema, and the Judge are all pretty much the same as they were in previous cases, which in other words means perfectly fine. Nahyuta is meh, but I've already shared my opinions on him before. The brief appearance of Queen Ga'ran plants that seed of doubt in her, and this is the only time in the game where you get an extensive conversation with Inga, who is just a complete dickbag. When you find out that those papers he was stamping were execution orders, it really sets the tone for his character. The weak link here are the Inmee's, particulary Beh'leeb. For one, their names are awful (Tahrust and Beh'leeb). I don't even understand why they chose those for puns here, and they honestly didn't need puns in the first place. Tahrust is fun to cross-examine, but his position in the rebellion makes it questionable for why he'd try to pin the crime on Maya, who was completely innocent. Sure, he loves his wife, but would he be willing to sacrifice another innocent for her? As for Beh'leeb, she's nothing memorable. Not bad by any means, but not good either.

Of course, there's one big part I've left out, and if you've played the game, you know that it has to do with Apollo, Nahyuta, and Dhurke. I'll be talking about that more when I get to 6-5.

19. Turnabout Succession


Here it is: The first final case falls (Not counting The Final Witch Trial, but that's so far off I don't really count it), and it's from Apollo Justice. If it weren't for the questionable motive for the big bad, and the super-righteous story they give Phoenix that he didn't really need, this case would be much higher. Due to the crazy way this case functions, I'm gonna be talking about each section in detail.

Investigation/Trial, Day 1: The plot is, well, very complicated. It starts off with what looks like a simple poisoning incident. With the defendant being "probably guilty" and not willing to talk, along with the fact that Phoenix purposely chose to use this case to test the jurist system, it seems like Apollo's work shouldn't be too difficult. After some investigating, nothing solid is proven except for Misham being a forger. But after uncovering the sketches under his paintings, Apollo finds some very odd sketches; sketches of his first 3 cases. The trial approaches, and you reveal that Misham was the forger, and that he was actually killed by a stamp, not the coffee mug. However, if Misham was the forger, he would've died 7 years ago. With no other option, Apollo names Vera the forger, and she then confirms that to be true. Press her a little more, and it becomes increasingly apparent that Vera was the one that forged evidence for Phoenix. But, after chewing her nails too much, she passes out from acute atroquinine poisoning. Her nail polish had been laced by the real killer, her former client, and she was then put into intensive care. It's here where the case takes it's first turn for the crazy, as you rewind 7 years to Phoenix's last trial, where he was found of forging evidence.

Trial, 7 years ago: It's here that you start connecting all of the dots, as you find out that your defendant is Zak Gramarye. Gramarye, now obviously shown to the player, is both Shadi Enigmar (The first victim) and Trucy's biological father. Trucy gives Phoenix the mysterious diary page, and the trial is set underway. Gumshoe makes his great comeback, and he's responsible for the first portion of testimony. Once you prove that Zak couldn't have shot both bullets, Valant gets called up to the stand. How Valant aged that much in 7 years is beyond me. Anywho, you prove that Valant tampered with the scene, and then it's time to present that fatal diary page. You present it, Misham is called in, Phoenix realizes that he's screwed, and Zak runs away. Fun times.

MASON System: And here comes the most controversial part of the case. This is really hard to recap, as the jumps from present and past are pretty ridiculous. I'm just gonna be going off the wikia summary here, as I don't remember how the MASON system really went. So, two weeks after the trial, and Phoenix is still confused as to what happened. He brings in Trucy due to her lack of living relatives, and Trucy just kinda adopts herself into the family. Phoenix then talks to Meekins (WHY) and shows that Zak performed his escape trick by using Trucy's Mr. Hat to distract Meekins. Phoenix then confronts Misham about the client of the murder, and after talking to Vera, he finds out that it was actually Kristoph. This basically confirms that Kristoph is the killer if you're paying attention. Phoenix finally goes and has a chat with Valant, who's now in detention due to him being the new suspect. Now, fast forward 7 years, and we get to Zak and Phoenix's converstaion right before his murder. A lot happens here, and it's revealed that Trucy and Apollo are half-siblings. Zak also wills the Gramarye magic to Trucy instead of letting it go to Valant. Phoenix then goes to Kristoph's cell to interrogate him, and this is where the infamous black psyche-locks show up. Besides that, there's not a whole lot to do here. Phoenix then returns to Misham studio to talk to Brushel, and once again, nothing too noteworthy happens here. Phoenix then heads out to Sunshine Coliseum, where he finally resolves the Gramarye murder with Valant. Valant, wanting Magnifi's tricks, intended to kill him and frame Zak. However, he couldn't do it, but Magnifi shot himself as he left. Valant then took this opportunity to frame Zak. With nothing left to work for, Valant turns himself in. With almost everything solved, Phoenix returns one last time to Kristoph's cell to find the mysterious yellow letter Misham sent to the client of the forgery. He finds enough evidence to prove that it is indeed Kristoph, but legally he couldn't take it, leaving him with nothing but a recording instead.

Trial, Day 2: All of that craziness, and we're only on day 2?! Good lord. Apollo, unlike his other 3 trials, comes out firing. He immediately goes for the kill by accusing Kristoph of trying to kill Vera with her nail polish, taking advantage of her habit of biting nails when she gets nervous. Kristoph fights back hard, but eventually Klavier turns on him and joins Apollo in his fight to take him down. It doesn't take long to link Kristoph to the murder of Misham, and the obvious motive being the forgery of seven years ago. Apollo accuses Kristoph of being the client, and Kristoph follows up with a common theme in this trial: Evidence or it didn't happen. Apollo presents the yellow letter, or the copy of it that Phoenix recreated from his video tape. However, the Judge can't accept it into evidence. With the trial fast approaching towards a guilty verdict, Klavier objects and says that Kristoph was the one who told him about the forged evidence. But this isn't enough to prove Kristoph murdered Misham, and with no evidence, everything is going in Kristoph's favor. Then Klavier drops the bomb that this is actually the Jurist trial, and with the circumstantial evidence available, it's pretty obvious what'll happen. When Kristoph finds out that Phoenix was the one behind it, and that he had done it for this trial purposely due to the lack of evidence, Kristoph has an epic breakdown, and the final verdict is reached.

Wow, that's a lot of text. But we're not done yet! Characters shouldn't take too long though. The normal cast is fine, nothing noteworthy except for Phoenix's determination to take down Kristoph and Klavier's turn from protecting Kristoph to fighting against him. Kristoph is a great villain, and his mystery motive from the beginning is solved. But the overarching motive brings EVERYTHING down. Instead of this being some sore of massive lunge for power, or to avenge a family member, etc, it's just because Kristoph lost a GAME OF CARDS. WHAT THE FUCK. His ridiculous pettiness is just terrible, and it tears down the entire case. Brushel is decent, Vera is the best defendant of the game not counting Phoenix (Which doesn't say much), Drew Misham is solid, and Meekins is trash. Zak is kind of a bitch (Especially to Valant) and Valant is a great character who I wish would come back again.

I'm getting tired, as this is a lot more writing than normal. But the forgettable cast outside of the big characters (Zak, Valant, Kristoph, Klavier), the weird pacing, and Kristoph's horrible motive slot it in at 19.

Next up, another 3rd case and another final case.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

That was a fun read,but make some space for the spoiler tag or it'll be really narrow due to your profile getting in the way. And I'm guessing Serenade and Ablaze next time?

Oh,and write up coming up later. Internet wasn't really coming for most of the day so I wasn't able to get it out. This should be interesting.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

And with number 21 out of the way,we are finally onto...

The Great Tier

Now we are onto the really really good cases,and these are seriously entertaining in every way possible. The best of the filler cases will be here (except maybe one or two), and a few finales. Their score ranges from 7.5 but not quite to 8. So we'll start off with the always controversial #20:


Spoiler: all teh gaems
#20-Turnabout Serenade


And finally,the first AJ case falls! I actually really like the game,unlike many others. I was simply hooked the whole way through,and really liked the case. And while I do admit it has its flaws,it's still amazing to me,and definitely in my top three. And this one has garnered a lot of hate,and I'm here to defend it.

This case actually starts off nice and slow,taking about a half hour to get to the actual murder. This makes finding out about it all the more surprising and really spices up the investigation;as you know that the crime is fresh and you can't leave the concert. It's rather cool,just like the Gavinners.

The story is disliked,but I do like it for what it is-a nice setting and even some foreshadowing for 4-4,what with Phoenix away and Lamiroir and the end speech about how the law isn't perfect. It's really nice,and the subplot about the Chief Justice is a wonderful grey area solution,though only because Borginia was too dumb about their cocoons. Really,they could have just extracted the medicine from the cocoon and THEN given it to the world if they were so afraid about the poison bing passed on.


The mystery does get a lot of flak,but I believe that most of these can be explained by saying 'Daryan manipulated the crime.' Though there are still a couple of plot holes,like 'If Lamiroir was in the vents,how come there wasn't any reverberation?' or 'Why didn't Klavier tell us about Lamiroir and Machi's acts in the first trial' or 'Why is Lamiroir keeping everything from us IN A MURDER CASE just because of some dumb contract that should be nil in this situation', or 'Why aren't Valant and Lamiroir even considered suspects?!'. Okay,maybe more than a couple. I admit that this is a weak point of the case,but I just love the idea behind the case.

That is,the concert lyrics being followed by the killer. It's such a Eureka moment and really gives an eerie feeling throughout the case. The whole thing with how you technically had to 'cheat' to catch the killer was really neat as well. So even though there are some holes,I am a big fan of the mystery introduced here.

The characters are better than they're given credit for. Machi is legitimately sympathetic (a child trapped in a country they can't leave?),and him taking off his glasses at the end gave me shivers. It's not even a completely happy ending for him,but the lesser of two evils. That's what I love about AJ-the characters,the plots,the general endings:they're all rather grey areas,and that really makes it wonderfully three dimensional. The game itself is one giant grey area (maybe that's why it's so loved and so hated at the same time?).

Daryan is caught by a minor loophole,but he's a genuinely smart guy (even if his phallic hair is dumb) who's just obtuse enough to be tricky to catch. Valiant is fun,even if he's not the star of the show here. I do like how he cosplays as Lamiroir perfectly,yet somehow doesn't recognise her (though that could be because it had been years at that point). Speaking of whom...


Lamiroir is actually rather uninteresting to me. She seems mysterious,but I really didn't care that much. I feel that she's a weak point. Why does she hide a truckload of info from us even when the boy who is like a son to her is the defendant?! Ema is here and this is the only case where she actually testifies. I rather sympathetise with her in terms of Gavin,the Gavinners,and murders.

Trucy is her normal cutesy self,and Apollo actually gets an epic moment in the second trial. Romein seems to be interesting,but ultimately is just another Akbey Hicks. Klavier is another weak point,with his motivations being skewed,and he shows more emotion over a missed cue than his best friend being arrested.

The gameplay is rather fun,even if it is long. But it's long enough so that it doesn't drag. The testimonies are good,and the nervous tics are very subtle. I actually liked the music editing thing,and the video tape never really got on my nerves that much. Though I will admit,the flashbacks here are freaking stupid and keep popping up. That wonderful scene where you witness a man's dying breath? Ruined by unnecessary repetition. The music here is fun and fine,and I actually am a huge fan of the Guitar's Serenade. Even if the 3D models haven't really aged that well.


....oh,and that's Turnabout Serenade. Despite seemingly having a load of flaws,I feel that those pale in comparison in terms of just how much fun I had figuring everything out. It's a blast to replay,and deserves way more praise than it gets. So I give it a 7.5/10.

Next up,a fourth case that ends rather abruptly.

[previous ranking][hint box][next ranking]

Author:  Nurio [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-20
Pff, what can I say about this case. I didn't really like any of the AJ cases. (I mean, I liked them, but not as much as the other cases.) It's a combination of things... The timbre of the music never jived with me, some of the character designs were really weird, and I went to this game right after the trilogy, meaning I felt really bad about a broken Phoenix, and a missing Maya/Edgeworth/Gumshoe/Pearl/etc.
Because of that, I don't know if I can properly review these cases, because I might be biased. And on top of all that, I also don't remember too much of these cases. ...But I'll try.

I really liked that you have some casual innocent moments before the murder actually happens. (It reminds me a bit of 2-2.)
I am the kind of guy who always intentionally goes the wrong way first in games to explore everything before going back on track to progress. Even in Ace Attorney, that means I want to have investigated, presented and discussed everything before moving on. I even have a system for that: First I present evidence (if applicable), then investigate, then talk. But in this case, I remember when you're in some hall with Ema, when you start investigating the door, it moves on to the murder. I was freaking out at that moment, because... "No! No! I haven't talked with Ema yet! Go back! Ignore the gunshot!"
(Actually, it might've been Trucy, though my memory says Ema. ...My memory isn't that good. Point is, it was someone.)

The characters in this case (like most AJ cases, sadly) didn't do it for me. Some guy with penis hair? Another guy who dies at the start of the case? Some frail kid who doesn't talk directly with me? And to top it all off, the case focuses on Klavier's band, whom I never really liked either. I already don't really like rock bands, and when the people behind it are such glimmerous fops.... eh.
Interestingly, I wasn't bothered by the weirdness of how they could even arrest a frail kid like that, because I think that particularly objection was brought up by Apollo and explained by Klavier, though I don't remember the exact explanation.

Also, I remember when Trucy found one of Lamiroir's diamonds (or something like that?), she mentioned how it looked familiar. And right then I thought "Oh, okay. Guess she's your mother then." I don't know what it is with me and casually figuring out the semi-minor plot twists, because I never really pay attention to that stuff and intentionally try to not think things through too much so that I can get surprised. But in Ace Attorney, particularly SoJ, I kept figuring out stuff way in advance.

...But anyway. I liked going through the video and also finding the fault in the song recording, though a lot of that seemed pretty circumstantial. "You played a note wrong! Therefore you're a murderer!" ...Geez, Apollo, I didn't know you cared about musical quality that much.

I honestly don't remember much about the smuggling plot, so, uh... yeah. Guess that was good? =P

Author:  Southern Corn [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Sad to hear you don't like the cases of this game. I'm a really big fan of it too,but fair enough.

And yes,it was Ema.

Author:  Nurio [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Yeah, wish I liked them more, too. For what it's worth, I still liked them, and I don't regret playing them, but for me, I think it's the low point of the series.

Author:  Thunder84 [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

This cold I have will be the end of me, I swear to god. If I suddenly stop posting and/or pull a Cardiovore, you know what did me in.

Spoiler: Trials and Tribulations
18. Recipe for Turnabout


Ugh, I'm still recovering from that massive write-up yesterday. And I still have another huge one coming up next. I mean, I know it'll be worse once the top 10 hits, but still. Recipe for Turnabout looks like a basic third case at first glance, but with fake testimony, fake evidence, a fake murder, and even a fake Phoenix, it becomes something much, much different.

At the start, we see Phoenix failing against Payne, which is an obvious red flag, because Payne is a complete joke. Gumshoe comes in, he's all pissed cuz you failed to defend Maggey, and once again Phoenix is thrust into a case out of nowhere. Nothing too big happens the first day besides Maya getting a job as a waitress, and then Maya channeling Mia to seduce Kudo (Ewww). Get to Kudo's testimony, and this is where some of the best damn contradictions in the series are. The teacup one with the lip-prints might very well be the best one in the series, as it's absolutely brilliant. And how Kudo goes out at the end, with his complete fail of a make-up testimony, is hilarious. Get to the second day, and Phoenix and Maya break arguably the most useless psyche-lock ever, and then go to Blue Screens Inc. where they get to meet the most pointless character in the entire series. This is not a joke, Lisa Basil is even worse than Penny Nichols. Ignoring that snore-fest of a conversation, we finally get to go to Tender Lender and really discover what's at the heart of the case. Furio Tigre is finally revealed to be Xin Eohp, and it's pretty obvious that he's the main villain. Get to the trial, which is not as good as day one, is kinda weird in the first session with the stupid mirror explanation, but it picks up once Tigre is brought in. And how Phoenix took down Tigre, with the phony evidence, was a fitting way to end the case.

The characters are all mostly good. Tigre is a beast, and he's a great obvious villain. Viola is very, very creepy, and whenever she pops up, everything just kinda stopped. No music, just her giggling. It was honestly terrifying at times, and I love it. When I first heard Armstrong's name, I thought it'd be some big, buff, manly dude running the pink french restaurant. Instead, we got a terrifying monster that is just so....ewwwwwwwww. But his ewwwww factor is what makes me generally enjoy him. Kudo is great, and his obsession with young waitresses is absolutely creepy and weird. Basil could've been replaced with Kudo's seeds, and it would be a big improvement. Maggey is fine, although her sudden hatred of Gumshoe isn't really her character. Speaking of Gumshoe, his desperation to protect Maggey is adorable. Maya and Phoenix are about the same as always, and I'll talk more about Godot in 3-5.

Ugh, I don't have time to write up the other one right now. I'll save it for tomorrow, or Thursday if I can't get to it. Oh, and it's the final case I mentioned earlier.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

omg it's my hundredth post I'm so excited

Ahem! It's now time for number 19 to come up! ...please do before I freak out any further.


Spoiler: all teh gaems
#19-The Forgotten Turnabout


It's been long enough,so another AAI2 case takes the stand! And it's the fourth case! This case is super good and amazingly fun,but why is it a little down in the Great Tier? There's a reason,but we'll get to that later. For now,let's start talking!

This case opens up rather confusingly,with Kay seemingly falling off a large building. Looking back,I'm surprised that I never really questioned how she even fell off a fifty story building. But it's really scary how quiet she acts the whole way through. Add that with the PIC subplot,and you've got a gripping opening.

The story here is just as gripping as the opening. The setting is nicely generic,like 1-3 and 4-2 (which is nice,seeing as we never really have too many cases that take place in the downtown section of the city), and the use of the PIC HQ as the 'crime scene' is clever. I don't really like the use of Blaise,but I'll talk about that afterwards.


The amnesia subplot is actually quite good,because it isn't used as a contrivance,but as the crux of the whole thing. It doesn't even come back till the end,to show it's importance. Oh,and don't forget Edgeworth giving up his badge. Even if you knew it wouldn't be permanent,it was still a gripping and emotional scene.

The storage room is interesting fanservice as well,filled to the brim with little Easter eggs such as Grossberg's painting,Mr.Monkey,the Alif Red,Calisto's perfume,and even the bull doll,which plays a central role in the murder. It's interesting and weird,even if it gets no real confusion. That room really creeped me out (like that mannequin of a naked lady for some reason?).

The mystery is gripping,as everything slowly and gradually unfolds. I'm pretty sure this is the only time a victim actually manages to escape the crime scene and only die due to their still open wound. The fact that the murder weapon wasn't even found adds an ominous air to the case as a whole.

I also liked the fact that the victim was the one out for blood. That doesn't happen too often. A lot of loose ends aren't even really wrapped up,like the letters and the deal with Blaise and Courtney. In fact,in the final case,it's revealed that there was another crime entirely on that roof,and yet you don't even know that at the time.

The characters are all good. The cameo of John and Penny was a bit awkward,I'll admit,but Shelley makes a great return at the end with the receiver from 2-4. Egdeworth undergoes incredible development,and the lack of Gumshoe afterwards is rather sad. Kay really weirds me out here with how quiet she is. I would've actually liked her to be like that a bit longer,and it was certainly unique.


Franziska returns here,and is a pleasant surprise after having to deal with Courtney for so long. Lotta isn't as pleasant,but she never really got on my nerves. It was strange how she wasn't even considered a suspect though. There's no real proof on her side,and they could have easily arrested her. Sebastian was really sad here,and I actually liked that his testimony was so vague that it actually became tricky to contradict. I find that kinda funny. Courtney...isn't that great. I feel that her turning point is too abrupt,and makes no sense when you consider her earlier actions.

Jenson didn't really do much,and I felt that she was too easy to break. It only took one single testimony,and then BREAKDOWN. It really felt shortened and abrupt. And once again,why wasn't she considered a suspect? Young is just there with her for the most part,and she never even bothers to speak. It's rather odd that these two are the only minor characters introduced in this case. Ema is back here,but once again,she's barely here,and is only there to be the one to reintroduce forensics. So far I've noticed that Yamazaki doesn't seem to write Ema well;in AAI,this game and SoJ.

And Blaise is here. To be honest....he's not a very good villain. People praise him for being the catalyst of the series....but honestly,I like Manfred as that more. Blaise only did everything in an indirect manner;von Karma took everything into his own hands. He feels like a lesser Gant (kind of like Alba,but way easier to take down). Sure,he's terrible,but he's similar to Dahlia in the way that his personality is just being evil. His logic chess was very fun though,and once he got angry,it was a turning point.

The presentation is good here,and the gameplay is nice. The Logic Chess in this case was hard,and the testimonies here are obtuse enough for a semifinal case. The music is great,especially Amnesiac Kay's theme. So far it seems nice and good. But there's one major problem with this case. The pacing is completely off.


This is a problem I mentioned in the last two AAI2 cases,but here it's not too long,but way too short. And not in the way like 3-4 or 6-4. No,I mean like 5-4, where it ends on a cliffhanger and the actual case goes onto the final case. It's really anticlimactic, and kills pretty much everything the case is going for. The last two testimonies are too simple,and the breakdown happens too early. It's too rushed and leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.

The individual sections are even weirdly paced. They start off with 1 hour sections,but then there's a really short section followed by a really long one. The ending parts are also badly split. Half of the last section is after the breakdown where every single characters drag it even further by individually saying goodbye. I'm not even joking,it's terrible here.So sadly,I cannot put it any higher.


But this is still a really good case,even in spite of that problem with the pacing. So I give it a 7.625/10. See you next time!

Hint for the next one: A case where Mr.Hat plays a key role.

[previous ranking][hint box][next ranking] Thanks everybody. I'm the acest of attorneys now :klavier:

Author:  Nurio [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-19
The "Forgetten" Turnabout, huh?
Also, all your images are broken. Strategywiki does not allow hotlinking!

Another Investigations case. Hm... I remember this one vaguely.

Let me start with Blaise. I agree that he wasn't really a great villain for the reasons you mentioned. Though it makes me wonder why Dahlia does work for me. Maybe it's because Blaise almost kind of feels like a retcon... "You were expecting Von Karma. But it was me, Blaise!"
Dahlia fit much better in the existing canon than Blaise, in my opinion. And at least with her you can reason she turned out this way because of shitty parents (where Iris at least had Bikini to feel loved) whereas Blaise has nothing of that.

Speaking of shitty parents. Yeah, I felt bad for I-forgot-his-name-but-I-am-talking-about-Blaise's-son-whom-I-will-now-call-Jack Sebastian, though it's again the exact development I saw coming the moment I saw him. "Oh, he's a bumbling fool. But I bet it's not really his fault -- no one just really taught him properly how to do things, and it's all his dad's fault. He'll have to stand up against his dad's shitty parenting, which will make him cry but grow strong in the end."
I don't know how I keep doing this... :ron:

Amnesiac Kay was sad, though part of me wondered why Edgeworth cared so much. He isn't one to quickly care about other people to that extent, and he only knew Kay for a few days. Yet, here, he seems concerned over her almost as if she were his daughter. Not terribly out of character or anything, since I presume anyone would care at least to some degree, but it still felt a bit... strange? I liked that theme that played, though. To the point I actually didn't want to hear it too often, out of fear it getting ruined due to repetition.

Can you elaborate on why you think Yamazaki doesn't write a good Ema?

Now, the actual mystery, I don't remember much about. But I think I remember a burn mark being mentioned on a recording or something? And I knew that it must've been talking about the obviously evil-looking man and not the innocent-looking person who acted as a red herring in this case.
Uhm... I also remember there being a conclusion "There's a secret floor in this building!". What, so, Edgeworth is the first to ever find this out? No one ever counted the number of floors and saw there was a mismatch? I dunno, it just doesn't seem so secret to me when it's something anyone who bothers to count can find out.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Alright,long rant/post incoming.

Spoiler: SC-19
Hmm,I could've sworn that it worked for number 21. But whatever,they're fixed now.

And of course you remember the one which has 'Forgotten' in the title. :basil:

Maybe the reason you've been seeing the big twists coming is your overexposure to the genre? Still kinda hilarious though.

And you misremember everything. Edgeworth met Kay years ago in the Deid Mann trial. So,knowing her well by this point,he stands up for her. Though I do agree this's feels like a Phoenix thing.

THAT IS VERY TRUE. How did no one else try to count the number of floors? It can clearly be seen there in the TV too.

Alright,in terms of Yamazaki and Ema,it's divided into two parts. The first is AAI Ema,who just seems to be there for the most part and bombard you with forensics mini games,but doesn't really do anything. Her crush on Edgeworth doesn't really lead to too many hilarious moments between them,and her abandoning her foreign teacher in this case is really out of character to me.

The second is SoJ Ema,and here's the crux of the argument. Takumi knew how to write Ema in both 1-5 and AJ. In 1-5,she has some parallels to Maya but has an obsssion with science. But there's some interesting chemistry (haha) with her sister,which peaks at a great emotional moment at the end. In AJ,she still has a love for science,and grins with delight at the mention of it. But it's overshadowed by her snarky cynical snackoo eating self who's angry because she never got the dream job she wanted.

I'm not trying to say how great she is,but how she was written. In both of these examples ,she has her scientific interests (which Yamazaki does fine),but also had her own sad problems (like her sister and job), which created some interesting contrast. In 1-5, the proportion of the former is shown to the latter is 4:1,but in AJ,it's the reciprocal. Yet in AAI and AAI2,it's googolplex:0. There's no real contrast here,which really makes her bland.

And in SoJ,while I do admit that she does show some worries,it's not very well written or interesting. In the investigation of 6-2 and the first part of 6-5 (and all of 6-6), she's written well and has her snarky moments. But every other time,she's written all 'Oooooh Mr.Wright/Apollo I'm soooo sorry for what happened'. This sort of worked in 3-3 with Gumshoe as he believed Maggey was innocent,but here she's still rather bland,and the fact that she's the detective is rather annoying.

Gumshoe felt sorry about everything in 2-2,2-4, and 1-4, but he still did his job in the end. Ema just keeps apologising over and over. Even the snackoo bits aren't that snarky,and they're really annoying. Even her chemistry with some characters,like Athena and Maya are underdeveloped and generic.So basically AA6 Ema is to me what AJ Ema is to most others. Just dull and uninteresting.

Sorry for the rant there.

But next time,in number 18,she'll be a good Ema. See you then!

Author:  Nurio [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Southern Corn wrote:
Spoiler: SC-19
And you misremember everything. Edgeworth met Kay years ago in the Deid Mann trial. So,knowing her well by this point,he stands up for her. Though I do agree this's feels like a Phoenix thing.

Spoiler: SC-19
Hm, I could've sworn that Edgeworth didn't really remember Kay after that and AAI1-2 was the first real meeting again. He sure didn't act like he knew here there, right?

Southern Corn wrote:
Spoiler: SC-19
Alright,in terms of Yamazaki and Ema,it's divided into two parts. The first is AAI Ema,who just seems to be there for the most part and bombard you with forensics mini games,but doesn't really do anything. Her crush on Edgeworth doesn't really lead to too many hilarious moments between them,and her abandoning her foreign teacher in this case is really out of character to me.

The second is SoJ Ema,and here's the crux of the argument. Takumi knew how to write Ema in both 1-5 and AJ. In 1-5,she has some parallels to Maya but has an obsssion with science. But there's some interesting chemistry (haha) with her sister,which peaks at a great emotional moment at the end. In AJ,she still has a love for science,and grins with delight at the mention of it. But it's overshadowed by her snarky cynical snackoo eating self who's angry because she never got the dream job she wanted.

I'm not trying to say how great she is,but how she was written. In both of these examples ,she has her scientific interests (which Yamazaki does fine),but also had her own sad problems (like her sister and job), which created some interesting contrast. In 1-5, the proportion of the former is shown to the latter is 4:1,but in AJ,it's the reciprocal. Yet in AAI and AAI2,it's googolplex:0. There's no real contrast here,which really makes her bland.

And in SoJ,while I do admit that she does show some worries,it's not very well written or interesting. In the investigation of 6-2 and the first part of 6-5 (and all of 6-6), she's written well and has her snarky moments. But every other time,she's written all 'Oooooh Mr.Wright/Apollo I'm soooo sorry for what happened'. This sort of worked in 3-3 with Gumshoe as he believed Maggey was innocent,but here she's still rather bland,and the fact that she's the detective is rather annoying.

Gumshoe felt sorry about everything in 2-2,2-4, and 1-4, but he still did his job in the end. Ema just keeps apologising over and over. Even the snackoo bits aren't that snarky,and they're really annoying. Even her chemistry with some characters,like Athena and Maya are underdeveloped and generic.So basically AA6 Ema is to me what AJ Ema is to most others. Just dull and uninteresting.

Hm, yes, I see. And I actually do agree with you here, though I also think it doesn't annoy me as much as it does for you. Which is weird, because I actually do care about Ema.
Spoiler: Yamazaki games in general
Also, I think Yamazaki in general flanderizes characters. One of my bigger complaints for SoJ is how Phoenix is constantly the Bluff King, even to his own acknowledgment. Everything is a bluff. I can't even remember one time where someone (either Maya, Apollo, Athena or Phoenix himself) said his theory is interesting, well thought out, or heck, even a theory. No, it's all a bluff.

Ema kinda got the same treatment, except science. Not too sure why it doesn't bother me as much as Phoenix, for example. Maybe it's because I see Ema more as a side character and I secretly just yearn for Gumshoe(????)

Author:  Southern Corn [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-19
Yeah,but she reminded him at the end of the third case,so he remembers what happened now.

Also I actually feel that bringing Ema back for SoJ was a good idea,just really sloppily executed.

Honestly though I agree with you on Phoenix. He feels like a self parody of himself at this point. Which is weird because I didn't even mind him in DD. Even in the original trilogy and the flashback scene in AJ he never really admitted to bluffing. He was just good at coming up with impromptu theories.

Author:  tiger_festival [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Southern Corn wrote:
Spoiler: SC19
Alright,in terms of Yamazaki and Ema,it's divided into two parts. The first is AAI Ema,who just seems to be there for the most part and bombard you with forensics mini games,but doesn't really do anything. Her crush on Edgeworth doesn't really lead to too many hilarious moments between them,and her abandoning her foreign teacher in this case is really out of character to me.

The second is SoJ Ema,and here's the crux of the argument. Takumi knew how to write Ema in both 1-5 and AJ. In 1-5,she has some parallels to Maya but has an obsssion with science. But there's some interesting chemistry (haha) with her sister,which peaks at a great emotional moment at the end. In AJ,she still has a love for science,and grins with delight at the mention of it. But it's overshadowed by her snarky cynical snackoo eating self who's angry because she never got the dream job she wanted.

I'm not trying to say how great she is,but how she was written. In both of these examples ,she has her scientific interests (which Yamazaki does fine),but also had her own sad problems (like her sister and job), which created some interesting contrast. In 1-5, the proportion of the former is shown to the latter is 4:1,but in AJ,it's the reciprocal. Yet in AAI and AAI2,it's googolplex:0. There's no real contrast here,which really makes her bland.

And in SoJ,while I do admit that she does show some worries,it's not very well written or interesting. In the investigation of 6-2 and the first part of 6-5 (and all of 6-6), she's written well and has her snarky moments. But every other time,she's written all 'Oooooh Mr.Wright/Apollo I'm soooo sorry for what happened'. This sort of worked in 3-3 with Gumshoe as he believed Maggey was innocent,but here she's still rather bland,and the fact that she's the detective is rather annoying.

Gumshoe felt sorry about everything in 2-2,2-4, and 1-4, but he still did his job in the end. Ema just keeps apologising over and over. Even the snackoo bits aren't that snarky,and they're really annoying. Even her chemistry with some characters,like Athena and Maya are underdeveloped and generic.So basically AA6 Ema is to me what AJ Ema is to most others. Just dull and uninteresting.

AAI Ema is more of a glorified cameo than anything, so there's really not much time for the game to really dig into her problems, if any. Though in hindsight, prior to SoJ, it was the one appearance where life hasn't punched her in the gut.

SoJ Ema, yeah I have to agree. All the pre-release material advertised her as having finally achieved the position she wanted her whole life (even though on average a detective gets paid more than a forensic scientist, but maybe that's different in Japanifornia).That raised a flag for me, as that just bypassed any possible development she could have had; learning to accept her position and make the best of it. I even joked that it was just a setup to kill her off because they wouldn't be able to flesh out her character. But at the very least, this would mean that she would be be a lot more confident in her work, right? Well they kept her enthusiasm for forensics, but she's also less snarky than either of her non AAI appearances and for half the game, she's regretting doing her job. It almost feels like character regression.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

I think we can all agree that besides a few exceptions,the AAI series has never done cameos that well. Heck,even DD and SoJ haven't really either.

But anyways,number 18! This one should also be....rather controversial. Hmm,but then again....anyway! Come on up,my friend!


Spoiler: all teh gaems
#18-Turnabout Corner


And already,another AJ case falls! This one I REALLY like,and also seems to get way too much hate. But really,it's sooooo much fun for me everytime I play it,that I just can't help but love this case! Let me go into detail.

The opening is another great 3D cutscene,and it actually describes the case pretty well. 'Spinning big crimes and little crimes together'....and of course it ends with murder. But then the case starts off in a lighthearted fashion,with Apollo coming to the ostensible Wright Law Offices,only to discover that it's actually the Wright Talent Agency. Then you meet lil' old Trucy-doll and then you try and figure out what to do. It's nice and jolly,and I LOVE the way everyone mocks Apollo. It leads to some cynical outbursts as well as some hilarious dialogue,which I dare say surpasses the script of some of the original trilogy.

Like the opening says,the whole story is weaved by small and big crimes alike. And that's just what's so fascinating about this case. The hit and run,the stolen stand,the snatched panties,the 'surgery',and the actual murder...they all depended upon themselves to have succeeded. If you would remove any one of these crimes,the crime wouldn't have even happened. And that's what makes the case for me. It's such a captivating phenomenon,that I daresay that it's one of the best 'stories' from the series.


Other than that,I liked the motivations behind the case (which I'll talk about in the characters section),and the whole thing with the Kitakis was genuinely sympathetic. And the mystery is also good. They slowly start introducing you to each little crime one by one,and then explain how they're all interconnected. There's even some foreshadowing here and there (like the blocked muffler,for example),and it's not all blindingly obvious from the get go who did it,surprisingly (though it becomes readily apparent in the second day).

The characters are fun. You've got Apollo,Trucy,and Klavier,who all are funny and spout some good lines now and then. Ema returns in an unexpected fashion,losing her dream job and all,and is very relatable. They took a risk with her,and I'd say it paid off in the end. Though I do wonder why she didn't testify at all? I feel that she should've been the first witness instead of Wocky. Phoenix once again acts mysterious throughout the case while not saying much,the edgelord.


And then you've got the new characters. Eldoon is actually very relatable,and I liked him a lot. His transformation was somehow both hilarious and subtle at the same time,and I almost wish that he also was a witness. That speech he gives about a looming unstoppable darkness at the end was a great end to the second investigation. Wocky I'll admit is a terrible defendant,but I also felt a strange affection for the poor kid. His parents are also great,and like I said before,easily sympathize-able. That transformation of Big Wins is easily the second biggest twist in this case. Oh,and Alita! I....actually like her a bit more than Dahlia.

Yeah,while she was a bit obvious by the second day,I felt that she was generally more fun to deal with than her,and that's mainly because she transformed faster so that we didn't have to waste twenty testimonies with her boring meek self. She's even a sympathetic villain since she only killed in self defense (even if her motivations weren't very pure). Her breakdown was probably the worst one in the series,but I'd say she wasn't that bad. Oh,and finally there's the panty thief Stickler!

Now,I'm not just going to address the character,but the jokes involving him. Yes,you know the one. I shan't repeat it,so hear me once-the magic panties. The thing about these jokes is that it isn't as bad as people make it out to be,taking aside the occasional innuendo. Why? There's a simple answer for that. BECAUSE THERE'S ACTUALLY A REACTION TO IT.


Yes,the characters all react in a disgusted manner whenever the subject is mentioned,and they clearly show it;unlike in DD,where they all just treat it as an everyday occurrence and don't give a darn. The thing here is that obviously they dislike the joke too. And that's why I don't mind Stickler that much. Yes,he did what he did. But it was of innocent motivations-just to figure out a magic trick. And I like that a bit more. His involvement in the case is nice and good too,and his mannerisms are both endearing and hilarious.

The presentation is stellar,and the music is very good. Fun fact:the reminiscence theme in this case plays for pretty much everyone:Winfred,Eldoon,Stickler,and Alita. Once again enforces the whole overall 'little and big crimes' thing the story was going for. Trucy's theme here is way better than it is in DD and SoJ,and the general investigation themes are fun.

The gameplay is certainly unique. The forensic stuff returns,with some footprinting,and the perceive function is properly introduced here. Alita's in particular were neat,but I did like how they foreshadowed Wesley's tic in hindsight.The testimonies are good,and aside from the occasional faulty reasoning (Trucy can't pick up both the headlight and the slipper for some reason in the first day,but she can do it just fine on the second day),the investigations flow well. The setting is also very generic,but in a fun sense,and weren't disconnected like 3-3.


And that's Turnabout Corner! It's a nice and fun filler case that doesn't get enough love for my liking. I hope I managed to change some of your minds. As for me,I'm giving this case a 7.77/10. See y'all next time!

Next time,a case involving the return of the Gramaryes.

[previous ranking][hint box][next ranking]

Author:  Nerdowl [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Southern Corn wrote:
I think we can all agree that besides a few exceptions,the AAI series has never done cameos that well. Heck,even DD and SoJ haven't really either.

All of us? Hmm...

Southern Corn wrote:
But anyways,number 18! This one should also be....rather controversial. Hmm,but then again....anyway! Come on up,my friend!

I'm happy to see this one in the top 20... but I actually currently have this higher on my list.

I really must find where I put my 3DS charger cable so I can finish SoJ and join in with this thread properly and do my own rankings. (I'd do them now but I may as well have as complete a list as possible. (It won't have AAI2 due to no localisation and it won't have PWvsPL because of insane pricing but still...)

Author:  linkenski [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Before the bonus games and Takumi's departure from the main series: 10/10 for me.

After up to SoJ along with PLvPWAA: 7/10

The first 3 games takes it very high, AAI2 is kinda give or take as is PLvPWAA, but AAI, DD and SoJ are all kinda 6/10~ level and drag it down a lot. I should say AA2 is bad as well but I don't feel that. It was still pretty enjoyable despite being too samey and lacking a focused overarching narrative.

Author:  Nurio [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-18
This is a case I liked, but mostly for the mystery and the trials. I actually didn't like the investigations too much, nor the characters. It must be because I was still kind of heartbroken over the original Trilogy cast just having completely vanished. I was still just hoping for Maya or Edgeworth or Gumshoe to pop out at any time, but we didn't get any of that. The only thing we got was Phoenix talking about a "some friend sent me these DVDs" and that's only when you examine that stack of DVDs at a specific time.

Oh wait, we got Ema. But she's heartbroken herself, so that doesn't really help much...

Anyway, it also doesn't help that the new characters just don't do it for me. Most of them from a visual design standpoint. I touched upon this on the previous AJ case, but a lot of them just seem... deformed to a certain degree. Stickler with those really weird squinty eyes, Plum whose head is just one big mouth without much of a chin, Winfred whose eyebrows are 20 times larger than his eyes and seems solely designed around that uncanny resemblance and twist
Eldoon actually looks somewhat normal, aside from the bowl of noodles, of course, but that's not really a physical feature of his. I somewhat liked Eldoon, but I couldn't help but be confused, because mind that at the time I didn't really know about the localization differences, so to suddenly hear that Eldoon's noodles is Phoenix's favorite food joint was strange. "What happened to the burgers?"
Also, while playing the game, it really looked like the sprites were a mish-mash of styles and graphical fidelity. Some people looked sharper than others, and some just looked different from others.

This all sounds like minor stuff, or stuff that shouldn't impact the case itself... But just imagine my situation, having just played the trilogy, and coming to this... And it's so disorienting and overwhelming, I honestly didn't know what to feel and think anymore. The case itself sadly took a bit of a backseat because of this.

Now, as for the characters' personalities, I actually liked most of them. Except maybe Wocky and to an extent Alita. I personally would've just left Wocky there and wished him luck. And yeah, Alita was just... meek, I suppose is the right way to put it. Didn't make much of an impact at all. In fact, I don't remember her breakdown at all. I don't even remember the confrontation...

Uh... That's about all I remember. It all sounds negative, but I actually liked the case alright. While the whole disorientation messed with my experience, I still liked the case for what it is. ...I just don't really remember too much what the case was all about. Maybe too much happened in this case to keep track of it several years after the fact.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

@Nurio Neato. Not much to say,but that was actually my first playthrough of this case in a nutshell. I guess I just eventually adjusted to it after tons of replays.

@Nerdowl Oh really? I'm even more curious to see your ranking now,lol.

@linkenski Hmm,can't agree with you on everything I'm afraid. While I do agree that DD and AAI are the low point of the series,I don't exactly hate any cases,and I love AJ and even SoJ was super enjoyable. I will agree though that the first game and T&T are the best.

Author:  Thunder84 [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Well, I'm finally gonna do it. Can't keep putting it off. At least there's no final cases now until...8, I believe?

Spoiler: Investigations
17. Turnabout Ablaze


Now we're finally getting to the point where it's the cases that I absolutely love. Basically everything from here on out would be a 9/10 or higher. And what a better way to start it than with the final case of Investigations, where every single case from the case is tied up. There's a lot to go through here, and a lot of moving around, so I'll try to stay as organized as possible.

So everything starts out at the Steel Samurai stage show at the embassy of Babahl and Allebahst, and everyone is pretty chill. But the main event, the coming of the "Yatagarasu" is still coming. When it's finally seen, Kay runs off, the building is set on fire, and then Kay is accused of murder. Lovely. The victim is Manny Coachen, the same douchebag responsible for KG-8. Edgeworth investigates, and pretty soon it's apparent that Coachen was at least a part of the smuggling ring. Edgeworth tries to prove Kay innocent, but he ends up having to go to Allebahst to continue the investigation. And then, out of nowhere, Larry is the suspect of the other murder in Allebahst. Larry seems to be either loved or hated by people, and I'm one of the ones that loves him, so this is a great plus for me. The other victim is Mask DeMasque II, who really has no relevance to the case outside of being a plot device. And then...of all people to show up...WENDY OLDBAG. WHY. She has no business in this case, and she needs to leave like right now. So Edgeworth essentially proves Larry innocent and proves that the priceless Primidux statue was actually used to kill Ka Shi Nou. It also was Babahl's statue, as they had been switched. Then they head to Allebahst once again and prove that the "Yatagarasu" never even visited there, as it was all a hoax. And as if it wasn't complicated enough, Badd brings a picture of the Yatagarasu flying over the rose garden. So now there's like 50 different Yatagarasu sightings, Kay is still suspected of murder, no one knows who did the other murder, the statues were switched, and the smuggling ring is most likely a part of it. Oh boy. Edgeworth heads back to Coachen's office, and using Little Thief, he deduces that the killer must've used the fireplace to escape, putting suspicion on Shih-na. He confronts her, and eventually both the answers to the Yatagarasu Kay chased into the office and the true nature of the Yatagarasu are revealed. Shih-na was actually a spy, and the Yatagarasu was made up of her, Byrne Faraday, and Tyrell Badd. With nothing left to search for, Badd turns himself in, knowing that he finally caught Yew. Badd gives Edgeworth two crucial pieces of evidence that are used to take down the big bad at the end. Lang accuses von Karma of killing Nou as an excuse to investigate Alba's office one more time, and they finally get the conclusive evidence they need. The real nature of the flying Yatagarasu photo was actually the two statues being switched over a line connected between the two offices, and the reason for that being the counterfeit plates in the fake statue. Edgeworth uses his trump card, and the real battle against Alba begins. Or so it seems, as Alba uses his extraterrestrial rights to prevent them from investigating, and leaves to get everyone evicted. Edgeworth nonetheless proves that Coachen was killed in the Theater, and the murder had occurred on American ground. Alba still uses his diplomatic immunity to try and leave, but Lang then saves the day by getting Alba stripped of his title. Then things start to get really long, so I'm just gonna do a quick summary. Coachen was actually killed in the theater by Alba, and Coachen attacked Alba as well. His body was then placed in the pushcart and brought to Allebahst. Shih-na set the fire to drain the pools, brought Coachen over to the other side, and placed him in the office. Alba breaks down, he gets sent to trial, and happy ending for everyone.

The characters here are almost entirely made up of returning characters, as the only two new ones are Alba and Palaeno. Coachen is a great victim, but Ka-Shi Nou is just a blob of nothing. Palaeno is fantastic, and it's refreshing to have a character who is genuinely good and won't lie to you. Alba is a fine villain, but his final confrontation goes on WAY too long. Larry is great, and Oldbag is awful. Everyone else fills in their roles nicely, and both Badd's and Lang's development is fun to watch.

Well, it's finally over with. Turnabout Ablaze is a fantastic case with plenty of great twists, but the inclusion of Oldbag and the way too long final confrontation bring it down just a bit. Next up, two of the remaining 3rd cases left.

And for what cases remain:

AA: 1-4, 1-5
JFAL 2-4
T&T: 3-2, 3-5
AJ: 4-3
AAI: I-4
AAI2: I2-3, I2-4, I2-5
DD: 5-3, 5-4, 5-5, 5-S
SoJ: 6-2, 6-5, 6-S

Author:  Southern Corn [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

It's time for number 17! Yes,this is going to be a magical experience,so strap your seatbelts,folks!


Spoiler: all teh gaems
#17-The Magical Turnabout


And another SoJ case falls,but this time it's rather similar to AJ! What a neat coincidence,seeing as we've been doing a lot of AJ stuff recently. And I guess that's also why this high,since I have a professed love for that game. So let's get started!

Even the opening is sorta like AJ,the way it calmly and casually opens up before the murder takes place,with subtle foreshadowing intact. I was pumped for this one,because it was dealing with some Gramarye stuff with the mystery being reminiscent of 4-3. Trucy being the defendant was good and Ema being the detective also gave some nice flashbacks. And when it started up,I was eagerly anticipating everything. So let's talk about the story!

In terms of development for Trucy and Apollo,the story was excellent. The mob constantly harassing Trucy really invigorated my spirit to get her off,and adding the fact that the fate of the company was in my hands really upped the ante. Such lines like (paraphrased) 'Will you smile for me,Ms.Wright?' and 'Trucy's real smile is the best' sent chills down my spine,and the scene where she cried at the detention center tugged at my heartstrings. Apollo got some acknowledgement from Phoenix finally,and it was quite nice to see. Even secondary characters like Bonny and Betty had their own mini arc. So yeah,the story was incredible in that aspect.


What it wasn't incredible at,though,was the stuff about the Gramaryes. You could say,"But why?! This case was all about them!",but that's where you're wrong. The only member of the troupe really prominently focused upon was Mr.Reus,and he was the member they retconned in! It's rather illogical too,as you could retcon him in a non forceful way. Say that he was one of the people who auditioned to be in the troupe,but got hurt while performing and was rejected. This adds up with why he wasn't really talked about in AJ and removes the fact that he was a former member of the troupe,and even gives credence to Valant's line that only he and Zak were good enough to be taken in by Magnifi. So yeah,the inclusion of Mr. Reus (which is a great double pun) was really forced and inelegant.

Other than that,the original members of the troupe barely get a mention;if even that. Magnifi is the only one who gets mentioned in succession,but the stuff they added about him is nonsensical. Why did he have a notebook to write down his trade secrets when he already had a diary to do so,as seen in 4-4? Why is his creed the same thing as 'Lawyers should smile even in the bleakest of times' that Mia/Phoenix always says? Why does everyone say that he expelled Retinz due to him realizing his true nature when it was just because he was just being the unforgiving jerk that he was? It's all stupid and doesn't fit with his character. The others are even worse. Zak only gets a passing mention and Thalassa is indirectly mentioned by the flowers she sent as Lamiroir,while poor Valant doesn't even get called by name. So the Gramarye aspect of this case is definitely weak,and doesn't hold up against what we learnt of them in AJ.

The mystery though,is definitely like 4-3 in a lot of ways. The crime scene was very interesting, and some twists were definitely interesting (like the identity of Betty and Mr.Reus being Retinz). The way the crime was committed was very unique,and it was definitely a crime only a magician could commit. I like how the alibi didn't even matter in the end,too. The video tape only gets shown twice though,and I feel ripped off on that part. It was rather anticlimactic too, since this sort of thing doesn't happen afterwards. I did like how they brought back the 3D look at how the crime was commited a la 4-1 and 4-2. In terms of the obviousness of the culprit,I was definitely expecting it to be Retinz. Considering his suspicious actions,it only made sense that he did it.


The characters are well and good. I've talked about Trucy and Apollo (who,by the way,had some HILARIOUS lines this case) already,but I liked how Phoenix was giving support. Athena...was there,I guess. She was pretty much the same girl from 5-2 and 5-3. Nahyuta...I actually didn't mind him that much. He got on my nerves a bit,but he compensated by having some great lines (what's crack-a-lacking,homie?) and he felt fresh at the time. The stupid twist at the end was definitely forced,though. Especially since I felt that Klavier was a better Edgeworth for Apollo.

Ema comes back...but is terrible. She's herself in the investigation,with some quips which resemble those of her in AJ,but with a more positive outlook on life;but in the trial,she's so tiring. I was with Nahyuta that she would just do her dang job already. The de Fammes were wonderfully fun witnesses (basically a more comedic version of Dahlia and Iris),and I felt sorry for them at the end.


Retinz is a cool character overall,but I feel that he's lacking something. He has a good theme,and I liked his sleaziness,but like Redd White,I felt that he went down a bit too easily. He could've just admitted to tampering with the scene but pleaded innocent in terms of committing the crime,and would've gotten off scott free. His breakdown was gorgeous though.

The presentation is spectacular,and the anime cutscenes were actually bearable somewhat. The music is great (like Mr. Reus's theme and the generic character themes). The gameplay is good,though I'm disappointed they continued to relegate perceive to the investigation segments. But this time the investigations were fun,since you could examine everything again (oh my dear Charley,how I've missed you so). Except the fingerprinting section. That was horrible. The trials were nicely paced with good testimonies (Roger's were tough),and the Mood Matrix was fun. Plus,they brought back the large penalties again!

Interestingly,the pacing is rather unique. Unlike other second cases,this one has only one investigation and one trial. And you know actually makes sense in this case to do that! It's the perfect length for a second case,and I think the only one to successfully do so besides Turnabout Airlines. But there's a small problem. It's clear that they originally planned to have this go two days. And I can even see that in a way. Some areas you barely do anything in,like outside the theatre and the TV studio. Both the segments are way longer than normal,too. So this is sort of like a blessing and a curse at the same time,which is a darn pity.


And that's the Magical Turnabout! It's a very good case,combining both the best of AJ and DD to make it so great. The stuff with Mr. Reus and the Gramaryes was terrible though,and the pacing was a tad off. So I can only give it a 7.75/10. See you next time!

Hint for the next one:A Layton case....sort of.

[previous ranking][hint box][next ranking]

Author:  Nurio [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Spoiler: SC-17
I also really loved this case, but it's not without its flaws. I'll start with that.

I completely agree on retconning Mr. Reus into the Gramaryes was really strange, and your solution is something I could've accepted. I spent way too long in disbelief during this case, just wondering if the writers really just did that. "Did they really just retcon something this big into the canon?" And like you said, they broke a few things, like Magnifi's personality, in the process.

The scene with Trucy in the Detention Center was really nice, and it sure tugged at a heartstring or two for me. But, I feel like a lot of Yamazaki games suffer from this, when they got a good element (like a touching phrase), they sure drive it into the ground and overkill it. The amount of times I've read about lawyers always smiling and magicians always smiling is... just too much. Way too much. Just compare how often the lawyer smiling phrase is used in the Takumi games and in SoJ.
The thing with the repetition is that it ultimately fails to make the really special moments pack a punch. I remember the very end of 3-5 where Godot "cried" at the end and he mentions that attorneys only cry when it's all over. That was such a powerful moment and left a really strong impression. While not flashy or anything, it was the perfect "wow" moment. The music started playing at the right time, you realize it really is all over, you feel sorry for Godot. And that worked because Godot didn't talk about not crying every single opportunity he got!
And because of that, the Trucy scene wasn't as impactful as it could've been. It was still good and still memorable, but it lacked that exact "wow" factor that Godot's ending scene did have.

Lastly (for the negative things), they really weren't very subtle with the mystery of Mr. Reus's identity, were they? I mean, it's a guy whose identity we don't know, so of course it's something we'll uncover. We're not leaving a single stone unturned (actually, more on that later) and there really was only one possible candidate for who Mr. Reus really is. Sure enough, they could've convinced me that we're not going to look into Mr. Reus's identity if they didn't make it very very obvious Retinz has a huge grudge toward the Gamaryes. It even made me think he was just a red herring. "They wouldn't make it this obvious, would they? It has to be a trap..."
But nope!

Okay, the rest was really good about this case. The mystery, the contraditions, the characters. Ignoring the retcon, the overuse of phrases, and the obviousness of the killer, this case really had me invested, because there was some genuine pressure on Apollo (thanks to the Trucy scene and the fact their office was in jeopardy). And this case really had me scratching my head on what exactly happened and how the guy really got killed. The plot twist that he was just acting at first and wasn't killed until later (remotely, even!) was very delicious.

Retinz was a great guy to hate, both in his TV Ratings Raja personality and in his Mr. Reus personality. I genuinely wanted to punch him, and I didn't have that with a lot of characters. His Mr. Reus personality was also a magician done well. Suck on that, Max.
I also liked Bonny and Betty, with Bonny more than Betty. I dunno, I think it's the expressions on Betty that make me like her a bit less. They're a bit too overdone. Like, I get it, she's a bit... batty (Wow, did they actually do that on purpose for this pun?) but she looked entirely like a psychotic killer. Retinz's reactions to that psycho were also quite overdone, with the hearts in his eyes and him getting all... squirmy. But oh well. Minor complaint.
Also, kudos to Bonny/Betty's voice actress. I really liked her voice in the anime cutscene of the performance. Especially that little laugh. It had the perfect mixture of evilness and cuteness.
I also really liked how Bonny looked, and during the reveal, when Bonny was sitting on the defence's bench... I could swear she looked so familiar. I have seen a girl with a similar expression and similar pose before. This is a bit of a tangent that doesn't really have much to do with the review anymore, but it's really bugging me. I am getting such a déjà vu when looking at her sitting on the defence's bench. I know I saw something similar somewhere and I need to know where or else I just can't sleep.
It's been several months. I want to sleep...

One thing I also liked was the part where you had to compare the sword switching technique Trucy demonstrated with the broadcast footage. The actual gameplay there was alright, but what it made you do was really brilliant. It made you question Trucy. "Did she maybe really forget to switch the swords?" And then when you see the actual switch is missing in the footage, you get this sense of dread... "She did forget, didn't she...?"
I didn't question my own defendant like this since... 2-2, I think.

Trucy being the defendant and Ema the detective also gave some nice flashbacks.

Huh? Trucy has never been the defendant before, right? Am I misremembering?

Author:  Southern Corn [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

Glad to see we agree.

No,I was misworded that part. I'll go fix it now.

You go get some sleep.

Author:  Nurio [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

It's 4:30 PM =P

Author:  Southern Corn [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

If I was awake for three years,I wouldn't care what time it was. I'd just go to sleep.

But I'm really excited for tomorrow's case. It may seem obvious,but it'll bite you in the scrotum.

Author:  Nurio [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate/Review the entire franchise!

The... scrotum? Uhm, alright then. I keep forgetting to write down my guess for the next case, even though I do have it in my mind every time. Taking the hint on its own, you'd think it's the first PLvsAA case, but I think we already covered that one, and I also can't imagine that one being that high up...

Also, I still can't sleep as long as I don't know what that Bonny pose reminds me of...

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